Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gravity is "just a theory". You can observe gravity. oh, really? Where is it? I can't see it! Anyone who thinks that gravity is "just a theory" is invited to jump from a 10th floor window and refute it. Well, I was referring to the alleged gravitational effects of remote astronomical bodies. "BStokes45" can observe them but cannot observe effects of evolution. I feel they are equally unobservable to the layman. et tu, Ric? If remote astronomical bodies had no gravitational effects then nobody would be able to predict eclipses with any precision. Anyone disbelieving in the gravitational effects of remote astronomical bodies is welcome to pray to the sky deities during the next eclipse. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 99-08-13 17:15:07 EDT, you write:
Not to pick at nits, but there is no "...monkey theory..." If you're
going to argue, at least argue with what your opponent has proposed, not
with something they have not. The theory is that, in a genetic sense,
homo sapiens descended from apes, not monkeys.
Apes - monkeys, same thing. Why is it that the people who support this
theory can necer explain why there are still "apes" as well as humans?
The theory doesn't purport to explain that. No one knows the answer to
that question. The theory is not perfect, and has never been presented as
being perfect. Furthermore, there is more and more evidence to suggest
that the "Big Bang" theory is NOT correct. This is science in action. A
"theory" is always being tested. So long as it best explains the observed
evidence, it remains viable. When it fails, it is discarded or reworked.
That is my point, evolution is only a theory, not fact, same as
creationism, so why not present both theories and let the student use his/her
mind and decide for themselves rather than be brainwashed by lack of
"scientific" evidence. Calling a theory "scientific evidence" is
disinformation ... it is not viable, it is not "observed evidence." How can
one observe evolution?
Evolution is taught because it is a viable theory, which best explains
the currently available evidence. Many people who teach and accept the
THEORY of evolution believe very deeply in a god.
I accept evolution as the best explanation. I personally hate and
despise guns, but fully support the 2nd Amendment (and will, until such
time as a legally constituted Consitutional Convention repeals it). So
much for your theory of social-naziism.
Evolution was made up as a theory because the scientists had no
explaination as to how everything came into existence, they just pulled it
out of their ass. Exactly how is my theory of social-nazism worthless?
Cannot you see that Fascism is slowly being forced down our throats under the
socialist guise of helping people {homeless (bums)}, being caring, saving the
environment {wetlands (swamps), rain forests (jungles)}. Should the second
amendment be repealed, it will be the end of the United States, this will
probably happen since the second amendment has been modified severely
already. This amendment was not put in the Constitution to guarantee a
person's right to hunt as Clinton espouses, nor was it put in the
Constitution merely to provide for protecting yourself, your family and
property from criminals. It was provided for in the Constitution to protect
you ... to guarantee your right to protect yourself from the tyranny of
government.
No, scientists want everyone to learn and understand the theory as
being the best explanation we currently have. No responsible scientists
teaches evolution as a "fact."
Scientists present their theory of evolution as the only theory,
therefore making it a fact until they pull another theory out of their ass.
There are no facts to back up their hypothesis.
Creationists, on the otherhand, not only teach their theories as
"fact," they teach them as absolute, immutable "truth," with no evidence
whatever to support them.
Evolution and Creationism are the same, neither can be proven. Scientists
and religious people both put their "faith" in ideals that have no backing.
Scientists are much like religious people, they accept their evolution theory
on faith, nothing else.
Because public schools are funded with public monies, and we have a
mandated separation of church and state. With as many different religions
as are practiced in this nation, and as many different means of "prayer,"
there is no practicable way to permit prayer in public schools.
The "State" has no business to be in the education business in the first
place.
the killing of another human being is allowed (abortion),
What has this to do with it? Many scientists are opposed to abortion,
and many people who believe in god(s) support freedom of choice.
Scientists are backed by the State, they espouse that humans are merely
animals, which may be true. Scientists are backed by the State through
grants of billions of dollars, religion does not receive billions of dollars
from the State, maybe we need separation of State and science.
last time I looked, homosexuals were human beings, who, according to
our basis of government, are "...endowed with certain inalienable
rights..." just like you.
