Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
Quoting Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com: But there are so many better (and even free) languages available: Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc. There is no good reason to continue to use old junk. Except for a refusal to keep up with technology and I won't be supporting that. Learning new languages keeps your skills fresh and helps get jobs done faster. Tom, haven't you, on numerous occasions, proudly proclaimed that you still use a 1.0 version of an email app (Claris?) because it does what you need? (Of course it's been a while, so maybe you've moved on.) I use an orphaned email program (PM Mail) that uses 8.3 file names, but then again, it generates it's own file names, so that's not really an issue. If I have a folder called cguys keepers, on disk it'll be cguys_k0.fld or some such. I use it because it keeps each individual email as a separate text file. If I get something that I don't trust , I can open Notepad and look at it. Still works in Win7. The best part about it, is that it's cross platform compatible with--wait for it--OS/2. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
funny you talkabout 5.1 ...I just downloaded 5.1forDOS which is posted4free and works perfectly on my xpSP3 machine in a dos window...now, I hafta remember all those old keystrokes I usta know so well ...I loved some of it, like the ability to place the cursor anywhere and delete the rest ...great for editing text... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu At 05:29 AM 3/1/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich Hey, I'm still using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS on a DOS machine, printing to an LX29000 printer. I use it whenever I want to make something look good. If it only has to be legible, I use MSWord on my Windows machine, which is most of the time. I'm sure I could make stuff look good using a high end graphics package on Windows, but I don't want the cost nor the learning curve for that. WP 5.1 does just fine. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
Can you switch the display into 132-column mode in the DOS box? Fred Holmes At 12:38 PM 3/2/2009, rleesimon wrote: funny you talkabout 5.1 ...I just downloaded 5.1forDOS which is posted4free and works perfectly on my xpSP3 machine in a dos window...now, I hafta remember all those old keystrokes I usta know so well ...I loved some of it, like the ability to place the cursor anywhere and delete the rest great for editing text... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu At 05:29 AM 3/1/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich Hey, I'm still using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS on a DOS machine, printing to an LX29000 printer. I use it whenever I want to make something look good. If it only has to be legible, I use MSWord on my Windows machine, which is most of the time. I'm sure I could make stuff look good using a high end graphics package on Windows, but I don't want the cost nor the learning curve for that. WP 5.1 does just fine. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
You are of course correct. Never use what works fast or quick and dirty, when you can spend the time learning something new. And not spend that time on enjoying life. Short term advantage vs. long term advantage. I can understand that argument. If you expect to die in the short term you should not bother to learn anything new. Better to invest all your time in repenting. I'm young enough to still see the benefit in improving my skills. Repenting would not be a good use of my time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
I went into the prefs and saw only a variety of 80 column selections ...possibly there is a command line parameter for starting the program with your filespec ...I didn't come upon it... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:27 PM To: rleesimon Cc: 'Computer Guys Discussion List' Subject: RE: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu Can you switch the display into 132-column mode in the DOS box? Fred Holmes At 12:38 PM 3/2/2009, rleesimon wrote: funny you talkabout 5.1 ...I just downloaded 5.1forDOS which is posted4free and works perfectly on my xpSP3 machine in a dos window...now, I hafta remember all those old keystrokes I usta know so well ...I loved some of it, like the ability to place the cursor anywhere and delete the rest great for editing text... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu At 05:29 AM 3/1/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich Hey, I'm still using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS on a DOS machine, printing to an LX29000 printer. I use it whenever I want to make something look good. If it only has to be legible, I use MSWord on my Windows machine, which is most of the time. I'm sure I could make stuff look good using a high end graphics package on Windows, but I don't want the cost nor the learning curve for that. WP 5.1 does just fine. Fred Holmes *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
In order for that preference to be displayed, WP 5.1 must see a video card/driver that is capable of 132-column text mode. That has long since been dropped in Windows, I believe. It's one of the the things that keeps my DOS machine alive. Fred Holmes At 08:04 PM 3/2/2009, rleesimon wrote: I went into the prefs and saw only a variety of 80 column selections possibly there is a command line parameter for starting the program with your filespec ...I didn't come upon it... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:27 PM To: rleesimon Cc: 'Computer Guys Discussion List' Subject: RE: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu Can you switch the display into 132-column mode in the DOS box? Fred Holmes At 12:38 PM 3/2/2009, rleesimon wrote: funny you talkabout 5.1 ...I just downloaded 5.1forDOS which is posted4free and works perfectly on my xpSP3 machine in a dos window...now, I hafta remember all those old keystrokes I usta know so well ...I loved some of it, like the ability to place the cursor anywhere and delete the rest great for editing text... -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes [mailto:f...@his.com] Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu At 05:29 AM 3/1/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich Hey, I'm still using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS on a DOS machine, printing to an LX29000 printer. I use it whenever I want to make something look good. If it only has to be legible, I use MSWord on my Windows machine, which is most of the time. I'm sure I could make stuff look good using a high end graphics package on Windows, but I don't want the cost nor the learning curve for that. WP 5.1 does just fine. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
