Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Yeah, I have to agree with that. It seems the 2008.8 is still a bit buggy and incomplete for an everyday use. I'm back to Qtopia for now. Thanks. Mike Montour wrote: tokenwizard wrote: Ok, well as soon as I have time to deal with it I'll have to try and Frankenstein some type of power cable contraption to get this thing booted to the point the USB charge can kick in. Seems a little premature for such a function to kick in when the battery is only slightly less that half charged. Effectively, halving the battery capacity. More likely, whatever was telling you that it was half charged was mis-calibrated or had stopped updating. By the time the internal cutoff circuit activates, the battery is drained. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p806817.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Ok, well as soon as I have time to deal with it I'll have to try and Frankenstein some type of power cable contraption to get this thing booted to the point the USB charge can kick in. Seems a little premature for such a function to kick in when the battery is only slightly less that half charged. Effectively, halving the battery capacity. Guess it's back to my Sony Ericsson once more. :thinking: Michael Shiloh wrote: tokenwizard wrote: Well, I guess you guys were right about the battery. 0.02V!! What I don't get is how the hell the battery could go from almost half a charge to completely dead in the instant I plugged in the USB?? Sounds like the built-in under voltage protection circuit. When the voltage falls below a certain level it flips a switch to avoid total discharge, and as soon as it's charged above some level it flips back on. Yorick Moko wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:43 AM, tokenwizard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember.
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
tokenwizard wrote: Ok, well as soon as I have time to deal with it I'll have to try and Frankenstein some type of power cable contraption to get this thing booted to the point the USB charge can kick in. Seems a little premature for such a function to kick in when the battery is only slightly less that half charged. Effectively, halving the battery capacity. More likely, whatever was telling you that it was half charged was mis-calibrated or had stopped updating. By the time the internal cutoff circuit activates, the battery is drained. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:43 AM, tokenwizard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p782970.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I've had this problem before I removed the battery, waited a few minutes, inserted the battery again and
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
A short will do it. tokenwizard wrote: Well, I guess you guys were right about the battery. 0.02V!! What I don't get is how the hell the battery could go from almost half a charge to completely dead in the instant I plugged in the USB?? Yorick Moko wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:43 AM, tokenwizard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p782970.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p782970.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 18:43 -0700, tokenwizard wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it ... and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James Id still bet on the battery - try another to confirm. If the mains adaptor doesnt work, does the usb help? - (did for me at one event) Ive seen the battery go flat in a couple of hours with the FR too hot to touch Ive seen occasions when plugging in USB it never went to 500ma charge, and slowly discharged with only 100ma available which is less than the FR running draw Ive seen occasions where I plugged in the mains charger - and it didnt charge, again flattening the battery further until discovered and corrected. Currently everything seems to mostly work as it should (uboot/kernel updates!), but there is an element of randomness to when the next affliction strikes! BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
you may have the same problem I discovered some while back. When I wore my tester hat. Micheal may be able to help you. Micheal, can you assist here? or tony? tokenwizard wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Steve Mosher wrote: you may have the same problem I discovered some while back. When I wore my tester hat. Micheal may be able to help you. Micheal, can you assist here? or tony? There was a response (before Steve's) that suggested a battery issue. I agree with that, and would want first to confirm that the battery is not dead. Can you measure the battery voltage, or test with another battery? tokenwizard wrote: I have one for you... I have been using my freerunner for about three weeks now. I ordered it through Koolu.com as soon as it was possible and I got it about three weeks later. The OM2007 on it was next to useless so I updated and found a bit more functionality. Later I installed Qtopia and I really liked that most of the functionality was there, but I still wanted to run an OM distro, so I tried the ASU 2008.8. I really dislike where that one is going as far as the illume UI. So I went back to 2008.4 and kept it that way for a bit. TOday I plugged my phone into the USB on my PC to charge as I always have (while the phone was running) and the screen immediately went black. No, with this being a development phone, this didn't really phase me at first. This thing has seen its fair share of mysterious power issues. But this time was different. No matter what I do, I cannot get the damn thing to come back to life. I know it's not the battery because it was almost half full when I plugged it in. But I have tried holding the Power button for 10 seconds, and the Power/Aux and Aux/Power combos. I've tried these thing both with and without the AC adapter attached and after pulling the battery for about a minute. It seems as I have a dead phone now. I don't even hear that distinctive little hiss that you normally hear when you first press the Power button! Anybody seen this before?? James steve-2 wrote: I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
