Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/20 Giovanni pino.o...@gmail.com MIPS is a great architecture and I am sure that it will have a bright future. Looking even brighter already: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/06/mips_android_port_open_sourced/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Wolfgang Are you a mechanical engineer? Or do you know some that are interested in joining to work on a free design and/or can do some coding too? :-) I`m a qualified mechanical engineer, currently finishing my Masters degree. Although I have some experience in solid modelling, I`m not that familiar with injection molding. As my primary interests are in simulation and optimization. Non the less, I would happily help out where I can with the mechanical aspects of the design. As far as coding goes, I`m a farely experienced python programming implementing all my own code in python. As far as the lower level languages go I still have to get around to learning them. There seems to be a lot of activity in HeeksCAD the last 6 months, so that's encouraging. It uses OpenCASCADE. Do you know other free 3D tools? The only free CAD/CAE software i`ve really used is Salome, which is also based on openCASCADE. regards, Adolph -- Adolph J. Vogel BEng(Hons) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
john wrote: [snip] ...look at new areas such as hackable wearable computing. Thus I am interested in seeing things get smaller and cheaper and more hackable and not getting more shiny! +1 Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
steven mosher wrote: 2. Build a Copyleft version of the Iphone from scratch. pass me 400Million and I'll get right on it! But you can't just build the iPhone, you have to build what apple will ship 18 months from now to be competitive. Heh, I'd do it for 40 ;-) But I think the fallacy is in trying to mimic the iPhone anyway. The way I see it, Apple took an existing and well-understood concept, added a competently done design, and created an open market for applications. Perhaps the most significant departure from the industry's old course lies in partially superseding the carrier-centric lock-in model. Smartphone hardware, however, still seems to be largely driven by the vision of the video phone. If you trace back the history of the video phone, you'll end up somewhere in 1927 with Lang's Metropolis. Now, if you're making a movie, wouldn't you rather use a video phone instead of a plain old telephone ? After all, you want to show moving pictures and your actors are already dressed up, presentable, and exist in a perfectly scripted universe in which all calls are important and always happen at exactly the right moment. With virtually every movie that depicts an even slightly futuristic world showing video telephony, it's no surprise that some people do start to believe that this will be part of the future ... With that in mind, we could ask ourselves what are the roads not taken in the guided evolution of the mobile phone, because they led away from that perceived holy grail. Then put the creative energy not wasted on chasing Apple into doing something that's really groundbreaking. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Hi With virtually every movie that depicts an even slightly futuristic world showing video telephony, it's no surprise that some people do start to believe that this will be part of the future ... With that in mind, we could ask ourselves what are the roads not taken in the guided evolution of the mobile phone, because they led away from that perceived holy grail. Then put the creative energy not wasted on chasing Apple into doing something that's really groundbreaking. Interesting observation :-) So, what did science fiction *miss* ? I've always been amazed by the 1-on-1 nature of phone calls. Perhaps that made sense in the time of landlines and switchboards, but nowadays, especially in an office environment, you find yourself calling 5 people one after another just to get an appointment fixed (or rather, you'd do it by email-or-something, which supports multiple recipients. but then, that gets confusing because of the asynchrone responses .. ) Ofcourse, you cant expect people to jump into a conference call every moment. But if you could 'add' a person during a call, that would help. It would be possible if only one of the connected devices could do that. just dreaming.. *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/25 pike pike-openm...@kw.nl Ofcourse, you cant expect people to jump into a conference call every moment. But if you could 'add' a person during a call, that would help. It would be possible if only one of the connected devices could do that. just dreaming.. Not really, with voip you can do that easily. I think voip is the future anyway. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
applied sci-fi (was Re: New Open Hardware company)
[ Changed the subject, for we've veered off-topic. ] pike wrote: So, what did science fiction *miss* ? Actually, very little :) One thing that could make voice telecommunication a lot more attractive would be an avatar who listens and understands. Voice mail makes many people uncomfortable because they don't get none of feedback that normally accompanies a conversation. Even voice telephony has that kind of problem to some extent, particularly with large end-to-end delay. A possible improvement would be some sort of avatar that provides these clues and fools the speaker into feeling as if he or she was talking to a real human being. Determining how all this might work would need a bit of research, though. TV fakes continuous motion, MP3 fakes a loss-less reproduction, so I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't fake a human listener as well with less effort than dragging a real human to the phone. Okay, that's a far-out idea. Something closer to home: if you don't need video telephony, you don't need rapidly updating color images. So, put e-paper into those phones. Maybe even the well-established grayscale type. It probably still updates quickly enough that you could even doodle on it. Oops, have we just eaten a big chunk of the e-book reader market ? So sorry ;-) As an added bonus, you can get flexible e-paper. I don't know how much abuse it can take, but maybe you could hide something that gives tactile feedback under it ? Wouldn't a touch screen that feels as if it had real keys be nice ? I've always been amazed by the 1-on-1 nature of phone calls. Oh, that's been solved already. Even GSM supports multi-party calls. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: applied sci-fi (was Re: New Open Hardware company)
Hi Okay, that's a far-out idea. Something closer to home: if you don't need video telephony, you don't need rapidly updating color images. So, put e-paper into those phones. Maybe even the well-established grayscale type. It probably still updates quickly enough that you could even doodle on it. I've been trying to prepare my openmoko as a 'hitchhiker guide to the galaxy' - using the lonely planet in pdf format. but it didnt really cut edge :-/ I've always been amazed by the 1-on-1 nature of phone calls. Oh, that's been solved already. Even GSM supports multi-party calls. strange, i've never seen it in day-to-day usage. can't do it on my phone afaik ? 'ok sue, lets ask him - tuut - hi john, its sue and dan here, we had a question' 'how did you do that, dan ? oh, i've an open phone'. cu *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: applied sci-fi (was Re: New Open Hardware company)
pike wrote: strange, i've never seen it in day-to-day usage. can't do it on my phone afaik ? It's certainly one of the more obscure features :) You should be able to use it by making the first call, then call the next party and join the calls, and so on. Not sure if any of the Openmoko distros support this. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Actually one of the things I would like to do with a NanoNote is turn it into a dedicated Twitter client! I think opinion will always be divided on form factor. I have owned many devices from the Psion Series II through to the iPhone but I still like Zaurus clamshell designs. I also like the idea of a tiny Linux computer in my pocket or even on a key chain. I don't see the progression as trying to compete with the iPhone but to look at new areas such as hackable wearable computing. Thus I am interested in seeing things get smaller and cheaper and more hackable and not getting more shiny! John. 2009/7/24 Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de: [snip] Psion Plc. invent the clamshell and set the top-level of usable keyboard verses form-factor with Series 3 twenty years ago. We are in the SMS/twitter age now. Some vitual keyboard with multi-touch usability is sufficient. People who want to write full sentences buy a pencil with white paper. In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/24 Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? I hope you are talking just about the design. Physical keyboard is way better if you're typing a lot. Even small. The screen is protected when it's in your pocket. I could probably tell you a lot more if I had both of them in my hands. Michal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
just few comments from a European! :) Its just FINE that you base your company in China. China is worldwide a synonym of superior quality and most advanced technology in terms of electronics and they are catching up extremely fast with the rest of the industrial activities. I wouldn't care about Sisvel. Let them try to sue you in ... China :) What Sisvel 'defines' is useless and they know that. How may chinese companies were sued anyway? :) iPhone is WAY too expensive! A pure Mickey Mouse device. What I would like to see from your product would be a about 150EUR one where I can install by myself the needed s/w (OpenMoko style!) and use it as a portable multimedia player - for the beginning! :) In general is a NICE TRY and hope you'll release soon a ready to run device. Cheers Tony On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.dewrote: 2. you announce products which are not exitant for sales. It is our intention to announce roadmaps in the most open way customers prefer to know less and creat rumours. 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. We don't need them. Nobody needs them, but you have to pay them anyway. (Sisvel definition: any piece of HW who can decode MPEG algorith) 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. I am mentioning a marketing problem. I am mentioning a quality problem. Besides, Iphone backside says assambled in China. 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete Not a single one commented negatively about the clamshell. Psion Plc. invent the clamshell and set the top-level of usable keyboard verses form-factor with Series 3 twenty years ago. We are in the SMS/twitter age now. Some vitual keyboard with multi-touch usability is sufficient. People who want to write full sentences buy a pencil with white paper. In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Friday 24 July 2009, Christoph Pulster wrote: 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete Not a single one commented negatively about the clamshell. Psion Plc. invent the clamshell and set the top-level of usable keyboard verses form-factor with Series 3 twenty years ago. Then raised it again a few years later with the Series 5 We are in the SMS/twitter age now. Some vitual keyboard with multi-touch usability is sufficient. People who want to write full sentences buy a pencil with white paper. If that were true RIM wouldn't be doing so well. I still want a Series 5 with modern hardware inside and a screen from PixelQi, and I know several former Psion and Nokia Communicator owners who would agree. It may be a niche market, but it's a reasonably large niche that's currently unserved. The quality of the keyboard is critical here. In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? Price. Keyboard. Not having a capacitive touchscreen. No problem with scratched or broken screen because the clamshell provides protection. But they really aren't comparable devices anyway. