Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Agreed every time I have Itunes update I have to turn off the Itunes 
software that interfaces with MP3 players.  No option to not turn 
them off, I have to go into MSconfig and turn them off.


Almost as bad as realplayer.

Stewart

At 02:41 PM 9/29/2009, you wrote:

No, for both those examples I *want* updates to install with virtually
no user interaction. Ditto Windows itself. And, for internet-facing
machines, Quicktime also, but this is where the problem lies. QT
doesn't just quietly keep itself updated. Instead, it uses this Apple
updater which gets in your face and installs unwanted software by
default.

It's fantasy to believe every average computer user should (or could)
read and understand every time these damn things come up - which is
often. Go ahead and include your suggestions in your updater if you
want, but don't ever have them selected by default.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:55 PM, David K Watson
 wrote:
> never notice it unless you needed it. Do you complain this much
> every time Firefox updates itself unnecessarily?  Do you go
> through the roof every time Adobe's updater nags you about an
> available update?


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[Tony B]

No, for both those examples I *want* updates to install with virtually
no user interaction. Ditto Windows itself. And, for internet-facing
machines, Quicktime also, but this is where the problem lies. QT
doesn't just quietly keep itself updated. Instead, it uses this Apple
updater which gets in your face and installs unwanted software by
default.

It's fantasy to believe every average computer user should (or could)
read and understand every time these damn things come up - which is
often. Go ahead and include your suggestions in your updater if you
want, but don't ever have them selected by default.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:55 PM, David K Watson
 wrote:
> never notice it unless you needed it. Do you complain this much
> every time Firefox updates itself unnecessarily?  Do you go
> through the roof every time Adobe's updater nags you about an
> available update?


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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:28 PM, mike  wrote:

> Let's be clear.  The complaint wasn't about updating software currently on
> your system, it was about trying to install programs that you do not have
> and are completely unrelated to what you do have already installed.
>
> I've never owned a pc built by HP or Dell or anyone else, I've always built
> my pc's myself.  Are you saying the HP you owned would install NEW software
> you did not already have installed or was updating software on your system
> already?  Also, there is a very easy solution to these so called
> undocumented programs...hit the start button.
>
> A new HP comes with a lot of crap ware hence the existence of
pcdecrappifier-  .  They don't seem to do it
retroactively but some of this stuff crawls out from under the rocks it was
hiding under after a few years.  I couldn't get it to stop opening the MS
Office 90 day test drive when I clicked on a text file long after I selected
open office.
-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[David K Watson]

Late to the party here, but:

First of all, it's a tiny little application, and is practically an  
iTunes
plugin.  Future versions of iTunes will likely have it built in and  
you'd

never notice it unless you needed it. Do you complain this much
every time Firefox updates itself unnecessarily?  Do you go
through the roof every time Adobe's updater nags you about an
available update?

Secondly, instead of just canceling it the one time you saw it,
you could have permanently disabled the update.  I know
Safari, iTunes and QuickTime are not on the MS approved list,
but they are here and they are useful for many people, so you
should at least take 10 minutes to learn how to deal with Apple's
updater, just as you must have spent some much greater amount
of time learning to deal with the likes of (in increasing order of
annoyance) Sun, Mozilla, Adobe, RealNetworks, Microsoft.

As a side note, while it is called iPhone Configuration Utility and
is touted as an enterprise tool, it is also for iPod touches and
reportedly is very popular with college network admins.

You're probably deathly afraid of Bonjour too, and disable it on
your printers and systems because it makes the printers unnaturally
easy to use.



From:Tony B 

Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?

I first noticed this last week on a client machine. I simply canceled
it, but worried that when it came back the less savvy user at that
machine might install it. Sure enough, after reading this story, I
just logged in to that machine and it's been installed! ARGH. Maybe
time to close down this rogue outfit for good.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/09/apple-pushes-unwanted-enterprise-tool-to-windows-users.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss




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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[b_s-wilk]

Are you saying the HP you owned would install NEW software
you did not already have installed or was updating software on your system
already?  Also, there is a very easy solution to these so called
undocumented programs...hit the start button.


