Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Angela French wrote:
Thank you for all the opinions on this subject. I created a test
page with no applied CSS. It can be seen at:
http://checkoutacollege.com/testForeign.html . If you try it in
different browsers, you will see that in IE7 and Opera 9.62 (that's
all I've tested in so far), the last list item (Cambodian) is too
small to read. In FF 3.0.15 it is fine.
I had a look at your test case on Windows 7 with IE8/Opera10/
Firefox3.6b2/Safari4.04. Except for Safari, all those browsers (mostly
at their default configuration) display the Khmer language text very
small compared to the other strings of text. Out of curiosity, I
pasted that Khmer string in Notepad. It also displayed very small
compared to a string of Latin text. The font in use is DaunPenh,
installed by default on the OS. I can only conclude that that font has
a quite small aspect ratio (size) - 0.279 say my tools, compare that
to 0.448 for Times New Roman or 0.481 for Georgia.
I don't think the OS ships with other fonts for Khmer, although Win7
ships with a 'Khmer UI' font (I don't think it is suitable for body
text).
On OS X, there are no such differences. The only font I have that
displays Khmer glyphs ('KhmerOS') doesn't ship by default with the OS
- but it is the one that Cambodian people install/recommend. On Linux/
Ubuntu910, I currently don't have a font for Khmer (I need to get
around to finish my re-install).
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/
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Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
2009/11/17 Marc Hall m...@hallmarcwebsites.com: ... One caveat - The new version of Opera 10 for Windows (haven't tested Mac or Mini yet) shows a new addition to the userAgent string - Version. So if you print out the navigator.userAgent you will see both Opera/9.8 and Version/10.01. Not sure why they have done this and this helps drive home the point of NOT using browser detection. Isn't it ironic -- the detectors itself have caused it. It appears that a considerable amount of browser sniffing scripts are not quite ready for this change to double digits, as they detect only the first digit of the user agent string: in such a scenario, Opera 10 is interpreted as Opera 1. http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-ua-string-changes/ :) Ingo __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
On Nov 17, 2009, at 3:55 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
On Nov 17, 2009, at 3:14 AM, Angela French wrote:
I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I
have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in
different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a
conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to
target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and
how I might solve this? Thank you.
Hard to say, without a URL :-).
Does your font-stack include a font that contains glyphs for Cambodian
(Khmer, I suppose) ? If the answer is no, there may be the first and
most important issue. Each browsers may look up for a different font
on the OS.
Some kind soul pointed me to the URL (thanks ~dl).
http://checkoutacollege.com/LanguageTracks/Cambodian/Cambodian.aspx
from the stylesheet:
#inner-intro-container p.languages-intro-Cambodian {
color:#DD6000;
font-size:1.5em;
line-height:25px; /* -- this causes serious problems in Opera */
margin:0;
padding:10px 0 0 10px;
}
content.css (line 268)
and
#inner-intro-container p {
background-color:#EAD791;
clear:both;
font-family:Georgia,Times; /* -- no Khmer font specified...*/
width:70%;
}
On OS X, with the KhmerOS font installed I don't see any font-size
difference between various browsers (Safari, Gecko 1.9.0 ~ 1.9.6b),
Opera 10. There are quite a bit of difference in line-spacing though.
The line-height: 25px; causes serious issues in Opera. Safari and
Gecko don't agree either (I'm not sure who's correct). The font-size
62.5% set on bodyisn't helpful either.
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/
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Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
Thank you for all the opinions on this subject. I created a test page with no applied CSS. It can be seen at: http://checkoutacollege.com/testForeign.html . If you try it in different browsers, you will see that in IE7 and Opera 9.62 (that's all I've tested in so far), the last list item (Cambodian) is too small to read. In FF 3.0.15 it is fine. On Nov 17, 2009, at 3:14 AM, Angela French wrote: I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and how I might solve this? Thank you. Hard to say, without a URL :-). Does your font-stack include a font that contains glyphs for Cambodian (Khmer, I suppose) ? If the answer is no, there may be the first and most important issue. Each browsers may look up for a different font on the OS. Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
I just got into the preferences on Opera. Tools Preferences International Fonts (button). Here I have the ability to select which system font is used to display Khmer. If I switch it to Khmer OS, then the font rendering is comparable in size to what FF renders. Very interesting. IE has the same option. Of course, this is something I can't control on the users' end. Angela French Internet Specialist State Board for Community and Technical Colleges 360-704-4316 http://www.checkoutacollege.com Does your font-stack include a font that contains glyphs for Cambodian (Khmer, I suppose) ? If the answer is no, there may be the first and most important issue. Each browsers may look up for a different font on the OS. Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] conditional css for Opera?