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Tony, just a few misconceptions - Qi is global, same as Openmoko. Headquarter in San Francisco, RD in Taiwan, Germany, USA. Production in China. About patents - we care a lot. Qi Hardware is Copyleft Hardware. How could we think that this would work if we didn't respect intellectual property? We are not basing a business on risking lawsuits. Our general approach is - avoid patented technology whenever possible. Research carefully, help ourselves and our partners to accidentally step into a patent mine, maybe join a patent defense pool. After all, owning a patent still doesn't mean that you can force everybody to make use of your patent. It's not that bad yet! :-) Thanks for the heads up... Wolfgang On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:52:17AM +0200, Tony Berth wrote: just few comments from a European! :) Its just FINE that you base your company in China. China is worldwide a synonym of superior quality and most advanced technology in terms of electronics and they are catching up extremely fast with the rest of the industrial activities. I wouldn't care about Sisvel. Let them try to sue you in ... China :) What Sisvel 'defines' is useless and they know that. How may chinese companies were sued anyway? :) iPhone is WAY too expensive! A pure Mickey Mouse device. What I would like to see from your product would be a about 150EUR one where I can install by myself the needed s/w (OpenMoko style!) and use it as a portable multimedia player - for the beginning! :) In general is a NICE TRY and hope you'll release soon a ready to run device. Cheers Tony On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.dewrote: 2. you announce products which are not exitant for sales. It is our intention to announce roadmaps in the most open way customers prefer to know less and creat rumours. 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. We don't need them. Nobody needs them, but you have to pay them anyway. (Sisvel definition: any piece of HW who can decode MPEG algorith) 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. I am mentioning a marketing problem. I am mentioning a quality problem. Besides, Iphone backside says assambled in China. 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete Not a single one commented negatively about the clamshell. Psion Plc. invent the clamshell and set the top-level of usable keyboard verses form-factor with Series 3 twenty years ago. We are in the SMS/twitter age now. Some vitual keyboard with multi-touch usability is sufficient. People who want to write full sentences buy a pencil with white paper. In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Friday 24 July 2009, Tony Berth wrote: I wouldn't care about Sisvel. Let them try to sue you in ... China :) What Sisvel 'defines' is useless and they know that. How may chinese companies were sued anyway? :) Christoph's problem is that as a reseller he's the one that gets sued, or has his stock seized by customs. It's no good being right if you can't afford to take it through court, and Sisvel know that too. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.dewrote: 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. We don't need them. Nobody needs them, but you have to pay them anyway. (Sisvel definition: any piece of HW who can decode MPEG algorith) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Exactly, As I've said before people do a dis service to values of openess by these point comparisons between iPhone and everything else. But if that comparison must be made then let the first bullet point be this: Open versus Closed. That said if the goal is to create an iPhone clone with Linux on board then I see these paths: 1. Convince Apple that Copyleft is the way to go for hardware and software. Good chance there. NANNY APPLE won't even let you put adult content on your phone. I spent the day two days ago with a really cool company that signed all apple agreements, developed some VERY COOL hardware to attach to the phone and Apple shut them down COLD.. after they originally told the company that they could develop the hardware. Why? the hardware would fuck with apple's roadmap. thank you Nanny Apple. 2. Build a Copyleft version of the Iphone from scratch. pass me 400Million and I'll get right on it! But you can't just build the iPhone, you have to build what apple will ship 18 months from now to be competitive. 3. Do an Anti vendor port. I support mickey 100% in his anti vendor ports. This is one way to get open software on closed platforms. HOWEVER, by the time the port is done the hardware is obsolete ( by iPhone standards) and more importantly, the hardware hackers are left out. That said I think Mickey's approach is one that people should support with their time and effort. It will bear fruit over time. 4. Take an existing design ( like NanoNote) and over time add capability to it. Start small and simple. Open the design from the start. Allow the hardware community to mod the hardware ( and copy back design improvements) and give the software community a stable but evolving platform to develop on. So. #1. I didn't want to waste my time trying to talk apple into destroying their business. #2. I didnt have 400 Million dollars. #3. Mickey is going down his path. That's one front in the war. Put your efforts behind him. #4. I can start down the long long path of planting a seed and helping it grow. The beginning of that Journey ( #4) happens to be a cool little linux in my pocket. We've been contacted by people who want to turn it into a twitter client or jabber client. Will we do that? I'm not sure. But since the hardware will be copyleft, if SOMEBODY wants to take the design and optimize it for SMS or email, then 1.) the community will have another device with Linux on it. 2) they won't be able to charge outrageous prices. 3 They'll have to copy back the design improvements. When they copy back designs then one can hope for network effects and the long journey gets some momentum. Many are missing the importance and the critical difference that Copyleft hardware brings. If you don't like the fact that nanonote doesnt have a touch screen then, take the design files add a touch screen, copy back the design. If you have money, then get that design built and sell it. Qi-hardware won't complain. Why? because the community will have more choice about what to buy. If somebody, for example, really really thinks that clamshell sucks, then there is a ready solution. take our design, modify and improve it, copy back the improvements, build the thing and let the market decide. In short, I think the only effective way I have of competing on the hardware side is by applying the principles of Copyleft. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:27 AM, john jptmo...@gmail.com wrote: Actually one of the things I would like to do with a NanoNote is turn it into a dedicated Twitter client! I think opinion will always be divided on form factor. I have owned many devices from the Psion Series II through to the iPhone but I still like Zaurus clamshell designs. I also like the idea of a tiny Linux computer in my pocket or even on a key chain. I don't see the progression as trying to compete with the iPhone but to look at new areas such as hackable wearable computing. Thus I am interested in seeing things get smaller and cheaper and more hackable and not getting more shiny! John. 2009/7/24 Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de: [snip] Psion Plc. invent the clamshell and set the top-level of usable keyboard verses form-factor with Series 3 twenty years ago. We are in the SMS/twitter age now. Some vitual keyboard with multi-touch usability is sufficient. People who want to write full sentences buy a pencil with white paper. In general, what advantage does the NanoNote have to an Iphone with Linux installed ? Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: New Open Hardware company
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: Do you know other free 3D tools? http://irc.esben-stien.name/mediawiki/index.php/NURBS -- Esben Stien is b...@e s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Am 21.07.2009 um 22:52 schrieb steven mosher: Glad you noticed that Werner. When we went over the keyboard vi was on my mind. So next year on April 1st the company will be relaunched as vi- hardware :) Some corollary: vi = vi-ntage Real programmers do everything in vi (e.g. http://hulubei.net/tudor/humor/programmers.html ) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 08:47:47AM -0700, steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Heh, it seems like I'm not in your target sets, but good luck in this venture! :) Rui -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tuesday 21 July 2009 17:24:56 Shaz wrote: We (academic RnD) need a community effort and an effort that can compete with iPhone and Windows mobiles. OHA and LIMO kind of efforts but that are not as free as freedom and sort of not really open :) Can't this community aim at working at that level like we have Ubuntu and Fedora on PC platfrorms. So why not have devices that run FSO's stack and compete with WindowsCE and iPhone? Why do my team want to use Android and why am I considering running FSO on HTC devices? I want to use something of the sort you guys make ... that is truely open and promoting freedom but it needs to have a technological competitive edge. And I think their are many who will think the same even if we are not capable of influencing this community. Full ACK. We (FSO Team) has eyes wide open for any potential new hardware capable of running our middleware, however all the anti-vendor-ports have serious showstoppers right now. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Yes, that would be a great april fools joke. Vintage is very trendy http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10021523-1.html hehe Werner, small keyboards, vi. It's an inside joke. Or rather a hat tip to a good man, great programmer, and founder of OM. On that note, it's not kosher to use this list to discuss OT things. We appreciate and welcome your thoughtful point of view. We've added your projects to our blogroll, so we should continue discussions there On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 21.07.2009 um 22:52 schrieb steven mosher: Glad you noticed that Werner. When we went over the keyboard vi was on my mind. So next year on April 1st the company will be relaunched as vi- hardware :) Some corollary: vi = vi-ntage Real programmers do everything in vi (e.g. http://hulubei.net/tudor/humor/programmers.html ) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Thanks for your kind words. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.orgwrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 08:47:47AM -0700, steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Heh, it seems like I'm not in your target sets, but good luck in this venture! :) Rui -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
One thing is not clear to me - does the NanoNote have a touchscreen (in addition to QWERTY) or not? Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 17:47 schrieb steven mosher: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
no touch screen. I've got a post on features coming out tommorrow On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: One thing is not clear to me - does the NanoNote have a touchscreen (in addition to QWERTY) or not? Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 17:47 schrieb steven mosher: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
