Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

You are totally right it is not the same curves. according to the reddit post. So I was totally wrong > On 27-10-17 10:15, Xavier Combelle wrote: >> Maybe I'm wrong but both curves for alphago zero looks pretty similar >> except than the figure 3 is the zoom in of figure 6 > The blue curve in

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

OK I will reread it attentively Le 27/10/2017 à 19:19, Hideki Kato a écrit : > Please read _through_ the paper sequentially. > #I don't have enough skill to describe the reason because > it's not a technical but language issue. > > Hideki > >> I don't understand which element makes you say that

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Please read _through_ the paper sequentially. #I don't have enough skill to describe the reason because it's not a technical but language issue. Hideki >I don't understand which element makes you say that >section 2 and 3 are all for a 20 block instance > > >Le 27/10/2017 E01:49, Hideki Kato a

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

On 27-10-17 10:15, Xavier Combelle wrote: > Maybe I'm wrong but both curves for alphago zero looks pretty similar > except than the figure 3 is the zoom in of figure 6 The blue curve in figure 3 is flat at around 60 hours (2.5 days). In figure 6, at 2.5 days the line is near vertical. So it is

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Maybe I'm wrong but both curves for alphago zero looks pretty similar except than the figure 3 is the zoom in of figure 6 Le 27 oct. 2017 04:31, "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" a écrit : > Figure 6 has the same graph as Figure 3 but for 40 blocks. You can compare > the Elo. > > On Thu,

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

The 40 block version (2nd instance) first appeared in Section 4 in the paper. Section 2 and 3 are all for the 1st instance. Hideki Xavier Combelle: <39a79a0e-7c7d-2a01-a2ae-573cda8b1...@gmail.com>: >Unless I mistake figure 3 shows the plot of supervised learning to >reinforcement learning,

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Figure 6 has the same graph as Figure 3 but for 40 blocks. You can compare the Elo. On Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 23:35 Xavier Combelle wrote: > Unless I mistake figure 3 shows the plot of supervised learning to > reinforcement learning, not 20 bloc/40 block > > For searching

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

[Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!? Xavier Combelle: <62b977d7-d227-a74d-04b7-0d46db6a7...@gmail.com>: >It is just wild guesses based on reasonable arguments but without >evidence. Yes, of course. Due to not enough info provided by Google. Hideki >Le 26/10/2017 à 0

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Unless I mistake figure 3 shows the plot of supervised learning to reinforcement learning, not 20 bloc/40 block For searching mention of the 20 blocks I search for 20 in the whole paper and did not found any other mention than of the kifu thing. Le 26/10/2017 à 15:10, Gian-Carlo Pascutto a

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Xavier Combelle: <62b977d7-d227-a74d-04b7-0d46db6a7...@gmail.com>: >It is just wild guesses  based on reasonable arguments but without >evidence. Yes, of course. Due to not enough info provided by Google. Hideki >Le 26/10/2017 à 07:51, Hideki Kato a écrit : >> You can believe >>> Of what I

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

On 26-10-17 10:55, Xavier Combelle wrote: > It is just wild guesses based on reasonable arguments but without > evidence. David Silver said they used 40 layers for AlphaGo Master. That's more evidence than there is for the opposite argument that you are trying to make. The paper certainly

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

It is just wild guesses  based on reasonable arguments but without evidence. Le 26/10/2017 à 07:51, Hideki Kato a écrit : > You can believe >> Of what I understand same network architecture imply the same number of >> block > but David Silver told AlphaGo Master used 40 layers in > May. >

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

You can believe >Of what I understand same network architecture imply the same number of >block but David Silver told AlphaGo Master used 40 layers in May. http://www.bestchinanews.com/Science-Technology/10371.html # The paper was submitted in April. Usually, network "architecture" does not

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

As I understand the paper they directly created alphago zero with a 40 block setup. They just made a reduced 20 block setup to compare on kifu prediction (as far as I searched in the paper, it is the only place where they mention the 20 block setup) They specifically mention comparing several

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

I understand better Le 25/10/2017 à 04:28, Hideki Kato a écrit : > Are you thinking the 1st instance could reach Master level > if giving more training days? > > I don't think so. The performance would be stopping > improving at 3 days. If not, why they built the 2nd > instance? > > Best, >

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Are you thinking the 1st instance could reach Master level if giving more training days? I don't think so. The performance would be stopping improving at 3 days. If not, why they built the 2nd instance? Best, Hideki Xavier Combelle: <05c04de1-59c4-8fcd-2dd1-094faabf3...@gmail.com>: >How is

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

Also (if I'm understanding the paper correctly) 20 blocks ~= 40 layers because each "block" has two convolution layers: Each residual block applies the following modules sequentially to its input: > (1) A convolution of 256 filters of kernel size 3×3 with stride 1 > (2) Batch normalization > (3)

Re: [Computer-go] Zero is weaker than Master!?

How is it a fair comparison if there is only 3 days of training for Zero ? Master had longer training no ? Moreover, Zero has bootstrap problem because at the opposite of Master it don't learn from expert games which means that it is likely to be weaker with little training. Le 24/10/2017 à