[CoTyroneMailingList] illigitimate births

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Friends,

This discussion is very interesting to me. Among other preoccupations, I’m a 
researcher of European Anabaptists, as some of my ancestors were Mennonites in 
Switzerland, Germany and France before emigrating to the US. The dominant 
Catholic Church in France, for instance, didn’t recognize Anabaptist marriages, 
and also the Anabaptists had adopted a rather tolerant attitude (or so it 
seems) toward illegitimate children, so it’s hard to sort out if there was 
shaming around this or not. The children born out of wedlock or to parents 
whose marriages weren’t recognized, were labeled as illegitimate in the civil 
records post-Napoleon —before that the only records in France were kept by the 
Catholic Church. Since I don’t research the few Protestants and Jews in France 
(let alone unbelievers), I'm not sure what the case was with them.

One set of my Irish ancestors — one Protestant, one Catholic — fled Ireland for 
Canada because of family outrage. They married as Catholics in Quebec Province 
but only after having a child. That child was reared without incident, so far 
as I know. What the presiding priest said is not known. A lecture?

I’m also a writer about the history of the West in the US before and after the 
California Gold Rush. In the earliest period in CA there were few births, 
period, since the population was largely male. After that, the culture of the 
Eastern US was adopted, and people hid the truth about children born “without 
benefit of clergy”, sometimes attributing them to married siblings or the 
grandparents. The children themselves appear to have been loved and cared for. 
However, there were escaped black slaves in those communities also, whom the 
censuses reveal didn’t know who their fathers were. And then there were the 
Native Americans, who didn’t keep written records about paternity or maternity. 
And the ticklish issue of prostitutes, who sometimes had children.  It’s a 
mixed bag, most of it shrouded in mystery. The worst thing, in my eyes, is 
taking out cultural prejudices on the children, who had no say (nor have now, 
nor ever will)  in how they got to this earth!

Keep it coming.

Katie Green
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[CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

I’d like to add my thanks for this very informative lesson.

Katie Green in Plain, WI, USA
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[CoTyroneMailingList] Ardboe Parish Topographical Dictionary

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Thanks especially, Len, since this is my area of concentration. Did the 
Dictionary list the number of residents in this parish, as some others do? If 
so, I’d be glad to go through and do a religious census if there’s a film I 
could have access to.

Gratefully yours,

Katie Green
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Tyrone Constitution, January 12 1849

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Moi aussi. I’m constantly amazed by how much Len and others are able to dig up. 
My knowledge of the conditions in Ireland at the time of my ancestors’ 
emigration from Tyrone to Ontario (1839) has been fleshed out considerably, 
even if direct information about my family has not advanced. Yet. They were of 
the peasant class and therefore skated beneath notice, mostly. Thank you and 
the keeper of the records, Jim McKane, and the volunteers.

Happy New Year from Wisconsin, USA

Katie Green


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:16 AM, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Great to hear from you Barbara and many thanks for the accolades: I am 
> pleased to contribute to the CTI mailing list and submit files to County 
> Tyrone Genealogical Research https://www.cotyroneireland.com/ 
>  They  contain useful data for researchers 
> and of course, am delighted that you have received assistance from my 
> submissions. Many thanks for the feedback and  continued progress with your 
> research.
> Regards,
> Len
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
>  
> <6F5436A5DD62445BA9656B0F176725FE.png>
> From: CoTyroneList  > on behalf of BARBARA 
> COULTER via CoTyroneList  >
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 1:26:27 PM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com  Mailing List 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>>
> Cc: BARBARA COULTER  >
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Tyrone 
> Constitution, January 12 1849
>  
> Wonderful info - thanks Len for all your amazing contributions.  No ancestors 
> of mine this time, but I have located them in other info that you have 
> posted.  Thanks so much for your great contributions!!
> Barb Coulter
> Reno, NV
> 
> 
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 3:08 PM, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hello Listers,
>  
> I’m posting this hoping a researcher locates a forebear amongst these 
> announcements,
>  
> Len Swindley
>  
> Tyrone Constitution, Omagh, January 12 1849
>  
> <5208CC0FC6CA4F49BEDC989CDFC33CE0.jpg>
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
>  
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>  
> From: BARBARA COULTER via CoTyroneList 
> 
> Sent: Monday, 30 December 2019 1:27 PM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
> Cc: BARBARA COULTER 
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Tyrone 
> Constitution, January 12 1849
>  
> Wonderful info - thanks Len for all your amazing contributions.  No ancestors 
> of mine this time, but I have located them in other info that you have 
> posted.  Thanks so much for your great contributions!!
> Barb Coulter
> Reno, NV
> 
> 
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 3:08 PM, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hello Listers,
>  
> I’m posting this hoping a researcher locates a forebear amongst these 
> announcements,
>  
> Len Swindley
>  
> Tyrone Constitution, Omagh, January 12 1849
>  
> <5208CC0FC6CA4F49BEDC989CDFC33CE0.jpg>
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
>  
> ___
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 535, Issue 1

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

I’d like to contact Bonnie Vastag if she’s willing, since we both live in 
Wisconsin.