AFAIK no it don't have it in the first version. 2009/7/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org: One thing is not clear to me - does the NanoNote have a touchscreen (in addition to QWERTY) or not? Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 17:47 schrieb steven mosher: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 4:18 PM, GNUtoo gnu...@no-log.org wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 08:47 -0700, steven mosher wrote: It would be a great device...It has usb-2.0...wow(I hope it works fine...not like on my bug device( http://www.buglabs.net/ ) where most of the USB device I have work...but not my usb tv card) but...unfortunately it has 320x240 screen and only 32M of ram...ouch...I've a 320x240 screen on my bug device and it's so small...I have problem with some applications...and is not very comfortable to use. Are 32M of ram sufficient for a GUI like illume but without the FSO+SHR stack? But in another hand I saw that there are future devices in preparation...a bit like for GTA01 and freerunner Another problem would be the lack of wifi... We are investigating a microSD wifi card. The driver is GPL. We will let you all know the outcome But wait a second...it has microsd...it would makes a great ogg player... Yes it would. maybe it could do tv too(with USB 2.0 tv card) But I wonder how usable it is as a a general purpose computer By the way will the micro-sd be removable...what would be the costs and the size compared to the openpandora(If I ever buy one I won't use the 3d because it's proprietary,unmaintained(so old kernel) etc...) Yes the microSD is remove able. the size? check the product page on qi-hardware. the price? Depends on peoples reaction. $99 is not out of reach if we hit the right volumes, but for now plan on around $149. And what would be the battery life? Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
opps forgot battery life. Michael shiloh has my unit. When I get some time I'll just test it. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 4:18 PM, GNUtoo gnu...@no-log.org wrote: On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 08:47 -0700, steven mosher wrote: It would be a great device...It has usb-2.0...wow(I hope it works fine...not like on my bug device( http://www.buglabs.net/ ) where most of the USB device I have work...but not my usb tv card) but...unfortunately it has 320x240 screen and only 32M of ram...ouch...I've a 320x240 screen on my bug device and it's so small...I have problem with some applications...and is not very comfortable to use. Are 32M of ram sufficient for a GUI like illume but without the FSO+SHR stack? But in another hand I saw that there are future devices in preparation...a bit like for GTA01 and freerunner Another problem would be the lack of wifi... We are investigating a microSD wifi card. The driver is GPL. We will let you all know the outcome But wait a second...it has microsd...it would makes a great ogg player... Yes it would. maybe it could do tv too(with USB 2.0 tv card) But I wonder how usable it is as a a general purpose computer By the way will the micro-sd be removable...what would be the costs and the size compared to the openpandora(If I ever buy one I won't use the 3d because it's proprietary,unmaintained(so old kernel) etc...) Yes the microSD is remove able. the size? check the product page on qi-hardware. the price? Depends on peoples reaction. $99 is not out of reach if we hit the right volumes, but for now plan on around $149. And what would be the battery life? Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Ouch! So you need to connect a mouse that is larger than the device to position any scrollbars or press buttons? Or does it have a large enough trackpad somewhere? What I wonder is how it will compare to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipit_Wireless_Messenger_(Z2) and its community project - it appears also to be quite open - but not free(dom): http://linux.zipitwireless.com/ Nikolaus Am 21.07.2009 um 08:47 schrieb steven mosher: no touch screen. I've got a post on features coming out tommorrow On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: One thing is not clear to me - does the NanoNote have a touchscreen (in addition to QWERTY) or not? Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 17:47 schrieb steven mosher: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Ouch! So you need to connect a mouse that is larger than the device to position any scrollbars or press buttons? Or does it have a large enough trackpad somewhere? There is a 4 way key that can be used for up/down/right/left. etc . And an additional key for up and down. ( or vol+- ) Not sure where you got the mouse idea. What I wonder is how it will compare to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipit_Wireless_Messenger_(Z2) and its community project - it appears also to be quite open - but not free(dom): http://linux.zipitwireless.com/ And it locks you into a service plan. Not much point in comparing apples and oranges. http://linux.zipitwireless.com/ Nikolaus Am 21.07.2009 um 08:47 schrieb steven mosher: no touch screen. I've got a post on features coming out tommorrow On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: One thing is not clear to me - does the NanoNote have a touchscreen (in addition to QWERTY) or not? Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 17:47 schrieb steven mosher: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Am 21.07.2009 um 10:52 schrieb steven mosher: On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Ouch! So you need to connect a mouse that is larger than the device to position any scrollbars or press buttons? Or does it have a large enough trackpad somewhere? There is a 4 way key that can be used for up/down/right/left. etc . And an additional key for up and down. ( or vol+- ) Not sure where you got the mouse idea. That is my own view (TM) what is needed to make it useable. Have you ever tried to operate a UI with the mouse-pointer paradigm through arrow keys? So I expect that someone needs to write is a complete UI stack for arrow-key-only operation. Plus applications. No compatibility to most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. What I wonder is how it will compare to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipit_Wireless_Messenger_(Z2) and its community project - it appears also to be quite open - but not free(dom): http://linux.zipitwireless.com/ And it locks you into a service plan. Not much point in comparing apples and oranges. Hint: they have approx. 3 or 4 years experience with this device class and users of such devices. And they may have an (economic) reason to offer that with a service plan... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
inlined On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.orgwrote: Am 21.07.2009 um 10:52 schrieb steven mosher: On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Ouch! So you need to connect a mouse that is larger than the device to position any scrollbars or press buttons? Or does it have a large enough trackpad somewhere? There is a 4 way key that can be used for up/down/right/left. etc . And an additional key for up and down. ( or vol+- ) Not sure where you got the mouse idea. That is my own view (TM) what is needed to make it useable. useable as? Have you ever tried to operate a UI with the mouse-pointer paradigm through arrow keys? Yup. Size of the screen plays a role in this as does the application. So I expect that someone needs to write is a complete UI stack for arrow-key-only operation. Plus applications. No compatibility to most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. not so sure about that. I tend not to underestimate the creativity of software developers. What I wonder is how it will compare to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipit_Wireless_Messenger_(Z2) and its community project - it appears also to be quite open - but not free(dom): http://linux.zipitwireless.com/ And it locks you into a service plan. Not much point in comparing apples and oranges. Hint: they have approx. 3 or 4 years experience with this device class and users of such devices. And they may have an (economic) reason to offer that with a service plan... Yes, of course. But I think it serves no useful purpose to compare devices that are sold on a different basis for different reasons. Service plans, as we all know, help to subsidize the hardware. So for example, I have to live with my ATT phone for 2 years before I can upgrade it. For me an unlocked feature phone is superior to locked smart phone. Why? because my principles put freedom ahead of technology. Let me put it another way.. What Qi hardware is about is changing the way design is done, just as you encouraged us to.. We start with the NanoNote and then we open that device, the hardware the schematics, the roadmap. So, in essence we are not just selling a device. Not merely putting linux on a device and calling it open. We too are selling a service. That service is open hardware and open roadmap. We are doing everything the community asked us to do while we were at OM. These are our important check boxes: GPL the code, open the schematics,upstream the kernel, Open the roadmap process. Those aren't product features, those are service guarantees. As members of the community when we start down the path of comparing closed devices to open devices and partially open devices to open devices we get our principles out of order. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:47 PM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. This is good news. Congrats and good luck. By the way how are you guys planning to go along with OpenMoko efforts?Are the hardware efforts in parallel to openMoko community or OpenMoko community decided hardware will be taken care of by your company. The software stacks are the same as much as I can comprehend from the thread. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Shaz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-) Historical note: once I had Linux run on my Psion S5 and took it to a conference. The UI consisted of eight virtual consoles with a shell each, with whatever I chose to run there - typically a vi, so I could switch from taking notes on various topics just by changing consoles. Despite the device's many shortcomings, the system felt amazingly productive, almost on par with the HP-100LX. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Shaz, (cross-posting to develo...@lists.qi-hardware.com, if you have more Qi-specific questions please ask me over there) This is good news. Congrats and good luck. By the way how are you guys planning to go along with OpenMoko efforts? Both Openmoko and Qi believe in free technology, so for all of us it's great if there are more players playing by the same rules. The same is true for gta02-core, the University of Sao Paolo, etc. I wish Openmoko success with Project B or any future projects that may be coming. Sean has reorganized the company, but I'm sure he will come back stronger and will have a few surprises for us! Also don't count out the FreeRunner yet, the development activity in this forum shows it. It remains the most interesting mobile Linux development device on the market right now, by far! Everybody - buy more of them and keep developing, the best pieces of what you are developing will find their way into free alternatives to the corporate consumer electronics giants we have around us right now. At the same time I hope Openmoko the company and community wish Qi Hardware well, because at the very least, even if we fail, we had some fun and contributed more bits and pieces to the pool of free technology. I think the breakthrough in this will happen for sure, only question is when. Are the hardware efforts in parallel to openMoko community Openmoko published the schematics in PDF form, plus some parts of the electrical layout (netlist, footprints). gta02-core goes one step further and uses a free tool, KiCAD, for all electrical design. There are not many free EDA tools out there, so it was natural for Qi to follow Werner's leadership in selecting a tool. So Qi will use KiCAD as well, and our original KiCAD files will be live on the web from day 1 (they are already, www.github.com/adamwang). If Werner would change the tools he uses for gta02-core, Qi Hardware would seriously consider doing the same. We would not compromise on the degree of freedom, however (I doubt Werner would do that either :-)) I think the most important is that we stay close to each other in the tools and file formats we are using, contribute to a common pool of libraries (www.kicadlib.org), etc. There is _HUGE_ room for optimization in the hardware industry, the dregree of standardization is depressingly low for me. For mechanical design, it's