[courier-users] Strange Feature Request...hints/ideas requested

2003-02-21 Thread Bill Long
Hi all.

I have a strange feature request that I need to implement in Courier. Bear
with me, as I am still coming up to speed on all this.

The company set up is where part of the users are in the States, and part
are in India.  They are all part of the same domain.  They want two physical
mail stores, one in the States, one in India.  The need is to have the
system set up in such a way that any email coming to any user gets delivered
to BOTH mail stores.(yes, i know this is a bit crazy, i have argued my point
til i'm blue in the face, and they are the bosses...) The reasoning behind
this is that if one server goes down, the other will catch any emails, and
the users can immediately switch over to the other server to access their
emails.

Basically, what I need is a setup such that any email sent to anybody on my
domain hits a primary forward-only SMTP server.  This SMTP server should
verify that the user exists on the domain, then forward this message to each
the two separate mail servers, but only after doing a virus scan and a
running a spam filter on it.  All this is pretty straight forward and can
easily be accomplished via aliases, filtering etc. Here is where it gets
tricky.

The big fellas upstairs then want the ability to synchronize mailboxes
between the two mail stores on an hourly or nightly basis. For instance if
one user in the States uses pop.us.mydomain.org to pop/imap his mail, his US
mail box will be the master for the nightly sync.  If a user in India pops
his mail from pop.in.mydomain.org to pop/imap his mail, then the India mail
box will be the master for the nightly sync. I would like to employ this
method rather than just wipe non-master-push master data to non-master,
as this would save immense bandwidth.

I thought about this. With unix tools, it appears from the outset, to be
pretty easy(rsync, perl, possible IMAP commands, etc). However, it occurs to
me that since the Main MTA will only be forwarding the email, and the actual
MDAs will be the servers in the States/India, the messages, though the same
in body and subject content, will not be the same in overall content. The
MDA's will append some of their unique info just prior to delivery. This
means I can't just hash the message to get a KEY to sync on.  Since I have
to scan the emails for Spam and Virii(thereby necessitating the use of
filters on the MTA server), I have just come up with the idea to run the
email through a third filter which inserts a special unique line in the
header portion of the message. That way, I can later use that unique header
as a key for the messages.

Do any of you have any recommendations for a better way to maybe do this?  I
have the Virus Scanner stuff working okay, so I have had to go through the
Filter bit. I'm still not super strong with it, but I [think] this is the
best way to approach it.

What do you think? Should I stop smoking so much crack? or will it slide?

Thanks In Advance,

bill



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Re: [courier-users] Problem with Lotus Notes pop3 client

2003-02-21 Thread Niccolo Rigacci
Alle 16:46, giovedì 20 febbraio 2003, Niccolo Rigacci ha scritto:
 It seems that that client does not understand messages header, messages are
 received without subject and other header info.

 The only difference that I can notice is that courierpop3d puts an extra
 line at the begin of a RETR message, like this:

RETR 1
+OK 5510 octets follow.
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb 19 18:02:03 2003
Return-path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Yes, the problem was not with courier pop server but with Exim mta. The From 
line should not appear at the begin of the message if using the Maildir 
format (it should exists in the Unix mailbox format instead).

To prevent Exim from adding that line and to prevent special handling of 
From lines I put the following directives in exim.conf (in the transport 
definition):

  driver = appendfile
  maildir_format
  prefix = 
  suffix = 
  check_string = 
  escape_string = 

Problem solved, in less than 5 hours, thanks!

-- 
Niccolo Rigacci
http://www.texnet.it/


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Re: [courier-users] Strange Feature Request...hints/ideas requested

2003-02-21 Thread Bill Long
Okay,

Thats what I get for not reading BEFORE I post.  The filtering engine won't
do what I had thought/hoped it will.  My next(and original) though is to
hack the ESMTPD server to part the data stream, check the headers and insert
a unique ID into mail being sent to my local domain.

Make sense? or should I try a different way?

bill
- Original Message -
From: Bill Long [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Courier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:39 PM
Subject: [courier-users] Strange Feature Request...hints/ideas requested


 Hi all.

 I have a strange feature request that I need to implement in Courier. Bear
 with me, as I am still coming up to speed on all this.

 The company set up is where part of the users are in the States, and part
 are in India.  They are all part of the same domain.  They want two
physical
 mail stores, one in the States, one in India.  The need is to have the
 system set up in such a way that any email coming to any user gets
delivered
 to BOTH mail stores.(yes, i know this is a bit crazy, i have argued my
point
 til i'm blue in the face, and they are the bosses...) The reasoning behind
 this is that if one server goes down, the other will catch any emails, and
 the users can immediately switch over to the other server to access their
 emails.

 Basically, what I need is a setup such that any email sent to anybody on
my
 domain hits a primary forward-only SMTP server.  This SMTP server should
 verify that the user exists on the domain, then forward this message to
each
 the two separate mail servers, but only after doing a virus scan and a
 running a spam filter on it.  All this is pretty straight forward and can
 easily be accomplished via aliases, filtering etc. Here is where it gets
 tricky.

 The big fellas upstairs then want the ability to synchronize mailboxes
 between the two mail stores on an hourly or nightly basis. For instance if
 one user in the States uses pop.us.mydomain.org to pop/imap his mail, his
US
 mail box will be the master for the nightly sync.  If a user in India pops
 his mail from pop.in.mydomain.org to pop/imap his mail, then the India
mail
 box will be the master for the nightly sync. I would like to employ this
 method rather than just wipe non-master-push master data to non-master,
 as this would save immense bandwidth.

