Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Geoff Lane 
On Friday, September 24, 2010, 6:12:06 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:

 The technique used on Wikipedia won't give you the wrapping you want.
 What about using two spans and using this approach:

 lispan class=num2.1.1.2/spanspan class=textIt shall be construed
 a crime against humanity to recover an ancient musical instrument from a
 secluded cave and subsequently play it in front of others./span/li

 .legal li li {padding-left: 4em;}
 .legal li span.num {float: left; margin-right: .3em; }
 .legal li span.text {display: block; overflow: hidden; zoom: 1;}
---

Thanks Thierry. I've just tried your suggestion. Unfortunately, in
Firefox 3.6 both the automatic and manual numbering appear and in
Internet Explorer 8 I get the manual numbering stacked above the
paragraph text rather than to its left.

So:

(FF)
 1. 1. Blah-de-blah.

 (IE)
 1.
 Blah-de-blah.

 Just in case I've misunderstood and for info, I copied your text to
 the head of my document (which is HTML 4.01 Transitional),
 and increased the spacing between number and text to
 1em viz:

style type=text/css
  .legal li li {padding-left: 4em;}
  .legal li span.num {float: left; margin-right: 1em; }
  .legal li span.text {display: block; overflow: hidden; zoom: 1;}
/style

Then in the body of my document:

ol class=legal
  lispan class=num1./spanspan class=textbName/bbr
  The name of the organisation is .../span/li
  !-- etc. etc. --
/ol

Thanks again,

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Alan Gresley 

Geoff Lane wrote:

On Friday, September 24, 2010, 6:12:06 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


The technique used on Wikipedia won't give you the wrapping you want.
What about using two spans and using this approach:



lispan class=num2.1.1.2/spanspan class=textIt shall be construed
a crime against humanity to recover an ancient musical instrument from a
secluded cave and subsequently play it in front of others./span/li



.legal li li {padding-left: 4em;}
.legal li span.num {float: left; margin-right: .3em; }
.legal li span.text {display: block; overflow: hidden; zoom: 1;}

---

Thanks Thierry. I've just tried your suggestion. Unfortunately, in
Firefox 3.6 both the automatic and manual numbering appear and in
Internet Explorer 8 I get the manual numbering stacked above the
paragraph text rather than to its left.

So:

(FF)
 1. 1. Blah-de-blah.

 (IE)
 1.
 Blah-de-blah.

 Just in case I've misunderstood and for info, I copied your text to
 the head of my document (which is HTML 4.01 Transitional)



Hello Geoff,

Please check this article about doctypes [1].

This doctype,

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN

triggers quirks mode [2] in all browsers. IE8 quirks mode is the same 
as IE5 quirks mode. One thing which you face straight away is the box 
model differences [3]. This would have an impact here.



.legal li li {padding-left: 4em;}


Is the markup ok enough to give this doctype.


!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN 
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;




1. http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/
2. http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html
3. http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=E0989953B6F20B41



--
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Geoff Lane 
On Thursday, September 23, 2010, 8:10:48 PM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

 In theory you could do it with a combination of ::marker and CSS 
 counters.  In practice, nobody ever implemented ::marker.  And I 
 agree with the assertions made in the link from David H.'s post, that 
 you want the numbering in the HTML source instead of auto-generated 
 (at least for legal documents).   [...]
---

Thanks for your help, guys. I've cracked the layout provided that (as
David suggested) I hard-code the paragraph numbering. My solution
page paints rather than uses proper semantics, and so goes against
most of what's instinctive to me as a technical writer! The trick
seems to be to use paragraphs rather than proper lists so that the
automatic numbering doesn't appear.