even harder. Werner thinks HeeksCAD is the best candidate, so Qi is looking into that now. Our mechanical engineer Tully (ex-OM as well) has found some serious problems with HeeksCAD already, that he says prohibit him from doing effective work to prepare for plastic injection. Oh well... So on the mechanical tool, same thing, we want something free, and we will follow Werner's leadership or ask him for advice if we are ahead of gta02-core in some area. OpenMoko community decided hardware will be taken care of by your company Definitely possible. That's one reason we are staying close to the free tools and file formats Werner has chosen for gta02-core. Making a smartphone is a terribly hard job. I just come from 2 years of round-the-clock work of doing it. So I really appreciate that for now Werner keeps the momentum, the University of Sao Paolo (and actually 1 or 2 others) have shown up to try to produce them. More power to them! But later on, definitely, it is imaginable that Qi Hardware will produce free gta02-core phones. Talk to Steve about the roadmap. The software stacks are the same as much as I can comprehend from the thread. We try, but calling them 'the same' right now would not be correct. We will probably use u-boot, Linux kernel of course. For our own images, we will try to use OpenWrt initially, not OpenEmbedded. We try to get Debian running well, so basically we want to have Debian if you want full flexibility, and OpenWrt if you quickly want to cook up an image targeted at a particular use case or user. d-bus, Python. Above that it becomes less clear. One reason is that the first generation device has no RF. Once we have RF, I can tell you in general I prefer FSO over Android any time. More flexible, more maintainable, more modular. But that's just me and we have to find out over time what the people that are interested in our devices want. Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 04:41:34PM +0600, Shaz wrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:47 PM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. This is good news. Congrats and good luck. By the way how are you guys planning to go along with OpenMoko efforts?Are the hardware efforts in parallel to openMoko community or OpenMoko community decided hardware will be taken care of by your company. The software stacks are the same as much as I can comprehend from the thread. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list
Re: New Open Hardware company
Werner, you can mark my words - I am becoming a real mutt fan now. Unless someone else is faster, I will port mutt over to the NanoNote and use it as my offline email device :-) Next time I come visit you in Buenos Aires this will work! Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 08:27:02AM -0300, Werner Almesberger wrote: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-) Historical note: once I had Linux run on my Psion S5 and took it to a conference. The UI consisted of eight virtual consoles with a shell each, with whatever I chose to run there - typically a vi, so I could switch from taking notes on various topics just by changing consoles. Despite the device's many shortcomings, the system felt amazingly productive, almost on par with the HP-100LX. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Am 21.07.2009 um 13:27 schrieb Werner Almesberger: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-) I have a desktop machine with vi (vim, pico, ...) and a real GUI text editor to choose. I find myself to use vi only on remote machines with ssh connection. Never on localhost. Well, this is not proper user requirements research, but a first indication... Historical note: once I had Linux run on my Psion S5 and took it to a conference. The UI consisted of eight virtual consoles with a shell each, with whatever I chose to run there - typically a vi, so I could switch from taking notes on various topics just by changing consoles. Despite the device's many shortcomings, the system felt amazingly productive, almost on par with the HP-100LX. When taking notes on conferences. I am regularily using my good old C3100. I really like the combination of QWERTY, small pen + touch screen to type, select text, scroll through documents etc. This gives magnitudes of higher productivity than any vi and multiple shells ever can (on a Zaurus you can even test and compare both approaches). The HP100 was a really cool device when it came out (approx. 1992). And worked well. So I get the (hopefully wrong) impression that the current focus of Qi-Hardware is to imitate vintage computers... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Christoph, wow I like your list! Old mistakes: #1 Believing in the community? No comment. #2 Not only do we 'announce' products that are not for sale, but in addition we have an open roadmap and design the products based on community feedback. #3 We don't need an MPEG-patent license because we don't want to play patent- encumbered data formats, and we will try everything to engineer around such patents. We want to have the best Ogg Theora experience out-of-the-box. The whole point of our project is to bring people together that believe in free software and free content. If you are not in that group no reason to be depressed :-) (I hope you spare us all another rant about Openmoko Sisvel) #4 I'm not sure whether we 'aim VAR' or not. Maybe Steve does? New mistakes: #1 Dr. Schaller already called it 'vintage hardware'. I have to say I love this idea, even though the NanoNote hardly fits. We focus on freedom anyway, not technology. #2 made in China - don't you think the naming is genius? I love the Ben, Ya, Mu and Guo series. A little Chinese class for all of us :-) If you can only associate China with crap, that's unfortunate indeed. The truth is, same as the FreeRunner, production of our devices will be in China for the foreseeable future. RD in Taiwan. #3 My Blackberry keyboard beats everything else. Not sure we get that good, but I take this as a valid point, we want to produce good quality. Thanks for your feedback! Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 02:44:00PM +0200, Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, my thoughts to Qi / NanoBook: Mistakes repeated from Openmoko times: 1. you believe too much in the community. 2. you announce products which are not exitant for sales. 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. 4. you dont aim VAR. New mistakes: 1. you base on old-fashioned hardware (Zaurus was state-of-the-art, a hugh community existed, although Sharp did not give attention to it at all) 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete, there is no small AND useable physical keyboard Anyway I wish you best success with your effords, Steve, I really do. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Wolfgang Spraulwolfg...@qi-hardware.com wrote: Shaz, (cross-posting to develo...@lists.qi-hardware.com, if you have more Qi-specific questions please ask me over there) This is good news. Congrats and good luck. By the way how are you guys planning to go along with OpenMoko efforts? Both Openmoko and Qi believe in free technology, so for all of us it's great if there are more players playing by the same rules. The same is true for gta02-core, the University of Sao Paolo, etc. I wish Openmoko success with Project B or any future projects that may be coming. Sean has reorganized the company, but I'm sure he will come back stronger and will have a few surprises for us! Also don't count out the FreeRunner yet, the development activity in this forum shows it. It remains the most interesting mobile Linux development device on the market right now, by far! Everybody - buy more of them and keep developing, the best pieces of what you are developing will find their way into free alternatives to the corporate consumer electronics giants we have around us right now. At the same time I hope Openmoko the company and community wish Qi Hardware well, because at the very least, even if we fail, we had some fun and contributed more bits and pieces to the pool of free technology. I think the breakthrough in this will happen for sure, only question is when. Are the hardware efforts in parallel to openMoko community Openmoko published the schematics in PDF form, plus some parts of the electrical layout (netlist, footprints). gta02-core goes one step further and uses a free tool, KiCAD, for all electrical design. There are not many free EDA tools out there, so it was natural for Qi to follow Werner's leadership in selecting a tool. So Qi will use KiCAD as well, and our original KiCAD files will be live on the web from day 1 (they are already, www.github.com/adamwang). If Werner would change the tools he uses for gta02-core, Qi Hardware would seriously consider doing the same. We would not compromise on the degree of freedom, however (I doubt Werner would do that either :-)) I think the most important is that we stay close to each other in the tools and file formats we are using, contribute to a common pool of libraries (www.kicadlib.org), etc. There is _HUGE_ room for optimization in the hardware industry, the dregree of standardization is depressingly low for me. +1 for Qi!!! :) I love the idea to some good Electronic Engineers choose KiCAD and test it in depth, this is going to give us a really OpenSource alternative to all the propitary tools for electrical design. For mechanical design, it's even harder. Werner thinks HeeksCAD is the best candidate, so Qi is looking into that now. Our mechanical engineer Tully (ex-OM as well) has found some serious problems with HeeksCAD already, that he says prohibit him from doing effective work to prepare for plastic injection. Oh well... So on the mechanical tool, same thing, we want something free, and we will follow Werner's leadership or ask him for advice if we are ahead of gta02-core in some area. This a surprise to me, as i didn't know this mechanical tool. OpenMoko community decided hardware will be taken care of by your company Definitely possible. That's one reason we are staying close to the free tools and file formats Werner has chosen for gta02-core. Making a smartphone is a terribly hard job. I just come from 2 years of round-the-clock work of doing it. So I really appreciate that for now Werner keeps the momentum, the University of Sao Paolo (and actually 1 or 2 others) have shown up to try to produce them. More power to them! But later on, definitely, it is imaginable that Qi Hardware will produce free gta02-core phones. Talk to Steve about the roadmap. How about the Qi roadmap? ;) The software stacks are the same as much as I can comprehend from the thread. We try, but calling them 'the same' right now would not be correct. We will probably use u-boot, Linux kernel of course. For our own images, we will try to use OpenWrt initially, not OpenEmbedded. We try to get Debian running well, so basically we want to have Debian if you want full flexibility, and OpenWrt if you quickly want to cook up an image targeted at a particular use case or user. d-bus, Python. Above that it becomes less clear. One reason is that the first generation device has no RF. Once we have RF, I can tell you in general I prefer FSO over Android any time. More flexible, more maintainable, more modular. I'd like to give that machine in OE. I need to read Qi's devel ml. snip And of course: GOOD LUCK!! Regards -- ___ Rafael Campos o0 Methril 0o http://openblog.methril.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