 I thought about this. With unix tools, it appears from the outset, to be
 pretty easy(rsync, perl, possible IMAP commands, etc). However, it occurs
to
 me that since the Main MTA will only be forwarding the email, and the
actual
 MDAs will be the servers in the States/India, the messages, though the
same
 in body and subject content, will not be the same in overall content. The
 MDA's will append some of their unique info just prior to delivery. This
 means I can't just hash the message to get a KEY to sync on.  Since I have
 to scan the emails for Spam and Virii(thereby necessitating the use of
 filters on the MTA server), I have just come up with the idea to run the
 email through a third filter which inserts a special unique line in the
 header portion of the message. That way, I can later use that unique
header
 as a key for the messages.

 Do any of you have any recommendations for a better way to maybe do this?
I
 have the Virus Scanner stuff working okay, so I have had to go through the
 Filter bit. I'm still not super strong with it, but I [think] this is the
 best way to approach it.

 What do you think? Should I stop smoking so much crack? or will it slide?

 Thanks In Advance,

 bill



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Re: [courier-users] Re: Courier-IMAP questions

2003-02-21 Thread Stefan Rusterholz
Sorry for the gap, but for me it was bedtime (switzerland) ;-)

Am Freitag, 21.02.03 um 01:52 Uhr schrieb Sam Varshavchik:

Stefan Rusterholz writes:


bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d
AUTHFAILURE
bash-2.05a#


Wrong command.  The correct one is ../sbin/pop3d start


Unfortunately it reads:
bash-2.05a# pwd
/usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin


When in doubt, see INSTALL:
  Use the following command to start the Courier-IMAP server:
$ /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start


I re-run make install and make install-configure. Then I manually ran 
imapd.rc start which isn't very talkative :-/

bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start
bash-2.05a# ps -caux | grep imapd
bash-2.05a#

I only use courier-imap, not whole courier (for smtp etc. I use postfix 
which is currently running fine).
I had no errors during configure, make or make install (as far as I can 
see)
Is there a logfile which might help?

best regards
Stefan Rusterholz



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[courier-users] Re: Courier-IMAP questions

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Stefan Rusterholz writes:


Sorry for the gap, but for me it was bedtime (switzerland) ;-)

Am Freitag, 21.02.03 um 01:52 Uhr schrieb Sam Varshavchik:

Stefan Rusterholz writes:


bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d
AUTHFAILURE
bash-2.05a#


Wrong command.  The correct one is ../sbin/pop3d start


Unfortunately it reads:
bash-2.05a# pwd
/usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin


When in doubt, see INSTALL:
  Use the following command to start the Courier-IMAP server:
$ /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start


I re-run make install and make install-configure. Then I manually ran 
imapd.rc start which isn't very talkative :-/

bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start
bash-2.05a# ps -caux | grep imapd

So?

Please stop making half-assed assumptions.


bash-2.05a#

I only use courier-imap, not whole courier (for smtp etc. I use postfix 
which is currently running fine).
I had no errors during configure, make or make install (as far as I can 
see)
Is there a logfile which might help?

There is no log file to help.  RTFM.



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Re: [courier-users] Strange Feature Request...hints/ideas requested

2003-02-21 Thread Jeff Potter
If PHB's just want something 'redundant', do:

1. set up 2 boxes w/ courier; box A and box B.
2. set MX records for mail.domain.com pointing to both A and B; give A 
priority 10, B priority 20.
3. set all mail to be delivered to, say, /home/mail/X (on both boxes; 
although when everything's up, all RFC-compliant servers will use 
server A to send incoming email)
4. rsync A-B every hour, 30 mins, whatever.
5. set DNS for pop.domain.com pointing to A. Run a health-check script 
on your DNS server that modifies the value of pop.domain.com to be 'B' 
when 'A' is not accessible. When 'A' becomes available again, run rsync 
B-A. If you want to be really fun, run DNS on physical box A and B, 
have domain.com delegate mail.domain.com and pop.domain.com to your 2 
boxes; have A always return only its own values, have B return A's 
values but modified when A is inaccessible. Since DNS queries time out 
after ~2 seconds and try the next known name server, you can 
effectively get a poor-man's failover this way.

You will probably lose some email on the boundry cases unless you are 
very careful about syncing the two boxes and having the DNS correctly 
switching. (You should also probably not run the mail server on the box 
that's not the 'live' one at any give time -- spammers seem to love 
secondary mail servers.)

I wouldn't recommend doing this -- you're bound to cause more pain than 
you realize. Maybe there's a better way??

cheers,
Jeff



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[courier-users] Squirrel Mail set up and working great. Need SSL for security now

2003-02-21 Thread Kapil Khanna
Hi All,
Thanks every one for helping me set up Squirrel Mail, especially the
integration between Sendmail--Procmail--Courier-Imap.
Now that i have SquirrelMail running, my users are pretty happy. They are
concerned abt security though.The next thing i need to do is setup
SquirrelMail to run via SSL. I also want to ensure that if a user enters
http://mail.domain.com, they are redirected to https://mail.domain.com. 
What specific changes to i need to make in the httpd.conf file to accomplish
this? Also how do i check if the mod_ssl.so is installed and apache can indeed
listen on SSL? I am running Redhat 7.2 and Apache 1.3.*.
Thanks ...
--Kapil





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[courier-users] Debian unstable + courier 0.40.2-3

2003-02-21 Thread Theo Cabrerizo Diem
Hi,

I using Debian unstable, and after some apt-get upgrades =) ... I
started to see this error messagi in mail.log :

Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
maildirwatch
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
maildirwatch
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error

Where imap is trying to create maildirwatch ? I tried DEBUG_LOGIN=1, but
nothing different shows up except login commands .. How can I debug this
? (sorry for stupidity =) )

Have anyone had this problem ?

Thanx !



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Re: [courier-users] multiline responses?