From:Chris Dunford ch...@covesoftware.com Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux In fact, yes. I have two apps that I use every day that have not been updated in many years but still do exactly what I want with no fuss. - Date:Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:36:48 -0500 From:Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com Details? Do the apps have names? If you will pardon me, based on your past history I don't put any stock in your vague assertions. These apps are essential, irreplaceable, and will not work without an 8.3 file name? Or are you just too lazy to upgrade? - I have one that works on Vista and requires the 8.3 filename and won't accept anything else. Intuit Quickbooks version 5.0, Installed from floppy disks and does exactly what I need to bill and keep track of my clients. Of course it has not had any updates for over 5 years but I still use it daily and back it up religiously. Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
Rich, Thanks for answering the question! Rich Schinnell wrote: From:Chris Dunford ch...@covesoftware.com Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linux In fact, yes. I have two apps that I use every day that have not been updated in many years but still do exactly what I want with no fuss. - Date:Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:36:48 -0500 From:Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com Details? Do the apps have names? If you will pardon me, based on your past history I don't put any stock in your vague assertions. These apps are essential, irreplaceable, and will not work without an 8.3 file name? Or are you just too lazy to upgrade? - I have one that works on Vista and requires the 8.3 filename and won't accept anything else. Intuit Quickbooks version 5.0, Installed from floppy disks and does exactly what I need to bill and keep track of my clients. Of course it has not had any updates for over 5 years but I still use it daily and back it up religiously. Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 01:42 PM 3/1/2009, you wrote: Date:Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:19:32 -0500 From:Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com Subject: Re: Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu Rich said: Of course it has not had any updates for over 5 years but I still use it daily and back it up religiously. Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. TP said: Question: If you use an 8.3 file name, refraining from using a longer name, will these applications be able to access the file? In other words do these applications need some special sauce in their filenames or will they work if you simply refrain from using longer names? They will not access a files called data12~1.xxx as the ~ mark won't seem to work in some of the programs, Basic can read a 8.3 file with the ~ PS: I still use gwbasic.exe and write programs in Basic. Works.. and basic requires the 8.3. I have written many basic programs to read and write windows files. I just enjoy a simple solution to a complicated problem. Most windows programs are completely satisfied if you use a 8.3 filename. Rich * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
They will not access a files called data12~1.xxx as the ~ mark won't seem to work in some of the programs, Basic can read a 8.3 file with the ~ But you don't have to use a tilda. You can just use something like thisfile.doc and have a file that works with either system. PS: I still use gwbasic.exe and write programs in Basic. Works.. and basic requires the 8.3. I have written many basic programs to read and write windows files. I just enjoy a simple solution to a complicated problem. But there are so many better (and even free) languages available: Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc. There is no good reason to continue to use old junk. Except for a refusal to keep up with technology and I won't be supporting that. Learning new languages keeps your skills fresh and helps get jobs done faster. Most windows programs are completely satisfied if you use a 8.3 filename. Exactly. TomTom should just drop the 8.3 thing and get MS off its back. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 2:59 PM -0500 3/1/09, Tom Piwowar wrote: But there are so many better (and even free) languages available: Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc. There is no good reason to continue to use old junk. Except for a refusal to keep up with technology and I won't be supporting that. Learning new languages keeps your skills fresh and helps get jobs done faster. Learning new languages entails a learning curve; you can't get the job done faster until you have become fluent in the new language. Admittedly, the only way to BECOME fluent is to use the damn thing. One hand for the keyboard, and one to hold the manual. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