Katie Green

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Bonnie Vastag via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Merry Christmas to you too, thanks so much for all of your time and 
> dedication to the site. I keep searching and learn a lot. Bonnie,  AZ and WI
> 
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 10:00 AM  > wrote:
> Send CoTyroneList mailing list submissions to
> cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com 
> 
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CoTyroneList digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. CTI Indexing Update (Jim McKane)
>2. Re: CTI Indexing Update (Sue Piper)
>3. Re: Thank You to Len and Jim (Len Swindley)
>4. CTI Search - CAUTION!! (Jim McKane)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:41:50 -0500
> From: Jim McKane mailto:j...@mckane.ca>>
> To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"
>  >
> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Indexing Update
> Message-ID:
>  >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello Listers - we, sincerely, hope everyone is ready for a Great Christmas
> and a Wonderfully Successful 2010!
> 
> As you know, we have several features available to ease your search of the
> website. The most used searches are the Every Name Index, Every Word Index
> and the Tithe Index.
> 
> As of this moment, the Every Name Index, which indexes every name on every
> page, contains over 289,000 names. The Every Word Index, which  indexes
> every word over 3 characters, contains 71,800 different words. Meanwhile,
> the Tithe Index, which indexes every name in the various Tithe Applotment
> transcriptions on CTI, contains over 49,600 records.
> 
> As new pages are added, these indices are updated as quickly as possible.
> 
> Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year!
> Jim McKane, Webmaster
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
>   
> >
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:56:43 +1100
> From: Sue Piper mailto:suzanne.pi...@bigpond.com>>
> To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"
>  >
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Indexing Update
> Message-ID: <2db7c1e9-b764-4d8c-b012-3c5ded584...@bigpond.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Merry Christmas and thank you for what you do ! 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > On 16 Dec 2019, at 9:43 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
> >  > > wrote:
> > 
> > ?
> > Hello Listers - we, sincerely, hope everyone is ready for a Great Christmas 
> > and a Wonderfully Successful 2010!
> > 
> > As you know, we have several features available to ease your search of the 
> > website. The most used searches are the Every Name Index, Every Word Index 
> > and the Tithe Index.
> > 
> > As of this moment, the Every Name Index, which indexes every name on every 
> > page, contains over 289,000 names. The Every Word Index, which  indexes 
> > every word over 3 characters, contains 71,800 different words. Meanwhile, 
> > the Tithe Index, which indexes every name in the various Tithe Applotment 
> > transcriptions on CTI, contains over 49,600 records.
> > 
> > As new pages are added, these indices are updated as quickly as possible.
> > 
> > Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year!
> > Jim McKane, Webmaster
> > ___
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> >  
> > 
> > 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Wright Family

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

I hope this info will be added to the Ardboe/Arboe material in the Tyrone list.

Katie Green

> On Oct 16, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Dennis Wright via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am researching my Wright Family from Ballynafeagh, Ardboe, County Tyrone.  
> My 3X Great Grandfather was William Wright Who is listed in PRONI’s pre 1858 
> Wills and Admins as dying in 1814 in Ballynafeagh.  My 2X great Grandparents 
> were William and Martha Wright Who also lived in Ballynafeagh.  William was 
> listed in the 1826 Tithe Applotment book and Martha in the 1860’s Griffiths 
> Valuation Book.  I have fully documented William and Martha’s Children and 
> their families. 
>  
> I would like to know if anyone as researched any other Wright Families in 
> this area in the early 1800’s.
>  
> Dennis Wright
> Las Vegas
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] TEST ONLY

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Fine here. Oh, and how long are you at your current address? It’s been a year 
since I sent you a check to support the website and no longer have that.

cheers,

Katie

> On Sep 17, 2019, at 7:30 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Testing a problem on the Mailing List
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
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[CoTyroneMailingList] Fwd: CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - The Murder of Anne Devlin at Killycolpy, Arboe Parish, Co. Tyrone, October 1829

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Now this new splendid entry from Len Swindley is of great interest to me, since 
I’m an offspring of those numerous Devlins of Arboe. Was there any follow-up in 
the newspaper subsequently or in court records that might reveal more info—such 
as who Anne was the wife or widow of? And if there were other children’s names 
given. Perhaps the daughter’s name or the children who had already left home, 
besides the two sons listed who were still living at home?

A bouquet of roses to Len.

