Coming a little late into this discussion, but I wanted to talk about
a few misconceptions regarding IntelliJ.
JetBrains sells 5 IDEs (one each for Java/Groovy/Scala, php, python,
ruby, and JS/HTML5). http://www.jetbrains.com/products.html In
addition, there are free ones for Java, and a couple o
On 30/07/2013 12:04 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Given there is still a huge majority of users that aren't on Linux, we
need a solution that runs on those other platforms. The more I think
of it and read the discussion here, the more I think it would be great
to have an Eclipse IDE installer/bootst
On 13-07-30 11:54 AM, "Andrew Ross" wrote:
>On 30/07/13 03:09, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
>> On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
>>> +1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
>>> do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
>>> th
On 30/07/13 03:09, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
+1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
that drives the rest of the install. We could ask for a list
ject-issues-dev@eclipse.org
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
On 07/30/2013 04:19 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Maybe its also because I do a lot of RCP development and always download the
RCP packages for the Eclipse IDE. Recently I decided
features
Von: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] Im Auftrag von Pascal
Rapicault
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Juli 2013 16:57
An: Cross project issues
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse
On 07/30/2013 04:49 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
But your point about a bloated UI is worthwhile thinking about really.
Its in the same direction of Doug's and Martin's comment. About either
controlling the UI bloat or being able to switch from J2EE to RCP to
WTP in the same IDE without installi
li 2013 16:38
An: Cross issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
On 07/30/2013 04:19 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Maybe its also because I do a lot of RCP development and always
download the RCP p
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
On 07/30/2013 04:19 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Maybe its also because I do a lot of RCP development and always download the
RCP packages for the Eclipse I
On 07/30/2013 04:18 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Again, the Uber package would be a way to show how bad things are.
I am pretty sure end-users don't want a package that shows how bad
things are ;)
If one of the contributors wants to see how bad things are, one can
click on the "Select All" button o
On 07/30/2013 04:19 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Maybe its also because I do a lot of RCP development and always
download the RCP packages for the Eclipse IDE. Recently I decided to
do some WTP stuff for myself. And the easiest way for me was to
download a WTP Eclipse IDE. So maybe you can say
"...
christian
Von: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] Im Auftrag von Mickael
Istria
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Juli 2013 16:12
An: cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages a
issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
On Jul 30, 2013, at 6:13 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik
mailto:konstantin.komissarc...@oracle.com>>
wrote:
> so they are actually useful to end-users.
Actually, we have
On 07/30/2013 03:57 PM, Igor Fedorenko wrote:
Are you suggesting forcing webtools on all java developers? Seriously?
I've just had a new look at the Eclipse community survey and since about
45% (~=100% - web dev perventage - RCP percentage - non-Java users
percentage) of Java users are doing so
On 2013-07-30 5:52 PM, Mickael Istria wrote:
And seriously what again is "Standard" vs Java vs Java EE ?
I agree with that point. I'd rather see those 3 ones replaced with a
general "Java and JEE" package. It seems to make total sense with the
current status of Java development use-cases.
On 07/30/2013 03:23 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Thats what I am told that "Ultimate" is everything. You can probably
still install more, and IntelliJ does not do C/C++ or other languages
(I believe).
The comparison with IntelliJ may not be very helpful when it comes to
packaging because Intelli
m: Dienstag, 30. Juli 2013 15:15
An: Cross issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
Are you sure that “Ultimate” actually means everything? To me the difference is
free vs non free.
I think t
. Juli 2013 14:05
An: Cross issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
An all in one IDE is a recipe for disaster and will contribute to even more FUD
around Eclipse.
Also I fail to see which improv
: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Campo,
Christian
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:56 PM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
I am not sure
ssues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Betreff: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
An all in one IDE is a recipe for disaster and will contribute to even more FUD
around Eclipse.
Also I fail to see which improvements to the user exper
On Jul 30, 2013, at 6:13 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik
wrote:
> > so they are actually useful to end-users.