#2 Not only do we 'announce' products that are not for sale, but in addition we have an open roadmap and design the products based on community feedback. A comment on this: Of course designing a product with as much input and feedback from your community of customers is important. But when I say customers here, I speak in the broadest possible terms: - developers - end users - Channels (VARs, Distributors, Resellers) Wolfgang has announced several goals of Qi, a main goal being that of openness and the support of Ogg formats. This may be in conflict with goals of his channels, to be able to support both Ogg and mp3, and therefore reach a large enough marketplace to justify selling the product. This may mean that the product sells in the tens of thousands instead of the millions. That may be fine as long as it meets the other goals of Qi and the people that invest time and money in Qi, including manufacturers and distributors. Fortunately the mp3 issue (as a continued example) can be met other ways. Since the designs are open, the addition of an mp3 codec by a VAR (and payment of that royalty in jurisdictions where it is required) is something that could be done even without any effort by the open community or Qi. But the issue has to be communicated and understood, the solution has to be planned. IMHO the creation of an add-on package by Qi for mp3 and other royalty-bearing codecs would be something useful for their customers, and would call attention to the fact that these codecs are not free either as in Freedom nor as in Beer. I have seen lots of people communicate congratulations to the new company and I too wish them success. Part of that congratulations should be the honest appraisal of their plans so they meet their goals. Part of that is helping them get feedback from the community of their true customers, whoever those true customers are. Warmest regards, maddog ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Am Dienstag, 21. Juli 2009 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: So you need to connect a mouse that is larger than the device to position any scrollbars or press buttons? Or does it have a large enough trackpad somewhere? A pointing stick is much smaller... (And don't tell me a touchpad is better to use.) Martin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
maddog, thanks for your thoughtful reply! Fortunately the mp3 issue (as a continued example) can be met other ways. Since the designs are open, the addition of an mp3 codec by a VAR (and payment of that royalty in jurisdictions where it is required) is something that could be done even without any effort by the open community or Qi. But the issue has to be communicated and understood, the solution has to be planned. IMHO the creation of an add-on package by Qi for mp3 and other royalty-bearing codecs would be something useful for their customers, and would call attention to the fact that these codecs are not free either as in Freedom nor as in Beer. Perfectly fine. Nothing is more important than clarity, and professional work. I do agree with some of Christoph's criticism in how Openmoko handled the MP3 situation back then. I too tried my best but wasn't satisfied with my results. It was a nasty experience being attacked by one of these critters. Having said that, both Openmoko and Qi have learnt from it (Christoph too I think), and hopefully we can be smarter going forward and focus our energies towards doing GOOD THINGS that make us happy. What you describe there maddog is something I can subscribe to immediately. If anybody wants an 'official' statement of Qi patents or Qi patented codecs, please ask Steve over in the Qi developer list. He will word something that can stand the test of time, which I cannot. Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:25:21AM -0400, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: #2 Not only do we 'announce' products that are not for sale, but in addition we have an open roadmap and design the products based on community feedback. A comment on this: Of course designing a product with as much input and feedback from your community of customers is important. But when I say customers here, I speak in the broadest possible terms: - developers - end users - Channels (VARs, Distributors, Resellers) Wolfgang has announced several goals of Qi, a main goal being that of openness and the support of Ogg formats. This may be in conflict with goals of his channels, to be able to support both Ogg and mp3, and therefore reach a large enough marketplace to justify selling the product. This may mean that the product sells in the tens of thousands instead of the millions. That may be fine as long as it meets the other goals of Qi and the people that invest time and money in Qi, including manufacturers and distributors. Fortunately the mp3 issue (as a continued example) can be met other ways. Since the designs are open, the addition of an mp3 codec by a VAR (and payment of that royalty in jurisdictions where it is required) is something that could be done even without any effort by the open community or Qi. But the issue has to be communicated and understood, the solution has to be planned. IMHO the creation of an add-on package by Qi for mp3 and other royalty-bearing codecs would be something useful for their customers, and would call attention to the fact that these codecs are not free either as in Freedom nor as in Beer. I have seen lots of people communicate congratulations to the new company and I too wish them success. Part of that congratulations should be the honest appraisal of their plans so they meet their goals. Part of that is helping them get feedback from the community of their true customers, whoever those true customers are. Warmest regards, maddog ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Rafael, (ex-OM as well) has found some serious problems with HeeksCAD already, that he says prohibit him from doing effective work to prepare for plastic injection. Oh well... This a surprise to me, as i didn't know this mechanical tool. Are you a mechanical engineer? Or do you know some that are interested in joining to work on a free design and/or can do some coding too? :-) There seems to be a lot of activity in HeeksCAD the last 6 months, so that's encouraging. It uses OpenCASCADE. Do you know other free 3D tools? Thanks, Wolfgang ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.comwrote: Christoph, wow I like your list! Old mistakes: #1 Believing in the community? No comment. #2 Not only do we 'announce' products that are not for sale, but in addition we have an open roadmap and design the products based on community feedback. We (academic RnD) need a community effort and an effort that can compete with iPhone and Windows mobiles. OHA and LIMO kind of efforts but that are not as free as freedom and sort of not really open :) Can't this community aim at working at that level like we have Ubuntu and Fedora on PC platfrorms. So why not have devices that run FSO's stack and compete with WindowsCE and iPhone? Why do my team want to use Android and why am I considering running FSO on HTC devices? I want to use something of the sort you guys make ... that is truely open and promoting freedom but it needs to have a technological competitive edge. And I think their are many who will think the same even if we are not capable of influencing this community. #3 We don't need an MPEG-patent license because we don't want to play patent- encumbered data formats, and we will try everything to engineer around such patents. We want to have the best Ogg Theora experience out-of-the-box. The whole point of our project is to bring people together that believe in free software and free content. If you are not in that group no reason to be depressed :-) (I hope you spare us all another rant about Openmoko Sisvel) #4 I'm not sure whether we 'aim VAR' or not. Maybe Steve does? New mistakes: #1 Dr. Schaller already called it 'vintage hardware'. I have to say I love this idea, even though the NanoNote hardly fits. We focus on freedom anyway, not technology. Technology is future and freedom is what we all want. We want to survive as well rather then be satisfied with freedom! #2 made in China - don't you think the naming is genius? I love the Ben, Ya, Mu and Guo series. A little Chinese class for all of us :-) If you can only associate China with crap, that's unfortunate indeed. The truth is, same as the FreeRunner, production of our devices will be in China for the foreseeable future. RD in Taiwan. Chinese products are cool ... depends upon the quality because they do make quality and crap both :) #3 My Blackberry keyboard beats everything else. Not sure we get that good, but I take this as a valid point, we want to produce good quality. This is technology. Thanks for your feedback! Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 02:44:00PM +0200, Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, my thoughts to Qi / NanoBook: Mistakes repeated from Openmoko times: 1. you believe too much in the community. 2. you announce products which are not exitant for sales. 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. 4. you dont aim VAR. New mistakes: 1. you base on old-fashioned hardware (Zaurus was state-of-the-art, a hugh community existed, although Sharp did not give attention to it at all) 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete, there is no small AND useable physical keyboard Anyway I wish you best success with your effords, Steve, I really do. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Shaz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Wolfgang Spraulwolfg...@qi-hardware.com wrote: For mechanical design, it's even harder. Werner thinks HeeksCAD is the best candidate, so Qi is looking into that now. Our mechanical engineer Tully (ex-OM as well) has found some serious problems with HeeksCAD already, that he says prohibit him from doing effective work to prepare for plastic injection. Oh well... So on the mechanical tool, same thing, we want something free, and we will follow Werner's leadership or ask him for advice if we are ahead of gta02-core in some area. I tried out HeeksCAD too. For me the showstopper is the complete lack of true boolean operation. It simply group the objects together, but dont really union them (in mathematical correct way). The best candidate (the most serious open source software) would be wildcat: http://wildcat-cad.blogspot.com/ http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/source/list However its author stopped working on it (unknown reason) from this january. If I were Qi Hardware I would seriously consider to donate to this project or even hire the developer (wildcat cad). Opensource 3D cad tool needs a kick to get starting. HeeksCAD is a simple frontend to opencascade.org. (I dont want to be negative here.) I definietly propose you to get touch with the wildcat developer. What is his plan (he is a phd student?), how you could help him to continue the development, and finish the basic showstopper features. Please consider to get contact with him. I do hope the best for you. The longer you stay in business the more improvements gets the free software engineering tools (cad, kicad, etc), what is a wonderful thing. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
The best candidate (the most serious open source software) would be wildcat: http://wildcat-cad.blogspot.com/ http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/source/list How about QCaD ( http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html ) or electric for electrical design ( http://www.staticfreesoft.com/productsFree.html )? Personally i do not know these tools well, but for me they look quite professional. -- Kind Regards Patryk Benderz IT Specialist Linux Registered User #377521 +48 22 538 6292 ERSTE Securities Polska S.A. ul. Królewska 16 Warszawa 00-103 KRS 065121 NIP 526-10-27-638 REGON 011136053 Kapitał akcyjny: 15.500.000 złotych (w pełni opłacony) This message and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any publication, transmission or other use of the information by a person or entity other than the intended addressee is prohibited. If you receive this in error please contact the sender and delete the material. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions as a result of the transmission. Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Patryk Benderzpatryk.bend...@esp.pl wrote: The best candidate (the most serious open source software) would be wildcat: http://wildcat-cad.blogspot.com/ http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/source/list How about QCaD ( http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html ) Free QCad is 2D only. For mechanical purpose we need 3D cad tool. or electric for electrical design ( http://www.staticfreesoft.com/productsFree.html )? For electrical design the decision is already made, and serious work had been done in it: KiCad No need to further research for electrical program. Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
