Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-08, Charles Wilson cyg...@cwilson.fastmail.fm wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: I mean the packages that are installed by default when you run setup.exe for the first time and don't select any additional packages. Maybe that set of packages is called something else? We usually call that the Base installation, as those packages are in the Base category. Thanks. Sorry for my confusing terminology. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Where's SANDY DUNCAN? at visi.com -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. To that end I've been searching the mailing list archive. So far the scripts wirtten by Vin Shelton look like they're awfully close to what I want. http://www.Cygwin.com/ml/Cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html The only thing that (AFAICT) is missing is the inclusion of the source packages for the binary packages on the CD. I think I can figure out enough zsh to do that. Before I have a go at it, is there something else I ought to be using instead? [*] Why, you ask, do I need a CD? Because we're distributing a bunch of tools along with the Cygwin snapshot. If we distribute just the tools along with instructions on installing a current Cygwin, then we'll have to worry about constantly updating the tools as updates to Cygwin cause them to stop working. We've got a half-way decent chance of supporting a static snapshot of Cygwin+tools, but supporting the tools on top of a constantly changing Cygwin base would require more resources than we have available. Even distributing the source code to the tools along with a build script doesn't work, because future versions of Cygwin will undoubtedly stop being able to compile the tools. For example, the previous version of the tool binaries won't run on current Cygwin install. The previous version of tools won't build on a current Cygwin install either. FWIW, the component of the tools that causes the most problems is gcc -- Cygwin stopped being able to build gcc/g++ 3.2.1 sometime in 2005. The next version of the tools will use gcc/g++ 3.4.3. That version can be built on current Cygwin (as of yesterday at some point in mid-morning GMT-6), but there's no guarantee that will be true tomorrow or that the binaries built today will run on tomorrow's current Cygwin. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! ! Now I understand at advanced MICROBIOLOGY and visi.comth' new TAX REFORM laws!! -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
Grant Edwards wrote: I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. To that end I've been searching the mailing list archive. So far the scripts wirtten by Vin Shelton look like they're awfully close to what I want. http://www.Cygwin.com/ml/Cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html This link goes nowhere for me. The only thing that (AFAICT) is missing is the inclusion of the source packages for the binary packages on the CD. I think I can figure out enough zsh to do that. Before I have a go at it, is there something else I ought to be using instead? [*] Why, you ask, do I need a CD? Because we're distributing a bunch of tools along with the Cygwin snapshot. If we distribute just the tools along with instructions on installing a current Cygwin, then we'll have to worry about constantly updating the tools as updates to Cygwin cause them to stop working. We've got a half-way decent chance of supporting a static snapshot of Cygwin+tools, but supporting the tools on top of a constantly changing Cygwin base would require more resources than we have available. Even distributing the source code to the tools along with a build script doesn't work, because future versions of Cygwin will undoubtedly stop being able to compile the tools. For example, the previous version of the tool binaries won't run on current Cygwin install. The previous version of tools won't build on a current Cygwin install either. FWIW, the component of the tools that causes the most problems is gcc -- Cygwin stopped being able to build gcc/g++ 3.2.1 sometime in 2005. The next version of the tools will use gcc/g++ 3.4.3. That version can be built on current Cygwin (as of yesterday at some point in mid-morning GMT-6), but there's no guarantee that will be true tomorrow or that the binaries built today will run on tomorrow's current Cygwin. The Cygwin DLL is meant to be backward compatible through the 1.5 series. There will, of course, be a difference moving from 1.5 to 1.7. After that, later 1.7 releases will be compatible with earlier ones. And by compatible, I mean binary compatible. No rebuild necessary. If you find this is not the case with 1.7, then that would be good to report. Since 1.5 is a dead end, it doesn't make allot of sense to report these kinds of problems for it. Of course, as you note, other packages aren't necessarily compatible through all their versions or even their minor version bumps. If you need to support a particular set of Cygwin tools, it can make sense to lock the set you're working with. Of course, you'll still need to contend with users that already may have Cygwin installed and the version conflicts there. And, as you noted, you need to distribute the source of your application along with that for the Cygwin DLL and the tools you're distributing to comply with the GPL, but I expect you already know this. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 _ A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:31:21PM +, Grant Edwards wrote: I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. It's probably not what you want, and it is still a work in progress, but I've been generating downloadable Cygwin ISOs at my own site for a few months now. It's still a work in progress but ISOs are available here: http://cygwinsolutions.com/ I generate two ISOs - one for source, one for binary. For instance here is a binary ISO: http://updates.cygwinsolutions.com/20090107-11/cygwin-20090107-11-bin.iso and here is a source ISO: http://updates.cygwinsolutions.com/20090107-11/cygwin-20090107-11-src.iso You don't have to provide the source code along with the binary. You just have to be willing to provide the source code to anyone who asks for it. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-07, Larry Hall (Cygwin) reply-to-list-only...@cygwin.com wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. To that end I've been searching the mailing list archive. So far the scripts wirtten by Vin Shelton look like they're awfully close to what I want. http://www.Cygwin.com/ml/Cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html This link goes nowhere for me. Doh! My spell-checker capitalized Cygwin. It should be http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html The Cygwin DLL is meant to be backward compatible through the 1.5 series. There will, of course, be a difference moving from 1.5 to 1.7. After that, later 1.7 releases will be compatible with earlier ones. And by compatible, I mean binary compatible. No rebuild necessary. If you find this is not the case with 1.7, then that would be good to report. Since 1.5 is a dead end, it doesn't make allot of sense to report these kinds of problems for it. Of course, as you note, other packages aren't necessarily compatible through all their versions or even their minor version bumps. If you need to support a particular set of Cygwin tools, it can make sense to lock the set you're working with. Of course, you'll still need to contend with users that already may have Cygwin installed and the version conflicts there. Users who already have Cygwin installed are probably savvy enough to build the tools from sources. If that doesn't work then they're out of luck, and should just do things right and install Linux. And, as you noted, you need to distribute the source of your application I don't see what my application has to do with anything. Just because I compile an application with gcc, that doesn't place the application under the GPL. along with that for the Cygwin DLL and the tools you're distributing to comply with the GPL, but I expect you already know this. I'm aware that we'll need to distribute sources for Cygwin and the other GPL'ed tools we're distributing. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm wet! I'm wild! at visi.com -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-07, Christopher Faylor cgf-use-the-mailinglist-ple...@cygwin.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:31:21PM +, Grant Edwards wrote: I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. It's probably not what you want, and it is still a work in progress, but I've been generating downloadable Cygwin ISOs at my own site for a few months now. It's still a work in progress but ISOs are available here: http://cygwinsolutions.com/ Thanks. I'll take a look. I generate two ISOs - one for source, one for binary. For instance here is a binary ISO: http://updates.cygwinsolutions.com/20090107-11/cygwin-20090107-11-bin.iso and here is a source ISO: http://updates.cygwinsolutions.com/20090107-11/cygwin-20090107-11-src.iso You don't have to provide the source code along with the binary. You just have to be willing to provide the source code to anyone who asks for it. One of the things I liked about Vin Shelton's script was that it allowed me to customize what was installed by default. I need to add 5-6 packages to the default install. I'd really like to keep it to 1 CD if at all possible. I was under the impression that the default packages (and sources) should fit on a single CD. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! RHAPSODY in Glue! at visi.com -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2009-01-07, Larry Hall (Cygwin) reply-to-list-only-lh AT cygwin DOT com wrote: ^ http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR Thanks. Grant Edwards wrote: I need to put a Cygwin snapshot on CD[*]. To that end I've been searching the mailing list archive. So far the scripts wirtten by Vin Shelton look like they're awfully close to what I want. http://www.Cygwin.com/ml/Cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html This link goes nowhere for me. Doh! My spell-checker capitalized Cygwin. It should be http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2007-03/msg00606.html Got it. Looks OK. The Cygwin DLL is meant to be backward compatible through the 1.5 series. There will, of course, be a difference moving from 1.5 to 1.7. After that, later 1.7 releases will be compatible with earlier ones. And by compatible, I mean binary compatible. No rebuild necessary. If you find this is not the case with 1.7, then that would be good to report. Since 1.5 is a dead end, it doesn't make allot of sense to report these kinds of problems for it. Of course, as you note, other packages aren't necessarily compatible through all their versions or even their minor version bumps. If you need to support a particular set of Cygwin tools, it can make sense to lock the set you're working with. Of course, you'll still need to contend with users that already may have Cygwin installed and the version conflicts there. Users who already have Cygwin installed are probably savvy enough to build the tools from sources. If that doesn't work then they're out of luck, and should just do things right and install Linux. And, as you noted, you need to distribute the source of your application I don't see what my application has to do with anything. Just because I compile an application with gcc, that doesn't place the application under the GPL. OK, I missed that part then. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 _ A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 12:23:16AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2009-01-07, Larry Hall (Cygwin) reply-to-list-only...