They have a bias that can be seen pretty easily. (Ask Tom about
their reviews and recommendations on Computers)
I think it only rational to evaluate CR based on how they rate things I
do know a lot about (yes, computers). In this area their bias has been so
blatent that it throws into
The problem I see with CR is that they have two completely different
approaches to products. One approach is to stress test products in a
controlled laboratory environment, while the other is to have
reviewers just play with products and report on how they
liked/disliked them. If you want to
CR will give you the results of their exhaustive testing. n
the other hand, if you want to find out which Merlot or Chardonnay is
best, maybe you should check out Food Wine Magazine. On that note, I
put personal computers and software in the latter category.
I agree. I get all my computer
I've been a car nut all my life and been reading about cars in
newspapers, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Consumer Reports for 40
years. I've owned around 15, and driven and ridden in a couple dozen
more. I'm sure many or most people disagree with me but my perception is
that as far as
Alvin Auerbach wrote:
...from what I could tell.
As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports
(CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has
auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own
test track. No individual can do all
David K Watson
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer
satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more.
Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the
Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the
Xbox models. That also
Aren't the Xbox's legendary for the red ring of death?
There was some discussion of this. The main cause for the legendary RRODs
was a bad custom IC that is no longer used. Some members here presented
anecdotal evidence that there are still problems, but others (including me)
had contrary
I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for
decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all
the time. The only auto with high quality was made in Japan or Germany.
For years now that mistaken notion has been
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer
satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more.
I did not expect this to turn into a gaming discussion, but if this is
the only market segment where MS might excel, so be it.
Does anyone expect the OnLive Micro
This sounds like a killer idea. Not only could it spell trouble for those
but also for the larger gaming market, those of us who build our own gaming
systems. I can't see ever spending 400 dollars on a console that is frozen
in time when I can build my own.
That said, doing what they say they
On top of everything else, there is the bandwith problem...are the cable
companies going to just allow this kind of bandwith to go?
OnLive claims to have found an ultra compressed video format so bandwidth
should not be a problem, but as you say, monthly caps could be a problem
for serious
They need to go after every cable company that offers anyt\ype of
service because what they claim and what they deliver are two different things.
Stewart
At 03:00 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote:
OnLive claims to have found an ultra compressed video format so bandwidth
should not be a problem, but as
Does anyone expect the OnLive Micro Console and similar server-based
solutions to spell the end for products like the XBox and PS?
This could certainly be the end of consoles--IF they can deliver frames and
respond to user actions fast enough. Gamers won't tolerate any significant
lag,
Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high quality.
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
I think the answer to this one is similar to one I have seen for
decades. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
Consumer Reports would always knock and rate US produced Autos all the
time. The only
That is one of the reasons Satellite modem service has not made the
inroads into High speeds service (Plus their high price) too much
lag in service.
Stewart
At 03:46 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote:
This could certainly be the end of consoles--IF they can deliver frames and
respond to user
Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high quality.
Where have you read that they are not? Should not the accuser be the one
who must provide the evidence?
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I need to inject here. I have read some good things about American
autos in places like Road Track and etc. type magazines. However I
take these with a grain of salt over my personal experiences. I've
owned quite a few cars over my 47 years on the planet. Some of the
best ones have been
They have been putting out some very good automobiles. They rate very
highly in customer satisfaction survey's.
Plus I have owned a few (YMMV) and have not had problems with them.
Stewart
At 04:09 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote:
Please tell me where you have read that American autos are high
...from what I could tell.
As individuals, our car yarns are anecdotes. When Consumer Reports
(CR) collects all of those anecdotes, they become statistics. CR has
auto test engineers who test the cars in CR's own lab and on CR's own
test track. No individual can do all of that. No
Where have you read that they are not? Should not the accuser be
the one who must provide the evidence?
OFF TOPIC -- HALT!
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Do you only buy products CR recommends? Do you own anything they have
given a poor rating to only to have the opposite experience? I have
heard anecdotes about CR not being so unbiased. Or course those are
only anecdotes. I take CR with a grain of salt. From what I've seen
(just my
Yes and no.
They have a bias that can be seen pretty easily. (Ask Tom about
their reviews and recommendations on Computers)
They will gather all the data, and then when it comes to the American
Automobiles they rate them lower based on their bias than a
comparable foreign auto. (I used to
I dunno. As the mother of four boys that have
been doing the whole game system thing since
the Atari/Pong days, according to my kids, plus
all of their friends for nigh on too many years
to mention, our current XBox is better than
anything that's come before. According to them,
I dunno. As the mother of four boys that have
been doing the whole game system thing since
the Atari/Pong days, according to my kids, plus
all of their friends for nigh on too many years
to mention, our current XBox is better than
anything that's come before. According to
MS certainly has. Most obviously, they neglected InternetExplorer for
years and are now playing catch up. Waiting years for Vista and then
getting a flop is another. They are behind in cloud computing. Their
search engine is a very distant third so they are really back in the
pack
with many
However those IC's still fail in those units.