inlined On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Shaz shazal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:47 PM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. This is good news. Congrats and good luck. By the way how are you guys planning to go along with OpenMoko efforts? the OM project is now a community effort. I continue to devote my spare time to helping out those I can in ways I can. mostly that's trying to find employment for ex employees or create opportunities for them. Are the hardware efforts in parallel to openMoko community or OpenMoko community decided hardware will be taken care of by your company. Not sure I understand this. The only hw related project is GTA02 core. werner's project. The software stacks are the same as much as I can comprehend from the thread. No. The Qi hardware only comes with a kernel. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Shaz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:47:01PM -0700, steven mosher wrote: no touch screen. I've got a post on features coming out tommorrow Perhaps someone figures out how to retrofit a touch screen. Here's an example of doing so on the Eee PC: http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Internal_Upgrades#Touch_screen -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 08:47:47AM -0700, steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. Congratulations on getting there! http://www.qi-hardware.com/ LOL. My first thought was quarter-inch hardware. :-) I suspect many of the people attracted by the hardware keyboard of the ben-NanoNote will be looking to replace the 320x240 screen with a 640x480 screen. That would also make it comply with the 80x24 character terminal size prescribed in the Linux kernel coding style. I was going to ask how many hours of kernel compilation the battery lasts for, but 32 MB is on the short side for that. People can go on for eons about the choice of CPU. My only real gripe with the MIPS is the lack of a register+register addressing mode. Apart from that, it an anonymous RISC architecture. The PowerPC has the rlw(i)nm(i) rotate left word (immediate) and mask(ed insert) swiss army knife kind of instruction that you wouldn't expect to find in a RISC architecture. But it executes in one cycle, so who gives a damn? Pre-update addressing is available. The PA-RISC has only rotate right instructions and one of the least readable sets of instruction mnemonics I've seen. The Alpha was an early adopter of a 64-bit word size that still hasn't shown a major advantage over 32 bits. The Sparc has windowed registers and delayed branches. Try showing a loop disassembly where the loop counter is incremented after the branch to someone who doesn't know about delayed branch instructions. :-) The ARM is the odd man out: Predicated execution, an implicit shift/rotate in most instructions, complex addressing modes including auto-increment/decrement and only 16 general purpose registers where 32 is the norm. Probably a good match for an assembler level programmer with an m68k background. The average Python scripter will be unaware of any such differences. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Thanks christoph. Please feel free to sign up over on the developer list at qi and post comments there. Inlined repsonses. On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.dewrote: Hi, my thoughts to Qi / NanoBook: Mistakes repeated from Openmoko times: 1. you believe too much in the community. Guilty. 2. you announce products which are not exitant for sales. The first version of the NanoNote will be available for sale this fall. The Design files were released in early July. I will have marketing samples in a couple of weeks. Then we can order the product and be ready for shipping in 45 days or so, provided that the kernel is in good shape. WRT the follow on products. It is our intention to announce roadmaps in the most open way we can imagine. So, if we collectively decide that a touchscreen would be nice to add, then that can be investigated. A second LCD on the top of the case to see incoming calls or msgs, that too. A different keyboard? more connectivity, of course. 3. you got no MPEG-patent licences. We don't need them. I'll take MPLA as an example. At a previous company I shipped hardware with Mpeg capability ( could do decode) but with no software. The software was sold separately. I did this with the full knowledge and consent of the patent holder. The situation is different for companies that have already violated a patent. 4. you dont aim VAR. We target developers, including VARS. New mistakes: 1. you base on old-fashioned hardware (Zaurus was state-of-the-art, a hugh community existed, although Sharp did not give attention to it at all) We had a choice between two challenges: A. Select existing proven hardware and work with the community to shape it into what we collectively want it to be following the principles of freedom B. Design something new from scratch. Having made mistake B before, now we choose mistake A. 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. 3. the PDA clam-shell form factor is obsolete, there is no small AND useable physical keyboard It's funny. I spent about a month showing the device to people in San Francisco. Every one of them was an Iphone user ( ok one owned a blackberry ) Not a single one commented negatively about the clamshell. Most of them made comments about things I hadn't considered.. not having to worry about scratching screens, not having to buy a cover to prevent scratches, they liked the weight and feel, loved the size of the keyboard (hated their touch screen keyboard ). The keyboard is bigger and has more keys than my samsung phone keyboard which is perfectly useable.. not for writing novels of course. Anyways I continue to see clamshell designs in the marketplace, of one form or another. Some people prefer it. I have a touchscreen phone ( Android dev platform) hate the keyboard. a couple clamshell devices, my samsung slider, and a phone that has two keyboard that slide out. When I look at the mechanical design of these devices I think about wine cork pullers. Huh? Did you ever notice how many different design approaches there were to wine cork pullers? You have the kind that just corkscrew in. You got ones that slide two thin pieces of metal past the cork. You've got corkscrews kinds that also hold the bottle in place. bunches of designs! why? because no design is optimal even for the simple task of pulling out a cork, much less complicated tasks like driving or communicating or playing music or..And of course everyone wanted different colors because they could not see that black was optimal. hehe. Anyway I wish you best success with your effords, Steve, I really do. Thank you. Christoph, that means a lot to me. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/21 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. Which confirms Christoph's point :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Glad you noticed that Werner. When we went over the keyboard vi was on my mind. generally I tried to think of the things I could do with the device rather than the things one could not obviously do. On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Werner Almesberger wer...@openmoko.orgwrote: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and ncurses. I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-) Historical note: once I had Linux run on my Psion S5 and took it to a conference. The UI consisted of eight virtual consoles with a shell each, with whatever I chose to run there - typically a vi, so I could switch from taking notes on various topics just by changing consoles. Despite the device's many shortcomings, the system felt amazingly productive, almost on par with the HP-100LX. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/21 Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm: 2009/7/21 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. Which confirms Christoph's point :-) LOL XD ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
hehe. glad somebody has a sense of humor. But seriously when I was kid made in japan meant crap, as a young adult made in taiwan meant crap ( there were some budding geniuses who felt Nvidia was DOOMED because they used TSMC ). To be sure if you do not control the quality at any manufacturing site you will get crap out. That's part of the reason why we decided to start with a device that had good quality. You can, as we have, scour china like marco polo, and return with silk. Or you can just buy from some guy in HK and get what your efforts deserve. On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fmwrote: 2009/7/21 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com 2. you base on made in China (synonym for crap in Europe) Iphone is made in China. Which confirms Christoph's point :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Laszlo, excellent link to wildcat, thanks! Free mechanical tools are the weakest part (aside from free IC design tools), so this may take a while until it becomes a real production option but it's definitely on the radar. I will follow up on wildcat in a little bit. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 05:44:06PM +0200, Laszlo KREKACS wrote: On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Wolfgang Spraulwolfg...@qi-hardware.com wrote: For mechanical design, it's even harder. Werner thinks HeeksCAD is the best candidate, so Qi is looking into that now. Our mechanical engineer Tully (ex-OM as well) has found some serious problems with HeeksCAD already, that he says prohibit him from doing effective work to prepare for plastic injection. Oh well... So on the mechanical tool, same thing, we want something free, and we will follow Werner's leadership or ask him for advice if we are ahead of gta02-core in some area. I tried out HeeksCAD too. For me the showstopper is the complete lack of true boolean operation. It simply group the objects together, but dont really union them (in mathematical correct way). The best candidate (the most serious open source software) would be wildcat: http://wildcat-cad.blogspot.com/ http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/source/list However its author stopped working on it (unknown reason) from this january. If I were Qi Hardware I would seriously consider to donate to this project or even hire the developer (wildcat cad). Opensource 3D cad tool needs a kick to get starting. HeeksCAD is a simple frontend to opencascade.org. (I dont want to be negative here.) I definietly propose you to get touch with the wildcat developer. What is his plan (he is a phd student?), how you could help him to continue the development, and finish the basic showstopper features. Please consider to get contact with him. I do hope the best for you. The longer you stay in business the more improvements gets the free software engineering tools (cad, kicad, etc), what is a wonderful thing. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
2009/7/20 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Congratulations on the launch of Qi Hardware! First thoughts: the space bar looks a little small.[1] That's a very minor quibble, though :) I've signed up to the mailing list and I'm looking forward to seeing what transpires from QiH. All best, Sam [1]http://www.qi-hardware.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ben-nanonote.png ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Congrats! Kudos for going clamshell! John. 2009/7/20 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