I have a tiny tiny head so all the hats fit. we are putting together a policy for people who bought from the openmoko store. there are several issues. We offer a 14 day DOA Warrenty and a 28 day warrenty for 10 packs. The issue is what does DOA mean? Dead on Arrival. If your GSM doesnt work, but getting a download fixes it? is that DOA? If your GSM doesnt work but getting a new card fixes it? is that DOA? same with GPS, did the software download fix it? If you send the phone back and it works fine, what to do? if you send back a phone and it works fine, who pays for shipping? Now in the US at retail you can return something if the sky is blue. We can't work that way and build a open source phone. well, we can but the cost of blue sky returns would have to be added to the phone. In the end, as micheal will tell you, I work every case. So, If you have a problem, email me or micheal. tell us that you tried the fixes we suggested. And we will work from there. Michael Shiloh wrote: ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? that's only part of the story! the stuff mokomakefile gets you is already prepared to be build with bitbakecie -- which does not mean that everything builds at all (frinst vlc fails completely because it does not find libpostproc and no other package does provide it, the provided ortp.pc is useless sinbce all packages i tried to compile that needed that file failed to accept it). last not least i am not sure how up-to-date teh stuff mokomakefile checks out is -- i often get packages with numbers lower than the actual packages offered by the feeds, but that might be caused by my setup. since development means to alter existing code or creating your own you need far more -- to alter code you need at least something called a layer or so (need to dug into the issue further) because mokomakefile or bitbake or whatver stubbornly refuses to update modified files. creating your own code means you need to create your own bitbake receipt and so and so on. someone (with a rather scandinavic name) posted a link a while ago to his blog entry building ipk-packages w/o mokomakefile, which might be an easier way to develop own stuff, i did not try it (yet). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Jay Vaughan, 2008-08-13 22:47:28 +0200 : Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. I'm more likely to provide *.deb, actually, but that's just because I'm an arrogant, smug, elitist Debian bastard (and not ashamed of it, either). Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? You didn't, as far as I know. You did, however, complain loudly about how it's hard to keep up with them with regards to code changes and build environments. Which is what I was replying to: there's a make target to update all of that in the MokoMakefile, so it's one command to type. the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. Choice in build systems isn't bad per se, as far as I know. And choice a definite bonus when it comes to distribution channels: I wouldn't want the official feeds to contain random contributed packages. I don't have a problem with people adding unofficial repositories and publishing the URLs, though. I do agree with the probably excessive multiplicity of targets, but my feeling is that this is going to settle down. OM2007.2 seems to have entered maintenance-only mode, I expect ASU/OM2008.8 to follow the same path, and I envision most of the momentum moving to FSO. As for the distribution system underneath, I'd be happy to see it migrate to Debian proper, since that would gain us the whole Debian repositories, build systems, tools and experience to build on, but maybe that's just me dreaming (although I'm quite impressed with the fact that the pkg-fso team has managed to prepare a working Debian-based image with FSO and Zhone in a few days). Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. Whoa, calm down. I do not assume you are a fool. I was just pointing out a discrepancy between your loud complaints about the barrier to entry, which looked scary to me, and how it's actually rather easy to setup a development environment. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. One more reason that NIH-syndrome is evil. Should have gone for Debian right at the start :-) (In order not to degenerate into a DSW, here are my own contributions so far: 1. a Python script to load and save contacts to files in 2007.2, and 2. a failed attempt at another script to switch from lock-and-suspend to lock-only when a call is active. You win hands down.) Roland. -- Roland Mas Why did the elephant cross the road? Because it was the chicken's day off. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
