Re: Community update 2009-10-28
Thanks! But I would say there are lot of news this time ;) thanks to all contributors. -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Christ van Willegen cvwille...@gmail.com wrote: Minh, On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Minh Ha Duong hadu...@centre-cired.fr wrote: 6. Tips and tricks * Howto get the wrench and QWERTY buttons in 2008.12 with the ASU theme. I followed the instructions, but misread the second step. It told me to 'put asu in /etc/enlightenment/default_profile'. So, I did 'mv asutab /etc/enlightenment/default_profile' and borked my default_profile file. Could anyone put this file either on the mailing list, or on the Wiki for me? Thanks in advance! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I have been very disappointed with the predictive input method. I have no trouble using the terminal virtual keyboard with a plastic stylus, the pointy top of a ball-point pen, or the point of a sharpened wooden lead pencil. Note: I do have a protective cover over the touch screen. I have been trying to figure out how to get the choice to use the terminal virtual keyboard to no avail. The instructions referred to above require a non-free (shareware) utility to extract a file (rar archive???). Surely the FreeRunner can be kept Free and Open. Note to Christ van Wilegen: my default_profile contains one line: E_PROFILE=-profile asu with a couple of line-feeds. I do hope we can have this choice. Cheerio! -- Fielder George Dowding, KL7FHX dba Iceworm Enterprises Debian GNU/Linux Lenny User Number 269482 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update
Try the links here - this list is from gentoo where its built from source, plus there are freeware packages (I looked at the unrar link) for most operating systems. * app-arch/rar Latest version available: 3.8.0 Latest version installed: 3.8.0 Size of downloaded files: 1,576 kB Homepage:http://www.rarsoft.com/ Description: RAR compressor/uncompressor License: RAR * app-arch/unrar Latest version available: 3.8.5 Latest version installed: 3.8.5 Size of downloaded files: 132 kB Homepage:http://www.rarlab.com/rar_add.htm Description: Uncompress rar files License: unRAR * app-arch/unrar-gpl Latest version available: 0.0.1_p20080417 Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ] Size of downloaded files: 135 kB Homepage:http://home.gna.org/unrar/ Description: Free rar unpacker License: GPL-2 On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 00:26 -0900, Fielder George Dowding wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Christ van Willegen cvwille...@gmail.com wrote: Minh, On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Minh Ha Duong hadu...@centre-cired.fr wrote: 6. Tips and tricks * Howto get the wrench and QWERTY buttons in 2008.12 with the ASU theme. I followed the instructions, but misread the second step. It told me to 'put asu in /etc/enlightenment/default_profile'. So, I did 'mv asutab /etc/enlightenment/default_profile' and borked my default_profile file. Could anyone put this file either on the mailing list, or on the Wiki for me? Thanks in advance! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I have been very disappointed with the predictive input method. I have no trouble using the terminal virtual keyboard with a plastic stylus, the pointy top of a ball-point pen, or the point of a sharpened wooden lead pencil. Note: I do have a protective cover over the touch screen. I have been trying to figure out how to get the choice to use the terminal virtual keyboard to no avail. The instructions referred to above require a non-free (shareware) utility to extract a file (rar archive???). Surely the FreeRunner can be kept Free and Open. Note to Christ van Wilegen: my default_profile contains one line: E_PROFILE=-profile asu with a couple of line-feeds. I do hope we can have this choice. Cheerio! -- William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Fielder George Dowding fgdowd...@gmail.com wrote: Apologies to Christ, that is two l's in Willegen. I hadn't noticed, no offence taken, and my phone now boots with ASU again. Thanks! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update
thanks for the update Minh! hadn't heard about Gwaterpas it's been added to opkg now btw On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Minh Ha Duong hadu...@centre-cired.fr wrote: Hi! This is the nineth Community Updates, January 12th issue. For the new year we interviewed Sean on everything that matters for the community: sales in 2008 were around the low five digits, om-locations is what remains of an ambitious mesh network project, and the most surprising development to him was the explosion of distributions. Back on the mailing lists, activity was rater slow during the first week of the year, but got more intense than ever after the holidays. Illume's keyboard received lots of localisations. Opkg.org reached a critical mass of packages. SHR and FSO are counting down toward their next milestone, while coding continues for kernel, drivers, Android and the like. It looks like the switch to 2.6.28 is going to happen soonish, before the switch to the Paroli phone stack. The newsletter is also available with links at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/January_12th%2C_2009 Contents * 1 Distributions * 2 New applications * 3 Ports and updates * 4 Community * 5 Hardware and drivers * 6 Tips and tricks 1. Distributions * SHR: According to Julien's latest on the SHR project blog, the baby is expected really soon now. * Marek announced the new organisation of package and images repositories. * Android: The latest compatible kernel has wifi and bluetooth working now. Suspend and reboot are still broken. * FSO MS5 should branch out for really soon now (the roadmap says release January 31st, but they want a longer stabilization period this time). It will be the first milestone that will have support not only for GTA01 and 02, but also for the Motorola EZX A780. meeting minutes. * Hackable:1 buildbot is up and running. Images are generated every morning around 4:00. Happy testing ! * User:Bytestore has updated assemblage 2008.12 from Russian community, work with gprs, headphone jack plug, ru keyboard and many other things were updated (download rootfs, see screenshots) 2. New applications * LED clock When an Openmoko is sitting unused at night, turn it into an alarm clock with large 7-segment digits on a black background in landscape mode. * GPRSsettings is a GUI script designed to change apn, login, dialnumber. * Samuel's script for a toggle wifi icon. * ylock 0.1 Python screen lock and low battery monits. * AppManager 1.0.1 Zenity package manager. * Mirko announced that pre-alpha Paroli was now packaged in testing. Development moved to their own domain: paroli-project hosts trac, git, blog and documentation. * Kurt's Gwaterpas allows to use the Freerunner as a leveling tool. * There are now 75 packages at opkg.org. Novelties include osmupdater (updates OSM maps directory), sortdesk (sorts the desk), MokoCard (flashcards learning aid), sms-sentry (query the unit's location by SMS, handy if it was just stolen), pyring (a key ring), EFpLayer (mplayer GUI), playstankontakarta (an icon displaying remaining credit with POLISH PLAY pre-paid phone provider), various illume keyboards and more. It was mentioned unofficially that Openmoko's community repository is going to be dismantled. 3. Ports and updates * Lots of Navit activity. Distributions are kindly suggested to package the sample map separately from the main binary to conserve space. * The opkg package manager development moved from OM svn to Google code. The recommended stable version is r172, there is a significant data structures+algorithm refactorization going on. * Version 2.4 of orrery is now available. It has a new schematic Solar System View page, showing the position of the planets and our moon in their orbits, a new moon calendar, and a less ugly icon. * The ZOMG! package manager is now available on opkg.org, and now allows to add/remove/edit repositories (i.e. feeds). * Angus updated BtGPS.py to work with FSO. With this script, the FreeRunner works as a bluetooth GPS. * Marco shared his success in compiling the latest E17 svn on 2008.12. There was trouble on SHR with the Elementary widget set, tough. 4. Community * Sean's new year interview * Rakshat Hooja's company IDA Systems will be at Mumbai's TechFest. There are gifts waiting for the first 10 FreeRunner owners to show up at their booth! * The Future of location services thread started as an attempt to clarify the GPS drivers tangle, and then turned to using GSM celltowers and wifi access points location information. Dima signalled that there are several free databases of GSM tower locations, and that his gta02 Perl script to query OpenCellID for the approximate tower location, and then initialize the AGPS with this data works great. There is a database of Wifi access points at wigle.net. * Two new mailing lists were
Re: Community update
Minh, On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Minh Ha Duong hadu...@centre-cired.fr wrote: 6. Tips and tricks * Howto get the wrench and QWERTY buttons in 2008.12 with the ASU theme. I followed the instructions, but misread the second step. It told me to 'put asu in /etc/enlightenment/default_profile'. So, I did 'mv asutab /etc/enlightenment/default_profile' and borked my default_profile file. Could anyone put this file either on the mailing list, or on the Wiki for me? Thanks in advance! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, october 3rd 2008
Thank you for this update. It is very nice to have a summary to get an idea about what new there is on OM World. Thank you Michele Renda 2008/10/6 Minh Ha Duong [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Contents * 1 Distributions * 2 Applications * 3 Hardware * 4 Wiki and community * 5 From the stars * 6 Outside Openmoko [edit] Distributions * The big affair was the release of Om2008.9 Update on September 19th, the dot one ASU. Or was it a big non-event, because those who updated daily were already ahead when it was released ? Some users were surprised that the stable feeds do not update almoshttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Updatest everything everyday anymore, but this is what stable is supposed to mean. You don't get the nice fixes in the latest kernel, but you don't get the nasty new bugs either. * Another big point release: Qtopia 4.4. It's now called Qt Extended, we will need to update that string on about ~100 wiki pages! * FSO repositories moved to http://downloads.freesmartphone.org. Thanks Beartech for the interim hosting. * A startup announced NeoPwn, a distribution geared towards penetration testing. I am not sure if they are shipping yet. Their hat color is unclear to me, their slogan is Own it.. before it owns you. * FDOM is really gearing up. They now have a mailing list, a code repository, and a mission. [edit] Applications * Sephora, settings manager in PyGtk for XFCE started. * Also, openmoko-panel-plugin went from 0.1 to 0.4. It is a gtk based plugin that draws the powerstate of some FR hardware devices(i.e. gsm, gps) to a gtk based panel. Theses panels are used i.e. in xfce4. so you can enable or disable the state of your gps receiver. * Brian Code from Koolu documented how he made Linphone, that is voice over IP, work fine for him. * A screen Rotate daemon was developed successfully. [edit] Hardware * Battery#DIY external battery pack from a Minty case, or how to run the Neo from batteries (NB: a pair of AA cells will not provide as much as 1 amp of current.) * Thanks to Claus and Lothar, the CAD files are now available in other formats (BRLCAD, IGES, STEP) * Michael negociated with a custom-case making company, they could build something more rugged/waterproof if