The Windows PCs don't have a list of preinstalled software [Dell doesn't 
count--it a was used PC], and they can do updates without permission 
depending on OS and user. Yes, I can go to Start, but why not disclose 
info without searching? The new PCs didn't even have install disks--had 
to make my own. All my Macs had install disks, plus extras.


The confusion is with the name of the app, "Apple Software Update", not 
with the choices it gives--and they're choices, not backdoor secret 
installations. ASU description sez: "Call it a Software Update...In 
addition to releasing new versions of the system software at regular 
intervals, Apple also releases a stream of free software updates to 
enrich your computing experience..."


ASU doesn't necessarily search your computer before giving a list. It 
shows a list of software available for your system whether the original 
is installed or not [exception is updates to installed OS]. You can 
CHOOSE whether or not to install. I wouldn't know about many useful 
items unless they told me. It's easier to install/update software from 
the ASU app instead of downloading and using a stand-alone installer.



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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[db]

How and why did they do that?

db

Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. wrote:

Actually, on PC's that update request (or automatic) is a function of how one installed 
the Apple app in the first place.  (It became VERY evident to those using Palm Pre's when 
Apple decided to "update" software to render Palm's connectivity impossible.)

Eschew Obfuscation

This is a reply from: 
Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. 
  Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization


  703.548.1343 voice 
  703.783.1340 fax 
  


>From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are 
YOUR adjuvancy

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On 
Behalf Of b_s-wilk
Sent: 09/29/2009 10:37 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

  

Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?



I'm outraged that some Windows programs update without informing users! 
And our HP notebook came with dozens of undocumented programs installed, 
not even a list of software in a ReadMe file.


Apple doesn't do that. Any program that's listed in Apple Software 
Update is a *suggestion* which you can install or ignore. I usually 
install 1/2 of their suggestions and delete the rest. Third parties also 
recommend software that I might want to install too--or not.


Must be a really slow day at Ars Technica to bother with such a 
nonissue. The editor who came up with the headline should be slapped 
with a handful of wet spaghetti.



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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[mike]

Let's be clear.  The complaint wasn't about updating software currently on
your system, it was about trying to install programs that you do not have
and are completely unrelated to what you do have already installed.

I've never owned a pc built by HP or Dell or anyone else, I've always built
my pc's myself.  Are you saying the HP you owned would install NEW software
you did not already have installed or was updating software on your system
already?  Also, there is a very easy solution to these so called
undocumented programs...hit the start button.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:37 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

> Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
>> pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?
>>
>
> I'm outraged that some Windows programs update without informing users! And
> our HP notebook came with dozens of undocumented programs installed, not
> even a list of software in a ReadMe file.
>
> Apple doesn't do that. Any program that's listed in Apple Software Update
> is a *suggestion* which you can install or ignore. I usually install 1/2 of
> their suggestions and delete the rest. Third parties also recommend software
> that I might want to install too--or not.
>
> Must be a really slow day at Ars Technica to bother with such a nonissue.
> The editor who came up with the headline should be slapped with a handful of
> wet spaghetti.
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A.]

Actually, on PC's that update request (or automatic) is a function of how one 
installed the Apple app in the first place.  (It became VERY evident to those 
using Palm Pre's when Apple decided to "update" software to render Palm's 
connectivity impossible.)

Eschew Obfuscation

This is a reply from: 
Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. 
  Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for 
the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization

  703.548.1343 voice 
  703.783.1340 fax 
  

>From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are 
>YOUR adjuvancy

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On 
Behalf Of b_s-wilk
Sent: 09/29/2009 10:37 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

> Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
> pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?

I'm outraged that some Windows programs update without informing users! 
And our HP notebook came with dozens of undocumented programs installed, 
not even a list of software in a ReadMe file.

Apple doesn't do that. Any program that's listed in Apple Software 
Update is a *suggestion* which you can install or ignore. I usually 
install 1/2 of their suggestions and delete the rest. Third parties also 
recommend software that I might want to install too--or not.

Must be a really slow day at Ars Technica to bother with such a 
nonissue. The editor who came up with the headline should be slapped 
with a handful of wet spaghetti.


