Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Hi Mark, Thank you for the very thorough answer. I looked through the links you sent and feel more confident about making a decision now. -Julie On 22 May 2009, at 21:18, Mark A. Metz wrote: Julie I've actually done a lot of foot work on this exact question for both platforms so I'll try to point you in the right direction. If your primary, power computing need for the MBP is Photoshop, I suggest you read this article: http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1247538 It's a nice encapsulation of what you can spend days/weeks digging up from Adobe's technical documents. Essentially, your priority list for expenses on a MBP is: 1. Memory 2. Memory 3. Memory 4. Memory 5. Processor Speed 6. Hard Drive Speed 7. Open GL supported graphics card Photoshop CS4 is not 64-bit for the Mac, yet. Hopefully, in CS5. That being the case, Photoshop can utilize up to ABOUT 3GB of memory directly. If there is any left over (not used by the OS or other apps.) it is utilized as a virtual scratch disk before writing to the hard drive. That is why memory, preferably fast memory, is so important. Things are a bit different on the Windows side where CS4 is 64-bit (more direct use of memory over 4GB), but I wouldn't suggest you switch platforms just for that if you're happy with Macs. Wait for CS5. Everything else won't make AS MUCH difference unless you're doing specialized tasks like using of some of the new 3D or animating features. I performed some simple benchmarks at home with my MBP 2.44 Ghz with 4GB DDR3 against my Vista 64 2.26 Ghz laptop with 4GB of DDR3 with Photoshop CS4 Extended. The Vista Machine ran faster on all but one benchmark (which was only 0.5 seconds slower). Here are the caveats. I used a monstrously large, 600 dpi file file with 12 layers and did a bilinear resample up to 1200 dpi to force the differences between the two machines. The test with the largest time difference was 1 minute, but most of the differences were seconds. The take home point is that the higher processor speed in the MBP isn't making much impact. The difference in performance between the 2.66 and 2.93 will be minimal. The major advantage of the 17 as it pertains to Photoshop is not the screen, it's the ability to add up to 8GB of fast memory (The point of diminishing returns on RAM for Photoshop, by the way). One of the things I didn't do was explore whether the 15 MBP can be forced to take more memory. I wonder if it can't be done, even though Apple doesn't support it. I'll let some of the more hardware savvy people address this. When you run out of memory, Photoshop swaps to the hard drive. All other hardware parameters being equal, the faster the hard drive, the faster the swap, the faster Photoshop runs. You will get an NVIDIA card with any MBP and they support OpenGL. OpenGL will mainly affect video performance (i.e., screen refresh, zoom, etc.). It may not help with any other tasks you perform in Photoshop. Check here for clarification: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html So now I'll give you the SUPER caveat. You can really enhance Photoshop performance by tweaking your settings just right for your setup. Certainly, buy all the computer you can afford and prefer, but learn as much as you can about maximizing performance with what you have. You can start here: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html Maybe you can stretch your G4 until CS5 and Snow Leopard. ; ) Good luck and feel free to ask more questions. Mark P.S. - Be careful about what the folks at the store tell you, and I mean any store. Arm yourself with technical knowledge straight from Adobe first. I've had sales people try to tell me stuff that is just wrong. They sometimes forget or didn't learn that, I don't know, is more helpful than an erroneous answer. Double check everything I've posted for accuracy, also. Your best tool is between your ears. -- From: Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro? Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
I've actually done a lot of foot work on this exact question for both platforms... Well that should definitely disqualify you from this discussion! Essentially, your priority list for expenses on a MBP is: 1. Memory 2. Memory 3. Memory 4. Memory... On a similar note I was reading about souping up the Mac Mini. After testing similar to yours that author concluded that upping the RAM to 4GB was the most effective and least expensive upgrade. Processor speed had some but minor impact. Your test compared 2.44 GHz with 2.26 GHz. That's a difference of 7 percent, something that will only be noticed if you frequently apply compute-intensive filters -- most of us don't. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
