[Computer-go] FineArt

[Michael Alford]

A friend sent me the link below, it may interest some of you. Be aware it's 
40mins, and there are a few audio blips after the 24min mark. 
[ 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ2BnFx8Ak=IwAR2MQgAkJAnRluJRO9eBD2hjzwmkphjVn1e7EaZ5rlUzpexTWwMAfRnUtG0
 | 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ2BnFx8Ak=IwAR2MQgAkJAnRluJRO9eBD2hjzwmkphjVn1e7EaZ5rlUzpexTWwMAfRnUtG0
 ] 

Michael 

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[Computer-go] AI Reasoning

[Michael Alford]

Links to this showed up in my inbox the other day , thought it might be of 
interest to some in the group: 

[ https://deepmind.com/blog/measuring-abstract-reasoning/ | 
https://deepmind.com/blog/measuring-abstract-reasoning/ ] 
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[Computer-go] AI Reasoning

[Michael Alford]

Links to this showed up in my inbox the other day , thought it might be of 
interest to some in the group: 

[ https://deepmind.com/blog/measuring-abstract-reasoning/ | 
https://deepmind.com/blog/measuring-abstract-reasoning/ ] 
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Re: [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt beating Ke Jie with 2 Handicap Stones

[Michael Alford]

This is the problem we had with the link to the IGF article.  The sense 
we made of the statement attributed to Ke Jie was he can't give FineArt 
h2 because it is as strong as he is.  Thanks, Ingo, for the iink to the 
forum.  I have the games and will share them.


Michael


On 1/21/18 6:22 AM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote:
It's unclear to me who played black with the two handicap stones.  Ke 
Jie or FineArt?


On Jan 21, 2018 1:56 AM, Ingo Althöfer <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de 
<mailto:3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>> wrote:


Stefan Kaitschick posted this in the German computer go forun:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6728.msg215694#msg215694
<http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6728.msg215694#msg215694>

His text roughly translated to English:
> I downloaded FineArt free 2 stone games.
> At least the game of Ke Jies is included.
> Perhaps this is (essentially) the collection.
> You have to rename the downloaded file to new ending .zip

Hope this helps, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Januar 2018 um 05:49 Uhr
> Von: "Michael Alford" <m...@aracnet.com <mailto:m...@aracnet.com>>
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org <mailto:computer-go@computer-go.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt beating Ke Jie
with 2 Handicap Stones
>
> Could someone make sgf's of these games available?
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Re: [Computer-go] Breakthrough: FineArt beating Ke Jie with 2 Handicap Stones

[Michael Alford]

Could someone make sgf's of these games available?


On 1/19/18 10:50 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hello in the round,

it seems that Chinese company Tencent with their
Go project FineArt has achieved a fantastic breakthrough:
According to the website of the International Go Federation
the new version of FineArt has played 34 handicap games
against pro players, winning 30 of the games. Special
achievement: One of the human opponents was human superstar
Ke Jie (9p). He resigned his game after 77 moves.

http://www.intergofed.org/igf-news-feed/two-stones-fineart-defeated-ke-jie-9p-after-giving-two-stones-handicap.html

Ingo.

PS. Perhaps Tencent is willing to give Deepmind a match on equal
terms (between FineArt and AlphaGo), when AlphaGo also has
beaten Ke Jie (or some other top player) with handicap stones.

PS-2. It might be interesting to see if a team FineArt/DeepZen/AlphaGo
would beat a top human trio (like KeJie/LeeSedol/Iyama) in "RenGo",
giving handicap.
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[Computer-go] Query

[Michael Alford]

I have seen no posts to the group since May 23, not even my own. What is 
happening? Could someone email me, please?



Michael

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[Computer-go] Functioning?

[Michael Alford]

I haven't seen a post to the group in three days.  That can't be 
possible, with the event in China.

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Re: [Computer-go] What was the final score after the counting of AlphaGo-vs-Ke Jie Game #1?

[Michael Alford]

Half point is the result using Japanese komi 6.5, Chinese komi is 7.5, 
end result is W +1.5



On 5/23/17 12:02 AM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote:

I have now heard that AlphaGo one by 0.5 points.