I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and how I might solve this? Thank you. Angela French Internet Specialist State Board for Community and Technical Colleges 360-704-4316 http://www.checkoutacollege.comhttp://www.checkoutacollege.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
Angela French wrote: I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and how I might solve this? Thank you. A live example of your problem would help us figure out what's causing your problem. Without such an example we'll have to guess, and can only provide you with general information. 1: there is no really reliable way to target Opera. The other browsers OTOH, can be hacked/targeted quite reliable - for the time being at least. 2: Opera has 'minimum font size' set by default - the value varies slightly with what OS it's on, and if you run into that setting then there's nothing you can do from your end. regards Georg __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
Hi Angela,
I've never replied to any of these posts but am quite interested in
the questions that come up so bear with me.
What you describe reminds me of something I was taught in my CSS class
at UCLA this past August. My teacher instructed us to add this code to
our CSS page:
/* Simplified Meyer Reset
modified from http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/ */
html, body, div, span, object,
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, a, img, sup,
dl, dt, dd, ol, ul, li,
fieldset, form, label, legend {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
outline: 0;
font-size: 100%;
vertical-align: baseline;
background: transparent;
}
This way it clears all of the default settings of each browser to 0.
You can read more about it here:
http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/
Don't know if this will help but it's worth a try.
Regards,
Yolanda
On Nov 16, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Angela French wrote:
I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I
have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in
different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a
conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to
target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and
how I might solve this? Thank you.
Angela French
Internet Specialist
State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
http://www.checkoutacollege.comhttp://www.checkoutacollege.com/
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Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
And to try to make this a full answer; first I find it necessary to repeat the earlier warning, browser detection can be faulty: https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Browser_Detection_and_Cross_Browser_Support I don't think it can be stated enough, well written CSS that comes from well planned and standards compliant development standpoint can save you from needing browser detection. A lot of cross-browser issues can be remedied by finding the fault in the CSS that is causing it. Usually due to inheritance issues, *Gasp* developing from an IE point of view, and the final main bugger is the browser developers themselves. It is their product and as such they have the right to have it interpret HTML and CSS they way they see fit. Here are some good references for JavaScript based browser detection http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html#string http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2006/07/browser_detect.html One caveat - The new version of Opera 10 for Windows (haven't tested Mac or Mini yet) shows a new addition to the userAgent string - Version. So if you print out the navigator.userAgent you will see both Opera/9.8 and Version/10.01. Not sure why they have done this and this helps drive home the point of NOT using browser detection. You cannot know what developers might change or add and this can break your sites and cause you a lot of work down the road. Additional references here http://www.webreference.com/tools/browser/javascript.html http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com/brow.html (view source) Marc Hall HallMarc Websites 610.446.3346 www.HallMarcWebsites.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4613 (20091116) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
On Nov 17, 2009, at 3:14 AM, Angela French wrote: I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and how I might solve this? Thank you. Hard to say, without a URL :-). Does your font-stack include a font that contains glyphs for Cambodian (Khmer, I suppose) ? If the answer is no, there may be the first and most important issue. Each browsers may look up for a different font on the OS. Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
Angela French wrote: I have some foreign language text on my page (Cambodian) which I have rendered in html. Opera, IE, and FF all render the text in different sizes. I have tried em, pt, px, %. I can do a conditional style sheet to target IE, but I don't have a way to target Opera. Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Opera and how I might solve this? Thank you. Angela French Internet Specialist State Board for Community and Technical Colleges 360-704-4316 http://www.checkoutacollege.comhttp://www.checkoutacollege.com/ The only way to target Opera 9- or 10 is by using a xml prolog in your source before the doctype. http://css-class.com/test/bugs/opera/opera-tilde-selector-bug.htm This does cause IE6 (IE5 is always in quirks) to go into quirks mode, thus the box model is interpreted differently. http://css-class.com/test/css/box/box-model.htm And the changes needed. http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=E0989953B6F20B41 -- Alan http://css-class.com/ Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] conditional css for Opera?
Yolanda Aguirre wrote: Hi Angela, I've never replied to any of these posts but am quite interested in the questions that come up so bear with me. What you describe reminds me of something I was taught in my CSS class at UCLA this past August. My teacher instructed us to add this code to our CSS page: /* Simplified Meyer Reset modified from http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/ */ You can read more about it here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/ Don't know if this will help but it's worth a try. Regards, Yolanda In my opinion, that is uninformed teaching. University teachers may not be up to speed with the fact that all current versions of all rendering engines have the same CSS defaults. This includes IE8. http://css-class.com/test/css/defaults/UA-style-sheet-defaults.htm There is no need now to level the playing field. Also the IE7- hasLayout bugs a well documented and solutions are given. http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html or for hasLayout and collapsing margins. http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/haslayout-margins.htm -- Alan http://css-class.com/ Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