Only two styles are used:
span.num {
float: left; 
margin-right: 1em; 
}
span.text {
display: block; 
overflow: hidden; 
zoom: 1;
}

In the body:

  pspan class=num1./span
  span class=textBlah blah blahbr
span class=num1.1/span
span class=textBlah blah blah/span
span class=num1.2/span
span class=textBlah blah blahbr
  span class=num1.2.1/span
  span class=textBlah blah blah/span/span
span class=num1.3/span/span/p
  pspan class=num2./span
  span class=textBlah blah blah/span/p
  !-- etc. --

Note the line breaks each time a subordinate list is started and that
each subordinate list is enclosed in the text span of it's parent.
This left-aligns the numbering of sub-paragraphs with the body text of
their parents.

Thanks again,

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Geoff Lane 
On Friday, September 24, 2010, 9:52:45 AM, Alan Gresley asked whether
the markup was OK for HTML 4.01 Strict.
---

Unfortunately not. I have to confess to being a naughty boy and using
deprecated attributes in the HTML! One day I'll learn enough about CSS
to be able to do away with them, but for now I need to get this one
document out by the beginning of next week and so I'll have to leave
that for a later date!

That said, I appreciate the pointer to some very good reasons to get
away from 4.01 Transitional as soon as possible!

Many thanks,

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Duncan Hill 

On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:05:40 +0100, Geoff Lane ge...@gjctech.co.uk wrote:


On Friday, September 24, 2010, 9:52:45 AM, Alan Gresley asked whether
the markup was OK for HTML 4.01 Strict.
---

Unfortunately not. I have to confess to being a naughty boy and using
deprecated attributes in the HTML! One day I'll learn enough about CSS
to be able to do away with them, but for now I need to get this one
document out by the beginning of next week and so I'll have to leave
that for a later date!

That said, I appreciate the pointer to some very good reasons to get
away from 4.01 Transitional as soon as possible!

Many thanks,

 Even a fully qualified transitional Doctype should trigger Standards Mode  
in IE


!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd;
and so give you the benefit of stability (predictability?) on your pages.


As you are adding the section numbers manually, Thierry's CSS example  
should work just as well on a ul where all you need to do is cancel the  
bullet default with

list-style-type: none;
I can't say it will improve semantics or give other benefits other than it  
might make your code easier to prepare and edit thanks to the separation  
from the li's.


Duncan
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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Geoff Lane 
On Friday, September 24, 2010, 11:15:57 AM, Duncan Hill wrote:

   Even a fully qualified transitional Doctype should trigger Standards Mode  
 in IE

 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
 http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd;
 and so give you the benefit of stability (predictability?) on your pages.
---

Thanks for that. I had (mistakenly) assumed that it wasn't necessary
to refer to the DTD explicitly and that each flavour of HTML was
fully defined.

BTW, switching my doctype declaration to 4.01 strict and then running
the page through W3C's validator jogged my memory as to why I've
stayed with the transitional standard: the target attribute of the
anchor tag is deprecated and my pages often have 'target=_blank' to
open content in a new window without resorting to JavaScript.

Thanks again,

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
 Thanks for that. I had (mistakenly) assumed that it wasn't necessary
 to refer to the DTD explicitly and that each flavour of HTML was
 fully defined.
 
 BTW, switching my doctype declaration to 4.01 strict and then running
 the page through W3C's validator jogged my memory as to why I've
 stayed with the transitional standard: the target attribute of the
 anchor tag is deprecated and my pages often have 'target=_blank' to
 open content in a new window without resorting to JavaScript.

Try !DOCTYPE html

PS: as Duncan suggested you can still use a OL if you simply remove the
markers from the list items (I'd missed that in my example). 


--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz

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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread David Hucklesby 

On 9/24/10 1:53 AM, Geoff Lane wrote:

On Thursday, September 23, 2010, 8:10:48 PM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:


 In theory you could do it with a combination of ::marker and CSS
counters.  In practice, nobody ever implemented ::marker.  And I
agree with the assertions made in the link from David H.'s post, that
you want the numbering in the HTML source instead of auto-generated
(at least for legal documents).   [...]