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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[b_s-wilk]

Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?


I'm outraged that some Windows programs update without informing users! 
And our HP notebook came with dozens of undocumented programs installed, 
not even a list of software in a ReadMe file.


Apple doesn't do that. Any program that's listed in Apple Software 
Update is a *suggestion* which you can install or ignore. I usually 
install 1/2 of their suggestions and delete the rest. Third parties also 
recommend software that I might want to install too--or not.


Must be a really slow day at Ars Technica to bother with such a 
nonissue. The editor who came up with the headline should be slapped 
with a handful of wet spaghetti.



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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[Paul Cannon]

Would you stamp your feet if everytime you walked into Safeway with an empty 
shopping
and Safeway filled it with Pepsi or Coke and left you with the task of 
unloading the cart?

The proper method would be to leave the box unchecked by default since it is 
not an update but rather an install.
Since this is an enterprise tool, there is no appropriate reason to install it 
for home users.
The default should be no installation unless it is a security update.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 01:08:58AM -0400, t.piwowar wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Tony B wrote:
>> Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
>> pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?
>
> You heard about it on Glenn Beck?
>
> Apple is not pushing anything on anybody. It is providing a list of  
> currently available software downloads and patches that it believes are 
> appropriate for the particular computer. You are free to say "yes" or 
> "no.". That is a big difference than some companies forcing software onto 
> their customers computers.
>
> By your silly WFB logic you -- as a Coke drinker -- would be condemning 
> Safeway for stocking Pepsi. "How dare they offer to sell me a product I 
> do not want!" Stamp your feet.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:36 AM, mike  wrote:

> They are pushing it out as an update, an appropriate computer would be one
> that already has the software on it and requires an update.

  The dialog box does contain the word "update."  One could assume
that is intended to indicate that the Apple software is already
installed and a new version is available.  That could be confusing,
especially if the software package has never been previously
installed.

  Adobe is constantly having it's Adode Reader pushed upon computer
users.  That is accomplished by claims that in order to read any PDF
document, Adobe Reader is required.  You will see that claim made on
almost any website that offers documents in PDF format.  Those sites
could simply say that a PDF reader is required, but instead, they say
that the Adobe Reader is required, and offer a link complete with the
Adobe logo for users to click on to get the reader download.

  As has been stated on this site many times before, when it comes to
commercialization, there are almost no limits.  For some fun and
enlightenment, search on "Yes Men."

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[mike]

They are pushing it out as an update, an appropriate computer would be one
that already has the software on it and requires an update.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:08 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Tony B wrote:
>
>> Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
>> pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?
>>
>
> You heard about it on Glenn Beck?
>
> Apple is not pushing anything on anybody. It is providing a list of
> currently available software downloads and patches that it believes are
> appropriate for the particular computer. You are free to say "yes" or "no.".
> That is a big difference than some companies forcing software onto their
> customers computers.
>
> By your silly WFB logic you -- as a Coke drinker -- would be condemning
> Safeway for stocking Pepsi. "How dare they offer to sell me a product I do
> not want!" Stamp your feet.
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[t.piwowar]

On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Tony B wrote:

Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?


You heard about it on Glenn Beck?

Apple is not pushing anything on anybody. It is providing a list of  
currently available software downloads and patches that it believes  
are appropriate for the particular computer. You are free to say "yes"  
or "no.". That is a big difference than some companies forcing  
software onto their customers computers.


By your silly WFB logic you -- as a Coke drinker -- would be  
condemning Safeway for stocking Pepsi. "How dare they offer to sell me  
a product I do not want!" Stamp your feet.



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[CGUYS] Apple pushes unwanted enterprise tool to Windows users

[Tony B]

Yet again. If this were MS pulling this stunt, they would certainly be
pilloried. And probably sued by the EU. Where's the outrage here?

I first noticed this last week on a client machine. I simply canceled
it, but worried that when it came back the less savvy user at that
machine might install it. Sure enough, after reading this story, I
just logged in to that machine and it's been installed! ARGH. Maybe
time to close down this rogue outfit for good.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/09/apple-pushes-unwanted-enterprise-tool-to-windows-users.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss


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