the demand was high enough. [edit] Wiki and community * The Documentation Team recategorized everything using a two-levels scheme. Browsing should be is easier now, try it! Of course we now need to clean up the pages inside each subcategory, but at least the big POS is not many small pos. Divide-and-conquer. * We also organized the list of applications. Now there is a master directory, then detailed lists by topic, and then application pages. * Coming soon: Use google search, Add page in this category, Site directory extensions. * Some nice artwork flew by on the community list. Raster is still with us. Following some advertisement, the Desktop wallpaper gallery grew from 1 to 4 images. Keep them coming ! * We are having a defining hearts-to-hearts discussion on the community list in Risto's initiated thread The Lost Openmoko community. See also the Weeky Engineering News 38 for Om's plans to involve the community more in the release process. * Good things are the pipeline for the Community Repository, including a submit by web interface (tickets 1518, 1543) [edit] From the stars * There were many kernel patches about SD cards and bus speed. Confusion about which kernel version goes into which branch and about packaging strategies led to some module mismatch issues. * There are still interesting discussions on the kernel mailing list on the state of the wlan driver. For the rest of us, it means that the Wifi driver is still being actively developed. In plain English: likely to be full of bugs. * The alsa sound configuration still puzzle most users. I think that as long as alsa-mixer is based on a linear list of cryptic acronyms, we are in the dark. Internship idea: redo the mixer as a clickable image map based on the sound chip circuits. Make that work for all Linux distros. * Developers should be aware that the Meta-toolchain was refreshed. * The kernel guys have banged their heads together about how to send all their changes upstream. Conclusion: good luck, that is a tough job. [edit] Outside Openmoko * The leading websearch company released their mobile OS called Android, nothing was said about an Openmoko port. * Pandora pre-sells thousands of their handheld linux gaming console. Sorry if you missed it, the next batch will be for 2009. == Thanks to all those who are helping to improve the wiki. As for the last issue, this page can be fixed at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/October_3rd%2C_2008 And interesting events can be posted real-time at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Updates Yours, Minh
Re: Community update, october 3rd 2008
Minh Ha Duong wrote: * Another big point release: Qtopia 4.4. It's now called Qt Extended, we will need to update that string on about ~100 wiki pages! Qt Extended only refers to versions 4.4.1 and above. Any reference to Qtopia 4.3.x should remain the same. :) -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
Justyn Butler wrote: 2008/4/29 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... Michael Shiloh is the community manager - he keeps the community updated so the devs don't have to take time off from developing to do it. Unfortunately I still depend on the devs telling me what they are up to, which I find is pretty hard these days, as they are all so busy. Steve has a slightly easier time getting the info from the factory guys, which is why he has been doing the updates lately. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
2008/4/29 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... Michael Shiloh is the community manager - he keeps the community updated so the devs don't have to take time off from developing to do it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
Andreas Hennig wrote: since the last official community update was a few week ago Months? :o :| Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... BTW I'd like to read some twitter-form status-mails from them :) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
Whi not have an official openmoko twitter stream? On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Hennig wrote: since the last official community update was a few week ago Months? :o :| Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... BTW I'd like to read some twitter-form status-mails from them :) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Do not forget shipping costs and problems with repair etc. If you have to keep sending devices back and forth to foreign EU countries. AFAIK, these are much more expensive than in the US. CU W On Monday 25 February 2008 22:48:08 David Pottage wrote: On Monday 25 February 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote: Ivo Anjo wrote: 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. Does this mean that it will be possible to purchase openmoko from inside the EU, so there are no random customs taxes? That would be great! Hi Ivo, That is certainly our intention, which is why we have been trying to set up distributors in as many places as possible. The only one I know of so far is in Germany. Since that's in the EU, that should work for you, right? It would work, but the rate of sales tax is fairly high in Germany. Under EU rules, Europeans can buy stuff from anywhere in the EU, and pay the sales tax rate prevalent in the country where the shop operates instead of the rate in their home country. If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Having said that, it is not a huge cost, and having a web shop any where in Europe is a great improvement over importing from the Far East. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Marc Verwerft schrieb: Well, I live in Belgium and I can assure you that sales tax here is 21 % as opposed to Germany's 16 % ... It is 19% in Germany since 2007 ;( A lot of people are just crossing the border to Aachen/Koln to find 'cheaper' computer hardware (pc, pda, phone, digital camera's, ...) If all works out well you will be able to buy the devices from germany then, either from us or others who offer them. If you have a valid European VAT ID you can even buy without VAT. Is there any other sales tax you are referring to then? Well, there is of course customs that will add on the sales price - the customs due from Taiwan into the EU of course, there is none within the EU. The only major issue I still have is EAR (German term but also valid for other European countries as far as I know), i.e. the electronic waste regulation. For Germany it means that I as a reseller have to register (which is expensive!) at a piblic service center, tell them how many kilograms of electronic waste I am going to bring into public circulation (i.e. sell) and will then have to pay the waste dump cost for this. Since the Neo is not that heavy it should not be that much but the whole process is redicously complicated (and you have to deposit the expected cost at the *beginning* of the year!). This process is valid for all electronic devices you see nowadays with the crossed out dust-bin symbol on them. So this will also add to the sales price. Regards, Marc Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Tilman Baumann schrieb: Marc Verwerft wrote: Well, I live in Belgium and I can assure you that sales tax here is 21 % as opposed to Germany's 16 % ... 16% Not anymore... :( But as afar as i know, you can sell inside the EU to other EU countries and tax where they buyer lives. Don't ask me how, but i think there is something like that. That is not that easy. The other party has to have a valid EU VAT ID which usually only businesses have. If you sell to private people without VAT you will get into trouble with your own VAT declaration. This was once possible before the EU VAT ID was implemented but also caused a lot of trouble - since it reqiured that the customers then has to VAT tax it in his country afterwards. What is usually done for private customers is that the invoice will state that the place of change of ownership (formal: place of change of risk) is the originating country. Everything after that is the responsibility of the customer. Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Hi Duvelle, We should shortly have a list of worldwide distributors on our website, along with instructions for how to apply to become one. Michael Duvelle Jones wrote: I am a little curious to the channels that you do have access to. Being in canada, I am also curious as to if you plan to distribute the FreeRunner in Canada. On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 10:56 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, A number of times you have asked about pre-orders. Here is the official word from our VP of Marketing: Over the next couple of months you will see the following 3 announcements: 1. When the production hardware is solid and signed off, we will announce pricing and availability. That is, we will announce the expected price and the expected date on which the web store will open. 2. When the first production run is complete, we will announce that. 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. We are actively looking at pre-orders, but as discussed in the past there are a number of very difficult complications in taking pre-orders. We think the best solution is to build 10 times as many phones as we did the last time, so that pre-orders will not be necessary. As many of you know, ramping up a factory for production is not instantaneous. We plan to do a number of pre-production runs to iron out manufacturing issues and to assure high yield. These pre-production runs will occur before the official production run, so that when we make announcements 2 and 3 above we will be highly confident in our ability to manufacture and deliver a very large number of handsets. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:08:26 + (UTC) Tony SR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:14:11 +0100, Richard Bennett richard.bennett at skynet.be wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:48:08 +0100, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Don't you mean Luxemburg? They have 15% tax I think, in Belgium it is 21%. Luxembourg could be great :) or spain too... but please ! not in sueden or denmark :) (25% !) Anyone here who lives in Lux ? :) Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hello everyone, In Spain we have 16% VAT... (and I thought we had a huge VAT, but by the comments, we're so cheap!) Regards Tony ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Here in the UK seems cheap at 17.5%, but I suppose you hit currency issues here? -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. Does this mean that it will be possible to purchase openmoko from inside the EU, so there are no random customs taxes? That would be great! Ivo Anjo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Ivo Anjo wrote: 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. Does this mean that it will be possible to purchase openmoko from inside the EU, so there are no random customs taxes? That would be great! Hi Ivo, That is certainly our intention, which is why we have been trying to set up distributors in as many places as possible. The only one I know of so far is in Germany. Since that's in the EU, that should work for you, right? Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Hi Ivo, That is certainly our intention, which is why we have been trying to set up distributors in as many places as possible. The only one I know of so far is in Germany. Since that's in the EU, that should work for you, right? Yeah, there are no extra taxes on trades inside the EU, and since Germany belongs to the EU, it should work great. Looking forward to it :) Ivo Anjo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Monday 25 February 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote: Ivo Anjo wrote: 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. Does this mean that it will be possible to purchase openmoko from inside the EU, so there are no random customs taxes? That would be great! Hi Ivo, That is certainly our intention, which is why we have been trying to set up distributors in as many places as possible. The only one I know of so far is in Germany. Since that's in the EU, that should work for you, right? It would work, but the rate of sales tax is fairly high in Germany. Under EU rules, Europeans can buy stuff from anywhere in the EU, and pay the sales tax rate prevalent in the country where the shop operates instead of the rate in their home country. If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Having said that, it is not a huge cost, and having a web shop any where in Europe is a great improvement over importing from the Far East. -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:48:08 +0100, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Don't you mean Luxemburg? They have 15% tax I think, in Belgium it is 21%. Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Mo, 2008-02-25 at 23:06 +0100, Marc Verwerft wrote: Well, I live in Belgium and I can assure you that sales tax here is 21 % as opposed to Germany's 16 % ... Just to kill your illusion - it is 19 % in germany since the beginning of 2007... ;-) Regards, Ricky. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Marc Verwerft wrote: Well, I live in Belgium and I can assure you that sales tax here is 21 % as opposed to Germany's 16 % ... 16% Not anymore... :( But as afar as i know, you can sell inside the EU to other EU countries and tax where they buyer lives. Don't ask me how, but i think there is something like that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:14:11 +0100, Richard Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:48:08 +0100, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Don't you mean Luxemburg? They have 15% tax I think, in Belgium it is 21%. Luxembourg could be great :) or spain too... but please ! not in sueden or denmark :) (25% !) Anyone here who lives in Lux ? :) Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:14:11 +0100, Richard Bennett richard.bennett at skynet.be wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:48:08 +0100, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. Don't you mean Luxemburg? They have 15% tax I think, in Belgium it is 21%. Luxembourg could be great :) or spain too... but please ! not in sueden or denmark :) (25% !) Anyone here who lives in Lux ? :) Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hello everyone, In Spain we have 16% VAT... (and I thought we had a huge VAT, but by the comments, we're so cheap!) Regards Tony ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
David Pottage ha scritto: If FIC setup a web shop in a European country with a low sales tax rate such as Belgum, Europeans buying Freerunner phones could save around 10% compared with buying from a German web shop. In Italy it's 20%, not the best, but reading I discover that it isn't neither the wrost! :) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
I am a little curious to the channels that you do have access to. Being in canada, I am also curious as to if you plan to distribute the FreeRunner in Canada. On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 10:56 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, A number of times you have asked about pre-orders. Here is the official word from our VP of Marketing: Over the next couple of months you will see the following 3 announcements: 1. When the production hardware is solid and signed off, we will announce pricing and availability. That is, we will announce the expected price and the expected date on which the web store will open. 2. When the first production run is complete, we will announce that. 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we will open the web store and begin taking orders. We are actively looking at pre-orders, but as discussed in the past there are a number of very difficult complications in taking pre-orders. We think the best solution is to build 10 times as many phones as we did the last time, so that pre-orders will not be necessary. As many of you know, ramping up a factory for production is not instantaneous. We plan to do a number of pre-production runs to iron out manufacturing issues and to assure high yield. These pre-production runs will occur before the official production run, so that when we make announcements 2 and 3 above we will be highly confident in our ability to manufacture and deliver a very large number of handsets. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Duvelle Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a little curious to the channels that you do have access to. Being in canada, I am also curious as to if you plan to distribute the FreeRunner in Canada. +1 for Canada! We can order from the USA and the shipping costs are usually not too large, but we end up paying a lot on insurance and broker/custom fees. It's a little better now that the Canadian dollar is pretty much on par with the US dollar but still.. Having a distributor in Canada would be very nice! thanks Antoine -- Antoine Reid ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: Regarding Neo FreeRunner pre-orders
On Monday 25 February 2008 23:48:14 Tilman Baumann wrote: Well, I live in Belgium and I can assure you that sales tax here is 21 % as opposed to Germany's 16 % ... 16% Not anymore... :( But as afar as i know, you can sell inside the EU to other EU countries and tax where they buyer lives. If I'm not totally mistaken, inside the EU sales to private consumers are taxed at the tax-rate of the seller's location. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 12:21 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 I couldn't help noticing that the takezero.net post reads like it was produced using Markov Chains. Forgive my naivete if this is an inside joke of some kind. I was surprised to see at least one expletive in the post. Perhaps it's a case of digital graffiti? Ken Smith http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE I've added a link to these at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events. If anyone finds more, please add them here. Michael Lon Lentz wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hello, On Jan 12, 2008 7:42 AM, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed... plus how often does a consumer ready phone get rebooted? last time I did mine was to swap the sim card into my neo In my experience it is like this: Nokia phones needs to be rebooted every week. This has been true for all Nokia phones I have used, and is also true for the Nokia E61 I'm currently using. If not rebooted, some functions of the phone will fail. For the E61, it suddenly starts to say disk full when I try to sync email onto it. After a reboot it is fine again. I have only used a few Sony-Ericsson phones, but they tend to only need reboot every two weeks. My latest experience was the K710, it did all sorts of funny things if it was not rebooted. Like - the alarm didn't work, - outgoing calls failed, - ringing didn't work and so on. IMO, rebooting a phone shouldn't be necessary during normal use. I am hoping that any phone running OpenMoko will be much, much better in this area.. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Saturday 12 January 2008 07:26:18 Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! imo its a much better feature then looking at a boot graphic that never stops looping and wonder why it does not... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Friday 11 January 2008 23:20:51 Lon Lentz wrote: I would recommend everyone go read Wired's article on the story of the iPhone development. Read about how well their prototype did. Hint: The iPhone didn't magically appear as a finished project out of thin air by shear will power. The power of Marketing is strong, but not that strong. while a interesting read, i get a feel that apple is just uncle jobs and some faceless engineers doing the dirty work after he have done all the planing... hoovers g-men anyone? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008 3:12 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: imo its a much better feature then looking at a boot graphic that never stops looping and wonder why it does not... For sure, but it seem importqnt to be able to hide the boot scroll for mass market. Not all people are open to the beauty of a boot scrolling :) -- Zitune GNU/Linux is user-friendly. It's just very selective about who its friends are. http://www.april.org/ 010 001 111 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! Yeah, we left that in on purpose -- especially for the geeks. Of course, it's scheduled for removal in a consumer-only release (whenever that may come) release. Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Regards, :M: -- Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hello, On Jan 12, 2008 5:34 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, we left that in on purpose -- especially for the geeks. Of course, it's scheduled for removal in a consumer-only release (whenever that may come) release. Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Easy to fix - leave it (boot scroll) as an option that can be turned on by the user, preferably in a geeky way involving shell and the virtual keyboard. :-) And we want the matrix screensaver too. :-) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: And we want the matrix screensaver too. :-) And it can't run down the batteries... :') ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Sure you can - put a switch in the phone's advanced preferences! :') Anyway, I have always felt that with a little dress-up, the verbose startup could become reassuring rather than alarming. The reason it's alarming is mostly that it just sits there saying nothing intelligible to the end-user. If it said things like probing for Atheros ethernet device... found. or configuring network... then the end user might be less alarmed. If you don't know any better though I think it looks too much like a Windows crash, to which old- timers are too painfully accustomed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Am 10.01.2008 um 22:20 schrieb Michael Shiloh: We're still testing the hardware and gathering up little issues before determining whether we need to create another version of the board. We still expect to start shipping Neo FreeRunner sometime in the next few months. As always, we can't be more specific, because we're not sure. That's all for now. As always, I welcome your feedback, questions, comments, and concerns. Michael, many thanks for this update. One nitpicking question is about interpreting the word next few months: does it mean something between 3 and 7 months from now? I.e. April to July? Or does it mean a version shipping with final software to end-users but developers can get it earlier? And, if it is the developer device that comes in the next few months - how long is the GTA01 device still available (despite all its known problems), since some projects can't wait and need a development and test platform and prototype/demonstrator units... Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
