-Caveat Lector-
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec18.html
Soldiering is for others
Taki
Gstaad
All Quiet on the Western Front was written in 1929 and became an instant best-seller; in Germany alone more than 3 million copies were sold within 18 months. Hollywood made a film of it the follo
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0307h.asp
Crossing the Rubicon
by Jacob G. Hornberger, July 11, 2003
Have you noticed how many Americans get upset over the comparisons that are increasingly being made between the United States and National Socialist Germany? After all, it’s not as
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.mediamonitors.net/index.html
The Hypocrisy of it All
by Joseph Clifford
The US "pre-emptively" attacked Iraq because we "think" Iraq might have Weapons of Mass Destruction. The US has threatened Iraq with the largest bomb (22,000) ever used in the history of the worl
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/midas.htmhttp://www.jewishtribalreview.org/midas.htm
MIDAS EARS
by Israel Shamir
A new spectre haunts America. It enters the well-protected boardrooms of newspapers and banks, shakes the deep foundations of its towers. It is the spectre of glas
http://www.gooff.com/NM/templates/Breaking_News.asp?articleid=230&zoneid=2
THOMAS JEFFERSON CALLING: The time for revolution is now
By John Kaminski
March 6, 2003
THOMAS JEFFERSON CALLING: The time for revolution is now
By John Kaminski, [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Watch for John Kaminski’s new bo
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=27804
Rumor Mill News Reading Room Forum
HOW MANY BODY BAGS DID THE BUSH WAR PARTY ORDER?
Posted By: GemstoneFileHistory
Date: Friday, 24 January 2003, 3:42 a.m.
We hear a lot about the 250,000 men who are being dragged aw
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20030109-78847680.htm
Crimes before the fact
Bob Barr
In last year's mega-hit movie "Minority Report," starring Tom Cruise in a mid-21st-century sci-fi thriller, D.C. police identify persons who have not yet committed a crime, but who, based on premonition ev
-Caveat Lector-
http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20021209/index.php
Permanent War State
by Charley Reese
The American republic died at Appomattox in 1865, replaced by a national government that has gradually evolved into an empire in a permanent state of war.
Most of us don't pay much attent
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.ssaa.org.au/canrego15.html
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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==
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-Caveat Lector-
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken68.html
Paul Revere, Terrorist
by Ryan McMaken
The word "terrorist" is quickly headed down the same road that "racist" traveled down years ago. That is, the word is quickly becoming an all-purpose insult for anyone that the person doing
-Caveat Lector-
What is the point of posting a 4 year old speech with no commentary?
on 7/9/02 7:01 AM, IGGY at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/clinton_no
> v_7_1998_radio.txt
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.c
-Caveat Lector-
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/clinton_nov_7_1998_radio.txt
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substanc
Hola,
In response to June:
I would beg to differ that I am representing personal opinion. I cite the work of Prof. Israel Finkelstein director of he Sonia and Marco Institute of Archeology at Tel Aviv University and Prof. Neil Silberman director of historical interpretation for the Ename Center
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=97&contentid=468
Tom Clancy: Disinformation Artist
by STEVEN AFTERGOOD (fas.org)
Tom Clancy's 1984 novel "The Hunt for Red October" was once the unlikely vehicle for a deliberate U.S. Navy disinformation effort targeted at the Soviet Union.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
ARE AMERICANS THE VICTIMS OF A HOAX?
The time has come to stop using the flag as a blindfold, to stop waving our guns and our gods at each other, to take a close look at the facts which have emerged from the attacks on the World Trade Towers and to recognize
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-tru
The problem removing the US civilian from the casualty of war
equation. With severe attacks against US civilians it might
be wise to adopt a new policy in the middle East.