2003-02-21 Thread Brian Candler
On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 08:34:49PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I tried searching the mailing list but didn't find anything specific.
I have a perlfilter setup and according to the courierfilter man page,
The result code may be a multiline response,
just like a regular SMTP reply.
How exactly do I provide a multiline response?

See the SMTP spec, RFC2821, and search for multiline

   The case of expanding a mailbox list requires a multiline reply, such
   as:

  C: EXPN Example-People
  S: 250-Jon Postel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  S: 250-Fred Fonebone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  S: 250 Sam Q. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [courier-users] Debian unstable + courier 0.40.2-3

2003-02-21 Thread Matt Hyclak
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 10:57:27AM -0300, Theo Cabrerizo Diem enlightened us:
 Hi,
 
 I using Debian unstable, and after some apt-get upgrades =) ... I
 started to see this error messagi in mail.log :
 
 Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
 maildirwatch
 Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
 Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
 maildirwatch
 Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
 
 Where imap is trying to create maildirwatch ? I tried DEBUG_LOGIN=1, but
 nothing different shows up except login commands .. How can I debug this
 ? (sorry for stupidity =) )
 
 Have anyone had this problem ?
 
 Thanx !

I believe that's the error you get if fam is not running.

Matt

-- 
Matt Hyclak
Department of Mathematics
Ohio University
(740) 593-1263



msg10675/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


[courier-users] imap/pop over ssl

2003-02-21 Thread Bret Lewis Sherman
Hello, I am trying to configure imap/pop over ssl and am having some 
serious troubles. Here is what i DO have working: 

1) postfix with courier-imap (both imap and pop3 without ssl work fine)
2) apache with ssl works fine (so at least ssl seems to function with 
apache)

Basically i start up imapd-ssl.rc and pop3-ssl.rc and when i try to access 
my mail via pop3-ssl or imap-ssl in a ssl client, the client returns an 
error code: 0x800ccc0e. This seems to be true with several different mail 
clients. The main one i am using is Outlook (because my clients will need 
it). 

I know my question is kinda vague but any help is greatly appreciated. In 
particular: 

Does anyone know of a step-by-step howto for courier-imap ssl?
Where can i find out more about what is happening (log files entries?). 


I have been working at this for days and am extremely fustrated, any help 
however small is greatly appreciated.



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Re: [courier-users] Problem at mail client.

2003-02-21 Thread Brian Candler
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 12:31:52AM +0530, mubashir.ahmed wrote:
  I am writing a proxy server for courier imap. It is still in the
initial stage. I am getting a request from the mail client and i am
passing it to the mail server (without any processing in between). and
I am getting a response from the mail server and passing it to the
mail client(without any processing in between).

 But during handshaking signals only iam getting problem. The mail
client is not writing anything in the buffer and it is returning -1. I
am enclosing the main part of the code and the output where it is
getting struck.I printed the errno value that is also not set.

Buy a copy of the superb book Unix Network Programming volume 1, by the
late Richard Stevens (pub. Prentice Hall). Trust me, it is absolutely worth
the money.

Buy Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment at the same time, if you
can afford it.

Regards,

Brian.


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[courier-users] Expunge items?

2003-02-21 Thread Arthur Kerpician
Title: Mesaj



Hi,

Is there a way to 
move deleted mesages from outlook 2002 directly to trash, without marking them 
first as deleted? I'm using IMAP_MOVE_EXPUNGE_TO_TRASH=1 and it's working ok, 
but I don't want to go to editpurge each time I want to really delete an 
item.

I know it's more 
like an outlook issue, but I really didn't find any solution for 
this.

Thanks,
Arthur



Re: [courier-users] Debian unstable + courier 0.40.2-3

2003-02-21 Thread Theo Cabrerizo Diem
Thanx !!! .. worked ... 

(Never do a cleanup on your server after 3:00 AM) =)

[]'s

On Fri, 2003-02-21 at 11:07, Matt Hyclak wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 10:57:27AM -0300, Theo Cabrerizo Diem enlightened us:
  Hi,
  
  I using Debian unstable, and after some apt-get upgrades =) ... I
  started to see this error messagi in mail.log :
  
  Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
  maildirwatch
  Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
  Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
  maildirwatch
  Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
  
  Where imap is trying to create maildirwatch ? I tried DEBUG_LOGIN=1, but
  nothing different shows up except login commands .. How can I debug this
  ? (sorry for stupidity =) )
  
  Have anyone had this problem ?
  
  Thanx !
 
 I believe that's the error you get if fam is not running.
 
 Matt



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Re: [courier-users] multiline responses?

2003-02-21 Thread ricardo

Thank you folks that kindly responded to my question.

I had an additional question... The control file may have multiple 'r'
lines, meaning multiple local recipients. If I'm looping through the list 
of recipients and delivery is ok for some but not for others, how can
that be done?

I mean, if I spit out a 500 error, won't that disallow delivery for ALL
recipients? Is it possible to selectively allow some recipients and
disallow others? 

Thanks again,

Ricardo

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:02:37 + Brian Candler wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 08:34:49PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I tried searching the mailing list but didn't find anything specific.
 I have a perlfilter setup and according to the courierfilter man 
 page,
 The result code may be a multiline response,
 just like a regular SMTP reply.
 How exactly do I provide a multiline response?
 
 See the SMTP spec, RFC2821, and search for multiline
 
The case of expanding a mailbox list requires a multiline reply, such
as:
 
   C: EXPN Example-People
   S: 250-Jon Postel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   S: 250-Fred Fonebone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   S: 250 Sam Q. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: [courier-users] Problem at mail client.

2003-02-21 Thread Brian Candler
 Buy a copy of the superb book Unix Network Programming volume 1, by the
 late Richard Stevens (pub. Prentice Hall). Trust me, it is absolutely worth
 the money.