Joseph Reeves wrote: Hi Michael, Hi Joseph, Going back to your previous email first: Fortunately we have a watchful community to catch our mistakes as quickly as possible! Please continue to let me know if we make such mistakes in the future. Please understand that I wasn't trying to suggest any mistakes had been made, No worries. I didn't think you had, but I did use the opportunity that you brought it up to explain our policy. I was just after a little clarification. Really I was hoping that you'd give us some secret extra details ;-) Nice try! Your goal of keeping the project running on non region/religion/cultural time lines is a laudable one, but I'm so eagerly looking forward to the FreeRunner release that I wanted to know more! We appreciate your enthusiasm. My employer is looking to eventually purchase a couple of hundred FreeRunners, and we're all itching to buy a smaller batch for test purposes. We're not so interested in all the features, and aren't worried if we're not going to be buying a consumer ready phone platform; we want to build a tool, and the FreeRunner looks like the best base for it. Sounds like a perfect match. We look forward to seeing what you build. Having said that, I need to write a paper for an upcoming conference during which I'll be making just that point. All the best, Joseph Best wishes, Michael On 10/01/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Joseph, If we knew the date with 100% certainty I would certainly share it with you. As we have seen there is no standard meaning to the word quarter either. I'll go back to months. That's still somewhat Western-centric but perhaps sufficiently accepted that it should not cause trouble. Michael Joseph Reeves wrote: Talk of quarters might be more helpful (and standard within the business world), but a date would be even better! Joseph (waiting with anticipation) On 10/01/2008, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's an excellent description because they don't want to be specific! Push it more and I could see them just saying It'll be out in 2008. -Steven On Jan 9, 2008 6:51 PM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Bailes wrote: FreeRunner is due for release at the end of Spring, but which Spring is this? East Asia? US? Europe? I have to say, spring is a bad description of when FreeRunner will be released, though from my knowledge East Asia, the US and Europe all have spring at the same time +- 24 hours. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be spring in the southern hemisphere since that's still ten and a half months away. Amen. Using seasons for describing milestones (a common US behaviour) or even worse using holidays (e.g. we'll release that by Thanksgiving), is always the *wrong* thing to do. -- Rod (who is south of the equator, and also on a half-hour timezone) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Jay, Thanks for your enthusiasm. Jay Vaughan wrote: We're still testing the hardware and gathering up little issues before determining whether we need to create another version of the board. We still expect to start shipping Neo FreeRunner sometime in the next few months. As always, we can't be more specific, because we're not sure. As a GTA01 early-adopter and avid hacker on the platform, I simply can't wait for the GTA02 to be available. My apps are raring to go on a completed phone. So is there going to be any chance that you guys might set up an early-adopter list, upon which we avid fanboix can place ourselves, that will mean we get the phones as soon as they are shipping? I'd be willing to place a pre-order, even, for 2 of them. We've discussed this, but have not been able to figure out a way to do this. For instance, it is illegal to take money before things are ready to ship. There are other complications. You would not believe how difficult it is to set up a web store for a company in Taiwan to sell things around the world that ship from the USA. Ask roh how much fun he's having setting up the web store. I'm that much of a neo1973 gimp .. and once I've got those 2, I'd be happy to get a box of 10 shipped my way for all my users, too. For quantities of 10 or more you should talk to Steve ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Michael I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. ah yes, 3d! It'll be nice to have 3d renderings using something like google earth ;) -- Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Friday 11 January 2008 21:21:41 Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered- freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE So can we please get that all black Neo? Looks a lot nicer than the black/silver :P signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On 1/11/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 2:17 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Yeah it didn't make a good impression to show the boot messages, and a buggy crashing version of the UI. It really doesn't make sense, in that the rest of us are getting better results with the software releases. Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. I would hope there is a sexier follow-on product with even more features. But I imagine there will be increasing amounts of competition too. It's just that at this time, there is no other readily-available Linux phone which has a touchscreen, 640x480 resolution, and GPS. Those are the features which got me interested. (Besides being fully open, of course.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Unfortunately, opengl drivers for the SMedia chip will unlikely be ready by the release of FreeRunner. Only XRender extension is implemented by now. Also, GoogleEarth is closed-source and therefore can not be recompiled for ARM. P.S. Does anyone know whether we'll see accelerated XVideo extension in the near future? 2008/1/12, Brad Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michael I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. ah yes, 3d! It'll be nice to have 3d renderings using something like google earth ;) -- Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE I've added a link to these at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events. If anyone finds more, please add them here. Michael Lon Lentz wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Brad, I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. Fixed GSM firmware is not new because that's already included in GTA01 units (those that shipped after we got the fixed firmware). Anyway, fixing bugs doesn't count as new :-) Michael Brad Midgley wrote: I was able to make out what's new and two things that are new and nothing after that. We can probably guess he meant wifi and maybe fixed gsm firmware. On Jan 11, 2008 8:45 AM, andy selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Thanks, Michael. That was what I was looking for. Geek tech sites covering you guys at the show. I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I would recommend everyone go read Wired's article on the story of the iPhone development. Read about how well their prototype did. Hint: The iPhone didn't magically appear as a finished project out of thin air by shear will power. The power of Marketing is strong, but not that strong. On Jan 11, 2008 4:17 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/11/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 11:26 PM, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! agreed... plus how often does a consumer ready phone get rebooted? last time I did mine was to swap the sim card into my neo -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Shiloh wrote: Neo FreeRunner press release and the CPU speed -- The Neo FreeRunner press release that went out last week indicated a 500MHz CPU which, as many of you pointed out, is in conflict with the 400MHz stated on the wiki. I researched this among the experts and I think I have gotten to the bottom of it: There were also mentions of separate 850MHz and 900MHz versions of the phone in the Press Release. Is that a definite for release? or even a definite at all yet? - --Bert -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhpucVfxFjPpfJ3oRAqm3AJ97YFMeaR8CUff+96nbACt89lOLywCfZghH ZaMdeXMFbTBo44fOqh4ntjo= =NLpJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
I would assume the difference to be fiscal vs calendar year. My workplace uses Oct 1st to the start of their fiscal year, with project funding and reseting of vacation time being based around this. For other things we refer to particular quarters of the calendar year. I think expressing things as quarters is acceptable and obvious as long as it was stated as 2nd quarter - calendar year or something similar. I don't care whether months or quarters are used, but think either would be valid to use as the core team sees fit. -J Heilpern, Mark wrote: The difference between fiscal year and calendar year, I suppose? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven ** Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:09 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Community update, January 2, 2008 At my employer, 1st quarter starts October 1st. See what I mean about no standard? -Steven On Jan 10, 2008 10:48 AM, Sébastien Lorquet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For me, one year is 12 months so one quarter is 3 months, and then: 1st day of 1st quarter = january 1 1st day of 2nd quarter = april 1 and so on... Don't tell us you will release gta02 for the second quarter of 2008 :) Sebastien ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Ian, ian douglas wrote: Although it would be nice to take advantage of this faster processor, 3 problems make this impractical Michael, If I'm reading your message correctly, the GTA02 will indeed have a 500MHz processor, but will not be running at 500MHz because of the three problems you outlined, is that correct? That is correct. We are installing a CPU that is rated for a maximum speed of 500MHz, but clocking it at 400MHz. This is fairly common in the hardware world as availability of certain chips changes. For example, a manufacturer might find they can make the faster chips for the same price as the slower, and it costs them more to stock the two speeds, so they produce only the faster. Another reason might be that the volume of sales of the 400MHz part was so low that it wasn't worth manufacturing. Does this mean you will be slowing the CPU to 400MHz, or some other speed, or will you only know the answer once more testing has been done? I'm not sure the expression slowing the cpu is accurate. The CPU is rated for a maximum clock frequency of 500MHz, but it can be used at other speeds as well. If you are asking whether we intend to increase the clock speed at a later time, the answer is it's possible, but it's not planned. Since the rest of the circuit is designed for 400MHz it would take some serious analysis and testing to convince ourselves that it works reliably at 500MHz. A big part of hardware design consists of making sure that all signals, taking into account worst-case propagation delays and rise and fall times, will arrive at their destinations early enough to meet the setup times of the destination. This analysis is done at the intended CPU clocking frequency, which in our case was 400MHz. There is no expectation that these conditions will be met when the CPU is clocked at 500MHz - rather, every single signal in the circuit must be analyzed at this higher frequency. This is a tremendous amount of work, and is properly prioritized below getting GTA02 into manufacturing. Your description of problem 2 makes it sound like memory access will be slower, at 83MHz, if running the CPU at full speed because of the memory bus speed, instead of the anticipated 100MHz, is that correct? I can't answer for sure because I didn't work this out myself - rather I asked someone else. I can only presume that dividing by 5 was not an option. I'll find out. This frequency pre-scaler is not part of our circuitry; rather, it's built-in to the system-on-a-chip (SoC). Typically, those system provide pre-scalers, and typically those pre-scalers provide a limited range of fixed numbers for dividing the incoming frequency. So just because 4 and 6 were available divisors does not indicate that 5 is available as well. Does anyone there anticipate that this 17% decrease in memory access speed will be noticeable to the end user? What's the memory access speed on the GTA01? There is no decrease in memory speed - the system was designed to run with a CPU clock of 400MHz, and the memory at 100MHz, and that's what it will do. Thanks, Ian Thanks, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
