Dec 2nd 11AM... Already gone:
But my Tivo saved the day (at least for me).
This really is great but I can't help but think of some of the C-guys
while I watch. Sorry.
Like the bit about peanut butter in the Ethernet port? And Homer's
xenophobia? Certainly.
Note the two Apple commercials
So I'm supposed to go to some guys blog otherwise I can't complain? I
thought that's why I voted in real elections, not put some topics up on a
blog?
You think your responsibilities begin and end with your casting a vote?
Do these 'responsibilities' involve something about how it's time to be
On Dec 1, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Larry Sacks wrote:
Well then just say Baa.
Just who is saying baaa?
The Simpson's TV show was running their episode yesterday
spoofing and poking fun at Apple Corp., Apple users, Steve Mobs and
all things Apple and Macintosh. Pretty damn funny stuff and
I think this is the youtube link; watch it before (if) it gets removed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkTMeczyHtE
The Simpson's TV show was running their episode yesterday spoofing
and poking fun at Apple Corp., Apple users, Steve Mobs and all
things Apple and Macintosh. Pretty damn
Well then just say Baa.
I think this is the youtube link; watch it before (if) it gets removed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkTMeczyHtE
homer Stupid irony. /homer
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I see you did not read my entire response. How convenient.
Convenient? Like...WAL-MART?
And don't forget their low, low prices!
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http://gizmodo.com/5090988/mobile-browser-battlemodo-which-phones-deliver-the-real-web
A good if not anecdotal article about the world of mobile web. The results
in this test aren't surprising with iPhone's browsing at the top and IE for
WM at the bottom. Anyone who has used WM with IE knows
This really is great but I can't help but think of some of the C-guys
while I watch. Sorry.
Richard P.
wrote:
I think this is the youtube link; watch it before (if) it gets removed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkTMeczyHtE
The Simpson's TV show was running their episode yesterday
On Dec 1, 2008, at 5:17 PM, Richard P. wrote:
This really is great but I can't help but think of some of the C-guys
while I watch. Sorry.
I am a Mac guy myself, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the jabs at
those over-the-top Mac fanatics.
Steve
So you have a crystal ball and it tells you they will judge the other way.
The difference is in our position, not our process in reaching a
conclusion. Perhaps out of pessimism you've chosen the side of big business
as the winner. I'm not saying EFF will win the case, I'm advocating who I
think
How do you know what other people know, or don't know? How do you know what
you know and how do you know it is correct? Do you think you've somehow
managed to discover that one thing that everyone else has missed that
refutes the entire theory of comparative advantage?
In lalaland instead of
Walmart and corporations like that don't want you to have freedom of
choice. They simply want to lie, and steal from you. Does the DMCA
require proper labeling of electronic entertainment media?
Nope.
Debased products are rarely marked as such. The notices on movies on TV
and airlines are
That is very similar to radio version and explicit.
A radio version is one that passes the FCC test for language.
Remember George Carlin's seven words?
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you cannot
pick your friends nose.
Stewart
At 10:11 AM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
I don't accept your view because it does not lead to anything useful
and I don't think your asking the question is anything more that a cheap
debating tactic, which wastes all our time. It is as simple as that.
Asking questions is now a cheap debating tactic? Is your worldview so
tenuous that
We still have two local dairy queens, and a smatering of other stores...
Why do Dairy Queens seem to thrive only in small southern towns? Evey
time I have reason to drive through the Carolinas, I look forward to
spotting the first exit with a Dairy Queen, so I can get a Blizzard
along with
We have em all over Arizona too.
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We still have two local dairy queens, and a smatering of other stores...
Why do Dairy Queens seem to thrive only in small southern towns? Evey
time I have reason to drive through the Carolinas,
Tom;
The issue here is freedom of two business corporations (or a
corporation and individual in the rare case of the unincorporated
artist significant enough to warrant space on the shelves) to
contract. No one would dream of telling a store they must sell a
particular pattern or
As long as they are authorized by the artists they are legit. Many
artists release more than one version of a recorded work, be it music,
video, whatever. Any deception if it exists is on the part of the
artist.
Matthew
On Nov 26, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Richard P. wrote:
Are the edited
Ahh, so dismissive of Palin's people. If you don't know what it's like
to live in a community where a Wal-Mart forces the closing of many of
the local businesses, then stick with something you might know
something about.
Either those local stores were providing value to their customers or
Walmart did not drive anyone anywhere.
What has happened is that in many small communities the merchants
have been so used to doing what they please they were not ready to
compete against Walmart.