Also, here are a couple of existing proxies which maybe you can modify to
meet your needs:

http://www.i2pi.com/smunge/
http://www.vergenet.net/linux/perdition/


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Re: [courier-users] multiline responses?

2003-02-21 Thread ricardo

Hello again,

Sorry for the ignorance, I guess I don't quite understand how this is
supposed to work.

I'm setting up the multiline response now, as the RFC states. But the
error that gets sent back to the sender (in the mail status report)
contains only the very last line of the multiline response. How can I
make it such the entire response is echoed back to the sender?

Thanks
Ricardo

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:02:37 + Brian Candler wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 08:34:49PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I tried searching the mailing list but didn't find anything specific.
 I have a perlfilter setup and according to the courierfilter man 
 page,
 The result code may be a multiline response,
 just like a regular SMTP reply.
 How exactly do I provide a multiline response?
 
 See the SMTP spec, RFC2821, and search for multiline
 
The case of expanding a mailbox list requires a multiline reply, such
as:
 
   C: EXPN Example-People
   S: 250-Jon Postel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   S: 250-Fred Fonebone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   S: 250 Sam Q. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]



[courier-users] userdb -show

2003-02-21 Thread jeff jansen
According to the userdb man page

 userdb -show path

 If the first argument to userdb is -show, userdb displays
 the contents of /etc/courier/userdb. If
 /etc/courier/userdb is a subdirectory, path must refer to
 a specific file in /etc/courier/userdb. The -f option can
 be used instead of path in order to specify an arbitrary
 file.

So I have a file called 'locals' in the userdb directory -  
/etc/courier/userdb/locals

But I can't get userdb to work without using the -f option 
and specifying the whole path.  

# userdb -show locals
/etc/courier/userdb: not a file.

# userdb -show -f /etc/courier/userdb/locals
postmaster
snip

It's not actually a problem to use the -f option, but hey, 
I'm lazy! :-)

Jeff Jansen





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[courier-users] Outlook evilness

2003-02-21 Thread Michel Gallant
Title: Message



Hey 
there,
I was wondering if 
there was an option in courier-imap to automatically purge deleted 
messages. I use the move purged messages to the trash folder option, and I 
would like users of outlook to just have to delete their messages, without 
having to do a purge deleted messages in each folder. Outlook express has 
an option to automatically purge deleted items on exit, but it seems outlook has 
nothing of the sort. My lusers will be using phpgroupware along with 
outlook and I'd like things to work as similarly between the two and the whole 
delete-purge deleted items is foreign to them. I know this likely gets 
discussed often, and I was wondering if anyone had a solution, either a courier 
patch or an outlook add-in. Thanks


[courier-users] Outlook evilness

2003-02-21 Thread Michel Gallant
Hi,
I'm sure other people have run into this situation before.  I have users
using IMAP in outlook.  They're all confused with the delete-purge combo
and would like it to automatically purge deleted message like Outlook
Express can.  I have the option to move purged messages into the Trash
folder activated.  I can't seem to find any option in Outlook 2000/XP to
automatically purge deleted messages.  I was wondering if courier had an
option for this, or if someone had made a patch for it, or if someone
knows of an outlook add-in to do automatic purging.   I just figured I'd
ask before I went and kludged together some perl to do it on the server

Thanks



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Re: CRAM-SHA1 =?unknown?b?c3Vja3MuwqA=?= was: [courier-users] ESMTPAuth and LDAP problems

2003-02-21 Thread Matt Pavlovich
 Well, one final bootnote is that it is actually possible to do something 
 like that with the existing CRAM-hash method.  And, in fact, the authuserdb 
 module does exactly that.
 
 Without getting into the gory details, the computation of the final 
 CRAM-hash value begins with the cleartext password.  It is possible to begin 
 the first step of computing the hash, and save the intermediate hash code. 
 Then finish the computation when the client replies to the challenge.

So CRAM hash methods could be supported with hashed passwords stored in the 
directory?  I would definitely like to submit this as a feature request if it 
is technically possible.

-- 
Matt Pavlovich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Allegiance Telecom, Inc.



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Re: [courier-users] Re: Courier-IMAP questions

2003-02-21 Thread Stefan Rusterholz
Stefan Rusterholz writes:

Sorry for the gap, but for me it was bedtime (switzerland) ;-)
Am Freitag, 21.02.03 um 01:52 Uhr schrieb Sam Varshavchik:

Stefan Rusterholz writes:


bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d
AUTHFAILURE
bash-2.05a#


Wrong command.  The correct one is ../sbin/pop3d start


Unfortunately it reads:
bash-2.05a# pwd
/usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin


When in doubt, see INSTALL:
  Use the following command to start the Courier-IMAP server:
$ /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start

I re-run make install and make install-configure. Then I manually ran 
imapd.rc start which isn't very talkative :-/
bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start
bash-2.05a# ps -caux | grep imapd

So?

Please stop making half-assed assumptions.

Hey, please don't offend me. I only try to get the heck out why it 
isn't working. If I was impolite anywhere in my mail please tell me - 
it surely wasn't my intention.
Running imapd.rc start did neither tell me that all was ok and imapd 
started nor did it tell me that there was an error. This is no help for 
getting a clue why it doesn't work. That the imap-daemon doesn't run 
seems obvious to me since there is no process listed by ps which could 
be it.


There is no log file to help.  RTFM.

Damn, I -did- that (I wrote that in the first mail) and I also -asked- 
if there was more appropriate information elsewhere. If you just don't 
want to help me, then say that and don't just get rude!
For your convenience, I read 
http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/INSTALL.html and 
http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/FAQ.html
None of them seemed to contain information helping me. Please tell me 
-what- F***ing Manual I should read then instead of just bashing me!