No, Apple hasn't ceased with the 17 anti-glare. What I meant to say was that the 15 does not have that option, so that would be one advantage of the 17. It seems to me that the glossy screen of the 15 would show a lot of glare and be really annoying. I had an iBook with a matte screen. Now I have a MacBook with a glossy screen. Neither has a problem with glare. The display on the MB is much clearer and has a wider viewing range. My iMac has a glossy screen, but has almost no glare compared to my old Sony CRT. I thought glossy vs. matte would be an issue, but it's not. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:58 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: I had an iBook with a matte screen. Now I have a MacBook with a glossy screen. Neither has a problem with glare. The display on the MB is much clearer and has a wider viewing range. My iMac has a glossy screen, but has almost no glare compared to my old Sony CRT. I thought glossy vs. matte would be an issue, but it's not. My iMac has the glossy screen, and I have grown accustomed to it. It does sometimes present reflectivity problems for me that are less apparent when I use CRT monitors with anti-glare coatings. But, I think I basically have learned to ignore the issue and look through the reflections. I did have to arrange my monitor location and viewing angles to minimize reflections from my white walls and to avoid bright light from windows that illuminated myself which caused me to see my own image reflected in the screen. So, for me, there were some issues to be solved, but I managed that. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Personally I think you'd be better off with more ram and making sure you get a 7200 rpm drive. I really doubt you will see a huge difference in speed between the two cpus. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Buy it after market Much cheaper. Stewart At 11:33 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Check memory from third party vendors, never, ever go through Apple for memory. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Julie Kubal I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. All MacBook Pros are fast. For Photoshop and Lightroom, maximum memory is more important than processor speed. You probably won't need more than the 4GB unless you do video. For video, you never have enough RAM, processor speed or hard drive space [but I used to do video on a Mac IIfx back in the digital stone age]. You can't get the 2.93GHz processor in the 15 MBP, however the 17 MBP is more of a desktop replacement than a portable. I'd get the top 15 MBP with more VRAM if my needs were PS LR. By the time it gets too slow you'll be able to afford the latest and greatest in 2014. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
ah, didn't think of that. Any recommendations on where to buy? On 22 May 2009, at 12:38, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Buy it after market Much cheaper. Stewart At 11:33 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Pardon this uninformed question, but I can always upgrade the RAM later, right? But not the processor? Will the cost of RAM probably decrease with time? At the moment, even if RAM would make the most sense in the long run, it's just too expensive to justify at an extra $1000. On 22 May 2009, at 12:19, mike wrote: Personally I think you'd be better off with more ram and making sure you get a 7200 rpm drive. I really doubt you will see a huge difference in speed between the two cpus. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Crucial, Newegg are two I use. Crucial tells me what to order, Newegg usually beats their pricing. Stewart At 11:52 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: ah, didn't think of that. Any recommendations on where to buy? On 22 May 2009, at 12:38, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Buy it after market Much cheaper. Stewart At 11:33 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: ah, didn't think of that. Any recommendations on where to buy? See if Apple has any refurbished units available. I have had very good luck and results with their refurbed units. Same warranty as a new machine and they get inspected and checked to a greater degree than new machines. As to RAM prices, they will probably generally go down over time, but may vary a bit over that period. Many Mac specific sellers can give you a good price. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
If you are getting the DDR3 model yes it will go down after time. I am seeing that, that memory is very expensive compared to the DDR2 memory. At the Crucial site DDR3 each 4 GB stick 399.99 Max 8 GB (x2 799.99) DDR2 each 2 GB stick 33.99 Max 4 GB (x2 55.99) 2.66 duo core intel. Stewart At 11:47 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Pardon this uninformed question, but I can always upgrade the RAM later, right? But not the processor? Will the cost of RAM probably decrease with time? At the moment, even if RAM would make the most sense in the long run, it's just too expensive to justify at an extra $1000. On 22 May 2009, at 12:19, mike wrote: Personally I think you'd be better off with more ram and making sure you get a 7200 rpm drive. I really doubt you will see a huge difference in speed between the two cpus. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