On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Jim O'Flaherty 
> wrote:


The announcer didn't have her mic on, so I couldn't hear the final
score announced...

So, what was the final score after the counting of AlphaGo-vs-Ke
Jie Game #1?




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Re: [Computer-go] sgf files for world go championship games?

[Michael Alford]

I just checked, they are also here:


http://www.worldgochampionship.net/english/



On 3/24/17 9:55 AM, Ray Tayek wrote:

any one got a pointer to these?

thanks




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Re: [Computer-go] sgf files for world go championship games?

[Michael Alford]

All the games are still available at WBaduk


On 3/24/17 9:55 AM, Ray Tayek wrote:

any one got a pointer to these?

thanks




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Re: [Computer-go] Question: Time Table World Championships

[Michael Alford]

The last 5 mins are the byoyomi, the number of periods is arbitrary.  If 
the match is 3 hrs, byoyomi starts at 2:55. This is common practice.



On 3/9/17 2:54 AM, Darren Cook wrote:

English official page has the info.
http://www.worldgochampionship.net/english/

Thanks. Is it three hours, with sudden death? It says there is byo-yomi
from 5 minutes left, but didn't mention seconds per move, so it is just
a 300, 299, 288, 287, ... kind of countdown?

Darren

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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved

[Michael Alford]

On 1/22/17 10:50 PM, Xavier Combelle wrote:

Strangely enougth I received all the said messages


Counting the ADMIN announcement and my original reply, I have received 7 
messages.





Le 23/01/2017 à 06:20, "Ingo Althöfer" a écrit :

... and also not my own one from 2 minutes ago.
I can only look it up in the archives.

Strange.

Ingo.



Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 02:37 Uhr
Von: computer...@roveg.org
An: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
Betreff: [Computer-go] ADMIN:  Lists Have Moved


Hi,
The lists are running in a new place. The
archives and membership options should all be
the same.  If you have any problems, please let me
know.
Thanks!
Michael

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Re: [Computer-go] NATURE: Top 10 people 2016

[Michael Alford]

thanks for the link


On 12/19/16 10:46 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hi,
NATURE published a list of top 10 people in science 2016:
http://www.nature.com/news/nature-s-10-1.21157

Demis Hassabis, manager of the AlphaGo team, is in the list.

Congratulations!

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Poll: Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016

[Michael Alford]

I was finally able to vote and view results using Chrome on Debian, 
thanks to all.


I voted for AI and forwarded the link :)

Michael


On 11/30/16 11:55 AM, Arthur Cater wrote:

I used Firefox on mac/yosemite and it worked fine.
Arthur


On Nov 30, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Michael Alford <m...@aracnet.com> wrote:

I've tried Firefox and Safari on Mac, and Firefox and Chrome on Debian. I have 
used the link and accessed the page from the main page.  In all instances the 
Submit is grayed out and does not function.


Michael



On 11/30/16 6:06 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hi,
I just learned that the magazine "Science" is making a poll
on "Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016". Voters may
chose amongst 15 proposals. Voting closes on December 04.

Currently the following 5 subjects have top votes.

(1) Human embryos in a disc  17 %
(2) Ripples in space time  15 %
(3) AI in games (AlphaGo) 9 %
(4) Pocket sized DNA sequencers  8 %
(5) Custom designed proteins  7 %

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/vote-your-scientific-breakthrough-year

Feel free to participate.
No registration needed.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Poll: Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016

[Michael Alford]

I've tried Firefox and Safari on Mac, and Firefox and Chrome on Debian. 
I have used the link and accessed the page from the main page.  In all 
instances the Submit is grayed out and does not function.



Michael



On 11/30/16 6:06 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hi,
I just learned that the magazine "Science" is making a poll
on "Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016". Voters may
chose amongst 15 proposals. Voting closes on December 04.

Currently the following 5 subjects have top votes.

(1) Human embryos in a disc  17 %
(2) Ripples in space time  15 %
(3) AI in games (AlphaGo) 9 %
(4) Pocket sized DNA sequencers  8 %
(5) Custom designed proteins  7 %

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/vote-your-scientific-breakthrough-year

Feel free to participate.
No registration needed.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 3

[Michael Alford]

Hi,

Cho Chikun won game3 against DeepZenGo, and won the match.

snipped the sgf

Regards,
Hiroshi Yamashita


Michael


On 11/24/16 3:46 AM, Xavier Combelle wrote:

thanks a lot


Le 24/11/2016 à 12:31, Hideki Kato a écrit :

Ah, yes.  Maybe he didn't push "resign".