Thankee,

Katie Green

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - The Murder 
> of Anne Devlin at Killycolpy, Arboe Parish, Co. Tyrone, October 1829
> Date: June 25, 2019 at 6:04:15 PM CDT
> To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" 
> Cc: Jim McKane 
> Reply-To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" 
> 
> 
> The Murder of Anne Devlin at Killycolpy, Arboe Parish, Co. Tyrone, October 
> 1829 
> 
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - First Garvagh Presbyterian Church Graveyard Transcriptions, Errigal Parish, Co. Londonderry

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Now this is a really beautiful addition to the archive!

> On Feb 17, 2019, at 4:15 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> First Garvagh Presbyterian Church Graveyard Transcriptions, Errigal Parish, 
> Co. Londonderry 
> 
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & Other Data

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Carol, please send me your personal email so I don’t burden this website with 
our correspondence about other matters.

Thanks,

Katie

> On Feb 12, 2019, at 9:30 PM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes KatieGreen you are a busy lady. So glad your next book is close to being 
> finished.  I will be back in touch about your earlier ones. I know it will be 
> so interesting to read and pass on. You are so talented. Blessings, 
> CarolHoffman 
> 
> On Feb 12, 2019, at 8:34 PM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Carol,
>> 
>> My apologies for not being able to keep everything straight. I”m involved in 
>> too many genealogical projects at the moment, clearly. There’s Tyrone, and 
>> Limerick and some American queries from past roots sleuthing come in from 
>> time to time  (my own family)and genealogy for two projects related to my 
>> home county in No. CA — one a book about to be published, one an ongoing 
>> data bank from the gold rush to 1906. That last one will be with me ’til I 
>> draw my last breath. Anyway, keep this in mind when I sound really, really 
>> stupid! Sometimes it’s hard for my brain to switch gears.
>> 
>> I poured over the entries from St. Catherine’s, Ontario which I bothered to 
>> copy out by hand when I visited there — there wasn’t a working copier at the 
>> archive — and see some Cain/Caines. Is that an alternative spelling for 
>> Kane, you suppose? Nothing else jumped out at me. My head is spinning. Our 
>> line  of the Devlins migrated south to St. Louis from Ontario.
>> 
>> Enough for now,
>> 
>> Katie
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe so Katie Green. We have corresponded on email.  I have Stinson’s 
>>> in my history. My Great Grandmother. Sarah Stinson Donnelly on my Burrows 
>>> genealogy.  Also have Devlin’s married to another side of my Family, 
>>> Richard Kane, my Mother’s Great Grandmother’s, Mary Rhoda KANE - 
>>> Showalter’s Brother. William Francis Kane family married into the Devlin 
>>> Family In Philadelphia. 
>>> Back to the Mayflower Family” tree on Ancestry.  Have not followed up my 
>>> Irish roots in Donegal and Tyrone. Just knew we had a DNA connection.  
>>> Blessings, CarolHoffman 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 8, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> So, Carol B H., are you a twig on this same Devlin/Stinson tree?
>>>> 
>>>> Katie Green
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> So Katie Green it looks like you have finally found our family 
>>>>> connections. So glad. I have not be able to do the spreadsheet yet.  
>>>>> Blessings, CarolBurrowsHoffman 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Perfect! Found the explanation right off. Thanks so much, Liam.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Katie G
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 4:20 PM, Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
>>>>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Could I refer you to www.placenamesni.org 
>>>>>>> <http://www.placenamesni.org/>.For excellent info on all 
>>>>>>> place-names. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 7 Feb 2019 20:48, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>>>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks to Jim and Pat Grimes for this one. I hand-wrote some of these 
>>>>>>> off of LDS microfilm some years ago, trying to pinpoint my Devlins to a 
>>>>>>> town or hamlet. I now strongly think Kinrush for the Devlin side but 
>>>>>>> can’t prove it. “My” Hugh Devlin’s birth date from 1808 doesn’t match 
>>>>>>> anything in this record, but his marriage to Olivia (Livia) 
>>>>>&

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & Other Data

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Carol,

My apologies for not being able to keep everything straight. I”m involved in 
too many genealogical projects at the moment, clearly. There’s Tyrone, and 
Limerick and some American queries from past roots sleuthing come in from time 
to time  (my own family)and genealogy for two projects related to my home 
county in No. CA — one a book about to be published, one an ongoing data bank 
from the gold rush to 1906. That last one will be with me ’til I draw my last 
breath. Anyway, keep this in mind when I sound really, really stupid! Sometimes 
it’s hard for my brain to switch gears.

I poured over the entries from St. Catherine’s, Ontario which I bothered to 
copy out by hand when I visited there — there wasn’t a working copier at the 
archive — and see some Cain/Caines. Is that an alternative spelling for Kane, 
you suppose? Nothing else jumped out at me. My head is spinning. Our line  of 
the Devlins migrated south to St. Louis from Ontario.