Hello everyone, I'm going to ask possibly a simple question, but one that's quite important to me and the company I work for. FreeRunner is due for release at the end of Spring, but which Spring is this? East Asia? US? Europe? I'm in the UK and greatly looking forward to the FreeRunner, but we're not even into the worst of Winter yet. Thanks, Joseph On 03/01/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, Next week at CES we will formally preview GTA02 to the public. We are doing this at an invitation-only media event, and not the general show floor. To coincide with this we are sending out a press release tomorrow morning. The bulk of the press release discusses the hardware features of GTA02, of which you are all well aware. I would like to let you know of two new items: 1. GTA02 is given a name: FreeRunner 2. We think that FreeRunner will be available in spring. This is based on our estimation of what remains to be done with regards to hardware testing and software test. We will be showing a prototype of GTA02 hardware, aimed at software developers. It is not consumer-ready software. To quote the press release: The FreeRunner will be previewed at CES and ship later this spring-- first to developers and then to end users as software for the new hardware features becomes available. Other minor updates: We still have not received the signed agreement from TI allowing you to upgrade your own GSM firmware, so those of you who need the new firmware in order to use your SIM card should allow me to do it for you. Contact me off-list for my shipping address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help us close bugs? We have made a massive attempt to sort the bugs in Bugzilla. A host of bugs that need work are owned by me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and community participation on these is particularly welcome. Some need to be fixed, some need to be confirmed fixed or not reproducible, and others need a decision as to whether they are worth fixing or not. Take a look at these bugs and let me know if any speak to you. That's all for now. If any of you will be at CES drop me a line and we'll see if we can connect. We have a pretty busy schedule but I will especially try to make time to see OpenMoko community members. Best wishes, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
Hello Joseph, The spring we're talking about is spring in North America, but please note that this is an estimate, not a guarantee, and please note that the software will not be consumer ready. Michael Joseph Reeves wrote: Hello everyone, I'm going to ask possibly a simple question, but one that's quite important to me and the company I work for. FreeRunner is due for release at the end of Spring, but which Spring is this? East Asia? US? Europe? I'm in the UK and greatly looking forward to the FreeRunner, but we're not even into the worst of Winter yet. Thanks, Joseph On 03/01/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, Next week at CES we will formally preview GTA02 to the public. We are doing this at an invitation-only media event, and not the general show floor. To coincide with this we are sending out a press release tomorrow morning. The bulk of the press release discusses the hardware features of GTA02, of which you are all well aware. I would like to let you know of two new items: 1. GTA02 is given a name: FreeRunner 2. We think that FreeRunner will be available in spring. This is based on our estimation of what remains to be done with regards to hardware testing and software test. We will be showing a prototype of GTA02 hardware, aimed at software developers. It is not consumer-ready software. To quote the press release: The FreeRunner will be previewed at CES and ship later this spring-- first to developers and then to end users as software for the new hardware features becomes available. Other minor updates: We still have not received the signed agreement from TI allowing you to upgrade your own GSM firmware, so those of you who need the new firmware in order to use your SIM card should allow me to do it for you. Contact me off-list for my shipping address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to help us close bugs? We have made a massive attempt to sort the bugs in Bugzilla. A host of bugs that need work are owned by me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and community participation on these is particularly welcome. Some need to be fixed, some need to be confirmed fixed or not reproducible, and others need a decision as to whether they are worth fixing or not. Take a look at these bugs and let me know if any speak to you. That's all for now. If any of you will be at CES drop me a line and we'll see if we can connect. We have a pretty busy schedule but I will especially try to make time to see OpenMoko community members. Best wishes, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 09:35 -0500, Adam King wrote: Hi Michael: As I mentioned in a previous email to you, I'm in a 850Mhz _only_ area - so I can test the handset for you - though I am in Canada. Provider is Rogers and the area is Ottawa. Also, would there be any possibility of releasing the changes made to the GTA01 to make it 850Mhz compatible? Or maybe a service to send in our GTA01 to have the modifications made (for a reasonable price)? Hey, what area of town do you live in? I have a 1900-only phone (afaik) and it gets reasonable coverage. Thanks, Adam King -- Regards, Andrew Clunis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
FreeRunner is due for release at the end of Spring, but which Spring is this? East Asia? US? Europe? I have to say, spring is a bad description of when FreeRunner will be released, though from my knowledge East Asia, the US and Europe all have spring at the same time +- 24 hours. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be spring in the southern hemisphere since that's still ten and a half months away. Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
Jeff Bailes wrote: FreeRunner is due for release at the end of Spring, but which Spring is this? East Asia? US? Europe? I have to say, spring is a bad description of when FreeRunner will be released, though from my knowledge East Asia, the US and Europe all have spring at the same time +- 24 hours. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be spring in the southern hemisphere since that's still ten and a half months away. Amen. Using seasons for describing milestones (a common US behaviour) or even worse using holidays (e.g. we'll release that by Thanksgiving), is always the *wrong* thing to do. -- Rod (who is south of the equator, and also on a half-hour timezone) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
Thank you for the update. When do you expect to have results from the 850-MHz GTA01 testing? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
On Thursday 03 January 2008 05:51:06 Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello everyone, Next week at CES we will formally preview GTA02 to the public. We are doing this at an invitation-only media event, and not the general show floor. Any chance to see a video of that event? Maybe even in decent (i.e. better than Youtube :) quality? Great news in any case! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, January 2, 2008
The bulk of the press release discusses the hardware features of GTA02, of which you are all well aware. Actually I do have one question coming from the press release -- it says: FreeRunner will come in two versions: a 850MHz tri-band and a 900Mhz tri-band. Does this mean that OpenMoko has officially committed to a US 850MHz version of GTA02? Will this version ship at the same time as the 900MHz version? Thanks, Roland ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, GTA02v5 status?
Thanks for the updates, Michael. Any update on how the GTA02v5 evaluation is proceeding? /Erland ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:42:53 -0700, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as there's the Equifax security certificate it'll support our network. It would also be a huge move for cell phone wifi as it would be the only phone that works with our network. Richard And the whole freephonie network in France which is a wifi network for SIP phoning over PEAP autentication. This is a huge wifi nework which provide free national phoning through wifi from freebox set top boxes. Juste to give you an idea, here is an example of the network on one part of the Brest City (France). It's between 10 and 20% of all the SSID :) http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1812/freephonie3cp5.png (picture obtained with kismet, gps, and pushing all coords in kml, oh and many many car driving time :)) It represents like 1,5 millions Access point over the country, and both phone provided by Free (the ISP) are quite bad, a wistron and a pirelli which are not opened, and anyway pieces of shit), so many people are interested by the PEAP feature ;) -- Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Hessing Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:13 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007 Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, GTA01 850MHz Experiment --- As mentioned in the last update, we modified a couple of GTA01 handsets for 850MHz operation to test them in the USA. Due to the enthusiastic response I received to my request for testing volunteers I've asked our hardware group to modify a few more phones. I don't know when, or even if, they will be able to do this. Meanwhile, I'll be sending out the units I have to the testers, along with a simple test plan. GSM Firmware Update --- We are still waiting for the signed agreement allowing you to update the GSM firmware yourselves. Meanwhile, we have resolved the difficulties I was having in performing the upgrade, and I am now able to upgrade your handsets. Anyone interested in having me do this should contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] GTA01 Advanced Kit price reduction -- We have dropped the price of the GTA01 Advanced Kit from $450 to $399. I'm pretty sure that's effective immediately and should be reflected at our web store right now. The price of Base Kit remains the same. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Any idea about the wpa2 and peap authentication compatibility I had asked you about during the previous community update? Richard I am currently porting XSupplicant over to the Moko. I am about half way done. Once that is done, PEAP will be available at a minimum. WEP/WPA/WPA2 are going to rely on the driver supporting it. I plan to have the engine ported before the end of the month (if I have the time). Then I'll need to create a Moko-ified UI to configure it. As long as there's the Equifax security certificate it'll support our network. It would also be a huge move for cell phone wifi as it would be the only phone that works with our network. Richard We don't usually bundle certificates with the supplicant. (I believe there are some that come with OpenSSL, so as a side effect you will get those.) However, there will be an easy way to add new trusted certificates to the store. So you should be able to easily get it working with certificates from anyone that can generate a certificate. (Internally, the Open1X team uses a mixture of self-signed single level, self-signed multi-level, and commercial certificates.) Hopefully this will meet your needs. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, GTA02v5 status?