Learning new languages entails a learning curve; you can't get the job done faster until you have become fluent in the new language. Admittedly, the only way to BECOME fluent is to use the damn thing. One hand for the keyboard, and one to hold the manual. I would not subscribe to any ideolofy that opposes learning, but I do understand how the 8.3 crowd could feel that way. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 05:29 AM 3/1/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: Also a friend who is over 80, uses a really old word processor that requires the 8.3 file format and only prints to a parallel connected printer. And it does everything she wants. I have tried to bring her into the 21st century but she resists. Rich Hey, I'm still using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS on a DOS machine, printing to an LX29000 printer. I use it whenever I want to make something look good. If it only has to be legible, I use MSWord on my Windows machine, which is most of the time. I'm sure I could make stuff look good using a high end graphics package on Windows, but I don't want the cost nor the learning curve for that. WP 5.1 does just fine. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 01:19 PM 3/1/2009, Tom Piwowar wrote: Question: If you use an 8.3 file name, refraining from using a longer name, will these applications be able to access the file? In other words do these applications need some special sauce in their filenames or will they work if you simply refrain from using longer names? The real problem I have with running legacy DOS apps on a Windows machine is those applications that talk to only MDA and CGA video, i.e., were never upgraded to VGA video (or I don't like the other changes that were made to the app when it was upgraded to talk to VGA video. DOSBox is the only application/shell I've found that solves this problem for me. It doesn't solve the problem of printing to a DOS printer (which is all a DOS app will do), but I've Googled apps that promise to do that (create that interface). Since my DOS machine is still working, I haven't yet paid the cost for one of these apps and tried it. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 05:43 PM 3/1/2009, Tom Piwowar wrote: I would not subscribe to any ideolofy that opposes learning, but I do understand how the 8.3 crowd could feel that way. It really has to do with time management. My life is totally full. Even though I am retired. Learning a new programming language (or user interface to a program) requires a significant investment of time. To invest that time, I have to take it away from something else. What? In many instances one just can't justify the trade-off. The better is the enemy of the 'good enough'. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
I haven't followed this entire thread, but if the legacy application only understands 8.3 filenames, can't one just manually restrict the file naming to 8.3, I would think so, but then why would TomTom risk getting sued bt MS for something so useless. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
Can one load Win2K or XP into a virtual machine on XP and run legacy apps that way? Including legacy hardware such as older printers? I'm told by people who run virtual servers that this is exactly what they do when somebody insists that they can't live without something ancient. They run this on Sun hardware. I imagine somebody in your situation might find it works best on a MacMini. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
At 07:13 PM 3/1/2009, you wrote: Date:Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:59:18 -0500 From:Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com They will not access a files called data12~1.xxx as the ~ mark won't seem to work in some of the programs, Basic can read a 8.3 file with the ~ But you don't have to use a tilda. You can just use something like thisfile.doc and have a file that works with either system. if you have lots of files, thisfile.doc won't do it especially when I want the name to be close to it's purpose. PS: I still use gwbasic.exe and write programs in Basic. Works.. and basic requires the 8.3. I have written many basic programs to read and write windows files. I just enjoy a simple solution to a complicated problem. But there are so many better (and even free) languages available: Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc. There is no good reason to continue to use old junk. Except for a refusal to keep up with technology and I won't be supporting that. Learning new languages keeps your skills fresh and helps get jobs done faster. You are of course correct. Never use what works fast or quick and dirty, when you can spend the time learning something new. And not spend that time on enjoying life. Very similar to not using notepad for editing web pages instead using some sophisticated program that takes hours to learn and use properly. I could probably use cobol or fortran but prefer basic as I can compile it into a .exe program to give out.. Most windows programs are completely satisfied if you use a 8.3 filename. Exactly. TomTom should just drop the 8.3 thing and get MS off its back. I kinda think it was not the 8.3 thingie but the relationship to the expanded version of the file name. Rich * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
In fact, yes. I have two apps that I use every day that have not been updated in many years but still do exactly what I want with no fuss. Details? Do the apps have names? If you will pardon me, based on your past history I don't put any stock in your vague assertions. These apps are essential, irreplaceable, and will not work without an 8.3 file name? Or are you just too lazy to upgrade? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Anyone for 8.3? [Was: MS Sues TomTom for Using Linu
In fact, yes. I have two apps that I use every day that have not been updated in many years but still do exactly what I want with no fuss. Details? Do the apps have names? If you will pardon me, based on your past history I don't put any stock in your vague assertions. These apps are essential, irreplaceable, and will not work without an 8.3 file name? One of them is a utility that I wrote in the 80s and that still does exactly what I want in exactly the way I want it. There is no replacement product that does exactly what I want in exactly the way I want it. I know a number of other people who are also still using it. I'm not going to waste my time updating it until I have to because it works. The second one is none of your damn business. Neither is the third one, which I didn't mention because I only use it a few times a week. Whether this satisfies you, I neither know nor care; you asked if anyone was using any 8.3 apps and I answered. Or are you just too lazy to upgrade? To this I can only quote one of your own posts: Stop being a jerk. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
