Re: endgame (Was [computer-go] Re: Should 9x9 komi be 8.0 ?])

2008-03-10 Thread Michael Williams
Jonas Kahn wrote: out, kos can go on for long. I don't know what depth is attained in the tree (by the way, I would really like to know), but I doubt it is that MoGo displays the depth of the principle variation in the stderr stream. ___ computer-go

Re: endgame (Was [computer-go] Re: Should 9x9 komi be 8.0 ?])

2008-03-10 Thread Jonas Kahn
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:33:03AM -0400, Michael Williams wrote: Jonas Kahn wrote: out, kos can go on for long. I don't know what depth is attained in the tree (by the way, I would really like to know), but I doubt it is that MoGo displays the depth of the principle variation in the stderr

Re: endgame (Was [computer-go] Re: Should 9x9 komi be 8.0 ?])

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:33:03AM -0400, Michael Williams wrote: Jonas Kahn wrote: out, kos can go on for long. I don't know what depth is attained in the tree (by the way, I would really like to know), but I doubt it is that MoGo displays the depth of the principle variation in the stderr

Re: endgame (Was [computer-go] Re: Should 9x9 komi be 8.0 ?])

2008-03-10 Thread Christoph Birk
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: MoGo displays the depth of the principle variation in the stderr stream. I have been wondering, does that include _any_ nodes, or only these above certain number of playouts? What is the playout threshold? The 'principal variation' is usually the one

Re: endgame (Was [computer-go] Re: Should 9x9 komi be 8.0 ?])

2008-03-10 Thread Jonas Kahn
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 01:03:02PM -0700, Christoph Birk wrote: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: MoGo displays the depth of the principle variation in the stderr stream. I have been wondering, does that include _any_ nodes, or only these above certain number of playouts? What is the

[computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
Hi, On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 10:18:34AM +0100, Petr Baudis wrote: (By the way, pachi1-*-light are UCT bots with completely light playouts with various UCB1 c values, if anyone wants to use that as reference. Surprisingly, it seems that my heavy playouts do not make big difference so far,

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Christoph Birk
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: With 110k playouts per move and no domain knowledge in the playouts, the ratings are now: c=0.2 (pachi1-p0.2-light) ELO 1627 (285 games) c=1.0 (pachi1-p1.0-light) ELO 1590 (120 games) c=0.05 (pachi1-p0.05-light)

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Don Dailey
Petr Baudis wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 10:18:34AM +0100, Petr Baudis wrote: (By the way, pachi1-*-light are UCT bots with completely light playouts with various UCB1 c values, if anyone wants to use that as reference. Surprisingly, it seems that my heavy playouts do not

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 03:40:53PM -0700, Christoph Birk wrote: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: With 110k playouts per move and no domain knowledge in the playouts, the ratings are now: c=0.2 (pachi1-p0.2-light) ELO 1627 (285 games) c=1.0 (pachi1-p1.0-light)

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:07PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: I think you may still have a bug. You should get well over 1700 with 110,000 playouts, even if they are light playouts. Hmmm... That is going to be some tough debugging I suspect. I'm pretty sure my code is fairly well debugged

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Don Dailey
Petr Baudis wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:07PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: I think you may still have a bug. You should get well over 1700 with 110,000 playouts, even if they are light playouts. Hmmm... That is going to be some tough debugging I suspect. I'm working on

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
Hi, On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 08:07:14PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: What is the justification of using the parent playout count instead of the node playout count itself? I don't know if it makes much difference how this is done, and I don't know how everybody else is doing it. I

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Christoph Birk
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:07PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: I think you may still have a bug. You should get well over 1700 with 110,000 playouts, even if they are light playouts. I will run myCtest with 110k-playout, c=0.25 and node creation after the

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Christoph Birk
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Christoph Birk wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:07PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: I think you may still have a bug. You should get well over 1700 with 110,000 playouts, even if they are light playouts. I will run myCtest with

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Petr Baudis
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 05:36:14PM -0700, Christoph Birk wrote: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Christoph Birk wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2008, Petr Baudis wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:07PM -0400, Don Dailey wrote: I think you may still have a bug. You should get well over 1700 with 110,000

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Don Dailey
The key point, good or bad, is that I allocate all the legal children nodes as a group.I manage my own memory pool and just hand out nodes sequentially.I don't need to maintain pointers to each child, only a single pointer to the first child. So instead of needing 4 extra bytes per node

Re: [computer-go] Optimal explore rates for plain UCT

2008-03-10 Thread Jason House
On Mar 10, 2008, at 8:07 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some programs hash each position and the tree is more abstract, no pointers just positions leading to other positions by zobrist hash keys in a hash table. My scheme probably wastes a lot of space on nodes that are left