I thought I could get help here (that's why it is a mailing-list, isn't 
it?), but perhaps I was wrong and newbies are not welcome. sad.

regards
Stefan Rusterholz



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Re: [courier-users] Squirrel Mail set up and working great. Need SSL for security now

2003-02-21 Thread Jeff Potter
To paraphrase sam: Wrong list. The apache list is down the hall, last 
door on the right. You need to set http://blah's conf to issue 
redirects to https://blah, and run squirrelmail under the https 
docroot. Squirrel Mail has no clue it's running under https or http.

-J

On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 09:02 AM, Kapil Khanna wrote:

Hi All,
Thanks every one for helping me set up Squirrel Mail, especially the
integration between Sendmail--Procmail--Courier-Imap.
Now that i have SquirrelMail running, my users are pretty happy. They 
are
concerned abt security though.The next thing i need to do is setup
SquirrelMail to run via SSL. I also want to ensure that if a user 
enters
http://mail.domain.com, they are redirected to https://mail.domain.com.
What specific changes to i need to make in the httpd.conf file to 
accomplish
this? Also how do i check if the mod_ssl.so is installed and apache 
can indeed
listen on SSL? I am running Redhat 7.2 and Apache 1.3.*.
Thanks ...
--Kapil





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Re: [courier-users] imap/pop over ssl

2003-02-21 Thread Jeff Potter
Does anyone know of a step-by-step howto for courier-imap ssl?
Where can i find out more about what is happening (log files entries?).


in imapd-ssl, make sure IMAPDSSLSTART=YES is set. That's all I had to 
do.

Are you sure it's running?
% netstat -anp | grep 993

-j



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[courier-users] RPM Build on RH 7.3 problem

2003-02-21 Thread S. William Schulz

Hello,

Trying to build courier-imap 1.7.0 on a RH 7.3 (plus updates) system.
When I try to start the build, I get the following error:

[ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -ta courier-imap-1.7.0.tar.bz2 
error: failed build dependencies:
fam-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
postgresql-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
mysql-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
openldap-servers   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3


I'd expect this if I had fam, postgresql, mysql, etc installed without
the -devel packages, but none of them are installed:

[ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i mysql
[ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i postgres
[ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i fam   

I'm not sure why they all end up in the BuildPreReq's:

BuildPreReq: textutils openssl-devel fileutils rpm = 4.0.2 sed perl
gdbm-devel pam-devel fam-devel postgresql-devel openldap-devel
mysql-devel openldap-servers


Is there something I'm missing or a way to turn that off other than by
editing the spec file?  Or is that the preferred method?

Thanks,

SS



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[courier-users] location of mail server name

2003-02-21 Thread Russell Premont

I want to change the name of the mail server. Can someone tell me which file
has the information in it?

Thanks,
Russell Premont







 The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most
discoveries, is not Eureka!, but That's funny...

-Isaac Asimov



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Re: [courier-users] RPM Build on RH 7.3 problem

2003-02-21 Thread Anand Buddhdev
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:46:03AM -0500, S. William Schulz wrote:

 Hello,
 
 Trying to build courier-imap 1.7.0 on a RH 7.3 (plus updates) system.
 When I try to start the build, I get the following error:
 
 [ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -ta courier-imap-1.7.0.tar.bz2 
 error: failed build dependencies:
 fam-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
 postgresql-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
 mysql-devel   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
 openldap-servers   is needed by courier-imap-1.7.0-1.7.3
 
 
 I'd expect this if I had fam, postgresql, mysql, etc installed without
 the -devel packages, but none of them are installed:
 
 [ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i mysql
 [ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i postgres
 [ss@rigel ss]$ rpm -qa | grep -i fam   
 
 I'm not sure why they all end up in the BuildPreReq's:
 
 BuildPreReq: textutils openssl-devel fileutils rpm = 4.0.2 sed perl
 gdbm-devel pam-devel fam-devel postgresql-devel openldap-devel
 mysql-devel openldap-servers
 
 
 Is there something I'm missing or a way to turn that off other than by
 editing the spec file?  Or is that the preferred method?

Strictly speaking, if you're not going to use postgresql, mysql or ldap,
you don't need the -devel packages, and you can build courier without
them. fam provides enhanced functionality for courier-imap, but again,
it's not necessary. I think Sam added all these dependencies in because
a lot of people were trying to build without the -devel packages,
and failing, and then asking for help on the list. You can build
without them by extracting and editing the spec file. Alternatively
(this is more trouble than it's worth, I think), you can use rpm to do a
pseudo-installation of the -devel packages (ie. don't install the files,
just update the RPM database) and this will keep RPM happy, but when
courier-imap is built, it won't find the files, and it will be built
without support for those packages.

-- 
Anand Buddhdev
http://anand.org


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Re: [courier-users] RPM Build on RH 7.3 problem

2003-02-21 Thread Gordon Messmer
On Fri, 2003-02-21 at 09:58, Anand Buddhdev wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:46:03AM -0500, S. William Schulz wrote:
 
  I'm not sure why they all end up in the BuildPreReq's:
  
  BuildPreReq: textutils openssl-devel fileutils rpm = 4.0.2 sed perl
  gdbm-devel pam-devel fam-devel postgresql-devel openldap-devel
  mysql-devel openldap-servers
  
 Strictly speaking, if you're not going to use postgresql, mysql or ldap,
 you don't need the -devel packages, and you can build courier without
 them...