Enough for now,

Katie

> On Feb 11, 2019, at 11:54 AM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> I believe so Katie Green. We have corresponded on email.  I have Stinson’s in 
> my history. My Great Grandmother. Sarah Stinson Donnelly on my Burrows 
> genealogy.  Also have Devlin’s married to another side of my Family, Richard 
> Kane, my Mother’s Great Grandmother’s, Mary Rhoda KANE - Showalter’s Brother. 
> William Francis Kane family married into the Devlin Family In Philadelphia. 
> Back to the Mayflower Family” tree on Ancestry.  Have not followed up my 
> Irish roots in Donegal and Tyrone. Just knew we had a DNA connection.  
> Blessings, CarolHoffman 
> 
> On Feb 8, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
>> So, Carol B H., are you a twig on this same Devlin/Stinson tree?
>> 
>> Katie Green
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So Katie Green it looks like you have finally found our family connections. 
>>> So glad. I have not be able to do the spreadsheet yet.  Blessings, 
>>> CarolBurrowsHoffman 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Perfect! Found the explanation right off. Thanks so much, Liam.
>>>> 
>>>> Katie G
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 4:20 PM, Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could I refer you to www.placenamesni.org <http://www.placenamesni.org/>. 
>>>>>For excellent info on all place-names. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 Feb 2019 20:48, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks to Jim and Pat Grimes for this one. I hand-wrote some of these off 
>>>>> of LDS microfilm some years ago, trying to pinpoint my Devlins to a town 
>>>>> or hamlet. I now strongly think Kinrush for the Devlin side but can’t 
>>>>> prove it. “My” Hugh Devlin’s birth date from 1808 doesn’t match anything 
>>>>> in this record, but his marriage to Olivia (Livia) Steenson/Stinson is in 
>>>>> it (It was a Catholic-Protestant marriage) as well as the birth of their 
>>>>> first child, Peter. They went off to St. Catherine’s, Ontario in 1839 and 
>>>>> some others of the folks in this Arboe record turn up there, too, in the 
>>>>> Cathedral records.
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way, is Kinrush the same as Kinross?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Again, my thanks. It’s so nice to see the records laid out so tidily.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Katie Green
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 7:06 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & 
>>>>> Other Data <https://cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/arboe-rc2.html>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks to Pat Grimes for another great addition to CTI and to Mary Jarvis 
>>>>> for pointing us to this marvellous and HUGE file.  This is the first of 
>>>>> four files which has a total of over 9.000 baptisms!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> J

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & Other Data

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

So, Carol B H., are you a twig on this same Devlin/Stinson tree?

Katie Green

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Carol Hoffman via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> So Katie Green it looks like you have finally found our family connections. 
> So glad. I have not be able to do the spreadsheet yet.  Blessings, 
> CarolBurrowsHoffman 
> 
> 
> On Feb 7, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Perfect! Found the explanation right off. Thanks so much, Liam.
>> 
>> Katie G
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 4:20 PM, Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Could I refer you to www.placenamesni.org <http://www.placenamesni.org/>.   
>>>  For excellent info on all place-names. 
>>> 
>>> On 7 Feb 2019 20:48, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> Thanks to Jim and Pat Grimes for this one. I hand-wrote some of these off 
>>> of LDS microfilm some years ago, trying to pinpoint my Devlins to a town or 
>>> hamlet. I now strongly think Kinrush for the Devlin side but can’t prove 
>>> it. “My” Hugh Devlin’s birth date from 1808 doesn’t match anything in this 
>>> record, but his marriage to Olivia (Livia) Steenson/Stinson is in it (It 
>>> was a Catholic-Protestant marriage) as well as the birth of their first 
>>> child, Peter. They went off to St. Catherine’s, Ontario in 1839 and some 
>>> others of the folks in this Arboe record turn up there, too, in the 
>>> Cathedral records.
>>> 
>>> By the way, is Kinrush the same as Kinross?
>>> 
>>> Again, my thanks. It’s so nice to see the records laid out so tidily.
>>> 
>>> Katie Green
>>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2019, at 7:06 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>>> >> <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & 
>>> Other Data <https://cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/arboe-rc2.html>
>>> 
>>> Thanks to Pat Grimes for another great addition to CTI and to Mary Jarvis 
>>> for pointing us to this marvellous and HUGE file.  This is the first of 
>>> four files which has a total of over 9.000 baptisms!!
>>> 
>>> Jim McKane
>>> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & Other Data

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Perfect! Found the explanation right off. Thanks so much, Liam.