Erland Lewin wrote: Thanks for the updates, Michael. Any update on how the GTA02v5 evaluation is proceeding? /Erland Hi Erland, As mentioned on 12/06/2007 We are waiting for confirmation of Wifi and a few other parts of the GTA02a4 hardware before we manufacture even a small test run of GTA02a5. So the formal answer to your question is that GTA02v5 evaluation has not yet started. The Wifi driver continues to make good progress, but not enough yet that we might complete evaluation of the hardware. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, GTA01 850MHz Experiment --- As mentioned in the last update, we modified a couple of GTA01 handsets for 850MHz operation to test them in the USA. Due to the enthusiastic response I received to my request for testing volunteers I've asked our hardware group to modify a few more phones. I don't know when, or even if, they will be able to do this. Meanwhile, I'll be sending out the units I have to the testers, along with a simple test plan. GSM Firmware Update --- We are still waiting for the signed agreement allowing you to update the GSM firmware yourselves. Meanwhile, we have resolved the difficulties I was having in performing the upgrade, and I am now able to upgrade your handsets. Anyone interested in having me do this should contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] GTA01 Advanced Kit price reduction -- We have dropped the price of the GTA01 Advanced Kit from $450 to $399. I'm pretty sure that's effective immediately and should be reflected at our web store right now. The price of Base Kit remains the same. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Any idea about the wpa2 and peap authentication compatibility I had asked you about during the previous community update? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
GSM Firmware Update --- We are still waiting for the signed agreement allowing you to update the GSM firmware yourselves. Meanwhile, we have resolved the difficulties I was having in performing the upgrade, and I am now able to upgrade your handsets. Anyone interested in having me do this should contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael was decent enough to have me ship my GTA01 to him a few weeks ago to do some testing with this GSM firmware upgrade. He was also nice enough to install some recent version of the firmware on the phone for me too since my version was rather old. The GTA01 came back a few days ago, and I've just gotten around to doing some quick testing on it. I'm happy to say that the TMobile SIM card that wouldn't work with the GTA01 before will at least recognize a network is available and attempt to dial out. I reported a while back on the list that the SIM card which says 39.01a on the side couldn't be recognized at all, but now seems to at least connect to the TMobile network, report signal strength, and at least attempt to make a phone call. Unfortunately the dialer just sits at the Outgoing Call screen and doesn't actually ring my home phone number. The ATT 3G SIM card I got with my new BlackJack II (bought one the day it was released), which has a serial number reported on the wiki page as being one that works with the GTA01 (71234 O 4022) not only recognized a network and connected, the test phone call actually rang my home phone and I had a pleasant conversation with myself for a few seconds -- don't tell my therapist... I worried that my apartment complex has a lot of buildings around it and that perhaps the higher frequency band wasn't strong enough and that only the 850MHz signal would get through (which as we all know isn't available on the GTA01), but my Neo made the call, which has me pretty happy. Overall, I'd be happier if the TMobile card worked with the GTA01, but we're a step closer. I don't know (yet) what the cause is, but the GSM firmware now at least recognizes the SIM card and connects to their network -- anyone know if this is perhaps just a case of needing a PIN number for the SIM, or how I'd go about getting the PIN number from TMobile? So Michael, a very hearty public thanks (!!!) for upgrading the GSM modem firmware for me. Ian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, GTA01 850MHz Experiment --- As mentioned in the last update, we modified a couple of GTA01 handsets for 850MHz operation to test them in the USA. Due to the enthusiastic response I received to my request for testing volunteers I've asked our hardware group to modify a few more phones. I don't know when, or even if, they will be able to do this. Meanwhile, I'll be sending out the units I have to the testers, along with a simple test plan. GSM Firmware Update --- We are still waiting for the signed agreement allowing you to update the GSM firmware yourselves. Meanwhile, we have resolved the difficulties I was having in performing the upgrade, and I am now able to upgrade your handsets. Anyone interested in having me do this should contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] GTA01 Advanced Kit price reduction -- We have dropped the price of the GTA01 Advanced Kit from $450 to $399. I'm pretty sure that's effective immediately and should be reflected at our web store right now. The price of Base Kit remains the same. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Any idea about the wpa2 and peap authentication compatibility I had asked you about during the previous community update? Richard I am currently porting XSupplicant over to the Moko. I am about half way done. Once that is done, PEAP will be available at a minimum. WEP/WPA/WPA2 are going to rely on the driver supporting it. I plan to have the engine ported before the end of the month (if I have the time). Then I'll need to create a Moko-ified UI to configure it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Hessing Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:13 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Community update, Thursday, December 20 2007 Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, GTA01 850MHz Experiment --- As mentioned in the last update, we modified a couple of GTA01 handsets for 850MHz operation to test them in the USA. Due to the enthusiastic response I received to my request for testing volunteers I've asked our hardware group to modify a few more phones. I don't know when, or even if, they will be able to do this. Meanwhile, I'll be sending out the units I have to the testers, along with a simple test plan. GSM Firmware Update --- We are still waiting for the signed agreement allowing you to update the GSM firmware yourselves. Meanwhile, we have resolved the difficulties I was having in performing the upgrade, and I am now able to upgrade your handsets. Anyone interested in having me do this should contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] GTA01 Advanced Kit price reduction -- We have dropped the price of the GTA01 Advanced Kit from $450 to $399. I'm pretty sure that's effective immediately and should be reflected at our web store right now. The price of Base Kit remains the same. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Any idea about the wpa2 and peap authentication compatibility I had asked you about during the previous community update? Richard I am currently porting XSupplicant over to the Moko. I am about half way done. Once that is done, PEAP will be available at a minimum. WEP/WPA/WPA2 are going to rely on the driver supporting it. I plan to have the engine ported before the end of the month (if I have the time). Then I'll need to create a Moko-ified UI to configure it. As long as there's the Equifax security certificate it'll support our network. It would also be a huge move for cell phone wifi as it would be the only phone that works with our network. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia poniedziałek, 10 grudnia 2007, Richard Reichenbacher napisał: I am a student at the University of Arizona and work for the IT department. We have one of the worlds largest Cisco Radius wifi setups in the world. Our main wifi network uses wpa enterprise with peap authentication and the equifax secure certificate for loging in. Currently, we are unable to find a cell phone that will work with our network. None of them support wpa enterprise with peap authentication. Is there any chance that the GTA02 will support this? For connecting to WPA networks WPA Supplicant [1] is used. Currently it supports few EAP-PEAP modes: EAP-PEAP/MSCHAPv2 (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/TLS (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/GTC (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/OTP (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/MD5-Challenge (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) If you are able to connect to that network with Linux laptop then you should be able to connect with GTA02. I do not know does WiFi driver was tested with encryption yet. 1. http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/ We have been able to connect perfectly with any distro and Network-Manager. It's actually much easier to do it in Linux than in Windows. The issue is that most companies don't see wpa-enterprise as a necessity for a cell phone. Unfortunately our setup is become very popular among other college campuses and wifi capable cell phones are becoming more popular among college students. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
On Monday 10 December 2007, Nick Guenther wrote: On 12/9/07, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. By modify do you mean update GSM chip firmware or update linux-level GSM driver or something else all together? I have a GTA01 and I'm in an 850/1900 area. I can help test, if you point me in the right direction. Modify as in change some of the components on the board. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Hi Michael: As I mentioned in a previous email to you, I'm in a 850Mhz _only_ area - so I can test the handset for you - though I am in Canada. Provider is Rogers and the area is Ottawa. Also, would there be any possibility of releasing the changes made to the GTA01 to make it 850Mhz compatible? Or maybe a service to send in our GTA01 to have the modifications made (for a reasonable price)? Thanks, Adam King On Dec 9, 2007 7:01 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. Wifi driver: We're making very good progress, but it's still not finished. GTA02 hardware: Still waiting for the Wifi driver to verify the Wifi hardware, but so far we're feeling quite good about this part. There are a couple of other things to verify, and as mentioned before we will most likely make another revision of the board, which will hopefully be the production-ready revision. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Depending on the level of complexity, this could be *great* news for me. I don't travel internationally that often (currently, but the frequency could always up in the future) so having quad-band is borderline nice and necessity. But if I could make changes (before/after trips) to switch the bands, then I might consider that a workable solution. I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, so as long as it isn't too complex I'd feel comfortable doing it. I know that they are probably into very finalized versions of the hardware, but it might be worth looking into how much change would be required to ease the transition between bands. Example, if it is just a small number of wires that has to be changed, possibly creating a switch to toggle between the settings. I, for one, would consider that a more than suitable workaround and almost nullify my no-quadband issues. -Jonathon -Original Message- From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:50 -0500 In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
I would also be very interested in re-work instructions for modifying a GTA01 to support 850MHz as many of us are capable doing circuit modifications. Thanks, Cliff On Dec 10, 2007 9:32 AM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- === Cliff Brake http://bec-systems.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