Both my Son-in-law and his friend had theirs crash in the last 3
months.
One extended warranty one not.
Stewart
Well, your son et al have been most unlucky. All I can say is that our
anecdotal evidence is quite different from yours, and
We get it, Tom. MS sucks.
You said it, I didn't.
It is also noteworthy that you can only dredge up one MS *product of
quality* and that assertion for the XBox is questionable.
You make the above point better than I ever could.
The Wii and Xbox are less competitors and more companions. The reason the
Wii numbers are so high? Yes it's cool, and different and all that, but
it's also a LOT of users second game machine. It was never meant to compete
with the xbox or ps 3.
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Chris Dunford
The Wii and Xbox are less competitors and more
companions. The reason the Wii numbers are so
high? Yes it's cool, and different and all that,
but it's also a LOT of users second game machine.
It was never meant to compete with the xbox or ps 3.
I think that's true to an extent,
Now you are pushing it.
Our local cable outlet does not even have over the cable Digital you
must use the box that they loan you.
HD? What is that? Again not even on the horizon.
Seriously looking at DISH but there are some drawbacks at this point.
Stewart
At 10:41 PM 4/1/2009, you
As is the case with my son-in-law.
Stewart
At 01:41 AM 4/2/2009, you wrote:
The Wii and Xbox are less competitors and more companions. The reason the
Wii numbers are so high? Yes it's cool, and different and all that, but
it's also a LOT of users second game machine. It was never meant to
Our local cable outlet does not even have over the cable Digital you
must use the box that they loan you.
HD? What is that? Again not even on the horizon.
Seriously looking at DISH but there are some drawbacks at this point.
Perhaps I should have said, ONE can even use it for HDTV
Never mind my rant. Our Cable system has declared Bankruptcy and is
not expected to improve or change anything for the good for sometime.
The local entity is hopeful that another cable system will come into
town and offer better service.
Stewart
At 07:10 AM 4/2/2009, you wrote:
Our
In any event, whether this is true or not, TP's statement that Xbox lost
out to Wii was uninformed and rather foolish--unless he's talking about
sales.
MS loses $$$ on every unit sold. What is it about losing that you don't
understand? Do they lose money on every unit, but make it up in volume?
Every once in awhile Tom does get a funny one off.
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that the xbox history of build
quality isn't something to be desired also. I was in a best buy around the
first xbox release and both customer trial units had red rings of death.
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at
Many bit the April Fools article on M$ soliciting TARP funds...
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
In any event, whether this is true or not, TP's statement that Xbox
lost out to Wii was uninformed and rather foolish--unless he's
talking about sales.
MS loses $$$ on every unit
In any event, whether this is true or not, TP's
statement that Xbox lost out to Wii was
uninformed and rather foolish--unless he's talking
about sales.
MS loses $$$ on every unit sold. What is it about losing that you don't
understand? Do they lose money on every unit, but make it up in
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that the xbox
history of build quality isn't something to be desired
also. I was in a best buy around the first xbox release
and both customer trial units had red rings of
death.
There was an issue with a custom IC that failed in the early boxes. MS
truly costs.
Dictated but not read!
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Dunford
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:05 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool
irrelevancy about sales and profits
Sales and profits are only irrelevancies when MS isn't making them.
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irrelevancy about sales and profits
Sales and profits are only irrelevancies when MS isn't making them.
I guess that's a roundabout way of admitting that you can't defend your
statement. Thanks.
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The ring of death has visited my 360 three times in 2 and a half years.
M$ has gotten better in turnaround time but losing a
gaming/entertainment system for weeks at a time really blowz. I
personally would have liked a ps3 but the $$$ didn't make sense at the
time. This IMHO is what frugality
PC mag and several others put the failure rate as high as 33% for the 360.
Arstechnica reported as high as 16% and at the time MS pledged 1 billion to
fix the xbox line.
PC mag and several others put the failure rate as high as 33% for the
360. Arstechnica reported as high as 16% and at the time MS pledged 1
billion to fix the xbox line.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2007/07/microsoft-shares-360-defect-
However those IC's still fail in those units.
Both my Son-in-law and his friend had theirs crash in the last 3 months.
One extended warranty one not.