Israel and the PLO are at war. I suggest moving Israel to the
United States. Thus Jews could worship as they want without
hara
-Caveat Lector-
A little more information on how our government treats its citizens. I've
been following this case for years, and the harrassment of the innocent only
becomes more egregious. Prudy
VIN SUPRYNOWICZ
MORE COLUMNS
Sunday, September 02, 2001
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
C
-Caveat Lector-
Take a look at page 10 of the 20 August issue of TIME. It seems that our
friends in Washington have done a "bait and switch." According to this
little item, the 2,000 acres the oil companies can drill don't have to be
contiguous, and only the area of the equipment touching the g
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-tru
Mobile phones may foil stealth bombers
By Robert Uhlig in London America's multi-billion-dollar stealth bombers
could be rendered obsolete by a British invention that uses existing mobile
telephone masts to detect and track aircraft that were previously invisible
to radar.
US stealth fighters
-Caveat Lector-
test
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many hal
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 03/23/2001 6:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< Adm. Dennis Blair, speaking to reporters in Seoul on Tuesday, also touted
the
U.S.-South Korean alliance as the major bulwark against North Korean
aggression.
"I would define North Ko
-Caveat Lector-
Demeaned and Victimized
Indians Say Sports Mascots, Ads Create Subhuman Image
By Dean Schabner
March 20 - Would you buy Martin Luther King Malt Liquor, go to the Mahatma
Gandhi Strip Club or wear Jesus Christ Jeans?
If any of these make you uncomfortable, you might have an
Want to send this story to another AOL member? Click on the heart at the top
of this window.
World's biggest oil rig tilts into sea after blast
By Luiz Andre Ferreira
MACAE, Brazil, March 16 (Reuters) - The world's biggest offshore oil rig,
owned by Brazil's state oil giant Petrobras, threate
-Caveat Lector-
Theres a lot of REALLY STUPID people out there, and a lot of them are Christians. A
friend was telling me just the other day that some years ago, her mother sold her
house and donated everything she owned to Oral Roberts in the US, then had to come and
live with them because sh
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 01/18/2001 9:51:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Oh god it's happening again! Gulp. Saba is right. Speeches and CNN don't
really pay enough to account for his being a multi millionaire.
Besides hanging out with guys who screw chicks
-Caveat Lector-
When I was young I put together a Ph.D for aF man who was a Professor at
Patterson State Teachers .now when he asked me if I would type it up
for him, little did I know what he wanted.
He had read my manuscript, was over 40, and just could not sit down long
enough to do anyth
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/19/01 2:38:36 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Recall, the court case and (substantiated) charge of plagarism
> regarding MLK's Doctoral dissertation?
>
> However he "earned" the degree, it does not seem to have been
> done so honestly
-Caveat Lector-
Recall, the court case and (substantiated) charge of plagarism
regarding MLK's Doctoral dissertation?
However he "earned" the degree, it does not seem to have been
done so honestly.
"Samantha L." wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/19/01 1:50:47 AM Central Stand
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/19/01 1:50:47 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> And while we are on
> the subject, can anybody tell me when and where MLK earned a
> doctorate degree?
http://www-lib.iupui.edu/libinfo/mlkjr.html#bio
Martin Luther King, Jr. earned his B
too kind to have chalked
this up to youthful indiscretion and should have watched
Jesse a little more closely throughout the years.
Amelia
- Original Message -
From: "Nurev Ind Research" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:57 PM
Su
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/18/01 7:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> Tell me, what does Jesse do for a living? Does he work?
William Shannon wrote:
>
>Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
Again...gasp...he makes a good wage giving speeches and al
In a message dated 1/18/01 7:23:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Tell me, what does Jesse do for a living? Does he work?
Again...gasp...he makes a good wage giving speeches and also pockets a check
doing his CNN show...jeeez!!! It's not as though we caught a Jimmy Swa
-Caveat Lector-
Jesse also wears four hundred dollar suits..and he could have been
tried for sedition and inciting to riot.this oh so rightheous
man.the National Enquirer nailed him good.
And there are people just waiting for Clinton to leave office, who will
no longer be afraid.