---

Thanks for your help, guys. I've cracked the layout provided that (as
David suggested) I hard-code the paragraph numbering. My solution
page paints rather than uses proper semantics, and so goes against
most of what's instinctive to me as a technical writer! The trick
seems to be to use paragraphs rather than proper lists so that the
automatic numbering doesn't appear.

Only two styles are used:
 span.num {
 float: left;
 margin-right: 1em;
 }
 span.text {
 display: block;
 overflow: hidden;
 zoom: 1;
 }

In the body:

   pspan class=num1./span
   span class=textBlah blah blahbr
 span class=num1.1/span
 span class=textBlah blah blah/span

[...]

That markup may be difficult for a screen reader to digest.
I'd stick with a list if I were you (and clobber the list
markers/numbers with list-style-type: none.)

Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Michael Geary 
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:36 AM, Geoff Lane ge...@gjctech.co.uk wrote:

 BTW, switching my doctype declaration to 4.01 strict and then running
 the page through W3C's validator jogged my memory as to why I've
 stayed with the transitional standard: the target attribute of the
 anchor tag is deprecated and my pages often have 'target=_blank' to
 open content in a new window without resorting to JavaScript.


I use this DOCTYPE to allow the target attribute in an otherwise strict
document:

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
[ !ATTLIST a target CDATA #IMPLIED ]


-Mike
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Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

2010-09-24 Thread Geoff Lane 
Multiple replies in one post:

On Friday, September 24, 2010, 6:42:54 PM, David Hucklesby wrote:

 That markup may be difficult for a screen reader to digest.
 I'd stick with a list if I were you (and clobber the list
 markers/numbers with list-style-type: none.)

Thanks. It's an internal document that I've now published to the
group. I may redo it if time permits, but I will remember to use the
list-style-type attribute to suppress native numbering for future
projects.

and at 7:25:04 PM, Michael Geary wrote:

 I use this DOCTYPE to allow the target attribute in an otherwise strict
 document:

 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
 -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
 http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
 [ !ATTLIST a target CDATA #IMPLIED ] 

I didn't know you could do that with HTML, so that's a bit of an
eye-opener for me!

Thanks both,

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] fixed background

2010-09-24 Thread Richard Grevers 
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Richard Grevers
richard.grev...@gmail.com wrote:
 Other than railing against the fact that you can only apply a fixed
 background relative to the viewport rather than a container, what can
 I do to position the *left* edge of a background image at 50% with a
 fluid layout?
 fudging it with 65% works for a narrow range of widths, but gaps
 start appearing as the screen gets too wide or too narrow.

I have solved this problem by appending an equal width of white to the
left-hand side of the image, so that when the image is centered, I see
the desired part of it.

-- 
Richard Grevers, New Plymouth, New Zealand
Dramatic Design www.dramatic.co.nz
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[css-d] Div background image in Chrome

2010-09-24 Thread K DeMott 
I'm cleaning up a small website an checking browser compatibility. Everything 
appears to line up correctly in IE 7 and 8, FF 3 and 4 and Opera 10.

drbrentchiropractor.com

In Chrome, the background image for the main content section (between the 
header and footer) is offset by one pixel to the right. I'm sure it's an 
obvious error but I'm just not seeing it. Any suggestions would be apprecaited!

KJ


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Re: [css-d] Div background image in Chrome

2010-09-24 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh 

On Sep 25, 2010, at 9:05 AM, K DeMott wrote:

 I'm cleaning up a small website an checking browser compatibility. Everything 
 appears to line up correctly in IE 7 and 8, FF 3 and 4 and Opera 10.
 
 drbrentchiropractor.com
 
 In Chrome, the background image for the main content section (between the 
 header and footer) is offset by one pixel to the right. I'm sure it's an 
 obvious error but I'm just not seeing it. Any suggestions would be 
 apprecaited!

If you make your #wrap 976px wide instead of 975px, then that visual offset 
disappears.

WebKit seems to disagree with other browsers on where exactly to hook up the 
background image for #header 
-http://drbrentchiropractor.com/image/header1smRnd.jpg- which happens to be 
976px wide.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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