Katie G

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 4:20 PM, Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Could I refer you to www.placenamesni.org.For excellent info on all 
> place-names. 
> 
> On 7 Feb 2019 20:48, Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> Thanks to Jim and Pat Grimes for this one. I hand-wrote some of these off of 
> LDS microfilm some years ago, trying to pinpoint my Devlins to a town or 
> hamlet. I now strongly think Kinrush for the Devlin side but can’t prove it. 
> “My” Hugh Devlin’s birth date from 1808 doesn’t match anything in this 
> record, but his marriage to Olivia (Livia) Steenson/Stinson is in it (It was 
> a Catholic-Protestant marriage) as well as the birth of their first child, 
> Peter. They went off to St. Catherine’s, Ontario in 1839 and some others of 
> the folks in this Arboe record turn up there, too, in the Cathedral records.
> 
> By the way, is Kinrush the same as Kinross?
> 
> Again, my thanks. It’s so nice to see the records laid out so tidily.
> 
> Katie Green
> 
> On Feb 7, 2019, at 7:06 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & 
> Other Data <https://cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/arboe-rc2.html>
> 
> Thanks to Pat Grimes for another great addition to CTI and to Mary Jarvis for 
> pointing us to this marvellous and HUGE file.  This is the first of four 
> files which has a total of over 9.000 baptisms!!
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & Other Data

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Thanks to Jim and Pat Grimes for this one. I hand-wrote some of these off of 
LDS microfilm some years ago, trying to pinpoint my Devlins to a town or 
hamlet. I now strongly think Kinrush for the Devlin side but can’t prove it. 
“My” Hugh Devlin’s birth date from 1808 doesn’t match anything in this record, 
but his marriage to Olivia (Livia) Steenson/Stinson is in it (It was a 
Catholic-Protestant marriage) as well as the birth of their first child, Peter. 
They went off to St. Catherine’s, Ontario in 1839 and some others of the folks 
in this Arboe record turn up there, too, in the Cathedral records.

By the way, is Kinrush the same as Kinross?

Again, my thanks. It’s so nice to see the records laid out so tidily.

Katie Green

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 7:06 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ardboe Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms 1800-1843 with added Birth, Death & 
> Other Data 
> 
> Thanks to Pat Grimes for another great addition to CTI and to Mary Jarvis for 
> pointing us to this marvellous and HUGE file.  This is the first of four 
> files which has a total of over 9.000 baptisms!!
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Maps - added Tyrone - Number of British Families 1622 Survey

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Hi Jim,

Very weird. When I click on maps, all I get is a map of where I live here in 
Wisconsin. I tried it repeatedly.

Katie

> On Jan 24, 2019, at 7:23 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maps - added Tyrone - Number of British Families 1622 Survey 
> 
> 
> Thanks to Howard Mathieson for another great addition to CTI!
> 
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

That is not only interesting but a gorgeous evocation of the time and place. 
Thanks!

Katie Green

> On Jan 14, 2019, at 11:30 PM, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> For those of you who are trying to write and capture the sounds and feel of 
> the Irish you may want to know about their love of their cattle. The first 
> book ever written was the book of the Brown Cow. The cow was the difference 
> between life and death for many families. The Ulster Scots women usually 
> milked the cows while the men worked in the fields or in the bush cutting 
> staves (square timbers). When the Scotch Irish families settled Canada they  
> already had a pattern for work but English women of better breeding had been 
> taught that milking cattle was below them or men's work. It was the Scottish 
> Irish women who taught the English women to milk and mind the cattle 
> (Roughing in the bush by Catharine Partrel) and saved them and their families 
> from starvation. In the morning before the sun had dispatched the darkness I 
> would wake to hear my mom's voice from the cowbar calling the cows. Many 
> families had their own call or sometimes communities shared a call but all 
> the cattle knew the sound of their mistress voice. For a young boy the calls 
> where a strange haunting beautiful sound in the grey/darkness between sleep 
> and dream . I don't have enough music in me to try and set it down for you 
> but if you google," Kulning ancient herd calling," you will hear young 
> Swedish women who still pass the calls down through their families. It is 
> beautiful to see the cattle coming to the calls into the yard. In the 
> blackness of morning you first see movement in the darkness then the head of 
> the lead mammoth appears followed by shoulders and a body lumbering towards 
> the mistress voice then two more and then more, finally the whole heard 
> appears, if you are lucky. These calls have come down generation after 
> generation of women farther back then we can trace our genealogy. The sound 
> carries for a  mile or more much farther then a normal  human call would 
> carry. Hope that is of interest.
> Cheers
> 
> Ron McCoy
> Cheers
> 
> Ron McCoy
> On 2019-01-14 6:55 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote:
>> Many, many thanks to all for the good discussion re the accent that Ulster 
>> Scots Tyronians probably carried to U.S.  I am working on a family history 
>> that began in Parish Desertcreat, Townland Gortavilly and moved to western 
>> Kentucky in 1839/1840 through 1849.  I use dialect writing for the enslaved 
>> African Americans and want to do the same for the family of Henry and Mary 
>> Ballantine whose son John, the stonecutter, was the first to arrive in 
>> America.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList 
>> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in Tyrone 
>>> in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that 
>>> period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has 
>>> modified a bit though it  remains quite different from the rest of 
>>> Ireland). I think Tyrone may have been pretty much the same as Antrim. I 
>>> have included some other observations on Scottish influence in Ireland, for 
>>> entertainment.
>>>  
>>> A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry wrote this of his 
>>> childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch 
>>> immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a 
>>> man might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1] 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again not too far 
>>> from Drumachose a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from 
>>> east to west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a 
>>> broad Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism 
>>> indicated the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. 
>>> Episcopalians were few and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2] 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Here’s what another source says about Scottish influence in Ireland:
>>>  
>>> “What has been the contribution of Scottish immigrants to Ireland? Like 
>>> other peoples, the Ulster Scots have a somewhat self-admiring historical 
>>> myth about their contribution to Irish life. There were echoes of it in the 
>>> words I have quoted from J. J. Shaw but it was enunciated resonantly by the 
>>> Reverend Henry Cooke, one of its most eloquent exponents, addressing the 
>>> General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in 1836:
>>>  
>>> “ Our Scottish forefathers were planted in the most barren portions of our 
>>> lands - the most rude and lawless of the provinces - Scottish industry 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Every Name Index - UPDATE