Yes, homosexuals should be allowed to live as they please, to enjoy
their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but they should
not be given special favors from government, and government should not
champion their cause by teaching it in scools, again government should not be
involved in education.
Excuse please? Kindly show us any evidence that our government, at ANY
level, protects
Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Bruce Mcneely [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seriously, evolution cannot be proven, the Bible thumper theory cannot be proven ... why not teach both and let the student decide which one he/she believes, or is there a third theory on the origin of humans ... There is one small problem with this idea - the evidence. I say teach evolution and special creation in proportion to their respective supporting evidence. The time alloted for special creation should be about one nanosecond. Supporters of theocracy, having lost the intellectual debate over creationism vs. evolution, exploit the political system in their attempt to promulgate their views and wrest power from rational folk. Of course, science needn't 'prove' anything - science deals with parsimonious workable explanations, not proof - but theocratic/ creationist demagogues frame their arguments in terms of 'proof', and misconstrue the meaning of 'theory', and engage in any other sophistry sufficient to manipulate political bodies. The struggle isn't about proof, evidence, fairness - it's about power, nothing else. Cretinists are in a can't-win position, since their 'success' in controlling a region's school system will translate into the marginalization of graduates of those schools when they emerge into the real world of higher education and meaningful employment. Like Marxism, cretinism can't survive contact with reality-based systems, but thrives only in isolation, behind ideological walls. Yow. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 08/13/1999 10:28:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seriously, evolution cannot be proven, the Bible thumper theory cannot be proven ... why not teach both and let the student decide which one he/she believes, or is there a third theory on the origin of humans A good idea indeed, and wouldn't it be a hoot if one day it was discovered that niether evolution of the scene set forth in the Bible were right? I'm beginning to lean to Sitchin myself. Of course that would cover both evolution and the Bible. I guess we'll just have to accept as positive that someone, somewhere is talking about something they can't see, touch or buy. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-08-13 13:12:38 EDT, you write: Supporters of theocracy, having lost the intellectual debate over creationism vs. evolution, exploit the political system in their attempt to promulgate their views and wrest power from rational folk. I am not a believer of a God, nor do I believe that my ancestors were monkeys, maybe yours were, but not mine. So, you think that science wins by default, that their monkey theory is any better than the God created it all theory? I think not. If the scientific theory is correct, how do you explain how that first ameoba was created to produce the universe, and if the "big bang" theory is correct, where did the material from the big bang come from? Evolution is taught in schools because the socialist-nazi types are in control and they do not want anyone to believe in an authority that is more powerful than themselves ... they see this as a barrier to having complete control, guns are also a barrier to control. Of course, science needn't 'prove' anything - science deals with parsimonious workable explanations, not proof - but theocratic/ creationist demagogues frame their arguments in terms of 'proof', and misconstrue the meaning of 'theory', and engage in any other sophistry sufficient to manipulate political bodies. Seems to me you have this a little backwards. The scientific types want everyone to accept their theory as fact, when, in reality, it is no more fact than creationism. If as you say the "creationist demagogues" are engaging in sophisticated disinformation to sway the beliefs of political bodies, then why is it that prayers are not allowed in schools, the killing of another human being is allowed (abortion), and they (government) champions the "rights" of homosexuals, pedofiles and the "rights" of convicted criminals rather than the lack of rights of their victims? Seems to me the "Scientists" gain ground on a regular basis through the use of force and massive disinformation, for they are in control. The struggle isn't about proof, evidence, fairness - it's about power, nothing else. Cretinists are in a can't-win position, since their 'success' in controlling a region's school system will translate into the marginalization of graduates of those schools when they emerge into the real world of higher education and meaningful employment. Cretinists? You, who espouses the "implant theory?" Contol ... Hmmm! Interesting that when one State is allowed to vary their school subjects, then they are controlling ... what of the other 49 States who control a subject opposite to the one State ... just who do you think is doing the controlling? It is maginalization to teach that our ancestors were not monkeys? You could be correct, seems to me that most officials in government (their intelligence anyway) resemble monkeys rather than man. Does this mean if you are a Christian, Moslem, Jew, Buddist, etc. that you cannot obtain meaningful employment or higher education? This is highly unusual to have a serious discussion on the sceptichats list rather than jokes about implants. Didn't mean to rant a little, but a had a few minutes to spare before work. Bob Stokes Like Marxism, cretinism can't survive contact with reality-based systems, but thrives only in isolation, behind ideological walls. Yow. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [SC] Re: Kansas Board of Education vote on Evolution