As has been discussed earlier, this is not a change you can make yourself. Conceivably, you could change the components yourself, if you had the right equipment, but there are also changes to the firmware that you can not make yourself. There is no possibility of adding a switch, as a number of components have to be replaced. Michael Jonathon Suggs wrote: Depending on the level of complexity, this could be *great* news for me. I don't travel internationally that often (currently, but the frequency could always up in the future) so having quad-band is borderline nice and necessity. But if I could make changes (before/after trips) to switch the bands, then I might consider that a workable solution. I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, so as long as it isn't too complex I'd feel comfortable doing it. I know that they are probably into very finalized versions of the hardware, but it might be worth looking into how much change would be required to ease the transition between bands. Example, if it is just a small number of wires that has to be changed, possibly creating a switch to toggle between the settings. I, for one, would consider that a more than suitable workaround and almost nullify my no-quadband issues. -Jonathon -Original Message- From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:50 -0500 In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
As mentioned earlier, this requires replacing a number of components, firmware changes, and recalibration. Michael Mark wrote: In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Yes, but not the recalibration or the firmware changes. One step at a time - let's see if these units work, and if so, we'll look into if there is any way to tackle the other issues. Michael Cliff Brake wrote: I would also be very interested in re-work instructions for modifying a GTA01 to support 850MHz as many of us are capable doing circuit modifications. Thanks, Cliff On Dec 10, 2007 9:32 AM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In regards to the 850MHz Issue: It seems that very little effort was required to switch a phone board to 850 for testing. So my question is what exactly is involved. Was it simply switching which pin is attached to the antenna? If it is a relatively simple circuit change and involving only a top (or bottom) layer trace, is it possible to tell us what connections to change to convert an existing unit to 850MHz. Obviously only for the very experienced people. If there is different capacitor, etc required to match the frequency it might be less doable, but details would be nice. once the design has been confirmed. On a side note this is excellent news that the 850 variant may not be far behind GTA02. Mark Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Jason Joines wrote: Is there any possibility of a future hardware version becoming quad band? As mentioned earlier, there is no chance that GTA02 will be quad-band. There is certainly a possibility that future products will be quad-band. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
I'm curious, since these 850 variants are most likely going to be an option, when can we expect them? Are they going to be available at the same time as the public offering of the GTA02, or are they going to be available way after that? On Dec 9, 2007 6:01 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. Wifi driver: We're making very good progress, but it's still not finished. GTA02 hardware: Still waiting for the Wifi driver to verify the Wifi hardware, but so far we're feeling quite good about this part. There are a couple of other things to verify, and as mentioned before we will most likely make another revision of the board, which will hopefully be the production-ready revision. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Hello Tim, OpenMoko does not predict when things will be ready; rather, we try to communicate as much as possible on what we are doing and what we hope to do. By the way, you say ... most likely going to be an option I'd like to point out that we are still evaluating the possibility of offering an 850MHz variant and have come to no such conclusion ourselves. Regards, Michael Tim Shannon wrote: I'm curious, since these 850 variants are most likely going to be an option, when can we expect them? Are they going to be available at the same time as the public offering of the GTA02, or are they going to be available way after that? On Dec 9, 2007 6:01 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. Wifi driver: We're making very good progress, but it's still not finished. GTA02 hardware: Still waiting for the Wifi driver to verify the Wifi hardware, but so far we're feeling quite good about this part. There are a couple of other things to verify, and as mentioned before we will most likely make another revision of the board, which will hopefully be the production-ready revision. Regards, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Wifi driver: We're making very good progress, but it's still not finished. GTA02 hardware: Still waiting for the Wifi driver to verify the Wifi hardware, but so far we're feeling quite good about this part. There are a couple of other things to verify, and as mentioned before we will most likely make another revision of the board, which will hopefully be the production-ready revision. Regards, Michael Hey Michael, I am a student at the University of Arizona and work for the IT department. We have one of the worlds largest Cisco Radius wifi setups in the world. Our main wifi network uses wpa enterprise with peap authentication and the equifax secure certificate for loging in. Currently, we are unable to find a cell phone that will work with our network. None of them support wpa enterprise with peap authentication. Is there any chance that the GTA02 will support this? Thanks, Richard Reichenbacher ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Wifi driver: We're making very good progress, but it's still not finished. GTA02 hardware: Still waiting for the Wifi driver to verify the Wifi hardware, but so far we're feeling quite good about this part. There are a couple of other things to verify, and as mentioned before we will most likely make another revision of the board, which will hopefully be the production-ready revision. Regards, Michael Hey Michael, I am a student at the University of Arizona and work for the IT department. We have one of the worlds largest Cisco Radius wifi setups in the world. Our main wifi network uses wpa enterprise with peap authentication and the equifax secure certificate for loging in. Currently, we are unable to find a cell phone that will work with our network. None of them support wpa enterprise with peap authentication. Is there any chance that the GTA02 will support this? Hi Richard, That's an excellent question, one to which I don't know the answer. I'll forward this on to the Wifi driver people, in case they are not on this list. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
On 12/9/07, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. By modify do you mean update GSM chip firmware or update linux-level GSM driver or something else all together? I have a GTA01 and I'm in an 850/1900 area. I can help test, if you point me in the right direction. -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. Hey Michael, I just realized that I might be road tripping from Tucson, AZ to Fort Myers, Fl sometime soon. I'd be able to test 850 all along the south. Let me know if I might qualify for the test. Richard Reichenbacher ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Hi, I live in Southern Minnesota, in the area indicated by the blue spot on this map: http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/cing-attws_800_850.html It would seem that I would be a candidate for testing the 850mhz reception. Let me know if I can help. -Will On Dec 9, 2007 8:46 PM, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi, GSM Firmware update: We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties, and all that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! 850MHz experiment: As mentioned before we're looking into offering an 850MHz variant of the triband GTA02. Since the GSM section is essentially the same between GTA01 and GTA02, we thought a good experiment would be to modify a couple GTA01 handsets for 850MHz and to test them out here in the USA. I just received these handsets on Friday and am now trying to figure out how to thoroughly test them. Rather than me traveling around the country, it might make sense to ship them to various users to test them with different carriers. Please write to me if you are in an 850MHz area and are interested in participating. Hey Michael, I just realized that I might be road tripping from Tucson, AZ to Fort Myers, Fl sometime soon. I'd be able to test 850 all along the south. Let me know if I might qualify for the test. Richard Reichenbacher ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware, 850MHz experiment, GTA02 progress
Dnia poniedziałek, 10 grudnia 2007, Richard Reichenbacher napisał: I am a student at the University of Arizona and work for the IT department. We have one of the worlds largest Cisco Radius wifi setups in the world. Our main wifi network uses wpa enterprise with peap authentication and the equifax secure certificate for loging in. Currently, we are unable to find a cell phone that will work with our network. None of them support wpa enterprise with peap authentication. Is there any chance that the GTA02 will support this? For connecting to WPA networks WPA Supplicant [1] is used. Currently it supports few EAP-PEAP modes: EAP-PEAP/MSCHAPv2 (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/TLS (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/GTC (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/OTP (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) EAP-PEAP/MD5-Challenge (both PEAPv0 and PEAPv1) If you are able to connect to that network with Linux laptop then you should be able to connect with GTA02. I do not know does WiFi driver was tested with encryption yet. 1. http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/ -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Gdyby człowiek musiał zezwalać innym na to, co toleruje u siebie, życie byłoby nie do wytrzymania. [Georges Courteline] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update
Standard Precision Service (SPS) for GPS is open to the general public and all information related to it should be unclassified, although some is For Official Use Only (FOUO). Pres Bill Clinton made a Presidential Decree, when he was in office, that gave undiluted precision of SPS to the public. SPS is presented in C/A code, which is a pseudo-random code, on the L1 band and is separate from military Precise Position Service (PPS). As long as only SPS and C/A code is used there /*should*/ be no problem. The only possible hang-up I can think of is there /*may*/ be a rule that imposes an altitude that consumer gps devices must fail to output positioning data above... but I can't remember. Also a copy of the C/A code or the design of the Feedback Registers that generate the C/A code would have to be obtained. That should be public information though. Any GPS radio used should probably be able to also receive on the L2 band, in case we decide to try and implement our own tropospheric compensation algorithms to improve precision. That isn't too big a deal though, because nav almanac data would be good enough for most cases. -Jeremiah Kyle Bassett wrote: Curiosity prevails: I do see a few benefits to a device which is just a GPS radio, like what Ian has stated. Would their be any legal ramifications to a reverse-engineered open source binary interpreter for the GPS radio? I saw a few people mention government concerns with having access to a very accurate GPS device, but what about Global Locate's license agreement (if any) by using their hardware? I think a GPS radio would make an excellent open source project; allowing access to the specifics of GPS (theory) not available with closed firmware. I wouldn't mind working on this project. -Kyle On Nov 29, 2007 9:46 PM, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug Sutherland wrote: Mikko wrote: 2) Yes, it can make sense not to have a bazillion CPUs