CAUGHT, NAILED or Hello
Jessee!
Heh heh
heh...
-Original Message-From: Conspiracy Theory Research
List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of William
ShannonSent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 7:14 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL] (no
In a message dated 1/18/01 6:09:55 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I guess the Rainbow Coalition pays him a good salary since he can afford to
pay $10,000 a month to support the child.
I'd guess his speaking engagements and his CNN show also contribute to his
bankroll...and I
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/18/01 3:36:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< "This is no time for evasions, denials or alibis. I fully accept
responsibility and I am truly sorry for my actions." >>
All politicians and public figures should be this forthcoming. Cl
-Caveat Lector-
Friday, 12 January, 2001, 15:17 GMT
The military get mightier
Is this the shape of GIs to come?
By BBC News Online's Mark Ward
The US military is planning to turn soldiers into supermen by fitting them
with powered exoskeletons.
The research arm of the US military is spendi
-Caveat Lector-
| top news | u.s. | world | business | sports | sci | tech |arts | weather |
election | search
DECEMBER 10, 12:01 EST
Dengue Fever Hits in Latin America
By WILL WEISSERT
Associated Press Writer
Dengue fever patient
Associated Press/Luis Romero [18K]
---
-Caveat Lector-
Site List:Tampa Bay OnlineThe Tampa TribuneWFLAWeather CenterHernando
TodayHighlands TodayFloridaInfo.com
N E W S
Breaking News
Florida
Wire Headlines
U.S.
Canada
World
Africa
Asia
Australia/ Antarctica
Europe
Central/South America
Middle East
--
X DRUDGE REPORT X SUN NOV 19, 2000 19:31:42 ET X
RELEASED: DEMOCRAT MEMO ON HOW TO DISQUALIFY MILITARY VOTES
**World Exclusive**
The DRUDGE REPORT has obtained -- and is now releasing worldwide -- a memo circulated to Democrats throughout Florida detailing how to disq
low graphics version | feedback | help
You are in: Sci/Tech
Front Page
World
UK
UK Politics
Business
Sci/Tech
Health
Education
Entertainment
Talking Point
In Depth
AudioVideo
The BBC's David Whitehouse
"A prehistoric planetarium on which man first charted the stars"
real 28k
Wedne
Oh, I forgot...it's all a left-wing lie...LMFAO!
Bill.
Federal report on global warming predicts widespread impact on U.S.
June 12, 2000
Web posted at: 6:54 a.m. EDT (1054 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Global warming will produce widespread changes in the
U.S. climate in future decades, a governmen
DELETE CTRL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its m
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/">
-Cui Bono?-
WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a prelude to war!
--
--
U.N.'s shaky foundation
By Alan Keyes
-
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/">
-Cui Bono?-
In a message dated 1/30/00 1:06:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Comments and questions are welcomed.
>
>Mick
>
Howdy in reviewing your site, I'll admitt to not understanding what you are
saying.
Are you saying that some "group" is using
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/">
-Cui Bono?-
Hello;
New to this list, here's my introduction:
Profession: Systems Analyst in administrative computer systems;
Artist, writer, naturalist;
Target of electro-assault technologies;
Reside in nation's capital area (Ottawa, Canada).
Research s
You see? There, I told you so and here it is
- right from the horse's mouth. Now I want all of you guys to take
back what you said And I quote, "Birden çok liste adresimiz
bulunmaktadir." Case closed!
Ýþçi Partisi wrote:
--
ISCI PARTISI Genel Merkezi
Mithatpasa Cad 10/8 Sihhiye, ANKARA
Te
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/">
-Cui Bono?-
Because of a temporary questions,
PLEASE
unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
With solidarity regards,
--
ISCI PARTISI Genel Merkezi
Mithatpasa Cad 10/8 Sihhiye, ANKARA
Tel: 90.312.435 29 99 Faks: 434 33 86
Web sayfasi: http://www.ip.org.tr E-p
-Caveat Lector-
MASSIVE DISINFO CAMPAIGN UNDERWAY RE: JAM ECHELON DAY
##
JAM ECHELON WEB SITE UP BUT STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
http://www.echelon.wiretapped.net/
CONTENTS
1. the original alert
2. the story as it originally appe
For some reason the attachment was corrupted. Try this one.