Hideki

Xavier Combelle: <1d25b061-1f25-497e-c270-ee2040602...@gmail.com>:

Hi Hideki
Sorry in kgs, the game has no result in kgs, did it ended with pro
resignation ?
Le 23/11/2016 à 23:03, Hideki Kato a écrit :

Thanks David.
It's now.
In the same afternoon, Zen vs Yonil Ha 6p was played on KGS as a part
of Neyagawa Igo Shogi Festival in Neyagawa city, Osaka, Japan.
(Zen19X vs neyagawa. The time was set 4 hours to avoid KGS's time
control and actually a move was played in 30s).
This Zen ran on a dual Xeon server with one nVidia GTX-1080 in my
room.  I ran seven threads.  This shows recent Zen on a PC with a
highend GPU is enough to beat pro at short-time settings.
Also, Zen on a dual-core laptop (ThinkPad X250; Core i7 5600U@2.6 GHz)
beat a pro a few times in personal trials (also fast games).
Hideki
David Fotland: <06c901d245a8$d41405f0$7c3c11d0$@smart-games.com>:

Congratulations to Zen for playing so well against a strong pro. It

won't

be long until anyone can get a pro strength go program that runs on

their

ordinary PC.
David

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Re: [Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 1

[Michael Alford]

As of 8AM Pacific, the game is still up on wbaduk for easy replay, but 
to save it you need a manager than converts that gibo to sgf.



Michael


On 11/19/16 5:05 AM, Erik van der Werf wrote:

Hi Ingo, The SGF file you sent is malformed (in this case it's only a
minor issue for the date field, but some sgf viewers reject it).

Do you know which program was used to create it? (the AP property
suggests Many Faces, but it also containes the non-standard MULTIGOGM
property suggesting it came from MultiGo).

Best,
Erik


On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:55 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote:

Hi,

round 1 between Deep Zen and Cho Chikun is over. It was an interesting
game, in a rather broad sense. Team Deep Zen resigned after move 223.

sgf is appended.
Round 2 is to start on Sunday, 05:00 a.m. Central Europian time.

Ingo (pressing thumbs for Zen).
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Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo selfplay 3 games

[Michael Alford]

I had to download the sgf's and open with the glGo client.


On 9/14/16 6:54 AM, Richard Lorentz wrote:
After following the link and then playing out one of the games in my 
browser (Chrome) I don't see the variations. Can anyone help me figure 
out how to make them visible?


Thanks.

-Richard


On 09/14/2016 02:25 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:

Hi,

DeepMind published AlphaGo's selfplay 3 games with comment.

AlphaGo Games - English
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__deepmind.com_research_alphago_alphago-2Dgames-2Denglish_=DQIGaQ=Oo8bPJf7k7r_cPTz1JF7vEiFxvFRfQtp-j14fFwh71U=NbBKrBPWWTAfp_een5wnh2rUKa2Rtv0nPE0GGyoIUSQ=wa5KR9ywvzFZsR_3EMUX4SOzu3Nnkk8YamJJk9-VcvU=XVTGs4Q_7WgeaciJv6vGgubF5P5Ojid_z-I23Mh53RI= 


OHASHI Hirofumi 6d pro said
"I understood AlphaGo is extremely strong even if 5sec/move."

Thanks
Hiroshi Yamashita

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Re: [Computer-go] KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments

[Michael Alford]

Nick, Goncalo, et alii:


I was just thinking how fast computers are. For a human, 20 stones in 2 
mins is rather quick, 12 secs\move, 12 secs is a long time for a 
computer. My thought was byoyomi of, say, 3x20secs or 3x30secs would be 
better for a human. After all, haya go in Japan uses 30secs. My feeling 
was the faster the byoyomi\overtime the more it would favor the 
computer. Is this an error in my thinking?



Thanks all

Michael


On 9/1/16 1:50 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:
On 1 September 2016 at 02:23, Michael Alford <m...@aracnet.com 
<mailto:m...@aracnet.com>> wrote:


Isn't this byoyomi heavily in favor of bots?