This has all been very helpful so far. Originally, I was considering a 15 MBP plus a separate large monitor for my photo work, but I began leaning towards the 17 because I do a lot of photo slideshow presentations at clients' homes where a bigger, portable screen would enhance the presentation. The 2.93Ghz processor is now available on the 15 too so the differences between the two sizes is really just RAM capacity and screen size/antiglare as far as I can tell. Any thoughts on advantages of larger screen size? The antiglare for photo work seems attractive. Since I'm planning on sticking with whichever model I buy for a long time, I'm having a really tough time making a decision, weighing all the variables. Thanks to all for bearing with my indecisiveness as I ask these questions. -Julie On 22 May 2009, at 13:12, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: If you are getting the DDR3 model yes it will go down after time. I am seeing that, that memory is very expensive compared to the DDR2 memory. At the Crucial site DDR3 each 4 GB stick 399.99 Max 8 GB (x2 799.99) DDR2 each 2 GB stick 33.99 Max 4 GB (x2 55.99) 2.66 duo core intel. Stewart At 11:47 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Pardon this uninformed question, but I can always upgrade the RAM later, right? But not the processor? Will the cost of RAM probably decrease with time? At the moment, even if RAM would make the most sense in the long run, it's just too expensive to justify at an extra $1000. On 22 May 2009, at 12:19, mike wrote: Personally I think you'd be better off with more ram and making sure you get a 7200 rpm drive. I really doubt you will see a huge difference in speed between the two cpus. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
If you are getting the DDR3 model yes it will go down after time. I am seeing that, that memory is very expensive compared to the DDR2 memory. At the Crucial site DDR3 each 4 GB stick 399.99 Max 8 GB (x2 799.99) DDR2 each 2 GB stick 33.99 Max 4 GB (x2 55.99) 2.66 duo core intel. Rev, that site must be wrong. Tom said it should only cost $12 more! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Again, I think you'll be wasting 300 dollars towards the 2.93, better to put that towards the external monitor? Saving it for more RAM later? Fifty for the 7200 HD is not bad... On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: This has all been very helpful so far. Originally, I was considering a 15 MBP plus a separate large monitor for my photo work, but I began leaning towards the 17 because I do a lot of photo slideshow presentations at clients' homes where a bigger, portable screen would enhance the presentation. The 2.93Ghz processor is now available on the 15 too so the differences between the two sizes is really just RAM capacity and screen size/antiglare as far as I can tell. Any thoughts on advantages of larger screen size? The antiglare for photo work seems attractive. Since I'm planning on sticking with whichever model I buy for a long time, I'm having a really tough time making a decision, weighing all the variables. Thanks to all for bearing with my indecisiveness as I ask these questions. -Julie On 22 May 2009, at 13:12, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: If you are getting the DDR3 model yes it will go down after time. I am seeing that, that memory is very expensive compared to the DDR2 memory. At the Crucial site DDR3 each 4 GB stick 399.99 Max 8 GB (x2 799.99) DDR2 each 2 GB stick 33.99 Max 4 GB (x2 55.99) 2.66 duo core intel. Stewart At 11:47 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Pardon this uninformed question, but I can always upgrade the RAM later, right? But not the processor? Will the cost of RAM probably decrease with time? At the moment, even if RAM would make the most sense in the long run, it's just too expensive to justify at an extra $1000. On 22 May 2009, at 12:19, mike wrote: Personally I think you'd be better off with more ram and making sure you get a 7200 rpm drive. I really doubt you will see a huge difference in speed between the two cpus. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
$1000? ... that doesn't sound right? Have you checked the price for the additional memory from Crucial? db Julie Kubal wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