>
> Actually, we have no evidence that users find packages useful. They download
> them because what else is there for them to do. Then if they are experienced,
> they know what’s inclu
On 30/07/2013 7:19 AM, Lars Vogel wrote:
I agree to that, users already find the Eclipse IDE overloaded. If you
have only one download with everything, Eclipse will feel more
overloaded and bloated to users.
Maybe http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ can show only the 5 most
popular distribut
, 2013 2:46 AM
*To:* Cross project issues
*Subject:* Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages
actually hurting Eclipse?
On 07/30/2013 12:35 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
Would user experience be better if there was only one Eclipse
package on the main download site th
On 07/30/2013 11:56 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
On 07/30/2013 11:01 AM, Pascal Rapicault wrote:
- On first start, prompt the user with a customization wizard that let the user
add more plugins to his Eclipse. For example, it
could ask questions about the language being used, the SCM, etc.
That w
> A frequent complaint is that Eclipse contains too many things for usage,
so many UI entries make usage more complicated and confusing. I can imagine
that people doing some GMF stuff really don't want WTP at all because it
introduce a lot of new menus, so a GMF user which is used to the Modeling
ickael
Istria
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:46 AM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
On 07/30/2013 12:35 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
Would user experience be better if there was only one Eclipse package on
+1
The vanilla Welcome page is pretty empty. It could be rearranged so
that the Welcome and Customization Wizard teaser appeared together.
Regards
Ed Willink
On 30/07/2013 10:56, Mickael Istria
wrote:
On 07/
On 07/30/2013 11:01 AM, Pascal Rapicault wrote:
- On first start, prompt the user with a customization wizard that let
the user add more plugins to his Eclipse. For example, it could ask
questions about the language being used, the SCM, etc.
That would be an interesting approach and a good alter
On 07/30/2013 12:35 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
Would user experience be better if there was only one Eclipse package
on the main download site that had pretty much everything that's in
the aggregated repository?
I really don't think so.
Packages are a good way to start which include
Packages are good because they provide a nice starting point for the
user since they aggregate the most common features together (e.g. Java
or Java EE).
I think we could improve the situation by:
- Getting rid of some of the obscure / too narrow focused packages.
- On first start, prompt the us
On 07/30/2013 09:09 AM, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
I'm very skeptical about P2 in the downloader. It was created in the
past (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_Installer) and never made
into real world. AFAIK it would suffer from the same issues as regular
P2 - does require java to be pre-downloa
On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
> +1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
> do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
> that drives the rest of the install. We could ask for a list of
> languages or platforms they want t
ehalf Of Andrew
Ross
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 6:11 PM
To: cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
+1
Looking at your Linux distro of choice or Android as examples... this model
works very well and is stil
>
+1.613.220.3223
*From: *Doug Schaefer
*Sent: *Monday, July 29, 2013 8:16 PM
*To: *Cross project issues
*Reply To: *Cross project issues
*Subject: *Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
That's great question I was asking myself looking at the Down
project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Doug
Schaefer
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 5:16 PM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually
hurting Eclipse?
That's great question I was asking myself looking at the Download page the
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>,
Cross project issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
Another potential solution that should be on the list for consideration is a
From: Doug SchaeferSent: Monday, July 29, 2013 8:16 PMTo: Cross project issuesReply To: Cross project issuesSubject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting Eclipse?
That's great question I was a
ject issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Date: Monday, 29 July, 2013 8:16 PM
To: Cross project issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurting
Eclipse?
That's great question I was asking my
.@oracle.com>>
Reply-To: Cross project issues
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Date: Monday, 29 July, 2013 6:35 PM
To: 'Cross project issues'
mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>
Subject: [cross-project-issues-dev] Are too many packages actually hurtin
There are twelve packages currently listed on the downloads page, not
counting the promoted ones. Are so many packages actually a benefit to
users? We try to define packages based on developer profiles, but real
developers rarely fit a profile. One of the most common complaints that I
have seen on
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