Stewart
At 07:35 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote:
PC mag and several others put the failure rate as high as 33% for the
360. Arstechnica reported as
I dunno. As the mother of four boys that have been doing the whole game
system thing since the Atari/Pong days, according to my kids, plus all of
their
friends for nigh on too many years to mention, our current XBox is better
than anything that's come before. According to them, the
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer
satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more.
Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the
Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the
Xbox models. That also seems to be the
One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer
satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more.
Where do you get your figures? I looked on amazon, and the
Wii had better customer satisfaction ratings there than any of the
Xbox models. That also seems to be
WII seems to be outselling any of the gamer type machines right now,
but I think that is because your non typical buyer is standing in
line to buy it. (read over 50 years old)
Incidentally, no one cares about those of us who are over 50, so sales to we
nearly-dead don't count. We aren't in
Comparing the Xbox with the WII is not a fair comparison.
They serve different purposes and really are aimed at two different
groups.
I think it's just as fair as comparing an iMac to an HP laptop, don't you?
:)
Anyway, it was Tom who made the initial comparison. I was just pointing out
Well I don't know about all the money plus I am not yet an empty nester.
But yeah you are right, no one seems to market to us except AARP!
Stewart
At 02:48 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
WII seems to be outselling any of the gamer type machines right now,
but I think that is because your non
But yeah you are right, no one seems to market to us except AARP!
Right, I forgot about them. AARP and the wheelie chair guys, Hoveround.
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I like their mice.
I do too.
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Their keyboards and mice are one of only two brands I will
buy. Logitech is the other one.
And Keytronic?
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Incidentally, no one cares about those of us who are over 50, so sales to we
nearly-dead don't count. We aren't in anyone's target demographic. Even
though we have all the money. :)
Not true. One of my clients is a magazine whos circulation skews to the
seniors. There are many businesses who are
As WFBs constantly remind us, raw sales numbers
are all that counts.
You make my point. You dispute this view in PC v. Mac but endorse it in Xbox
v. Wii. The only thing that's consistent is that MS loses no matter what.
Uhhh...aren't we the target audience for Cialis and Viagra, Embril, Enablex,
etc., ad nauseam! lol
Donna
In a message dated 4/1/2009 7:26:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
popoz...@earthlink.net writes:
That's about right.
Enjoy your golden years!
Stewart
At 06:00 PM 4/1/2009, you
The same with the PS3.
Xbox made marketing smarts with the Netflixs deal.
Stewart
At 07:07 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
Anyway, it was Tom who made the initial comparison. I was just pointing out
that his conclusion conflicts with his verdict in the case of PC v. Mac. In
the case of computers,
Some of those I do not use the others I cannot afford.
Stewart
At 07:26 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
Uhhh...aren't we the target audience for Cialis and Viagra, Embril, Enablex,
etc., ad nauseam! lol
Donna
Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace
I only brought up sales figures to give the
WFBs an opportunity to admit that sales numbers
are not what is important.
Nope. Gotta love how you make stuff up. I brought up sales numbers, not you,
and only because it's the only conceivable measure by which you could say
that Xbox lost to
Not only that but Netflix is allowing members to use a Xbox a lot
like an Apple TV.
Son in Law did that and loved it. He also uses it as his DVD player,
no extra equipment.
By the way on a 46 TV it looks awesome.
Stewart
At 09:04 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
Absolutely. Video quality, audio
You make my point. You dispute this view in PC v. Mac but endorse it in Xbox
v. Wii. The only thing that's consistent is that MS loses no matter what.
You are having trouble following obvious logic. I think you are an
autoresponder in need of better programming.
Yup - it is ultimately game play that sustains interest in a game
system. The rest is chrome.
On Apr 1, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
Video quality, audio quality, number of voices, smoothness and
responsiveness, connectivity, none of that irrelevant crap really
matters in
Not only that but Netflix is allowing members to use a Xbox a lot
like an Apple TV.
Son in Law did that and loved it. He also uses it as his DVD player,
no extra equipment.
By the way on a 46 TV it looks awesome.
It is indeed, I've seen it.
You can even use it as a receiver/DVR for
Not best but in the top 5.
Their keyboards and mice are one of only two brands I will
buy. Logitech is the other one.
Stewart
At 08:52 PM 3/31/2009, you wrote:
Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its
category? I can't think of anything.
As I suspected. The
Xbox lost out to Wii.
Well, now this is a really interesting conclusion.
We (wii?) have both, and there is no comparison. Except for the wiimotes,
which really are pretty cool, Xbox is superior in *every* respect. As in
blows it away. Side-by-side with the Xbox's HD graphics, the Wii looks like
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