That's the price on the Apple website for a memory upgrade from 4 GB to 8 GB, but everyone else has clued me in to the other less- expensive vendors. On 22 May 2009, at 14:47, db wrote: $1000? ... that doesn't sound right? Have you checked the price for the additional memory from Crucial? db Julie Kubal wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: Originally, I was considering a 15 MBP plus a separate large monitor for my photo work, but I began leaning towards the 17 because I do a lot of photo slideshow presentations at clients' homes where a bigger, portable screen would enhance the presentation. The 2.93Ghz processor is now available on the 15 too so the differences between the two sizes is really just RAM capacity and screen size/antiglare as far as I can tell. Any thoughts on advantages of larger screen size? The antiglare for photo work seems attractive. I have a MacBook Pro, 17, non-glare screen. Has Apple ceased making these with the non-glare? I use a high quality CRT monitor, NEC Diamondtron, for evaluating photo color, contrast, etc. I have it set up as an extension of the desktop, and simply drag the photo to the CRT portion of the split desktop when I want to see what things actually look like. LCD displays still do not get it right in terms of accuracy in my opinion. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Picking through the other replies to you that I've read: I would tend to not bother with the higher speed processor for an extra $300. The higher speed hard drive might be nice, and the larger size hard drive would be nice, but you can, and should, get big blocks of video or photos off-loaded to an external drive. 4G of memory is a lot. You might consider sticking with that and see how it works for you. Many people complain about the glossy screen but there are films you can apply if the reflection is a problem. Check the refurb listings. When you get a refurb, all reports are that you would not know it was a refurb. It's just like getting a new Mac. I got a 17 MacBook Pro refurb last summer, and could not be happier. It's a bit heavy, but the extra screen size is great to have. Especially if it is going to be your main computer. This one has 2GB of memory and seems fast except when processing video. I sympathize with you about your old PowerBook. My last one is a 500MHz, and still runs perfectly. But alas, it's just to slow to be my main computer. Good luck! Julie Kubal wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro? - added RAM
I just purchased RAM for my MBP 1.0 (3 yrs old) from OtherWorldComputing.com. They list 2 4GB RAM chips for 8GB max in the new MBP @ $639.99 and will accept old RAM modules for rebate. If I were buying a new MBP now, I'd certainly use such a source for the RAM upgrade versus paying the very high built-in price of that max RAM. YMMV --- This scotch tastes incredibly expensive . . . I can practically feel my bank account being emptied with every subsequent dram . . . note the rich character . . . he is now a poor character. . . -- Subject: Re: Which MacBook Pro? That's the price on the Apple website for a memory upgrade from 4 GB to 8 GB, but everyone else has clued me in to the other less- expensive vendors. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
And memory comes down in price until a point that it becomes heritage/ antique memory where the price goes back up unless you can scrounge it somewhere. Waiting a year and buying from a 3rd party is a good option if you don't need it now for video production etc... db Julie Kubal wrote: That's the price on the Apple website for a memory upgrade from 4 GB to 8 GB, but everyone else has clued me in to the other less-expensive vendors. On 22 May 2009, at 14:47, db wrote: $1000? ... that doesn't sound right? Have you checked the price for the additional memory from Crucial? db Julie Kubal wrote: Unfortunately, the extra memory is an extra $1000, while the extra processing speed in only another $300. On 22 May 2009, at 12:02, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Another thing to see is putting as much memory as possible in it. These programs not only are processor hogs, but also memory. Stewart At 10:49 AM 5/22/2009, you wrote: Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
No, Apple hasn't ceased with the 17 anti-glare. What I meant to say was that the 15 does not have that option, so that would be one advantage of the 17. It seems to me that the glossy screen of the 15 would show a lot of glare and be really annoying. -Julie On 22 May 2009, at 16:35, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com wrote: Originally, I was considering a 15 MBP plus a separate large monitor for my photo work, but I began leaning towards the 17 because I do a lot of photo slideshow presentations at clients' homes where a bigger, portable screen would enhance the presentation. The 2.93Ghz processor is now available on the 15 too so the differences between the two sizes is really just RAM capacity and screen size/antiglare as far as I can tell. Any thoughts on advantages of larger screen size? The antiglare for photo work seems attractive. I have a MacBook Pro, 17, non-glare screen. Has Apple ceased making these with the non-glare? I use a high quality CRT monitor, NEC Diamondtron, for evaluating photo color, contrast, etc. I have it set up as an extension of the desktop, and simply drag the photo to the CRT portion of the split desktop when I want to see what things actually look like. LCD displays still do not get it right in terms of accuracy in my opinion. Steve ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro?