Or you can just grab pre-built packages from somewhere:
http://www.dragonsdawn.net/ftp/dragonsdawn-packages/7.3/i386/




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[courier-users] Problem between uucp-land and the internet world

2003-02-21 Thread Dirk Kulmsee
Hi list,

I see some problems sending mail between dialup systems (sendmail), my
courier 0.40.2 and other internet systems.

When a dialup system sends in mail via uucp, the headers on thee recipient's
end look like this (x-headers etc. not included here)
---headers begin ---
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Return-Path: 
Received: from ods.dokom.net (ods.dokom.net [:::195.253.8.195])
  (IDENT: daemon)
  by jupiter.netgroup.de with esmtp; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:28 +0100
Received: from uucp (capricomp!kulmseed)
  by ods.dokom.net with uucp; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:24 +0100
From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Fri Feb 21 10:15:18 2003
Received: from Terra (terra.netgroup-intern.de [192.168.1.2])
 by Arktur (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23743;
 Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:18 +0100
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Dirk Kulmsee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: test
---headers end---

This would be fine with me, but some mailservers quit on the Received
header with an ! in it. One of them is t-online.de, the largest german ISP
:-(. When the same mail is sent to an account there, an extra empty line is
somehow inserted, causing the MTA to think headers end here. The result is
this:

---headers begin ---
Return-Path: 
Received: from ods.dokom.net ([195.253.8.195]) by mailin00.aul.t-online.de
with esmtp id 18m9HB-1jyzkOC; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:25 +0100
Received: from uucp (capricomp!kulmseed)
  by ods.dokom.net with uucp; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:24 +0100

---headers end and body begins 
From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Fri Feb 21 10:15:18 2003
Received: from Terra (terra.netgroup-intern.de [192.168.1.2])
by Arktur (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23743;
Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:18 +0100
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Dirk Kulmsee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: nochn test
--- blabla until end of mail---

Q: how can i tell courier to write this Received with [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead
of a bang path? Is there a choice like uucp-dom / uucp-uudom with sendmail?
(i don't believe there is)

The courier docs say:
The address rewriting rules are fixed, but they are expected to work in
nearly every case. If you find yourself in some oddball situation, you'll
just have to invest the time to add custom header rewriting code.

Q: is this an oddball situation? Where and how should i start trying to
rewrite the headers?

Thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

Dirk




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Re: [courier-users] Outlook evilness

2003-02-21 Thread Tim Hunter
Newer versions of Outlook Express do this, perhaps you should submit a
request to microsoft
Purging in IMAP is a client function.

Michel Gallant wrote:
 Hi,
 I'm sure other people have run into this situation before.  I have
 users using IMAP in outlook.  They're all confused with the
 delete-purge combo and would like it to automatically purge deleted
 message like Outlook Express can.  I have the option to move purged
 messages into the Trash folder activated.  I can't seem to find any
 option in Outlook 2000/XP to automatically purge deleted messages.  I
 was wondering if courier had an option for this, or if someone had
 made a patch for it, or if someone knows of an outlook add-in to do
 automatic purging.   I just figured I'd ask before I went and kludged
 together some perl to do it on the server

 Thanks



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Re: [courier-users] imap/pop over ssl

2003-02-21 Thread Bret Lewis Sherman
Yeah i have that set. I modified the file and restarted imapd-ssl. is that 
good enough or do i have to make courier reload the script somehow? 

Also i ran the netstat command and it returned: 
tcp0  0 127.0.0.1:993   0.0.0.0:*   LISTEN
5751/couriertcpd

Does this seem right? 

I really have just no clue where to look to fix this problem being i can't 
seem to find anything in the log files. 

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Jeff Potter wrote:

  Does anyone know of a step-by-step howto for courier-imap ssl?
  Where can i find out more about what is happening (log files entries?).
 
 in imapd-ssl, make sure IMAPDSSLSTART=YES is set. That's all I had to 
 do.
 
 Are you sure it's running?
 % netstat -anp | grep 993
 
 -j
 
 
 
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[courier-users] Re: Debian unstable + courier 0.40.2-3

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Theo Cabrerizo Diem writes:

Hi,

I using Debian unstable, and after some apt-get upgrades =) ... I
started to see this error messagi in mail.log :
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
maildirwatch
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Failed to create cache file:
maildirwatch
Feb 21 10:08:44 deedee imaplogin: Error: Input/output error
Where imap is trying to create maildirwatch ? I tried DEBUG_LOGIN=1, but
nothing different shows up except login commands .. How can I debug this
? (sorry for stupidity =) )
You've built Courier-IMAP with FAM support, but your famd isn't running or 
misconfigured.  This complaint is logged, but Courier-IMAP falls back to 
Plan B, and everything still works, more or less.

Fixing whatever's not working with your FAM daemon will make these 
complaints go away.



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Re: CRAM-SHA1 [UNKNOWN]sucks.  was: [courier-users] ESMTP Auth and LDAP problems

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Matt Pavlovich writes:

Well, one final bootnote is that it is actually possible to do something 
like that with the existing CRAM-hash method.  And, in fact, the authuserdb 
module does exactly that.

Without getting into the gory details, the computation of the final 
CRAM-hash value begins with the cleartext password.  It is possible to begin 
the first step of computing the hash, and save the intermediate hash code. 
Then finish the computation when the client replies to the challenge.
So CRAM hash methods could be supported with hashed passwords stored in the 
directory?  I would definitely like to submit this as a feature request if it 
is technically possible.
Well, its technically possible, but this is just a custom implementation 
hack for userdb.  There is no officially defined format for such a 
partially-computed hash field, in LDAP.  You've got {MD5}, you've also got 
{SHA1}, you've got a few other things as well.  You do not have anything 
that understands what {HALF-BAKED-HMAC-SHA1} is.





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[courier-users] Re: Expunge items?