--David
P.S. sorry folks. The file is @ 70k. If it isn't, it aint the clean file.
Wilcher Report.txt
þ7
-Caveat Lector-
DELETE CTRL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdi
-Caveat Lector-
SIGN OFF CTRL
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and out
-Caveat Lector-
- Original Message -
From: Sno0wl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On 7 Sep 99, , Ric wrote:
> > From: Fred Saluga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > I have never been a victim of mind control, but I would be
> > > interested in information concerning your organization.
> >
> > What makes y
-Caveat Lector-
On 7 Sep 99, , Ric wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Fred Saluga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I have never been a victim of mind control, but I would be interested
> > in information concerning your organization.
>
> What makes you think this is an
-Caveat Lector-
David-good to have you aboard!
Try the "archives" The address is as
follows:http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
OR try this one: http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
These are both Web addresses.
These are also found on the bottom of any post from CTRL.
Good Luck! (mate)
JOHN
DECL
-Caveat Lector-
- Original Message -
From: Fred Saluga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have never been a victim of mind control, but I would be interested
> in information concerning your organization.
What makes you think this is an organization? Do we LOOK organized?
How do you know that you
-Caveat Lector-
Being new to CTRL I would appreciate any info on conspiracy theories from the U.K. particularly in relation to Northern Ireland (If there are any).
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are
-Caveat Lector-
Hi:
I have never been a victim of mind control, but I would be interested in
information concerning your organization.
Fred R. Saluga,
2731 BlairStone Road,
Apartment #77,
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational
-Caveat Lector-
Judith
Good idea!
The only mind control case I know right now is the Lambros case. But
Lambros is in Leavenworth and very difficult to deal with. I ran across
another many years ago- Diana de le Vega...a CIA vicitm.
This is only mind control ? We need "Government vi
-Caveat Lector-
Listers:
Many people on these lists have witnessed with me continuing and ongoing
mind control abuse of (innocent) individuals throughout the U.S. -- esp.
those targeted with implants and being used in black projects. I am seeking
to include in a Board of Trustee's, involv
-Caveat Lector-
Subj: Citing Strengthened Economy, Brazil Central Bank Will...
Date: 8/10/99 3:15:32 PM Central Daylight Time
From: AOL News
BCC:Ahab42
Citing Strengthened Economy, Brazil Central Bank Will End Formal Request That
Banks Maintain Trade & Interbank Lines
NEW YORK--
-Caveat Lector-
In case you are interested, the below, is a false report and
also inacurate about who owns the fed.
Joshua2
--
"Ronald L. Wilson." wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Subj: "Federal Reserve System"
> Date: 6/9/99 4:07:33 PM EST
> From: Ww2vet2
> T
-Caveat Lector-
Subj: "Federal Reserve System"
Date: 6/9/99 4:07:33 PM EST
From: Ww2vet2
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Someone sent me this "brief history of the Federal Reserve System"
I pass it on for your information.
Amendment 16 (income tax) was passed by Congress in 1913.