Just asking.


Not that I'm aware of (and it's not byo-yomi, it's Canadian overtime). 
What form of overtime do you think would be less favourable to bots?


Nick


On 8/31/16 10:24 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:

KGS has announced that it will be running, for the first time, a
"mixed" tournament where both humans and bots can play on the
same terms.  This will be held on Saturday and Sunday, September
17th/18th.

The tournament is in two divisions, suitable for different time
zones. Both are 19x19, No Handicap, Single Elimination. The time
settings are 30 minutes main time plus Canadian 2 minutes per 10
moves (30m + 2min / 10 moves). The rounds are spaced 90 min
apart, 3 rounds on the first day, remaining rounds on the second day.

There are details at https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070
<https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1070> (Asia/Europe) and
https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071
<https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1071> (Americas).  Bots
may enter both divisions. There are small prizes, which may be
won by bots.

The organisers expect entrants with a wide range of strengths,
and I hope that these will include bots with a range of
strengths. As it's an Elimination tournament, weaker players are
likely to be eliminated on the Saturday.

Entrants are invited to register themselves for this tournament,
using the "Tournament Registration" link at the top right of the
pages cited above. When registering a bot, please also email me,
so that I can check that all bots are being operated by, or with
the approval of, their creators, and we do not have multiple
instances of identical bots.

I hope all bot authors will consider entering this event.

Nick
-- 
Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com <mailto:mapr...@gmail.com>



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[Computer-go] AlphaGo at Congress

[Michael Alford]

This was in the ejournal, appended to the bottom of an announcement that 
Bao Yun would attend:



Also, there will ba a Q session right after the AlphaGo team’s keynote 
address, please submit your questions here 
.



Michael

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Re: [Computer-go] US Go Congress 2016 "Computer Go Afternoon" invitation

[Michael Alford]

On 4/15/16 7:36 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:

Hello Chun Sun,
  

We already have confirmed attendance from the AlphaGo team.

one question out of interest:
* Who from the AlphaGo tram intends to come to the US Go Congress?
* Will they have a demo version of AlphaGo with them?

This from the ejournal, minus the photo:

Google DeepMind team members Aja Huang 7d and Hui Fan 2P have just 
confirmed that they’ll attend this year’s US Go Congress in Boston. 
“This is an exciting opportunity for the American go community to meet 
some of the team behind AlphaGo, which attracted global attention to 
go,” said Congress Director Walther Chen. The Congress runs July 
30-August 7; click here for details 
. 
Dr. Huang /(right)/, who was seen by millions worldwide last month 
playing for AlphaGo against Lee Sedol 9P, will give the keynote speech — 
together with European champion Hui Fan 2p — at the Congress opening 
ceremony on July 30. They’ll also attend a “Computer Go Afternoon” 
session on August 4.

... We are working on confirming attendance with some other teams,
I will update on this thread with better information along the way.

Thanks in advance,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] (no subject)

[Michael Alford]

On 4/1/16 9:40 AM, Petr Baudis wrote:

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 07:08:34AM +0200, Robert Jasiek wrote:

On 01.04.2016 02:22, djhbrown . wrote:

kogo is great for corner openings

Kogo contains many mistakes. Too many kyus got their hands on it.

It would be better to spend 3+ weeks using kombilo on GoGoD and create a new
joseki tree. A summary of such an effort (with some interesting, additional,
old variations) you find in Joseki 3 - Dictionary.

(If someone is lazy or has trouble setting up kombilo, a great and
extremely approachable way to try this online is http://ps.waltheri.net/ )


As a player, I find http://www.josekipedia.com/ useful.