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Arthur Kerpician writes:

[ HTML content follows ]

Mesaj
Hi,
 
Is there a way to move deleted mesages from outlook 2002 directly to
trash, without marking them first as deleted? I'm using
No there isn't, because this is simply how IMAP is defined to work.

I know it's more like an outlook issue, but I really didn't find any
It's more like an IMAP issue.  There is no IMAP command for remove this
message right now.  A message must first be marked with the \Deleted flag,
before there's any way to actually get rid of it.


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[courier-users] Re: Courier-IMAP questions

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Stefan Rusterholz writes:

Stefan Rusterholz writes:
Sorry for the gap, but for me it was bedtime (switzerland) ;-)
Am Freitag, 21.02.03 um 01:52 Uhr schrieb Sam Varshavchik:
Stefan Rusterholz writes:

bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d
AUTHFAILURE
bash-2.05a#
Wrong command.  The correct one is ../sbin/pop3d start

Unfortunately it reads:
bash-2.05a# pwd
/usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin
When in doubt, see INSTALL:
  Use the following command to start the Courier-IMAP server:
$ /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start
I re-run make install and make install-configure. Then I manually ran 
imapd.rc start which isn't very talkative :-/
bash-2.05a# /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/imapd.rc start
bash-2.05a# ps -caux | grep imapd
So?

Please stop making half-assed assumptions.
Hey, please don't offend me. I only try to get the heck out why it 
isn't working. If I was impolite anywhere in my mail please tell me - 
it surely wasn't my intention.
The very least you could've done is read the INSTALL file, which gives you 
the explicit command right there.  As mentioned
http://www.courier-mta.org/FAQ.html#help, you need to actually demonstrate 
that you've tried to solve the problem yourself.  Reading the INSTALL file 
is the very minimum that would be expected of you.  Just the glaring fact 
that you haven't read the installation instructions is a big, big turn-off 
to anyone who might be inclined to help out.


Running imapd.rc start did neither tell me that all was ok and imapd 
started
Did you actually telnet to port 143 and confirmed that for yourself?

Free hint: nobody who starts Courier-IMAP succesfully will see a process 
called imap running right off the bat.

 nor did it tell me that there was an error. This is no help for 
getting a clue why it doesn't work. That the imap-daemon doesn't run 
seems obvious to me since there is no process listed by ps which could 
be it.
Please explain who told you that you should expect a process called imap 
to be running, at this point in time.

For your information:  the process started by imapd.rc is called 
couriertcpd, which opens the network port and listens for network 
connections.  Only once a connection is established you'd see anything else 
running.

Even if you have no idea what should or should not be running, the very 
least you should've done before summarily concluding that nothing is running 
is to actually enter a simple command to verify whether anything is 
listening on port 143, or not.



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[courier-users] Re: Correct return code to use in mail filter (amavis-ng perlfilter)

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
John Laur writes:

Right now I am returning a 550 with some text describing what the mail
server is doing for both cases, but wondered if any of the following
were possible:
For case #1 A return code that would cause a MUA NOT to attempt to
re-send the message again. Outlook, for instance tries to send the
message tons of times right in a row and thus causes about 10 of the
exact same virus notifications to go out for the one mail.
That's what a 5xx is supposed to do.  If Outlook is not doing that, it's a 
bug in Outlook.

For case #2:  A return code that would indicate to the MUA that the
message has been accepted with an error, but cause courier NOT to
continue delivery of the message
There is no such thing in ESMTP.



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[courier-users] Re: location of mail server name

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Russell Premont writes:

I want to change the name of the mail server. Can someone tell me which file
has the information in it?
There are several files that define various domain names:  me, locals, 
hosteddomains, and half a dozen more.



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[courier-users] Re: imap/pop over ssl

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Bret Lewis Sherman writes:

Basically i start up imapd-ssl.rc and pop3-ssl.rc and when i try to access 
my mail via pop3-ssl or imap-ssl in a ssl client, the client returns an 
error code: 0x800ccc0e. This seems to be true with several different mail 
clients. The main one i am using is Outlook (because my clients will need 
it). 
The usual explanation for a completely uninformative error diagnostic from 
Microsoft software when SSL is involved is either:

A) Wrong protocol version (SSL2/SSL3/TLS1), or

B) The client does not like unsigned or self-signed certificates.

The protocol version can be adjusted in imapd-ssl configuration file.  The 
client's configuration must be adjusted to indicate that your server 
certificate is trusted.  Someone once said that you do that by actually 
firing up Internet Explorer, and telling it to open the certificate file.  
The resulting dialog should have an option to import and mark the 
certificate as trusted.



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[courier-users] Re: ldap aliases

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Marek Pasovsky writes:

Anybody any idea what did I do wrong?

Marek

ps. here some configs I find relevant:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# courierldapaliasd query esmtp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
maildrop: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
maildrop: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you put qls.test in locals, instead of hosteddomains, all these 
addresses should be userid only, without the domain.



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[courier-users] Re: userdb -show

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
jeff jansen writes:

# userdb -show -f /etc/courier/userdb/locals
postmaster
snip
It's not actually a problem to use the -f option, but hey, 
I'm lazy! :-)
That's what scripts are for.  I never intended to have the userdb scripts 
manually used, by hand.  They are meant to be wrapped around your own custom 
code that manages your accounts in whatever way tickles your fancy.