During this
-Caveat Lector-
1. CONGRESS COULD CUT AMERICAN'S FEDERAL TAXES BY 95%.
2. MAINTAIN THE CURRENT NATIONAL INCOME STREAM
3. ELIMINATE THE IRS, PERSONAL AND BUSINESS FEDERAL TAX
RETURNS, RECORD KEEPING, BUSINESS DEPRECIATION
4. ELIMINATE FEDERAL INHERITANCE TAXES
5.REDUCE THE CRUSHING IMPACT O
-Caveat Lector-
SCAN CTRL @aol.com
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
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-Caveat Lector-
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds i
-Caveat Lector-
SCAN CTRL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdire
-Caveat Lector-
Top Mexican Off-Limits to U.S. Drug Agents
By TIM GOLDEN
WASHINGTON -- Early last year, as undercover U.S. Customs agents neared the
end of the biggest investigation ever conducted into the illegal movement of
drug money, bankers working with Mexico's most powerful cocaine c
-Caveat Lector-
BBC News Online: Business: The Economy
Front Page | World | UK | UK Politics | Business | Sci/Tech | Health |
Education | Sport | Entertainment | Talking Point | High Graphics | Feedback |
Help | Noticias
-Caveat Lector-
FCC to Examine Internet Pricing Issues
by Sari Kalin, IDG News Service
(December 30, 1996) -- The U.S. Federal Communications Commission wants to
let Internet service providers off the hook for now. The agency tentatively
recommended that ISPs not pay current interstate acces
Test
PROJEC~1.ZIP
-Caveat Lector-
June
The way you came across on this list, came across as being cranky. As you
VERY well know on AOL, hit the reply button and if there is NO SUBJECT line,
well, the rest is history. I WAS replying to another's post, so maybe it
should be brought up to the whole list to put som
-Caveat Lector-
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>June
>If it doesn't make sense to you, than ignore it. So what's the big deal,
>anyway. Just delete, your choice!
>
>Lynnesomething that doesn't make sense to them>
Not 'bent out of shape', just curious about what you were going on
-Caveat Lector-
June
If it doesn't make sense to you, than ignore it. So what's the big deal,
anyway. Just delete, your choice!
Lynne
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapb
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>(For the rest of the list, THIS New England Yankee has NO idea what Lynne
>is babbling about.)
>
>
>June
... mmm, says a lot.
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagand
-Caveat Lector-
On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Lilke it, I like it !!
>For once can say, no way ! hehehe ! Okay, so I'm a rebel at heart
>but then spent (lived) in Maine too long. Suits the downeast Yankee part of
>it
>Go for the gusto
Uhhh...care to elucidate?
-Caveat Lector-
Lilke it, I like it !!
For once can say, no way ! hehehe ! Okay, so I'm a rebel at heart
but then spent (lived) in Maine too long. Suits the downeast Yankee part of
it
Go for the gusto
Lynne
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informa
From: Ben Masel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Date: 09 Jun 93 16:58 PDT
Subject: 4th Amendment Card
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
During the 6 mos last summer and fall during which i could not get
my tailight to stay fixed i was pulled over a total of 14 times,
asked fo
-Caveat Lector-
Click here: A:\disgrace.htm
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdir
Title: TV Alters Brainwaves (!)
TV Alters Brainwaves (!)
From: Michael Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Kill Ugly Television (fwd)
Edinburgh; AK Press, 1994
ISBN 1873176910 (pbk);
Orders in the UK to
AK Press 22 Lutton Place, Edinburgh EH* 9PE, Scotland, UK
3.95 pounds + 10% handling
O
Title: Index of /a-albionic/gopher/conspiracy/conspnation
Index of /a-albionic/gopher/conspiracy/conspnation
Name Last modified Size Description
Parent Directory 14-May-96 05:44 -
000Telnet.consp.nation 07-Jul-95 03:13 1k
AIDS 20-
NAMEBASE (formerly SPYBASE) NOW LEGALLY AVAILABLE FROM A-ALBIONIC RESEARCH!
^^^
Namebase contains over 80,000 KEY ruling class/conspiracy groups and
individuals with 173,000 citations in over 500 books and 1000's of pages
o
-Caveat Lector-
Did anyone notice that the "civil rights" settlement was gained once the
Nose job had healed?>>
Oh yes. She's looking much better these days, and I think she even thinks
some of the money will thee for her. Well, whoever was paying and paving the
way before will probably make
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