I'm more likely to provide *.deb, actually, but that's just because I'm an arrogant, smug, elitist Debian bastard (and not ashamed of it, either). yeah! that's the spirit! you don't have by chance a blog or so where you jot down your experiences with debian on fr? i think, i am going to try it this weekend. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
arne anka, 2008-08-14 14:24:58 +0200 : I'm more likely to provide *.deb, actually, but that's just because I'm an arrogant, smug, elitist Debian bastard (and not ashamed of it, either). yeah! that's the spirit! you don't have by chance a blog or so where you jot down your experiences with debian on fr? i think, i am going to try it this weekend. I have a blog, but I haven't started mentioning the FR on it yet. Nor have I started running Debian on the FR. OM2007.2 works for me, and I'm loathe to switch to something else until it stabilises a bit. Probably some time around FSO milestone 3. In the meantime, there is http://wiki.debian.org/pkg-fso. Roland. -- Roland Mas How does an octopus go into battle? Fully-armed. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
On Aug 13, 2008, at 7:51 AM, Olivier Berger wrote: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then try 2008.9 when it comes Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. BR, Pawel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. If we could get a list of people who are the *main* developers responsible for the contributions in the image, and if those people would then tell us other developers, reliably, how to catch up and keep up with them with regards to code changes and build environments, and if there were a few reliably sync'ed images produced that we 3rd party developers could verify our own local results against, this situation will change. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Jay Vaughan, 2008-08-13 14:42:23 +0200 : Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? Roland. -- Roland Mas A man walks into a bar. Bang. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
The MokoMakefile is great. I've had it working for months. But I still don't know how I would contribute to OM. There's a wiki page about using the MokoMakefile to edit the existing packages. But I don't think that addresses actually contributing said changes back to OM. Maybe I'm just missing something. Now I have used the toolchain to make my own little app. But I don't think that's what Jay meant by contributing. -Steven On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Roland Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jay Vaughan, 2008-08-13 14:42:23 +0200 : Idea of Open Source projects is to release them before they're ready, to let community work on them as well. That would be fine in our case, *if* we could work on them concurrently, but there is so much cruft in dealing with the build environment - and too many forks in the details - that it makes it very unproductive to try to contribute. Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? Roland. -- Roland Mas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. much more fun, right now, to hack code *on* the machine itself, put up with slow (actually not bad considering how much code gets written in between compiles) build times, but have a development environment that sits on a 512m SD card rather than .. 12 gigs, not counting the VM backups i've been doing over 12 months of tracking mokomakefile .. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Does Mokomakefile can build a 2008.8 more recent than the one release on August 08 of 2008 ? I setup the Makefile for OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.testing and run make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image Will I have the fake asu, like the one on the daily buildhost ? or will I have a 2008.8/ASU ? if not, how can I build myself a more recent 2008.8/ASU Regards Philippe On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh come on. After reading all your (and others') scary messages about that, I decided to give it a try. So I pointed my browser to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. Half an hour later, I had a build in progress. Most of that half-hour was spent waiting for stuff to download, and part of the rest was due to my running the whole stuff in a particular isolated environment (cowbuilder chroot, for those who care) with its own characteristics (stuff runs as root, and I didn't have a home directory). great that its working for you, looking forward to future news of your .ipk URL's .. Of course, the build hasn't completed yet (I have a few *.ipk already, but the webpage mentions 5 hours on a computer that's rather faster than mine), but if pasting less than 15 commands straight from a web page is too high a barrier to entry for prospective developers, I doubt they'd be able to accomplish much even if it was a single command to run. since where did i say that i couldn't follow the instructions on the wiki? the issue is that there is no one stable, common, build system - or distribution channel - for developers to pop their stuff into, and with the moving targets of 'fso' vs. 'asu' vs 'om2007.2' vs 'underground' vs 'etc', its a bother. much more fun, right now, to hack code *on* the machine itself, put up with slow (actually not bad considering how much code gets written in between compiles) build times, but have a development environment that sits on a 512m SD card rather than .. 