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[courier-users] Re: Problem between uucp-land and the internet world

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
Dirk Kulmsee writes:


Received: from ods.dokom.net (ods.dokom.net [:::195.253.8.195])
  (IDENT: daemon)
  by jupiter.netgroup.de with esmtp; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:28 +0100
Received: from uucp (capricomp!kulmseed)
  by ods.dokom.net with uucp; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:24 +0100
From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Fri Feb 21 10:15:18 2003
Received: from Terra (terra.netgroup-intern.de [192.168.1.2])
 by Arktur (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23743;
 Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:15:18 +0100
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Dirk Kulmsee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: test
---headers end---
This would be fine with me, but some mailservers quit on the Received
header with an ! in it. One of them is t-online.de, the largest german ISP
I doubt that this is the case.  Something's inserting the crap From_ line 
right afterwards immediately after this received line.  It sure ain't 
Courier; so figure out where this crap is coming from, and get rid of it.

t-online.de is definitely choking on the From_ line, not the !.





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[courier-users] Re: multiline responses?

2003-02-21 Thread Sam Varshavchik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thank you folks that kindly responded to my question.

I had an additional question... The control file may have multiple 'r'
lines, meaning multiple local recipients. If I'm looping through the list 
of recipients and delivery is ok for some but not for others, how can
that be done?

I mean, if I spit out a 500 error, won't that disallow delivery for ALL
recipients? Is it possible to selectively allow some recipients and
disallow others? 
If you spit out a 500 error the sender will assume that all addresses got 
rejected, no matter what you end up doing with the message itself.  That's 
how SMTP works.

There is a way to do this with local accounts, using the localmailfilter API 
(which is a bit difficult to get right, and uses a completely different 
filtering interface).  But this uses a slightly modified SMTP result format 
that only Courier properly understands, and reports on.

See http://www.courier-mta.org/draft-varshavchik-exdata-smtpext.txt for a 
brief writeup.  I identified this design flaw with SMTP over three years 
ago.  I wrote it up and floated this idea, but my impression was that nobody 
else really cared about it, and the effort to push this through would simply 
be not worth the agita.



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Re: [courier-users] Re: userdb -show

2003-02-21 Thread Chris Berry
From: Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED]
# userdb -show -f /etc/courier/userdb/locals
postmaster
snip
It's not actually a problem to use the -f option, but hey, I'm lazy! :-)
That's what scripts are for.  I never intended to have the userdb scripts 
manually used, by hand.  They are meant to be wrapped around your own 
custom code that manages your accounts in whatever way tickles your fancy.
I can't resist, try man alias

Chris Berry
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Systems Administrator
JM Associates
Linux and I have a love/hate relationship.  I hate its complexity until I 
figure out how something works, then I love its power.

_
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



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[courier-users] Felicidades!!!!

2003-02-21 Thread Sandra






  

  FELICIDADES

  
  

  Entre miles
  de familias, la suya ha sido seleccionada para unirse a nosotros y celebrar
  Los Cien Años
  de Magia del fantastico Mundo de Disney.
  Contactenos
  inmediatamente
  
  

  
  

  
  
  Llame
  gratis en EE UU y Puerto Rico al 1-800-379-0181
  Fuera
  de EE UU al 001 -305- 267- 0520 o 001 -305- 267- 0180
  Su
  número
  de confirmación: R-022203
  
  
  
  
  Para reclamar su premio llame dentro de
  las proximas 48 horas. Oferta valida para una familia. 
  Horario
  de atencion de 9:00 a.m. a 9:00 p.m. hora de Miami

   




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Re: [courier-users] Re: imap/pop over ssl

2003-02-21 Thread Barley
I'd tend to think option A is more likely. I have been
playing with pop and imap over ssl with Outlook for a
while and have not found it to do anything other than
throw warnings that you can then accept or decline
(this is with newer versions of Outlook and Express).

Specifically, if the CN on the certificate is not
exactly the same as the server name entered in Outlook
config, Outlook throws an warning. It throws a
different warning if the cert is self-signed (but
either way you can still accept it).

To install a self-signed cert on your client computers,
save the certificate as mycert.crt and then double
click it in Windows. Click Install Certificate and
pretty much accept the defaults. It should then let you
use a self-signed cert with no warnings.

You can view the certs you have installed or add/remove
them from within IE's ToolsInternet Options or from
the certificate manager in XP.

Hope that helps.

Gregg


 Bret Lewis Sherman writes:

  Basically i start up imapd-ssl.rc and pop3-ssl.rc
and when i try to access
  my mail via pop3-ssl or imap-ssl in a ssl client,
the client returns an
  error code: 0x800ccc0e. This seems to be true with
several different mail
  clients. The main one i am using is Outlook
(because my clients will need
  it).

 The usual explanation for a completely uninformative
error diagnostic from
 Microsoft software when SSL is involved is either:

 A) Wrong protocol version (SSL2/SSL3/TLS1), or

 B) The client does not like unsigned or self-signed
certificates.

 The protocol version can be adjusted in imapd-ssl
configuration file.  The
 client's configuration must be adjusted to indicate
that your server
 certificate is trusted.  Someone once said that you
do that by actually
 firing up Internet Explorer, and telling it to open
the certificate file.
 The resulting dialog should have an option to import
and mark the
 certificate as trusted.




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ers





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[courier-users] Re: usedb -show

2003-02-21 Thread jeff jansen
 # userdb -show -f /etc/courier/userdb/locals
 postmaster
 snip

 That's what scripts are for.  I never intended to have the
 userdb scripts manually used, by hand.  They are meant to
 be wrapped around your own custom code that manages your
 accounts in whatever way tickles your fancy.

Fair enough.  That's just how I figured this out - writing a 
perl script that called `userdb -show locals` and then 
didn't work. :-)

Thanks for all the time you put into this list, Sam.  I'm 
always impressed with how quickly you answer even inane 
questions like this one.  Many folks pay big bucks to have 
the privilege of writing the developers of a piece of 
software.  If you had a nickel for every question you've 
answered...  We all really appreciate it.

Jeff Jansen


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