Giant Food and their local union, UFCW 400, colluded few years back to have
the Monkey County,
Giant Food and their local union, UFCW 400, colluded few years back to have
the Monkey County, MD county council pass a law outlawing some of their
competition. They obviously greased enough palms to make sure that no store
with greater than 100,000 square feet is able to open and sell groceries
What's this nonsense about servitude and morality?
Some people find corporate greed and abuse to be a desirable quality.
I just read that managers at some Swiss banks are giving back bonuses
they received in previous years because it is now clear they were
undeserved. What a concept!
Either those local stores were providing value to their customers or they
weren't. If they were, then they should still be in business. It's not
magic.
The problem us that buyers don't have full knowledge of what they are
buying and what the true value of that product is. They don't know
There is no DRM on the library, try again, Tom.
You are just making up stuff to keep an argument going? Wasting
everyone's time?
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/apple-and
-the-digital-rights-management-debate-1039564.html
As a way of protecting the link
I don't think you and I together should either loose or gain
rights should we act in concert.
You have blinders on.
My corporation challenges you (individual) to a total cage fighting
match. I, as a corporation, will have my staff with me.
That's the problem. It is a highly asymmetric
The problem us that buyers don't have full knowledge of what they are
buying and what the true value of that product is. They don't know that
it will wear out very quickly.
How do you know what other people know, or don't know? How do you know what
you know and how do you know it is correct?
When Apple sells something at the iTunes store, they tell you up front
that it has DRM. Walmart doesn't label their music or movies to tell
you that there are significant parts missing from the products. You don't
know until the package is open and not returnable.
Does Apple really tell you
Hey, had you been paying attention to Tom all along, you would know
this is not just some guy's blog. Barack reads this! I was
thoroughly chastised for having doubted!
Back in the old days I do know that the Computer Guys were playing on
White House radios. I once made a negative on-air
So I'm supposed to go to some guys blog otherwise I can't complain? I
thought that's why I voted in real elections, not put some topics up on a
blog?
You think your responsibilities begin and end with your casting a vote?
Well then just say Baa.
Just because Apple asserts this is the case doesn't make it the case.
All that I have read on the matter confirms this and I have read with
particular interest because of this List. The DMCA prohibits speech about
circumvention. That is why we don't allow that here. It is just about the
only
Walmart and Amazon both have significant libraries that are DRM free. The
near monopoly Apple has(d) on digital tunes seems to have angered some of
the record companies and they have struck better deals elsewhere.
Jealousy may be causing them to try sticking it to Apple.
I wonder if Apple will
Do you have any urls about the matter?
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just because Apple asserts this is the case doesn't make it the case.
All that I have read on the matter confirms this and I have read with
particular interest because of this List.
Must just be your walmart, the few times I've looked at cds...never bought
any, I've seen the versions the artists were selling there were radio
versions. This is also marked clearly on their website, not burried in a
EULA at the bottom of a page.
Mike
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:12 PM,
Matthew S. Taylor wrote:
Not strictly true. They require artists who wish to sell via their
store to provide edited versions. Nothing evil about it, just a
marketing decision that for them works. No one is forced to make an
edit and Walmart is not forced, nor should any store be forced, to
When Apple sells something at the iTunes store, they tell you up front
that it has DRM. Walmart doesn't label their music or movies to tell
you that there are significant parts missing from the products. You don't
know until the package is open and not returnable.
Does Apple really tell you
Apple does not have a history of doing such things unless under duress.
That Apple won't allow anyone to legally virtualize OS X on *any* system is
just another massive coincidence.
Mind you, Apple is free do anything they want with their products or set up
any business model they want, as far
Ahh, so dismissive of Palin's people. If you don't know what it's like
to live in a community where a Wal-Mart forces the closing of many of
the local businesses, then stick with something you might know something
about.
Jeff Wright wrote:
Actually you are not. In many communities WalMart is
Walmart did not drive anyone anywhere.
What has happened is that in many small communities the merchants
have been so used to doing what they please they were not ready to
compete against Walmart.
I happen to live in one of those communities of what you
speak. (14K, next closest town, 25
I would suggest changing the word force, to give them little
option. No one can force me to do anything. I do it of my own free
will. Now do they have an effect on the local economy and the local
merchants, I think that is a valid and provable fact. (there have
been studies that have shown
Apple's attempt to quash an effort to help the latest iPods and iPhones
work with non-Apple software such as the Linux operating system is out of
line, the Electronic Frontier Foundation said Tuesday.