12 gigs, not counting the VM backups i've been doing over 12 months of tracking mokomakefile .. Half an hour. 15 commands to copy and paste. How much more hand-holding does a developer need? please, do not assume i am a fool unless you would consider like countenance. its not the hand-holding or the trick makefiles. its the dire lack of a dictator to rally around and form a federation .. and as a result, actually, building apps for the phone *with* the phone is turning out to be, frankly, a lot more workable - and lightweight - than over a year of mokomakefile groupthink right about now .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Feydreva wrote: Does Mokomakefile can build a 2008.8 more recent than the one release on August 08 of 2008 ? I setup the Makefile for OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.testing and run make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image Will I have the fake asu, like the one on the daily buildhost ? or will I have a 2008.8/ASU ? That should build the correct image from the correct branch to get you ASU updates. The only other variable is whether the Openmoko staff who built the ASU image used moko-autorev.inc or not. I truely hope they did not and instead relied on the pinned sane-srcrevs.inc file. I would really like to see a precise definition of how Openmoko staff build the images for release ... -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Ya just download qtopia for now. Then try 2008.9 when it comes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:35 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner? Anyway, I'm done complaining. Anyone want to buy a new Freemoko? I'll sell it for $350 with free shipping to anywhere in the US :) my advice is: don't be too quick to get off the train, which is well and truly under way, whatever the load .. having a working freerunner that kicks ass in 2 weeks time, or having it now: its up to the community. which isn't going to stop, just because people are not using the hardware yet .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
2008.9 - Was Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then try 2008.9 when it comes First time I happen to meet an announcement for the next release, it seems. Please issue it when it's READY and not on 2008.9.9 at 09:09:09 just for the fun of it. Jut my 2 cents. -- Olivier BERGER (OpenPGP: 1024D/B4C5F37F) http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Hi Dimitri: Some of information is not correct. The warranty is essentially non-existent. Yes, we don't have unified warranty policy yet, but this does not mean we don't take the responsibility for user get bad devices. We still working on this, once we have consensus, we will announce. The problem also not warranty itself, but also who will take care later warranty issue processing (fixing/logistic). It's supposedly 14 days D.O.A.. Dead On Arrival, in its strictest definition, means that as long as the phone boots up, that's it. It doesn't matter if it's not really functional. As long as it boots up, it's technically not DOA. If it can't make phone calls or connect to the internet, too bad: it's not DOA. If the GPS antenna doesn't work right, because of a hardware flaw, too bad: it's not DOA. We have support list for trouble shooting, For EU user get phone from distributor, you could contact them if your phone not working. For web shop order, please contact mail on the web shop, we will take the case and process it. But also please check support list and wiki quick start page for existing answer. We _didn't_ reject any customer for return with reasonable reasons so far. If device is really non-functional, we take case by case troubling shooting and review it. We don't want to be irresponsible for FR user, that's only policy here for sure. While I'm glad they're trying to put out a phone that's open, I'm very disappointed in their lack of customer support. I mean, it's not some throw-away piece of crap. It's a $400 phone! Yes, we do not satisfy ourself with this kind of service level either, we are trying improve, but this is global shipment, and we only have a few people now. I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' experience, I've finally given up trying.) If you ask for return, we still take this request and review it. Please mail me your contact information, order number, and issue description. Tony Tu (Neng-Yu Tu) Openmoko, Inc. Support. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Hi Lally Singh: The warranty is also bugging me. Is there anywhere else I could get one? Or would OM be willing to sell an extended warranty for a bit more $$? Our sales and marketing both are in US working on this now, no extended warranty yet. Or at least a cheap spare parts program? I don't mind swapping out parts if they're available at reasonable prices. We might have spare part or re-work package, but still under discussion. What spare part you need? Tony Tu (Neng-Yu Tu) Openmoko, Inc. Support. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Ah, but once you hit send you lost ownership of your thread. You can no more reclaim your thread than you can stuff feathers back into a torn pillow in a high wind true, oh pharao. but otoh it isn't the first attempt to clarify the issue and virtually every other attempt very fast went in any other direction but a satisfying answer -- since the issue is still of interest for a lot of people it's not unrealistic at all that hope that this time it would stay in-topic. in vain, as it turns out ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:29 AM, Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lally Singh: The warranty is also bugging me. Is there anywhere else I could get one? Or would OM be willing to sell an extended warranty for a bit more $$? Our sales and marketing both are in US working on this now, no extended warranty yet. If one's coming, and I don't get a dead FR before that, that's good :-) Please, I'd like to emphasize again, that it's a *real* issue for me. I can hack the software stack day and night (and I'd like to do some work to make it easier for others to do the same), but dead HW is no good. Or at least a cheap spare parts program? I don't mind swapping out parts if they're available at reasonable prices. We might have spare part or re-work package, but still under discussion. What spare part you need? My 10-pack order group just got the 10th member, so I haven't even put an order in yet. I'd just like the parts to be available so I don't have to shell out another $400 if something screws up. Even if they're the working parts cannibalized from dead RMA'd FRs, I'm fine with that. Especially if it made the parts cheaper. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) wrote: Yes, we don't have unified warranty policy yet, but this does not mean we don't take the responsibility for user get bad devices. Define bad... It's a little vague -- does 'bad' simply mean DOA like was announced by Steve several months ago regarding the 14-day/28-day DOA warranty, or does 'bad' mean phones that turn on but don't have functioning hardware ? Thanks for working with the rest of the team to come to some consensus on what the warranty is all about. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian Ian, I agree with you, and I'm sure Steve and Sean (and everyone at Openmoko) do as well. I'm sure that the only reason that Steve has not responded (for he is the one to respond to this) is that he is completely overwhelmed by email, manufacturing and shipping, and releasing stuff this week. He is wearing the hats of Marketing, Operations, Manufacturing, Shipping, Testing, Hardware and Software final test, Field Engineer Manager, Customer Service Manager, Product Oversight (a new category I just created), Trade Show Coordinator, Vertical Market Manager, and many others I can't even remember. I will be talking to him today and I'll see if we can address this issue. Thanks for helping to keep us focused, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
The warranty is essentially non-existent. It's supposedly 14 days D.O.A.. Dead On Arrival, in its strictest definition, means that as long as the phone boots up, that's it. It doesn't matter if it's not really functional. As long as it boots up, it's technically not DOA. If it can't make phone calls or connect to the internet, too bad: it's not DOA. If the GPS antenna doesn't work right, because of a hardware flaw, too bad: it's not DOA. While I'm glad they're trying to put out a phone that's open, I'm very disappointed in their lack of customer support. I mean, it's not some throw-away piece of crap. It's a $400 phone! I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' experience, I've finally given up trying.) Anyway, I'm done complaining. Anyone want to buy a new Freemoko? I'll sell it for $350 with free shipping to anywhere in the US :) Dimitri ian douglas-2 wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p669058.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' experience, I've finally given up trying.) I haven't seen anyone say the phone would be ready for regular user. I tell people don't even expect to make reliable phone calls. Though I think they should have put a big warning page during the purchasing process before it takes your credit card, so no one would have an excuse to complain. Sorry that its not for you yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
I'm just venting steam. I'm not entirely unhappy with the phone: just a little frustrated, since I'm having a hard time justifying the purchase with my wife... not to mention my iPhone-loving friends. There were a number of sites, like Engadget and a few others, that were essentially implying that the Freerunner was ready for general use (as opposed to the Neo1973, which was strictly a developer's phone). So, I enthusiastically ordered it, only to realize that it's still, very much, a developer's phone. And not just a developer's phone, but a *super hardcore* developer's phone. I wouldn't mind learning to program for it, but even that's hard to do, since there are a handful of competing openmoko software architectures that aren't really interoperable. Anyway, I guess I'll wait for the software to catch up to the hardware. Meanwhile, I'll keep it tucked away in the closet. Dimitri Steven Kurylo wrote: I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' experience, I've finally given up trying.) I haven't seen anyone say the phone would be ready for regular user. I tell people don't even expect to make reliable phone calls. Though I think they should have put a big warning page during the purchasing process before it takes your credit card, so no one would have an excuse to complain. Sorry that its not for you yet. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p669126.