Michael




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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to AlphaGo

[Michael Alford]

Give it the hatsuyo-ron :)

On Mar 12, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Ingo Althöfer wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Von: "Thomas Wolf" 
>> A suggestion for possible future games to be arranged between AlphaGo and
>> strong players:
>> 
>> Whoever lost shall be given 1 stone or the equivalent of 1/2 stone handcap 
>> in the
>> next game. Games should continue until each side has won at least once. This
>> way AlphaGo will be forced to demonstrate its full strength over a whole game
>> which we are all too curious to see.
> 
> That is one interesting proposal. I have another one:
> You are the master of computer tsume go.
> Give DeepMind a set of your tsume go compositions (from easy
> to really difficult) and let them test which of the problems
> AlphaGo can solve.
> 
> Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering the Game of Go with Deep Neural Networks and Tree Search

[Michael Alford]

On 1/27/16 12:08 PM, Aja Huang wrote:


2016-01-27 18:46 GMT+00:00 Aja Huang >:

Hi all,

We are very excited to announce that our Go program, AlphaGo, has
beaten a professional player for the first time. AlphaGo beat the
European champion Fan Hui by 5 games to 0. We hope you enjoy our
paper, published in Nature today. The paper and all the games can be
found here:

http://www.deepmind.com/alpha-go.html


The paper is freely available to download at the bottom of the page.
https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-data/assets/papers/deepmind-mastering-go.pdf

Aja

AlphaGo will be competing in a match against Lee Sedol in Seoul,
this March, to see whether we finally have a Go program that is
stronger than any human!

Aja

PS I am very busy preparing AlphaGo for the match, so apologies in
advance if I cannot respond to all questions about AlphaGo.



Congratulations on your achievement. While scanning the web articles 
yesterday, I came across this one:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-27/google-computers-defeat-human-players-at-2-500-year-old-board-game

It states that the winner of the March match gets $1mil. This is the 
only reference to any prize I have found. Is it correct?


Thank you,
Michael



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Re: [Computer-go] Board evaluation using a convolutional neural network

[Michael Alford]

On 1/15/16 2:07 PM, Michael Sué wrote:


Well my point is more in the direction to get a good live-and-death
solver, maybe completely independent of the game as a whole. Just train
a DNN on some life-and-death collections with solutions, where all of
the usual tricks are applied. I think this has the potential to get
similar if not better results than an engine that is based on theories.

Or has this been already tried?
- Michael.


You could train it on Cho Chihun's Encyclopedia of Life and Death

Michael A



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Re: [Computer-go] Computer-go Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22

[Michael Alford]

On 12/29/15 4:10 AM, amanda oregon wrote:



You can reach the person managing the list at
computer-go-ow...@computer-go.org



Is veg no longer the manager?

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[Computer-go] trace

[Michael Alford]

Ignore, tracing the route

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Re: [Computer-go] UEC Cup

[Michael Alford]

On 3/15/15 12:39 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:


UEC student won a exhibition game against CrazyStone without handicap.

Hiroshi Yamashita

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Thank you for the updates.

Michael

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[Computer-go] Go AI

[Michael Alford]

This link appeared in today's AGA E-journal. It mentions MoGo, Zen, and 
Crazy Stone.


Michael

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Re: [Computer-go] Spring SLOW KGS bot tournament, 19x19

[Michael Alford]

On 2/24/15 2:16 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:


(I tried to send this message yesterday - but I don't see it in the list
archives,
so I am sending it again.)



Just fyi, I saw it yesterday.




The spring SLOW KGS bot tournament will start next Sunday, March 1st,
starting at 22:00 UTC, and ending on Wednesday by 14:00 UTC.  It will use
19x19 boards, with time limits of 235 minutes each plus very fast Canadian
overtime, and komi of 7.5.  There are details at
http://www.gokgs.com/__tournInfo.jsp?id=947
http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=942.

Please register by emailing me, with the words KGS Tournament
Registration in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com
mailto:mapr...@gmail.com .

--
Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com mailto:mapr...@gmail.com



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Re: [Computer-go] Go AI

[Michael Alford]

Apology, forgot the link:

http://blog.fogcreek.com/go-and-artificial-intelligence-tech-talk/


On 2/24/15 3:26 PM, Michael Alford wrote:

This link appeared in today's AGA E-journal. It mentions MoGo, Zen, and
Crazy Stone.