1) Apple is asserting that the DMCA prohibits these programmers from even
speaking about
So I'm supposed to go to some guys blog otherwise I can't complain? I
thought that's why I voted in real elections, not put some topics up on a
blog?
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you put down your marker against the DMCA at
ObamaCTO.org? If
Just because Apple asserts this is the case doesn't make it the case. It
seems pretty straightforward and the problem lies with the cost of defense
concerning this wiki site. How even if they are 100% in the right, fight a
company with as much money and lawyers as Apple? The truth isn't even
Hey, had you been paying attention to Tom all along, you would know
this is not just some guy's blog. Barack reads this! I was
thoroughly chastised for having doubted!
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:19 AM, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I'm supposed to go to some guys blog otherwise I can't
On Nov 26, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote:
I think there is a better chance of getting Apple to change course
than
there would be for most companies. A lot depends on what the sheeple
do.
I do not have a lot of faith in the sheeple.
Part of the problem with the public, the sheeple
Walmart and Amazon both have significant libraries that are DRM free. The
near monopoly Apple has(d) on digital tunes seems to have angered some of
the record companies and they have struck better deals elsewhere.
Mike
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On
Walmart and Amazon both have significant libraries that are DRM free.
The
near monopoly Apple has(d) on digital tunes seems to have angered some of
the record companies and they have struck better deals elsewhere.
Walmart is DRM free? Sure. They also edit all the
Not strictly true. They require artists who wish to sell via their
store to provide edited versions. Nothing evil about it, just a
marketing decision that for them works. No one is forced to make an
edit and Walmart is not forced, nor should any store be forced, to
sell what they do not
Actually Walmart doesn't edit anything. They sell the music the artists
edit themselves. Blame the artistsand you can blame them for the DMCA
as well.
Mike
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:31 PM, b_s-wilk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Walmart and Amazon both have significant libraries that are DRM
Not strictly true. They require artists who wish to sell via their
store to provide edited versions. Nothing evil about it, just a
marketing decision that for them works. No one is forced to make an
edit and Walmart is not forced, nor should any store be forced, to
sell what they do not
Are the edited versions indicated as such or are they passed off as
the real and original recording? If the edited versions are being
passed off as original, then that is deception.
Richard P.
Not strictly true. They require artists who wish to sell via their store to
provide edited
How often do you fly?
Did you know that airlines regularly edit movies that get shown on airplanes?
One of the reasons is that their customer base is really wide.
Some stuff is just not appropriate for certain people.
If that is what their customer base wants let them sell it. Does
that
Do you have any urls about the matter?
www.google.com/search?hl=enq=DMCA+prohibits+speech+about+circumvention
Yet, efforts to exercise those rights increasingly are being threatened
by section 1201 of the DMCA, which created the new crime of
circumvention. Section 1201 (a)(1), for example,
I think the radical left has it mixed up. 50 Cent could have said [EMAIL
PROTECTED] you
to walmart and not edited his album. Period.
Not sure why I threw in the radical left, but then I'm not sure why you
brought up the radical right. I'm starting to think with the sense you are
making
Walmart and Amazon both have significant libraries that are DRM free.
The near monopoly Apple has(d) on digital tunes seems to have angered some
of the record companies and they have struck better deals elsewhere.
What I don't understand is why anyone would buy Apple's crippled music in
the
I think you mix up freedom for people vs freedom for corporations. I
think one of the biggest mistakes of the radical right is the belief
that corporations should have the same rights as individuals. It leads to
individual rights getting trampled because the powers of corporations
are so much
I'll admit, I've found Amazon to be great and is now my default for
buying just about everything online. I've found beating the prices on
Amazon difficult, unless I waste my time (which is money) to do so.
Jeff M
On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:46 AM, mike wrote:
Walmart and Amazon both have
The problem is, the wiki site wasn't circumventing DRM. Apple sent a lawyer
swat team over holding briefcases of lies so they could strong arm a site to
do their bidding. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of the DMCA, but the
fact that this doesn't even fall under the DMCA. The wiki site
The way I've heard and read about this bit of history is the night
club owners started buy screwing the artists out of pay. This
continued with the record labels screwing the artists out of
royalties, then the artists screwing the labels back, who passed the
love on to the vendors, who of
Maybe this will change as so many demagogic grafters have been
voted out of office.
Do you mean the bill signed into law by the last Democratic administration,
which the current one seems to be intent on stuffing his administration full
of its leftovers? Have faith, brother, have faith.