@cygwin.com wrote: And, as you noted, you need to distribute the source of your application I don't see what my application has to do with anything. Just because I compile an application with gcc, that doesn't place the application under the GPL. If the application is linked with Cygwin it is GPLed. along with that for the Cygwin DLL and the tools you're distributing to comply with the GPL, but I expect you already know this. I'm aware that we'll need to distribute sources for Cygwin and the other GPL'ed tools we're distributing. If you distribute a cygwin-based binary then you need to make the source code of the binary available as per the terms of the GPL since the Cygwin DLL is licensed under the GPL. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 12:25:59AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: One of the things I liked about Vin Shelton's script was that it allowed me to customize what was installed by default. I need to add 5-6 packages to the default install. I'd really like to keep it to 1 CD if at all possible. I was under the impression that the default packages (and sources) should fit on a single CD. That depends on what you mean by default. The whole distribution just barely fits on one CD - if everything is recompressed with lzma. So it is likely that you would be able to put a sizeable subset of the distribution + sources on the CD - as long as you don't need, say, the xorg packages. In this case, I doubt that the ISO images I'm creating are going to be much use to you though. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 09:18:11PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 12:25:59AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: One of the things I liked about Vin Shelton's script was that it allowed me to customize what was installed by default. I need to add 5-6 packages to the default install. I'd really like to keep it to 1 CD if at all possible. I was under the impression that the default packages (and sources) should fit on a single CD. That depends on what you mean by default. The whole distribution just binary barely fits on one CD - if everything is recompressed with lzma. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-08, Christopher Faylor cgf-use-the-mailinglist-ple...@cygwin.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 12:23:16AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2009-01-07, Larry Hall (Cygwin) reply-to-list-only...@cygwin.com wrote: And, as you noted, you need to distribute the source of your application I don't see what my application has to do with anything. Just because I compile an application with gcc, that doesn't place the application under the GPL. If the application is linked with Cygwin it is GPLed. It isn't linked with Cygwin. I'm aware that we'll need to distribute sources for Cygwin and the other GPL'ed tools we're distributing. If you distribute a cygwin-based binary The only cygwin-based binaries I'm distributing are the Cygwin binary packages and tools such as gcc and binutils for which source will be provided. then you need to make the source code of the binary available as per the terms of the GPL since the Cygwin DLL is licensed under the GPL. Right, but my application isn't linked with Cygwin. -- Grant -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-08, Christopher Faylor cgf-use-the-mailinglist-ple...@cygwin.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 12:25:59AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: One of the things I liked about Vin Shelton's script was that it allowed me to customize what was installed by default. I need to add 5-6 packages to the default install. I'd really like to keep it to 1 CD if at all possible. I was under the impression that the default packages (and sources) should fit on a single CD. That depends on what you mean by default. I mean the packages that are installed by default when you run setup.exe for the first time and don't select any additional packages. Maybe that set of packages is called something else? The whole distribution just barely fits on one CD - if everything is recompressed with lzma. So it is likely that you would be able to put a sizeable subset of the distribution + sources on the CD - as long as you don't need, say, the xorg packages. Nope, I don't need Xorg. All I need is the default install plus gcc, tcltk, make, sharutils, and wget. Just for grins I might also throw in nano or vim. In this case, I doubt that the ISO images I'm creating are going to be much use to you though. -- Grant -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
On 2009-01-08, Grant Edwards gra...@visi.com wrote: I didn't think it was relevent to the question at hand, but to try to short-circuit yet another endless, pointless discussion of the GPL, I'll explain exactly what the CD is for. What I'm putting together is a CD with a very basic Cygwin installation plus a cross-compiler toolchain comprising gcc/g++, newlib, binutils, gdb, and insight. The purpose is to allow somebody to develop firmware for an embedded microprocessor. Source code for the cross toolchain will be included. The CD will also contain Linux-hosted cross-toolchain binaries. Also included will be some sample source code for the target device and libraries (with sources) for the target device. The libraries contain neither Cygwin nor any other GPL'ed code. There will also be some source code for a Python utility that can be used to talk to the target device and download new binaries that are built with the cross toolchain. All right? -- Grant -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Pointers on Making a Cygwin CD (including source)?
Grant Edwards wrote: I mean the packages that are installed by default when you run setup.exe for the first time and don't select any additional packages. Maybe that set of packages is called something else? We usually call that the Base installation, as those packages are in the Base category. -- Chuck -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