Michael

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[Computer-go] Numenta

[Michael Alford]

I thought some of you might be interested in this:

 http://numenta.com/#hero

Here's a short teaser :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RojcnwnEzSQ

Michael

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[Computer-go] test

[Michael Alford]

test

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Re: [computer-go] Fwd: [gnugo-devel] (GNU) Open source real time Go server

[Michael Alford]

On 1/18/10 3:02 AM, Wolfgang Krames wrote:


Hi

Benjamin Teuber from Germany works for IGS to make the official client
more attractive to western players, e.g. he plans to add a
kgs-like-review-tool.
You can tell him your wishes (like making igs usable for near blind
people) and if possible he will add them to glgo in the future.

Wolfgang Krames




Good news about the client. Does anyone know what became of Teuber's UGS 
project? (the one mentioned at Sensei's)


Michael

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Re: [computer-go] Re: computer-go Digest, Vol 43, Issue 8

[Michael Alford]

Don Dailey wrote:



I tried Alford's value of 9.5 komi and white is even more happy, showing
about 0.547  in the score.


I don't believe what Alford says about 9.5 being the correct komi for
9x9.Where does that information come from?



Japanese tv games.
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Re: [computer-go] Re: computer-go Digest, Vol 43, Issue 8

[Michael Alford]

Christoph Birk wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Don Dailey wrote:

Is your question whether 7.0 or 8.0 is the best komi?   Or do you
suspect a different 1/2 komi value is best?


I wonder what the true komi is ... I don't know (nobody knows?) if
it's fractional or not; eg. for 7x7 it is 9.0.

Christoph

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unlurk

i believe correct komi for 9x9 with pros is 9.5

lurk
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Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

[Michael Alford]

I have lurked here for a long time, I find this newsletter very 
interesting, because I play Go, I am not a programmer. I agree with 
everything Mr Foltand had to say, but would like to add a small bit 
about IGS ranks. A few years ago, IGS changed its ranking system so as 
to anchor from the top, ie a 9d on IGS was a 9d pro, making it the 
closest to real world rankings. I think the strength of IGS ranks has 
slipped a bit since cyberoro came online, but is still probably closest 
to real world ranks. I would suggest not using AGA or KGS or any other 
 ranking system for establishing your CGOS ranks, recruit some IGS 
players with solid (over 100 rated games) ranks, and have them play with 
your various engines.


back to lurking,
Michael

David Fotland wrote:

I think AGA and KGS are pretty close.  AGA is a real rating system in that
ratings are earned in sanctioned tournaments so they are not disrupted by
casual games.  http://www.usgo.org/ratings/default.html  


European ratings (also from tournaments) are perhaps 2 stones tougher.  Many
think they are more reasonable, since most feel the top of the amateur
rating should be 7 dan or lower, and top AGA ratings are higher than that.
Top pros that have participated in AGA tournaments have ratings about 10
dan, and there are many amateur 8 dans.

Japanese ratings are less tough.  Japanese amateur ratings can be purchased,
with a test, so there has been inflation, and I don't think there is a
national rating organization like in USA and Europe. 


Korean and Chinese are very tough, since they think a 1 dan amateur should
be close to professional strength.

So, I'm AGA 3 dan, but I would have a tough time playing as a 1 dan in
Europe, and I play at 4 dan in clubs in Japan.

I tried playing in a club as 3 dan in China once, and got totally crushed.

My preference would be a scale that is fixed at the top, with 9 dan pros at
9 dan.  This would put 1 dan pros at about 7 dan and top amateurs at 6 dan,
with a few 7 dans.  This is pretty close to the European scale.  Top
tournament pros almost never lose to pro 1 dans, so there are 300 or more
ELO points between the top amateurs and the top professionals.

So perhaps top human play is 3500 or more on the cgos 19x19 scale.  That's
12 ranks above 2000, with the higher ranks having more ELO points per rank.

David


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:37 PM
To: computer-go
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

I feel that we probably need several more players to have much
accuracy,  but I don't mind starting the best educated guess we can
muster - it can be modified at a later time.

How do AGA ratings compare to other systems?   Is any particular system
considered (defacto or otherwise) more of a standard than some other?

How do AGA ratings compare to KGS?

- Don



Christoph Birk wrote:

It looks like my (3k AGA) CGOS rating (tast-3k) is converging around
2000 ELO. That gives us a zero-point but we need at least one more
rated player (better more) to get the scale.
If you would like to use my GUI please contact me by private email
at ccbirk at gmail dot com.

Christoph
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