One
Not strictly true. They require artists who wish to sell via their
store to provide edited versions. Nothing evil about it, just a
marketing decision that for them works. No one is forced to make an
edit and Walmart is not forced, nor should any store be forced, to
sell what they do not wish
On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:48 PM, mike wrote:
Actually Walmart doesn't edit anything. They sell the music the
artists
edit themselves. Blame the artistsand you can blame them for
the DMCA
as well.
I have to essentially disagree with that last sentence. Most
musical artists are
The problem is, the wiki site wasn't circumventing DRM.
It was discussing it. Under DMCA merely doing that is a crime.
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As Matthew already explained, quite clearly I thought, Wal-Mart is free to
make any demand it wants regarding the products and services it sells.
Providers of said products and services are free to agree or tell Wal-Mart
to take stick it in a sunless repository.
There you go. Thank you for
What I don't understand is why anyone would buy Apple's crippled music in
the first place. I never did. I would buy CDs, most often used, and rip
them instead of using iTunes.
Yep. I have Apple Store gift cards that sit unused because the terms are
so unappealing. If I want music I buy a
Not sure why I threw in the radical left, but then I'm not sure why you
brought up the radical right. I'm starting to think with the sense you are
making lately, that you are actually Keith Olbermann in Tom Piwowar's body.
Can't respond with logic so just make a personal attack.
I respond in kind with you Mr. Piwowar, you are the king of personal attacks
on this list. I bow to the master.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not sure why I threw in the radical left, but then I'm not sure why you
brought up the radical right. I'm
No, it wasn't. This is what I was talking about, you simply buy what Apple's
lawyers are selling. The site said they were going after the itunes library
file, not anything to do with the DRM. Does your mac fan boi baaa sound
anything like the WFB baaa? I would suspect so, both tools for the
I would have considered that a compliment, not an attack.
Jeff M
On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote:
Not sure why I threw in the radical left, but then I'm not sure why
you
brought up the radical right. I'm starting to think with the sense
you are
making lately, that
It was discussing it. Under DMCA merely doing that is a crime.
I don't think so. They weren't trying to crack the DRM, just the library
database. In other words, they weren't trying to get at the tunes, just the
-list- of tunes. I admit to not having read the DMCA in its entirety, but
I'd be
No, it wasn't. This is what I was talking about, you simply buy what Apple's
lawyers are selling...
The List's policy in this regard has been around for years. Find my write
up at cguys.org. If anything Apple is following me. Baa baa.
What are you talking about? You just keep buying...I've seen enough sheep
to known when I see one, Tom...baabaa. Keep backing up that DMCA, keep
spreading your FUD.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, it wasn't. This is what I was talking about, you
There you go. Thank you for proving my point.
Your point was...that you don't have one other than tin-foil hattery?
You live in lalaland.
What aisle is that on at Target? I think I saw it for sale on Amazon once,
but they didn't have free shipping, so I passed.
Knowledge--not censorship--leads to freedom.
Knowledge leads to more knowledge. It might lead to servitude if the wrong
parties gain access to the wrong knowledge. Knowledge without a moral or
ethical code to guide it is just data.
Self-important and self-appointed meddlers keeping their
After all the stores in the community were put out of business by
WalMart? Sure.
You should notify the Department of Buggy Whips and Candle Makers about such
things.
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Did you know that airlines regularly edit movies that get shown on airplanes?
Yes some people do object to such editing. I think this is an example of
something that is right on the edge of wrong or right. Airlines are not
in the business of selling movies to passengers (at least not yet). You
I don't think so. They weren't trying to crack the DRM, just the library
database. In other words, they weren't trying to get at the tunes, just the
-list- of tunes. I admit to not having read the DMCA in its entirety, but
I'd be pretty surprised if this was covered.
Then be surprised.
Actually you are not. In many communities WalMart is the only option.
WalMart drove everybody else out of business.
I would argue that these communities already had one foot on the commerce
banana peel if this is all it took.
Ted Stevens can tell you about this series of tubes that is driving
Knowledge leads to more knowledge. It might lead to servitude if the wrong
parties gain access to the wrong knowledge. Knowledge without a moral or
ethical code to guide it is just data.
Self-important and self-appointed meddlers keeping their noses out of other
people's consensual
There is no DRM on the library, try again, Tom.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think so. They weren't trying to crack the DRM, just the library
database. In other words, they weren't trying to get at the tunes, just
the
-list- of tunes. I admit
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