on board from various perspectives. I evaluated no less than 25 different GPS modules some years ago and compared them in all important aspects. Every single one had a microcontroller onboard. I do not agree that it makes any sense at all not to choose one of these types. They are down to the size of a thumbnail almost. Is the microcontroller a CPU, technically yes, but it's part of the receiver, and you want to do all this fancy GUI and not suck the life of the battery from ARM9 usage. It is a good thing they ditched that GPS. It is now standard that any GPS module does have a microcontroller inside, most commonly some variant of ARM7, super low power, you never deal with any firmware. (sorry for the late response) To clarify why it might be nice - yes there are simplicity benefits from just using a GPS with a NMEA output (or at least with that as an option) If the existing hardware had an open-source driver (there was some progress towards such, but this has stalled since it was announced it would not be used in GTA02) then many of these objections go away. The following is based on preliminary work that has not been completed, and due to the lack of work on the current GPS may never be. The device is basically only a software radio, that does the absolute minimum to enable the host to avoid having to do hard-real time stuff, 115200 baud serial is just fine. As I understand it, the following things are possible, which are difficult to do with 'normal' chipsets. Wakeup once every 3 minutes for 1s, to maintain lock on satellites, keeping a reasonable (say 50m) position accuracy, with the GPS totally off in the interim. This (with the mobile phone part off) uses a very small amount of power, enough to track for around 8 months. Logging all parameters of the signal that the chip measures in hardware, so that the track can be post-processed for better accuracy. The option of delaying the output of the signal by 10s+, and being able to smooth the output based on the 'future' movement, not just the past. (this can dramatically improve tracks round sharp corners) Being able to feed in information from the accelerometers to go into the position solution. (this is mainly useful in cars - the accels give you good turn rate info) Using even 'failed' GPS satellites as position sources, with the aid of AGPS (however, this is unlikely to be of use unless the GPS system stops being maintained) Easy tradeoffs between output noise and update frequency - few devices support updates faster than 1Hz. User-provided AGPS correction information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Community Update
Curiosity prevails: I do see a few benefits to a device which is just a GPS radio, like what Ian has stated. Would their be any legal ramifications to a reverse-engineered open source binary interpreter for the GPS radio? I saw a few people mention government concerns with having access to a very accurate GPS device, but what about Global Locate's license agreement (if any) by using their hardware? I think a GPS radio would make an excellent open source project; allowing access to the specifics of GPS (theory) not available with closed firmware. I wouldn't mind working on this project. -Kyle On Nov 29, 2007 9:46 PM, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug Sutherland wrote: Mikko wrote: 2) Yes, it can make sense not to have a bazillion CPUs on board from various perspectives. I evaluated no less than 25 different GPS modules some years ago and compared them in all important aspects. Every single one had a microcontroller onboard. I do not agree that it makes any sense at all not to choose one of these types. They are down to the size of a thumbnail almost. Is the microcontroller a CPU, technically yes, but it's part of the receiver, and you want to do all this fancy GUI and not suck the life of the battery from ARM9 usage. It is a good thing they ditched that GPS. It is now standard that any GPS module does have a microcontroller inside, most commonly some variant of ARM7, super low power, you never deal with any firmware. (sorry for the late response) To clarify why it might be nice - yes there are simplicity benefits from just using a GPS with a NMEA output (or at least with that as an option) If the existing hardware had an open-source driver (there was some progress towards such, but this has stalled since it was announced it would not be used in GTA02) then many of these objections go away. The following is based on preliminary work that has not been completed, and due to the lack of work on the current GPS may never be. The device is basically only a software radio, that does the absolute minimum to enable the host to avoid having to do hard-real time stuff, 115200 baud serial is just fine. As I understand it, the following things are possible, which are difficult to do with 'normal' chipsets. Wakeup once every 3 minutes for 1s, to maintain lock on satellites, keeping a reasonable (say 50m) position accuracy, with the GPS totally off in the interim. This (with the mobile phone part off) uses a very small amount of power, enough to track for around 8 months. Logging all parameters of the signal that the chip measures in hardware, so that the track can be post-processed for better accuracy. The option of delaying the output of the signal by 10s+, and being able to smooth the output based on the 'future' movement, not just the past. (this can dramatically improve tracks round sharp corners) Being able to feed in information from the accelerometers to go into the position solution. (this is mainly useful in cars - the accels give you good turn rate info) Using even 'failed' GPS satellites as position sources, with the aid of AGPS (however, this is unlikely to be of use unless the GPS system stops being maintained) Easy tradeoffs between output noise and update frequency - few devices support updates faster than 1Hz. User-provided AGPS correction information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Ian Darwin wrote: Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. It is not always possible. The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. I understand what the FCC is worried about (though I do not, necessarily agree with it. Anyone can build an unauthorized transmitter, and writing code that says you have copyright permission to modify this code, but you will have to get it certified with FCC yourself before you are allowed to use it does not, in my eyes, reduce your freedom). In other words, you will NEVER get a truly 100% open source cell phone as long as the FCC rules are as they are. Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. Here, at least, I suspect that the reasons have less to do with an external certification authority, and thus have more hopes for the future. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
exactly accurate respose/analysis. Hank On Nov 14, 2007 4:18 AM, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. It is not always possible. The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. I understand what the FCC is worried about (though I do not, necessarily agree with it. Anyone can build an unauthorized transmitter, and writing code that says you have copyright permission to modify this code, but you will have to get it certified with FCC yourself before you are allowed to use it does not, in my eyes, reduce your freedom). In other words, you will NEVER get a truly 100% open source cell phone as long as the FCC rules are as they are. Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. Here, at least, I suspect that the reasons have less to do with an external certification authority, and thus have more hopes for the future. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. It solved the problem of requiring closed software to run on the host CPU, which is the most important threshold. In my opinion it is unrealistic to expect a device like the Neo1973 to use completely open hardware. A serial-attached GPS module with closed-source firmware is no worse than the hard drive with closed-source firmware in everyone's desktop PC. http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/OpenGnssProjects/ has some good links to open GPS projects, but I don't know of any that would be suitable for a mobile phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Shachar Shemesh The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking, the actual firmware cannot and will not be open sourced, however, other companies allow firmware updates to load firmware created by the manufacturer, just as they do for GPS receiver modules and many other devices. You can update firmware, even as an end user, much in the same fashion as flashing a bios on pc, for most products like this. So although we know the firmware for things like gsm, gps, bluetooth, wifi will not be open source, long term it would be best if FIC worked towards using modules that can be field updated by users. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Mike Montour wrote: A serial-attached GPS module with closed-source firmware is no worse than the hard drive with closed-source firmware in everyone's desktop PC. Just for the record - I agree. It is unrealistic to expect EVERYTHING to be open source at this stage. I'm just stating that the move solves the practical, but not the ideals related, problems. If you were RMS, it would not matter to you. Which brings up an interesting question of why RMS has not opposed proprietary hard disk controllers firmware yet, but that's just musing. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
In other words, pretty much nothing (except for your *very* generous offer to update phones in person, for which thanks!!). This is not an occasion for us all to vent frustration at Sean, Mike, et al. However it is a very good occasion to restate something: everyone, at all times, involved in open source projects: Never, ever settle on a chip or chipset that requires NDA, or that doesn't provide freely available (as in, click to download a PDF with *no registration required*), complete specs that a developer would need to build an open source driver. Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. Michael, thanks for the update, and good luck getting those calls returned. I'm sure the company won't use any proprietary chips in future hardwares! Ian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
I realize the 850mhz issue is complex and you can't give an answer right away, but I'd like to know when we could expect one? I'm one of the many North American's who needs the 850 band, and If I know it's coming I'm going to start doing some software dev, if it's not I'll start looking elsewhere. -Will On Nov 7, 2007 2:29 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a little imprecise here. The circuit design, and thus board layout, is what limits the handset to 3 bands. The components selected (along with firmware and certification) select the 900/1800/1900MHz bands. Michael Randall Mason wrote: Michael said above that it was a question of a physical hardware change: The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead we support 900/1800/1900MHz. Board layout is a hardware issue. On 11/6/07, *Tim Shannon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, I don't know much about the hardware in question, but is it just a firmware issue, or does the hardware have to physically change to move between the 900 or the 850 frequency? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 03:36, Jon wrote: I'd suggest everyone find their country on GSM World: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml and check their providers. Unfortunately some of the maps don't differentiate between 850 and 1900 (for example Rogers Wireless in Canada). The other two Canadian carriers listed, and the Mexican seem to be 1900 only. So it looks like the US just wants to be different, as usual. Afaik the first GSM phones all used 900Mhz. Some time later the 1800 and 1900 frequencies where added. The 850 frequency was introduced far later, I guess that's because the 900 band is used for something else in the US, at least, I hope that's the reason. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