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Dido Blake Haggerty Permanent Placement Specialist Work: 415-788-8488 x6062 Fax: 415-788-2592 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linkedin.com/in/blakehaggerty Sapphire Technologies See who we know in common -Original Message- From:Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org community@lists.openmoko.org; Sent: Aug 4, 2008 11:31:23 AM Subject: Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner? I'm just venting steam. I'm not entirely unhappy with the phone: just a little frustrated, since I'm having a hard time justifying the purchase with my wife... not to mention my iPhone-loving friends. There were a number of sites, like Engadget and a few others, that were essentially implying that the Freerunner was ready for general use (as opposed to the Neo1973, which was strictly a developer's phone). So, I enthusiastically ordered it, only to realize that it's still, very much, a developer's phone. And not just a developer's phone, but a *super hardcore* developer's phone. I wouldn't mind learning to program for it, but even that's hard to do, since there are a handful of competing openmoko software architectures that aren't really interoperable. Anyway, I guess I'll wait for the software to catch up to the hardware. Meanwhile, I'll keep it tucked away in the closet. Dimitri Steven Kurylo wrote: I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years' experience, I've finally given up trying.) I haven't seen anyone say the phone would be ready for regular user. I tell people don't even expect to make reliable phone calls. Though I think they should have put a big warning page during the purchasing process before it takes your credit card, so no one would have an excuse to complain. Sorry that its not for you yet. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Third-request%3A-what-*is*-the-warranty-on-the-Freerunner--tp668835p669126.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. -id ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Ah, but once you hit send you lost ownership of your thread. You can no more reclaim your thread than you can stuff feathers back into a torn pillow in a high wind :-) ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. -id ian douglas wrote: Sean/Michael/Community: It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself out and we'll get an answer. The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, but we've never been told what the warranty includes. I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list archives anyway. Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at a hardware level? Thanks, Ian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. And a good thread it was too :) I am also very curious about the potential GSM fixes. Will these be done by sending it back, or will it be something us hackers can do (and soldering sub-micron capacitors to invisible traces I do not consider your average hacker can do, and I have been playing with a soldering iron for 35 years, and I would not attempt it :) The GSM problems particularly worry me, because it does make the phone useless as a phone and I need to know if I need to go buy another phone as a primary phone or not. Whereas problems with GPS SDCARDS are not show stoppers for me. If it worked fine with a BT headset I could also use it happily. (Of course if we discover a fatal H/W flaw that prevents even BT headsets from working that is also a show stopper for me) So please OM head honchos, get together and please give us a definitive statement as to what the after sales support will be for any serious Hardware issues discovered after shipping. Thanks Jim -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Anyway, I'm done complaining. Anyone want to buy a new Freemoko? I'll sell it for $350 with free shipping to anywhere in the US :) my advice is: don't be too quick to get off the train, which is well and truly under way, whatever the load .. having a working freerunner that kicks ass in 2 weeks time, or having it now: its up to the community. which isn't going to stop, just because people are not using the hardware yet .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
The warrenty on our web shop is 14 days for DOA. GSM problems could be related to the age of your SIM. So we suggest updated any old SIMS. Micheal can help. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Morris Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:43 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Shiloh Subject: Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner? ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. And a good thread it was too :) I am also very curious about the potential GSM fixes. Will these be done by sending it back, or will it be something us hackers can do (and soldering sub-micron capacitors to invisible traces I do not consider your average hacker can do, and I have been playing with a soldering iron for 35 years, and I would not attempt it :) The GSM problems particularly worry me, because it does make the phone useless as a phone and I need to know if I need to go buy another phone as a primary phone or not. Whereas problems with GPS SDCARDS are not show stoppers for me. If it worked fine with a BT headset I could also use it happily. (Of course if we discover a fatal H/W flaw that prevents even BT headsets from working that is also a show stopper for me) So please OM head honchos, get together and please give us a definitive statement as to what the after sales