Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-08-02 Thread Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
I recommend Poly1305 by DJB or VMAC by Ted Krovetz and Wei Dai. Both are much faster than HMAC and have security proven in terms of an underlying block cipher. VMAC is implemented in the nice Crypto++ library by Wei Dai, Poly1305 is implemented by DJB and is also in the new nacl library

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-08-02 Thread James A. Donald
Joseph Ashwood wrote: RC-4 is broken when used as intended. ... If you take these into consideration, can it be used correctly? James A. Donald: Hence tricky Joseph Ashwood wrote: By the same argument a Viginere cipher is tricky to use securely, same with monoalphabetic and even Ceasar.

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-08-02 Thread Joseph Ashwood
-- From: James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com Subject: Re: Fast MAC algorithms? Joseph Ashwood wrote: RC-4 is broken when used as intended. ... If you take these into consideration, can it be used correctly? James A. Donald: Hence tricky

Protocol Construction WAS Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-08-02 Thread Joseph Ashwood
-- From: Ray Dillinger b...@sonic.net Subject: Re: Fast MAC algorithms? I mean, I get it that crypto is rarely the weakest link in a secured application. Still, why are folk always designing and adopting cryptographic tools for the next decade

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-08-01 Thread Joseph Ashwood
-- From: James A. Donald jam...@echeque.com Subject: Re: Fast MAC algorithms? james hughes wrote: On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:50 AM, James A. Donald wrote: No one can break arcfour used correctly - unfortunately, it is tricky to use it correctly

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-26 Thread James A. Donald
From: Nicolas Williams nicolas.willi...@sun.com For example, many people use arcfour in SSHv2 over AES because arcfour is faster than AES. Joseph Ashwood wrote: I would argue that they use it because they are stupid. ARCFOUR should have been retired well over a decade ago, it is weak, it

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-26 Thread james hughes
On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:50 AM, James A. Donald wrote: From: Nicolas Williams nicolas.willi...@sun.com For example, many people use arcfour in SSHv2 over AES because arcfour is faster than AES. Joseph Ashwood wrote: I would argue that they use it because they are stupid. ARCFOUR should

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-24 Thread John Gilmore
2) If you throw TCP processing in there, unless you are consistantly going to have packets on the order of at least 1000 bytes, your crypto algorithm is almost _irrelevant_. This is my experience, too. And I would add and lots of packets. The only crypto overhead that really mattered in a

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-24 Thread Peter Gutmann
[I realise this isn't crypto, but it's arguably security-relevant and arguably interesting :-)]. James Hughes hugh...@mac.com writes: TOEs that are implemented in a slow processor in a NIC card have been shown many times to be ineffective compared to keeping TCP in the fastest CPU (where it is

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-24 Thread james hughes
On Jul 24, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: [I realise this isn't crypto, but it's arguably security-relevant and arguably interesting :-)]. As long as we think this is interesting, (although I respectfully disagree that there are any inherent security problems with TOE. Maybe

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-23 Thread Joseph Ashwood
-- From: Nicolas Williams nicolas.willi...@sun.com Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Fast MAC algorithms? But that's not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for the fastest MACs, with extreme security considerations (e.g

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-23 Thread Peter Gutmann
mhey...@gmail.com mhey...@gmail.com writes: 2) If you throw TCP processing in there, unless you are consistantly going to have packets on the order of at least 1000 bytes, your crypto algorithm is almost _irrelevant_. [...] for a Linux 2.2.14 kernel, remember, this was 10 years ago. Could the

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-23 Thread mhey...@gmail.com
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:34 AM, Peter Gutmannpgut...@cs.auckland.ac.nz wrote: mhey...@gmail.com mhey...@gmail.com writes: 2) If you throw TCP processing in there, unless you are consistantly going to have packets on the order of at least 1000 bytes, your crypto algorithm is almost _irrelevant_.

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-23 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 05:34:13PM +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote: mhey...@gmail.com mhey...@gmail.com writes: 2) If you throw TCP processing in there, unless you are consistantly going to have packets on the order of at least 1000 bytes, your crypto algorithm is almost _irrelevant_. [...] for a

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-23 Thread james hughes
Note for Moderator. This is not crypto but TOE being the solution to networking performance problems is a perception that is dangerous to leave in the crypto community. On Jul 23, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 05:34:13PM +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote:

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-22 Thread Joseph Ashwood
-- From: Nicolas Williams nicolas.willi...@sun.com Subject: Fast MAC algorithms? Which MAC algorithms would you recommend? I didn't see the primary requirement, you never give a speed requirement. OMAC-AES-128 should function around 100MB/sec

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-22 Thread Jack Lloyd
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 07:15:02PM -0500, Nicolas Williams wrote: I've an application that is performance sensitive, which can re-key very often (say, every 15 minutes, or more often still), and where no MAC is accepted after 2 key changes. In one case the entity generating a MAC is also the

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-22 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 06:49:34AM +0200, Dan Kaminsky wrote: Operationally, HMAC-SHA-256 is the gold standard. There's wonky stuff all over the place -- Bernstein's polyaes work appeals to me -- but I wouldn't really ship anything but HMAC-SHA-256 at present time. Oh, I agree in general. As

Re: Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-22 Thread mhey...@gmail.com
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Nicolas Williamsnicolas.willi...@sun.com wrote: But that's not what I'm looking for here.  I'm looking for the fastest MACs, with extreme security considerations...In the crypto world one never designs weak-but-fast algorithms on purpose, only

Fast MAC algorithms?

2009-07-21 Thread Nicolas Williams
I've an application that is performance sensitive, which can re-key very often (say, every 15 minutes, or more often still), and where no MAC is accepted after 2 key changes. In one case the entity generating a MAC is also the only entity validating the MAC (but the MAC does go on the wire). I'm