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 99-08-13 13:12:38 EDT, you write: Supporters of theocracy, having lost the intellectual debate over creationism vs. evolution, exploit the political system in their attempt to promulgate their views and wrest power from rational folk. I am not a believer of a God, nor do I believe that my ancestors were monkeys, maybe yours were, but not mine. So, you think that science wins by default, that their monkey theory is any better than the God created it all theory? I think not. Not to pick at nits, but there is no "...monkey theory..." If you're going to argue, at least argue with what your opponent has proposed, not with something they have not. The theory is that, in a genetic sense, homo sapiens descended from apes, not monkeys. If the scientific theory is correct, how do you explain how that first ameoba was created to produce the universe, and if the "big bang" theory is correct, where did the material from the big bang come from? The theory doesn't purport to explain that. No one knows the answer to that question. The theory is not perfect, and has never been presented as being perfect. Furthermore, there is more and more evidence to suggest that the "Big Bang" theory is NOT correct. This is science in action. A "theory" is always being tested. So long as it best explains the observed evidence, it remains viable. When it fails, it is discarded or reworked. Evolution is taught in schools because the socialist-nazi types are in control and they do not want anyone to believe in an authority that is more powerful than themselves ... they see this as a barrier to having complete control, guns are also a barrier to control. Evolution is taught because it is a viable theory, which best explains the currently available evidence. Many people who teach and accept the THEORY of evolution believe very deeply in a god. I accept evolution as the best explanation. I personally hate and despise guns, but fully support the 2nd Amendment (and will, until such time as a legally constituted Consitutional Convention repeals it). So much for your theory of social-naziism. Of course, science needn't 'prove' anything - science deals with parsimonious workable explanations, not proof - but theocratic/ creationist demagogues frame their arguments in terms of 'proof', and misconstrue the meaning of 'theory', and engage in any other sophistry sufficient to manipulate political bodies. Seems to me you have this a little backwards. The scientific types want everyone to accept their theory as fact, when, in reality, it is no more fact than creationism. No, scientists want everyone to learn and understand the theory as being the best explanation we currently have. No responsible scientists teaches evolution as a "fact." Creationists, on the otherhand, not only teach their theories as "fact," they teach them as absolute, immutable "truth," with no evidence whatever to support them. If as you say the "creationist demagogues" are engaging in sophisticated disinformation to sway the beliefs of political bodies,then why is it that prayers are not allowed in schools, Because public schools are funded with public monies, and we have a mandated separation of church and state. With as many different religions as are practiced in this nation, and as many different means of "prayer," there is no practicable way to permit prayer in public schools. the killing of another human being is allowed (abortion), What has this to do with it? Many scientists are opposed to abortion, and many people who believe in god(s) support freedom of choice. and they (government) champions the "rights" of homosexuals, last time I looked, homosexuals were human beings, who, according to our basis of government, are "...endowed with certain inalienable rights..." just like you. pedofiles Excuse please? Kindly show us any evidence that our government, at ANY level, protects pedophiles in the practice of their perversions. Like all other human beings, they are, of course, "...endowed with certain inalienable rights..." just like you. and the "rights" of convicted criminals Again, as human beings, they are "...endowed with certain inalieanable rights..." just like you. rather than the lack of rights of their victims? What rights of "victims" has the government violated? What *ARE* "victim's rights?" Does a dead person have a "right" to have the goverment commit murder in their name by executing their alleged killer? Are these alleged killers not human beings? Why are you so concerned about abortions, but not about the murder of alleged perpetrators? Seems to me the "Scientists" gain ground on a regular basis through the use of force and massive disinformation, for they are in