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Well, I”m impressed! Thanks to all. As soon as I”m finished writing my current 
book I hope to help.

Katie Green

> On Jan 12, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Listers - 
> 
> First, I wish to pass a HUGE THANKS to one volunteer who over last six days 
> completed the indexing of 158 files which was every file in the Law & Order: 
> Crime, Court Records, Police, Process Servers, Bankruptcies menu. Granted 
> many of the pages were quite small with only a few name but nevertheless 158 
> files is a very large task.
> 
> Secondly, the index now contains over 129,400 names.
> 
> Enjoy
> Jim McKane, Webmaster
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Using a researcher

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Yes, my Armstrongs are Dublin to Quebec. Lots of those Armstrongs in Ireland.

Katie Green
On Dec 3, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

> Margaret,
>  
> I echo what Boyd has said.
>  
> Armstrong is a very common name in Ireland. In the 1901 census there are 
> 6122. 545 in Co Tyrone, 6 named Samuel and 41 named William. The names would 
> have been even more common in the mid 1800s as the population was 
> considerably greater then. (It was 8 million in 1841 and it’s only 6 million 
> today).
>  
> There’s 42 parishes in the county, and probably 250 – 300 churches. Not all 
> the churches have records back to the mid 1800s let alone 1811 when William 
> was born, and of those that do, many are not on-line. Only the RC records are 
> fairly comprehensively on-line. For all other denominations it’s very patchy. 
> A lot have been copied and are in PRONI, but there are some small churches 
> where the Minister still has the only copy of the records. No-one has copied 
> them at all, and the only way of checking them is to contact him/her. 
> Searching all the various church records for Tyrone is a mammoth task. 
> Researchers need to be able to reduce the search by knowing the exact 
> denomination(s) of the families they are looking at. And we need some 
> reasonably reliable information on where they might have lived to keep the 
> research within reasonable bounds. Searching the church records for the whole 
> county for Armstrong would be a huge task. But even then, there’s no getting 
> away from the fact that the Church of Ireland lost a significant portion of 
> its records in the 1922 fire, and that other denominations didn’t always keep 
> records, or if they did, they have been lost or damaged. So no certainty of 
> success at all.
>  
> It’s worth bearing in mind that not everyone is listed in Griffiths. 
> Servants, people lodging with others and folk with very low value properties 
> were all excluded. Labourers who moved around regularly to follow available 
> work often slipped through the Griffiths clerks net. There are other 
> examples. Also it was compiled for Tyrone around 1860, so if a family had 
> left by that year, they won't be in it.
>  
> With your Samuel and William, I would search all possible records in Canada, 
> or wherever else they ended up. Marriage and death certificates sometimes 
> give places of birth, as well as parents names. Military records, obituaries, 
> wills etc can all throw up information about someone’s origins.  Because it’s 
> such a common name, to trace William Armstrong born c1852, we’d need his 
> mother’s full name, to be sure of finding the right family. Presumably you 
> know that, though it isn’t in your post.
>  
> The researcher’s expertise is obviously important but equally we can’t magic 
> up records that don’t exist anymore, and the more accurate your information 
> and the narrower the search area, the better the chances of success.
>  
>  
> Elwyn
> 
> From: Boyd Gray via CoTyroneList 
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List  
> Cc: Boyd Gray 
> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018, 22:31
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Using a researcher
> 
> Hi Margaret,
> 
> I am a "researcher" currently working on a project very similar to the one 
> you describe.  And after weeks of research, I have not found that magical 
> "smoking gun" which you seem to desire.  Thankfully, I am not being expected 
> to do so and I made that clear at the start when I offered to help.  It is as 
> simple as this.  If the records do not exist, no amount of research, by 
> anyone other than a magic fairy, is ever going to find that definitive link 
> for which you seek.  In the end, it will all come down to probabilities.  If 
> you have researched every birth, marriage and death, every land record from 
> the Tithe Applotment Books, through the Griffiths Valuation AND beyond 
> through the Griffiths Valuation Revision Books, through their overlap with 
> the censuses and right through to their end circa 1930, then you will have 
> sufficient sense of the family in that area to know whether they are your 
> folks, to withing 80% or 90% degree of certainty.  But you can not expect 
> even a professional researcher to magic up a record which does not exist.
> 
> Just like you, we found a Christopher Irwin, but not the Christopher Irwin 
> who emigrated to Ontario in 1850 because this Christopher Irwin was still in 
> Co Tyrone when he died in 1906.  But, we have done enough work on this branch 
> of the Irwins, compared to other Irwins from County Tyrone, which was the 
> only clue given by Canadian records, to be reasonably sure we have the right 
> Irwins.  But no smoking gun.  No family bible.  No record from a list of 
> sources which simply does not exist.  No researcher with a magic wand.  If 
> you need to know what sources are actually available, have a look here at the 
> helpful hints, workshop videos, sources and links:
> 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Good morning,