For the first device we wanted to be 100% sure that we had fully functioning hardware, so we left the ID alone, and just focused on a good keyboard layout ( given the keys we had) and getting linux to boot. If we start with that solid base and have a good engineering process then improving the device over time becomes a lot easier. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Sam Kuper sam.ku...@uclmail.net wrote: 2009/7/20 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Congratulations on the launch of Qi Hardware! First thoughts: the space bar looks a little small.[1] That's a very minor quibble, though :) I've signed up to the mailing list and I'm looking forward to seeing what transpires from QiH. All best, Sam [1]http://www.qi-hardware.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ben-nanonote.png ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Dnia 2009-07-20, pon o godzinie 08:47 -0700, steven mosher pisze: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new Not so far ago... you managed to start pretty quickly :) Congratulations! -- Kind Regards Patryk Benderz IT Specialist Linux Registered User #377521 +48 22 538 6292 ERSTE Securities Polska S.A. ul. Królewska 16 Warszawa 00-103 KRS 065121 NIP 526-10-27-638 REGON 011136053 Kapitał akcyjny: 15.500.000 złotych (w pełni opłacony) This message and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the addressee(s). Any publication, transmission or other use of the information by a person or entity other than the intended addressee is prohibited. If you receive this in error please contact the sender and delete the material. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions as a result of the transmission. Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
For the NanoNote line of products we will stick with Clamshell. That doesn't mean otherproduct lines would be under the same restriction, but if it's a NanoNote, then it's a clamshell. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:45 AM, john jptmo...@gmail.com wrote: Congrats! Kudos for going clamshell! John. 2009/7/20 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
You can read more here http://linux.com/news/embedded-mobile/mids/29263-openmoko-layoffs-lead-to-new-open-hardware-venture On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:45 AM, john jptmo...@gmail.com wrote: Congrats! Kudos for going clamshell! John. 2009/7/20 steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.com: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Congrats Steve! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
thx. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Kosa k...@piradio.org wrote: Congrats Steve! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
is there any reason for using mips? KP On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:27 AM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: thx. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Kosa k...@piradio.org wrote: Congrats Steve! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
There are two reasons, one pragmatic the other strategic. On the practical side we selected a device that we could open. So, of all the devices we looked at that could serve as the basis of a good roadmap, the device that presented itself was mips based. On the strategic side the Mips architecture is gaining a lot of traction in China. That doesn't mean we become a mips house Steve On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Kiam Peng Wee wee.kiamp...@orangeknob.com wrote: is there any reason for using mips? KP On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:27 AM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: thx. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Kosa k...@piradio.org wrote: Congrats Steve! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:47 PM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Sorry for being ignorant, but who are the target group? I, for myself would not buy a device like this. It resembles like the old manager calculator... (my mom had one like 15 years ago or so) It looks to me you are completely ignoring the world trend: More functions concentrate into less devices. People dont like to carry many things with them... So what would be used for this device? A dictionary? An ebook? (too small display) A calendar? If it is used for something specific, who will develop the (specific) software for it? I dont want to ruin the party, but looks to me you are ignoring the basics. Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Ah, you are using MIPS? Yes, digging around shows an Ingenic JZ4720. That is great since we already offer a low-cost Linux-Mini-Notebook (7'' screen, QWERTY WLAN) which uses the bigger brother JZ4730. We have Debian running on it and it is called Letux 400. And there is a small but nice community around such devices: http://projects.kwaak.net/twiki/bin/view/Epc700/WebHome http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/mipsbook-devel/ Nils has mostly completed a 2.6 kernel with Angstrom. So let me invite qi-hardware to support our project, Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 20:29 schrieb Kiam Peng Wee: is there any reason for using mips? KP Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Dear Steven, are you going to use the Loongson CPU for your MIPS architecture? I'm happily using a Lemote Fulong for more than one year with Debian and Slackware on it. MIPS is a great architecture and I am sure that it will have a bright future. Congratulations for your new company! Best regards, Giovanni On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 8:41 PM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: There are two reasons, one pragmatic the other strategic. On the practical side we selected a device that we could open. So, of all the devices we looked at that could serve as the basis of a good roadmap, the device that presented itself was mips based. On the strategic side the Mips architecture is gaining a lot of traction in China. That doesn't mean we become a mips house Steve On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Kiam Peng Wee wee.kiamp...@orangeknob.com wrote: is there any reason for using mips? KP On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:27 AM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: thx. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Kosa k...@piradio.org wrote: Congrats Steve! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture. Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Thanks for the comment. Perhaps you should repost it over on the blogs so everyone can benefit. See below. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Laszlo KREKACS laszlo.krekacs.l...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:47 PM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Sorry for being ignorant, but who are the target group? For the initial device the target audience is developers. Period. Going forward the roadmap will be shaped by the community. In the Open. I, for myself would not buy a device like this. It resembles like the old manager calculator... (my mom had one like 15 years ago or so) That's fine. The difference is you probably couldn't turn that old calculator into a picture viewer, or offline wikipedia device, or notepad, or music player, or plug in a Wifi adapter or have a say in the roadmap. But physically, yes, it looks like one of those. Don't judge a book they say. It looks to me you are completely ignoring the world trend: More functions concentrate into less devices. People dont like to carry many things with them... A couple points: All all times during the evolution of devices you see two trends: one trend toward the all in wonder and another trend toward appliances. MP3 is my favorite example. being there at the start we faced the same argument with one set of people ( in design) arguing that the PC was going to be the center of convergence. Another set saying the phone was going to be the center. A third set saying the game console would be the center. Another set arguing the palm pilot would be the center. In the midst of this was another group. We thought that a device dedicated to music would get traction. And a device dedicated to video etc etc. At one point ( long before the flip camera) we argued for a dedicated simple device for video recording. The point is there are always two movements: one movement toward integration ( swiss army knives) and another movement toward specialized devices. All that said, our road aims at enabling the type device you are talking about. Over time we will add more capability to the device. But we will start with something that WORKS and improve on that. Adding capability in a well disciplined manner so that developers don't have to struggle with hardware that is dodgy. So what would be used for this device? A dictionary? An ebook? (too small display) A calendar? The device we adopted ( and opened) had the following proprietary software on it. 1. games 2. MP3 player 3. Audio recording 4. Video (Mp4) player 5. Dictionaries 6. Photo viewer. 7. Notepad. 8. calculator. We have no intention of creating our own software to go on this device. The Community has plenty of applications it can put on the device. Or you could target putting open content ( like wikitravel or wikidictionary etc ) on the device. If it is used for something specific, who will develop the (specific) software for it? See above. I dont want to ruin the party, but looks to me you are ignoring the basics. I like to think we are embracing the basics. If we want to get to a device that has all the features you want, what is the best way to get there? If I told you that the first device we would build was going to have wifi and gps and touchscreen, and bluetooth, and 3G and 3D graphics and replace your iphone, you'd rightly throw the bullshit flag. Instead, we start with the basics. A device that works. From that foundation we can move forward and build more complex things. You can be a part of that, contribute thoughts, make critical comments, shape the future. Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Done. Drop mirko a line at mi...@qi-hardware.com and he will add you to the blog roll. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Ah, you are using MIPS? Yes, digging around shows an Ingenic JZ4720. That is great since we already offer a low-cost Linux-Mini-Notebook (7'' screen, QWERTY WLAN) which uses the bigger brother JZ4730. We have Debian running on it and it is called Letux 400. And there is a small but nice community around such devices: http://projects.kwaak.net/twiki/bin/view/Epc700/WebHome http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/mipsbook-devel/ Nils has mostly completed a 2.6 kernel with Angstrom. So let me invite qi-hardware to support our project, Nikolaus Am 20.07.2009 um 20:29 schrieb Kiam Peng Wee: is there any reason for using mips? KP Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
any general price range and is the usb port OTG for both client host? it looks neat and if the price is good, i'd mount one in my car for sensor gadget stuff ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On 7/20/09, David Ford da...@blue-labs.org wrote: any general price range and is the usb port OTG for both client host? Question++ I'm interested in programming *on* something like that, and my girlfriend is interested in learning programming when she see what I'm doing on my Freerunner ;) Keyboard seems to be ok for programming, so i'm generally interested. Cheers, dos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
I'm interested in programming *on* something like that, and my girlfriend is interested in learning programming when she see what I'm doing on my Freerunner ;) Keyboard seems to be ok for programming, so i'm generally interested. girlfriend++ Does she have a sister? :P ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