support will be for any serious Hardware issues discovered after shipping. Thanks Jim -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Jim Morris wrote: ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. And a good thread it was too :) I am also very curious about the potential GSM fixes. Will these be done by sending it back, or will it be something us hackers can do (and soldering sub-micron capacitors to invisible traces I do not consider your average hacker can do, and I have been playing with a soldering iron for 35 years, and I would not attempt it :) The GSM problems particularly worry me, because it does make the phone useless as a phone and I need to know if I need to go buy another phone as a primary phone or not. Whereas problems with GPS SDCARDS are not show stoppers for me. Have you tried the recommended approach of a new SIM card? Who is your carrier? Have you added them to the GSM database on the wiki? Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
steve wrote: The warrenty on our web shop is 14 days for DOA. GSM problems could be related to the age of your SIM. So we suggest updated any old SIMS. Micheal can help. Sorry I should have been clearer, I am referring to the loud buzzing on GSM calls, which has been determined to be noise getting into the circuitry. -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
Jim Morris wrote: steve wrote: The warrenty on our web shop is 14 days for DOA. GSM problems could be related to the age of your SIM. So we suggest updated any old SIMS. Micheal can help. Sorry I should have been clearer, I am referring to the loud buzzing on GSM calls, which has been determined to be noise getting into the circuitry. Ah. Quite right. Big difference. M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
The warranty is also bugging me. Is there anywhere else I could get one? Or would OM be willing to sell an extended warranty for a bit more $$? Or at least a cheap spare parts program? I don't mind swapping out parts if they're available at reasonable prices. On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Morris wrote: ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. And a good thread it was too :) I am also very curious about the potential GSM fixes. Will these be done by sending it back, or will it be something us hackers can do (and soldering sub-micron capacitors to invisible traces I do not consider your average hacker can do, and I have been playing with a soldering iron for 35 years, and I would not attempt it :) The GSM problems particularly worry me, because it does make the phone useless as a phone and I need to know if I need to go buy another phone as a primary phone or not. Whereas problems with GPS SDCARDS are not show stoppers for me. Have you tried the recommended approach of a new SIM card? Who is your carrier? Have you added them to the GSM database on the wiki? Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
There were a number of sites, like Engadget and a few others, that were essentially implying that the Freerunner was ready for general use (as opposed to the Neo1973, which was strictly a developer's phone). well, if you use qtopia, with an eye on the rapid progress, you can at least adopt a holding pattern as good things come along. what i think has happened is, frankly, a bit of a wild hacker mutiny. realizing that, once the hardware is actually out there in good numbers, the distribution wars are *on8*, be-atches, the openmoko 'community' went ballistic, and .. yes kids .. its true, there are more than one operating systems to run on your freerunner, and frankly thats not going to change or 'devolve', its clear. so tell your iPhone homies :P to them having 'the one mans operating system', while you have .. so far .. at least 5 or 6 to choose from. and, thus: the race is on. who will make the freerunner a trully rockin' device? *all* the bits are there, and frankly, with such a big feast, its sure we'll not run out of forks. So, I enthusiastically ordered it, only to realize that it's still, very much, a developer's phone. And not just a developer's phone, but a *super hardcore* developer's phone. well, i have to admit that i think its high time the back-room 'disk image swapping around of' crowd got their thumbs out of their asses and started sharing bootable goods, pre-configured and ready to roll, but thats just me bein' all 'cyber' about it, alas .. I wouldn't mind learning to program for it, but even that's hard to do, since there are a handful of competing openmoko software architectures that aren't really interoperable. consider this: there is *nothing* stopping you from spending an hour or two for a week, configuring and building your -own- distro, from all the parts, slapping a lable on it and installing it on the other 9 phones you've got in your box. the only question then, of course, would be: who you gonna call? Anyway, I guess I'll wait for the software to catch up to the hardware. Meanwhile, I'll keep it tucked away in the closet. i've got mine in my kit, its a very useful linux box to me already, only a 9 or so days into the trip, and i must admit its fun to have when i need it .. i've got mine set up for the local public funkfeuer nodes, just fine, and that means i've got at least a feed or two in the park to read, and GPS maps (weather too) as well .. so thats nice. it is actually *quite* a useful system if you pump some time into it. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