Julie I've actually done a lot of foot work on this exact question for both platforms so I'll try to point you in the right direction. If your primary, power computing need for the MBP is Photoshop, I suggest you read this article: http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1247538 It's a nice encapsulation of what you can spend days/weeks digging up from Adobe's technical documents. Essentially, your priority list for expenses on a MBP is: 1. Memory 2. Memory 3. Memory 4. Memory 5. Processor Speed 6. Hard Drive Speed 7. Open GL supported graphics card Photoshop CS4 is not 64-bit for the Mac, yet. Hopefully, in CS5. That being the case, Photoshop can utilize up to ABOUT 3GB of memory directly. If there is any left over (not used by the OS or other apps.) it is utilized as a virtual scratch disk before writing to the hard drive. That is why memory, preferably fast memory, is so important. Things are a bit different on the Windows side where CS4 is 64-bit (more direct use of memory over 4GB), but I wouldn't suggest you switch platforms just for that if you're happy with Macs. Wait for CS5. Everything else won't make AS MUCH difference unless you're doing specialized tasks like using of some of the new 3D or animating features. I performed some simple benchmarks at home with my MBP 2.44 Ghz with 4GB DDR3 against my Vista 64 2.26 Ghz laptop with 4GB of DDR3 with Photoshop CS4 Extended. The Vista Machine ran faster on all but one benchmark (which was only 0.5 seconds slower). Here are the caveats. I used a monstrously large, 600 dpi file file with 12 layers and did a bilinear resample up to 1200 dpi to force the differences between the two machines. The test with the largest time difference was 1 minute, but most of the differences were seconds. The take home point is that the higher processor speed in the MBP isn't making much impact. The difference in performance between the 2.66 and 2.93 will be minimal. The major advantage of the 17 as it pertains to Photoshop is not the screen, it's the ability to add up to 8GB of fast memory (The point of diminishing returns on RAM for Photoshop, by the way). One of the things I didn't do was explore whether the 15 MBP can be forced to take more memory. I wonder if it can't be done, even though Apple doesn't support it. I'll let some of the more hardware savvy people address this. When you run out of memory, Photoshop swaps to the hard drive. All other hardware parameters being equal, the faster the hard drive, the faster the swap, the faster Photoshop runs. You will get an NVIDIA card with any MBP and they support OpenGL. OpenGL will mainly affect video performance (i.e., screen refresh, zoom, etc.). It may not help with any other tasks you perform in Photoshop. Check here for clarification: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html So now I'll give you the SUPER caveat. You can really enhance Photoshop performance by tweaking your settings just right for your setup. Certainly, buy all the computer you can afford and prefer, but learn as much as you can about maximizing performance with what you have. You can start here: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html Maybe you can stretch your G4 until CS5 and Snow Leopard. ; ) Good luck and feel free to ask more questions. Mark P.S. - Be careful about what the folks at the store tell you, and I mean any store. Arm yourself with technical knowledge straight from Adobe first. I've had sales people try to tell me stuff that is just wrong. They sometimes forget or didn't learn that, I don't know, is more helpful than an erroneous answer. Double check everything I've posted for accuracy, also. Your best tool is between your ears. -- From: Julie Kubal julieku...@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: [CGUYS] Which MacBook Pro? Moving on from hard drives... I'm about to purchase a new MacBook Pro. I'm planning to use this computer for as long as possible, basically until it dies. My current PowerBook G4 that I bought back in 04 is still running in fact, but it's now too slow for my needs. I primarily need to run Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2. Someone advised me to upgrade to the fastest processor available because you never know in the years to come what programs one might need to run. In this case, that would mean upgrading from 2.66 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo to the 2.93 Ghz. I think at the moment 2.66Ghz would be perfectly adequate and cost is a big consideration, but if it makes sense in the long run, I'd be willing to spend the extra $300. Thoughts? -Julie * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