One English writer who lived for some years in Ireland to run the postal system 
and was very complimentary to the ordinary Irish folk he knew was Anthony 
Trollop. Check it out!

Katie Green
On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:50 AM, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

> Hi Len and all
> 
> Thank you Len for sharing this with all of us. I read this and many other 
> pieces of history. I  notice the trend through out of the lack of mention of 
> positive attributes of the common people. Empathy for another human being is 
> completely devoid in these reports. The time period scribes never seems to 
> mention how hard working these people are, how close knit the families be, 
> the way communities work together or the weight of unfair and unjust economic 
> burdens they struggle under and still survive and more they insist on  
> thriving in the face of great adversity. I think these Ordinances  are 
> important pieces of history not as much about what they report or say on the 
> surface to  us  but because they tell us a lot about the writer and the class 
> structure he dwells in. It seems important to him to paint a portrait of the 
> Irish working class people at a level of sub human strata (you may see pigs 
> and fowls eating in the kitchen and everything is dirty ). The considerable 
> hardships people are forced to live in are justified because of their moral 
> depravity, "49th: It is believed that there is at least an improvement in the 
> morals and cleanliness of children attending Sunday Schools". This article to 
> me paints a picture of a people who are brave in the face of over whelming 
> poverty, and unjust taxation without representation overseen by  absentee 
> land lords. It speaks to me of a devotion to preserve the family and 
> traditions at all costs. As people who are forced to struggle, their hope 
> lies in their children and their children's, children, in other words "us". 
> They would not allow themselves to quit, be broken, or trodden under, despite 
> the written word, legal system and their betters opinion. They refused to 
> think of themselves as less then any mans equal. They put all their hopes in 
> the generations to come, they sacrificed everything to bring "us" into a 
> safer , a better place... may we not let them down, may we never forget who 
> they were and what they sacrificed for ,"us", for ,"me". What they did was 
> not easy and it was not pretty but they did it, a better world for us, those 
> like us, those like them and those still to come. May we be able to say the 
> same Thank you Len for bringing these pieces of history to us.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ron McCoy
> 
> 
> On 2018-10-25 10:20 PM, Gail Mooney via CoTyroneList wrote:
>> Thanks Len - Even knowing the history of those hard times, this piece paints 
>> a pretty grim picture of the environments our people endured as they 
>> struggled to survive.  I imagine depression was common in the population - 
>> reminds me to be more grateful for my lucky circumstances.  
>> From: "Len Swindley via CoTyroneList" 
>> To: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
>> Cc: "Len Swindley" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:02:19 PM
>> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher 
>> Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5
>> 
>> Hello Listers;
>>  
>> There has been recent interest expressed in the lives of our Tyrone forbears 
>> (thanks to Elwyn) and here is an extract from the Ordnance Survey Memoirs of 
>> the 1820s-30s that offers some observations on living conditions in Clogher 
>> parish. Having read through many of the memoirs covering the parishes of Co. 
>> Tyrone, this report could be applied similarly to all parishes.
>>  
>> Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
>>  
>>  
>> EXTRACTED FROM ORDNANCE MEMOIRS OF IRELAND: PARISHES OF COUNTY TYRONE VOL. 1 
>> (INSTITUTE OF IRISH STUDIES, QUEEN’S UNIVERSITY OF BELFAST) (1990)
>> STATISTICAL MEMOIR BY LIEUTENANT R. STOTHERD
>> ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS:
>> THE HABITS OF THE PEOPLE
>> 42nd: There is very little order, cleanliness, or neatness in general to be 
>> found either in the houses or of the more wealthy farmers or in the cottages 
>> of the poor. The turf stack often approaches within a few yards of the door 
>> and thus intersects the view and stops the currency of the air. The yard in 
>> front of the house is full of the odour of the cow house and stable, for 
>> they are often built in the very front and sometime adjoining the 
>> dwellinghouse. The lanes and approaches to the house are narrow, rough and 
>> filthy in the extreme. Within no order is visible; you may see pigs and 
>> fowls eating in the kitchen and everything is dirty and confused, the 
>> furniture a few pots and noggins, a stool or a broken chair. The potatoes at 
>> meals are thrown out in a basket and so laid on the table or on a stool, and 
>> the whole family gather round, master, mistress, children and servants in a 
>> mass, and eat out of the 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Every Name Index