That's cool. It's kinda funny every female I have showed the device to wants one. And they alreadyown Iphones and blackberry's. perfect for my purse! weird I didnt expect that. One's learning PHP .. it would be her Personal Hack Pad. hehe. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak seba.d...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/20/09, David Ford da...@blue-labs.org wrote: any general price range and is the usb port OTG for both client host? Question++ I'm interested in programming *on* something like that, and my girlfriend is interested in learning programming when she see what I'm doing on my Freerunner ;) Keyboard seems to be ok for programming, so i'm generally interested. Cheers, dos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Hi Steve, Congratulations! Sounds like a very interesting project. The geek in me is say - W00t - when can I get one! Unfortunately, the product manager in me is sounding a bit more like Laszlo: raising questions like: What's the business model - are you targeting end-users, or are you trying to convince someone to OEM the design, customize it and market it to end-users? Personally I kinda hope you are targeting OEMs, although I don't see much of a mention of that on the website so far.If you are targeting end-users, it seems to me that you are falling into the same trap that OpenMoko did - building some cool hardware, and assuming that the software side will eventually happen. If however you have one or more visionary OEMs who will take your tech and build a compelling solution around it, that could be very interesting. I really believe that a device like this needs to have a seamless, well integrated hardware and software stack to be successful. For example, a device that a project manager inspecting a construction site could take with them and use to record the results of a site inspection could be very intersting.I'm not sure that the nano-note is the right form-factor for that, but something similar might work. My day job involves creating software for visual collaboration used across a wide range of industries - if you want to chat more about that, send me an email off list... Warren On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:47 AM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Warren Baird wjba...@alumni.uwaterloo.cawrote: Hi Steve, Congratulations! Sounds like a very interesting project. The geek in me is say - W00t - when can I get one! Yup. same reaction of every geek I've showed it to. Unfortunately, the product manager in me is sounding a bit more like Laszlo: raising questions like: What's the business model - The business model. basically this question is how do you monetize your activity and the answer is we make money by selling hardware that hardware will come with a linux kernel. are you targeting end-users, Directly we target developers, yes. The numbers we need are very modest. More modest than the number of freerunners for example. or are you trying to convince someone to OEM the design, I don't rule this out. At OM for example I had many requests for small changes to FR that we could not execut on. VARs as well. customize it and market it to end-users? Yes, that's an option as well. But not required in the basic business case. Personally I kinda hope you are targeting OEMs, although I don't see much of a mention of that on the website so far.If you are targeting end-users, it seems to me that you are falling into the same trap that OpenMoko did - building some cool hardware, and assuming that the software side will eventually happen. The trap was a bit more complicated than that. At OM we tried to do: 1. hardware design. 2. Our own distro. 3. Our own special applications ( diversity) 4. Promote particular toolkits I'll blog more about this at Qi, but this much was clear. There was and is plenty of good open source software. The difficulties in bring this to FR are detailed all to well here. So, basically we think that we should start by shipping stable hardware and good kernels. If we as a community cannot bring good end user apps to a solid foundation, then we will figure out what other barriers need to be brought down. If however you have one or more visionary OEMs who will take your tech and build a compelling solution around it, that could be very interesting. I really believe that a device like this needs to have a seamless, well integrated hardware and software stack to be successful. Yes, when we look at that problem we see two ways of solving it. 1. Trying to do everything ourselves-- hardware and software. 2. Focusing on key software partners. At OM, for example, the question should have been: do OM2009? or focus on SHR ( for example ) For example, a device that a project manager inspecting a construction site could take with them and use to record the results of a site inspection could be very intersting.I'm not sure that the nano-note is the right form-factor for that, but something similar might work. My day job involves creating software for visual collaboration used across a wide range of industries - if you want to chat more about that, send me an email off list... Just contact me through the developer list over at qi-hardware Warren On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:47 AM, steven mosher mosherste...@gmail.comwrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. http://www.qi-hardware.com/ Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. And so it has begun ... congratulations and good luck ! May the source be with you :-) - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Steven for the explanation. I do hope the best for your company. Done. Drop mirko a line at mi...@qi-hardware.com and he will add you to the blog roll. Is mirko the same Mirko Lindner who is used to work on paroli? I would like to see the team behind the project. Is it possible to have a short introduction interview with every member inside Qi company? Or is it the same tight-lipped policy as with Openmoko Co.? Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On 20 Jul 2009, at 22:47, Laszlo KREKACS wrote: On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM, steven moshermosherste...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Steven for the explanation. I do hope the best for your company. Done. Drop mirko a line at mi...@qi-hardware.com and he will add you to the blog roll. Is mirko the same Mirko Lindner who is used to work on paroli? Hehe, indeed :) I would like to see the team behind the project. Is it possible to have a short introduction interview with every member inside Qi company? Or is it the same tight-lipped policy as with Openmoko Co.? Check the qi blog. Especially http://www.qi-hardware.com/2009/07/01/ hello-world/ . Comment on the post if you have more questions :) Best regards, /mirko Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Thanks Werner, Your project is a great inspiration for us. A lot of people just want to walk away from the dream of a truly open phone or just mouth platitudes about turning things over to the community. You actually picked up the ball and got in the game. Your project is on the blog roll and I'll blog about it in the near future.. or invite you to blog Steve On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Werner Almesberger wer...@openmoko.orgwrote: steven mosher wrote: A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop by and say hello. And so it has begun ... congratulations and good luck ! May the source be with you :-) - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Last night the hairdresser told me he want to learn programming, even pay for training :) steven mosher wrote: That's cool. It's kinda funny every female I have showed the device to wants one. And they alreadyown Iphones and blackberry's. perfect for my purse! weird I didnt expect that. One's learning PHP .. it would be her Personal Hack Pad. hehe. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak seba.d...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/20/09, David Ford da...@blue-labs.org wrote: any general price range and is the usb port OTG for both client host? Question++ I'm interested in programming *on* something like that, and my girlfriend is interested in learning programming when she see what I'm doing on my Freerunner ;) Keyboard seems to be ok for programming, so i'm generally interested. Cheers, dos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-Open-Hardware-company-tp3289658p3291820.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Nice geek gadget!! (i also would like to have one) Do you have protypes and a working kernel? I could not stop my internal engieering questions!! ;) My mainly question, rather that what is the target audience, what do you have in mind when you design the NanoNote? Some Assistant? One important thing is that it has USB 2.0, and doesn't have the glamo:) Another important thing is MIPS!!! I only remember to develop some sw in MIPS at University in one assembler simulator (a MIPSR2000/3000). Other architecture to learn!! ;) Regards -- ___ Rafael Campos o0 Methril 0o http://openblog.methril.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
marterials from Xiangfu Liu: http://lists.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/developer/2009-July/03.html subscribe: http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer 2009/7/21 Rafael Campos (via Nabble) ml-user+18499-1338436...@n2.nabble.com: Nice geek gadget!! (i also would like to have one) Do you have protypes and a working kernel? I could not stop my internal engieering questions!! ;) My mainly question, rather that what is the target audience, what do you have in mind when you design the NanoNote? Some Assistant? One important thing is that it has USB 2.0, and doesn't have the glamo:) Another important thing is MIPS!!! I only remember to develop some sw in MIPS at University in one assembler simulator (a MIPSR2000/3000). Other architecture to learn!! ;) Regards -- ___ Rafael Campos o0 Methril 0o http://openblog.methril.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list commun...@... http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community View message @ http://n2.nabble.com/New-Open-Hardware-company-tp3289658p3292322.html To unsubscribe from Re: New Open Hardware company, click here. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-Open-Hardware-company-tp3289658p3292386.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Hi, Go ahead and report at qi-hardware, so I can share the answers with others. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Rafael Campos meth...@gmail.com wrote: Nice geek gadget!! (i also would like to have one) Do you have protypes and a working kernel? I could not stop my internal engieering questions!! ;) The device has been shipping for a while. What we have done is take that existing device, re layout the keyboard and start the process of getting a kernel up and working on it. The kernel is up and working and now comes the task of stabilizing it before shipping. My mainly question, rather that what is the target audience, what do you have in mind when you design the NanoNote? Some Assistant? We selected the device as a good point to start a roadmap. That is, it is just the beginning. A good place to start.. cpu, color screen, keyboard, storage. Going forward we work with the community to make that roadmap into a reality. One important thing is that it has USB 2.0, and doesn't have the glamo:) No glamo. check the website for a more in depth discussion of USB and SDIO Another important thing is MIPS!!! I only remember to develop some sw in MIPS at University in one assembler simulator (a MIPSR2000/3000). Other architecture to learn!! ;) Regards -- ___ Rafael Campos o0 Methril 0o http://openblog.methril.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 08:47 -0700, steven mosher wrote: It would be a great device...It has usb-2.0...wow(I hope it works fine...not like on my bug device( http://www.buglabs.net/ ) where most of the USB device I have work...but not my usb tv card) but...unfortunately it has 320x240 screen and only 32M of ram...ouch...I've a 320x240 screen on my bug device and it's so small...I have problem with some applications...and is not very comfortable to use. Are 32M of ram sufficient for a GUI like illume but without the FSO+SHR stack? But in another hand I saw that there are future devices in preparation...a bit like for GTA01 and freerunner Another problem would be the lack of wifi... But wait a second...it has microsd...it would makes a great ogg player...maybe it could do tv too(with USB 2.0 tv card) But I wonder how usable it is as a a general purpose computer By the way will the micro-sd be removable...what would be the costs and the size compared to the openpandora(If I ever buy one I won't use the 3d because it's proprietary,unmaintained(so old kernel) etc...) And what would be the battery life? Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