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Jim,

While I wouldn’t mind indexing, what I’d really like to do is compile all the 
information on a document. Indexes are great, but they leave one wanting to 
know what else is on the page.

cheers,

Katie Green
On Sep 22, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

> Hello Listers - our new CTI Every Name Index continues to grow nicely.
> 
> We now have over 39,500 records listed; however, we still have a very long 
> way to go.
> 
> If you find this database useful, your help on the project would be greatly 
> appreciated.
> 
> Have a great weekend
> Jim
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

Actually, I tried that but it wouldn’t change on my machine.

Thanks anyway.

Katie
On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:23 PM, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

> Hello Katie,   On the top left where it says page 1, change it to page 2 or 
> whatever page you want.  There aren’t many pages.  Good luck.
> Iola.
>  
> From: Katie Green via CoTyroneList
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 10:56 AM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
> Cc: Katie Green
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
>  
> Hi ya,
>  
> I’m not finding it easy to get off the first pages in the Quebec Murcury 
> site. After one clicks on the proper year and month on the calendar icon, 
> then what? I can’t figure out how to get to the year I want. There aren’t any 
> arrows, etc.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Katie Green
> On Aug 18, 2018, at 10:07 AM, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ron,  Iola here.   I just google both the Belfast Newsletter archives and 
>> the Quebec Mercury.  The webpage for the Mercury is in French but the 
>> newspaper printed in English.  It is east to navigate.  Just click on the 
>> calendar ikon on the right side, find the year, month etc.  I took a quick 
>> look and the ships arriving in 1828 are listed.  I hope this helps and let 
>> me know if I can be of further assistance.
>> Iola.
>>  
>> From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList
>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:44 PM
>> To: cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com
>> Cc: Ron McCoy
>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
>>  
>> Hi All
>> 
>> Thanks for the information. The lack of shipping list is a problem and as 
>> has been noted travel between Canada and Ireland was not registered. A real 
>> problem... I have tried the steam ship lines from Quebec to Montreal with 
>> out success but they also ran Bateaux service which is how I assume they 
>> must have come. I think  the suggestion of the Belfast News, The Quebec 
>> Mercury or the JJ Cooke shipping records might give me the names of ships 
>> that would have sailed out of Belfast and arrived in Quebec in the time I 
>> suspect. That would be a great help.
>> 
>> Iola would you have the online site that these can be found on? Thank you 
>> all for your help
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Ron McCoy
>> 
>> 
>> On 2018-08-17 9:33 AM, Elizabeth Vervaeke via CoTyroneList wrote:
>>> My family came from Brackagh (Errigal  Keerogue)
>>> through Londonderry on the Sesosthis in 1847 .  I was able to find their 
>>> passenger list from the JJ Cooke Shipping records . There are many ships 
>>> listed.
>>> Perhaps it’s worth a search here ...
>>>  
>>> https://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/qu_seth1847.shtml
>>>  
>>> Kind Regards
>>>  
>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> I have tried several times to find sailing records for the year 1828 
>>> from Belfast to Canada. This is the year I believe my family and their 
>>> neighbours left Tyrone and immigrated. However I am told there is no 
>>> passenger records in the early years of the 1800's. I was wondering if 
>>> there was  a list some where of just ships names that sailed even if 
>>> there was not passenger lists. I am confident that they sailed after 
>>> iceberg season and arrived in the Montreal area around the end of August 
>>> or beginning of September of 1838. If I had a list of ships sailing out 
>>> of Belfast I might be able to deduce which ship they sailed on? If 
>>> anyone has experience or an idea where ships names or records that might 
>>> have sailed from Belfast it would be of great interest to me?
>>> Cheers
>>> Ron McCoy
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> CoTyroneList mailing list
>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
>>> -- 
>>> Libby Vervaeke
>>> e.verva...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>>  
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