Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On 2020-05-11 12:53 pm, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: I would just like to chime in that it would be a crying shame if Cygwin were to ever drop support for Windows 7. There are many people, myself one, who are dead set against Windows 10. "Ever"?!? You do realize that, ESU aside, Windows 7 is out of support and therefore should be assumed to be vulnerable? I suspect that something one day will make it untenable but Windows 7 is no less secure or more vulnerable than it was a year ago. All software should always be assumed to be always vulnerable. Is 10 secure on patching day but then vulnerable until the next patch day? The number of vulns in any software is fixed on the day it ships and it's whittled down as patches come out. 7 has had a heck of a lot of security fixes. It's new software that increases security holes. I have to use 10 at work and it is a ghastly operating system. Thanks. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On Mon, 2020-05-11 at 10:55 -0400, Chris Wagner wrote: > On 2020-05-05 5:05 am, Rainer Emrich wrote: > > Am 05.05.2020 um 10:54 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: > > > Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these > > > Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. > > > > > > Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't > > > drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. > > > > > > Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned > > > out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific > > > workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I > > > didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 > > > running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while > > > longer. > > I would expect support for Windows 7 as long as the Micsrosoft ESU > > program is active. We don't work for Microsoft, so as an independent project, we'll support Windows 7 only as long as we feel is viable and valuable. As Corinna said, for now that's the case, but nobody here is guaranteeing anything beyond that. > I would just like to chime in that it would be a crying shame if Cygwin > were to ever drop support for Windows 7. There are many people, myself > one, who are dead set against Windows 10. "Ever"?!? You do realize that, ESU aside, Windows 7 is out of support and therefore should be assumed to be vulnerable? -- Yaakov -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On 2020-05-05 5:05 am, Rainer Emrich wrote: Hi Corinna, Am 05.05.2020 um 10:54 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while longer. I would expect support for Windows 7 as long as the Micsrosoft ESU program is active. I would just like to chime in that it would be a crying shame if Cygwin were to ever drop support for Windows 7. There are many people, myself one, who are dead set against Windows 10. Thanks. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On May 7 20:33, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > On Tue, 2020-05-05 at 10:54 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > On May 5 08:45, Biswapriyo Nath via Cygwin wrote: > > > Chaging the defines in package may break others installation. > > > > No, it doesn't in this case. > > In what case would it? Case 1: Creating Cygwin executables Case 2: Creating native executables In case 1, setting _WIN32_WINNT to 0x0600 just follows reality in that Cygwin executables don't run on pre-Vista anymore, so using Win32 functions from same executables follows the same rule. In case 2, it's a legitimate goal to create executables still running on older versions of Windows. In how far changing _WIN32_WINNT makes sense or not for native development doesn't actually belong here, it would have to be discussed on the mingw-w64 mailing lists. > > Yaakov is talking about mingw-w64 headers used to create *Cygwin* > > applications using the occasional Windows function. Cygwin executables > > in the distro run on Vista but not on XP or 2K3 anymore, given the > > Cygwin DLL doesn't. > > That too, as well as the mingw64-*-headers used in the MinGW-w64 > toolchain. I disagree, see above. > > Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these > > Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. > > > > Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't > > drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. > > I suppose so for Cygwin, but the mingw64-*-headers could be different. No, the mingw headers for Cygwin are mainly targeted at building Cygwin executables additionally using Win32 functions, and these are runing on 0x0600 or later. The fact that Cygwin is developed using the same set of headers doesn't really matter for this. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Cygwin Maintainer -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On Tue, 2020-05-05 at 10:54 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > On May 5 08:45, Biswapriyo Nath via Cygwin wrote: > > Chaging the defines in package may break others installation. > > No, it doesn't in this case. In what case would it? > Yaakov is talking about mingw-w64 headers used to create *Cygwin* > applications using the occasional Windows function. Cygwin executables > in the distro run on Vista but not on XP or 2K3 anymore, given the > Cygwin DLL doesn't. That too, as well as the mingw64-*-headers used in the MinGW-w64 toolchain. > Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these > Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. > > Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't > drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. I suppose so for Cygwin, but the mingw64-*-headers could be different. > Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned > out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific > workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I > didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 > running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while > longer. Fair enough. -- Yaakov -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On May 5 10:06, JonY via Cygwin wrote: > On 5/5/20 9:05 AM, Rainer Emrich wrote: > > Hi Corinna, > > > > Am 05.05.2020 um 10:54 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: > >> Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these > >> Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. > >> > >> Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't > >> drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. > >> > >> Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned > >> out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific > >> workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I > >> didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 > >> running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while > >> longer. > > I would expect support for Windows 7 as long as the Micsrosoft ESU > > program is active. > > > > By right, applications needing newer APIs should be setting them instead > of relying on the defaults. In this case, Cygwin compiled with > -D_WIN32_WINNT=0x602 if needed. It's not about compiling Cygwin itself (which sets _WIN32_WINNT to 0x0a00 anyway), it's about compiling executables *for* Cygwin. Given they won't run under pre-0x0600 anyway, it may be a good thing if the win32 headers for Cygwin executables define the minimum possible as default. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Cygwin Maintainer -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On 5/5/20 9:05 AM, Rainer Emrich wrote: > Hi Corinna, > > Am 05.05.2020 um 10:54 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: >> Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these >> Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. >> >> Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't >> drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. >> >> Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned >> out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific >> workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I >> didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 >> running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while >> longer. > I would expect support for Windows 7 as long as the Micsrosoft ESU > program is active. > By right, applications needing newer APIs should be setting them instead of relying on the defaults. In this case, Cygwin compiled with -D_WIN32_WINNT=0x602 if needed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
Hi Corinna, Am 05.05.2020 um 10:54 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: > Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these > Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. > > Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't > drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. > > Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned > out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific > workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I > didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 > running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while > longer. I would expect support for Windows 7 as long as the Micsrosoft ESU program is active. Cheers Rainer signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
On May 5 08:45, Biswapriyo Nath via Cygwin wrote: > Chaging the defines in package may break others installation. No, it doesn't in this case. Yaakov is talking about mingw-w64 headers used to create *Cygwin* applications using the occasional Windows function. Cygwin executables in the distro run on Vista but not on XP or 2K3 anymore, given the Cygwin DLL doesn't. Therefore it might be a good idea to bump the default for these Cygwin-related headers to at least 0x0600. Setting them to 0x0602 sounds like a good idea, but as long as we didn't drop Vista or W7 support it might be premature. Btw., checking Cygwin sources for Vista and W7-specific code, it turned out that actually very few lines of code handle Vista or W7-specific workarounds. The advantage of removing the code is pretty minor, so I didn't push the changes. While it's a bad idea to keep Vista and W7 running (at least attached to the internet), we can support them a while longer. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Cygwin Maintainer -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Default mingw _WIN32_WINNT
Chaging the defines in package may break others installation. You can set the version in source code as you need, for example: #undef _WIN32_WINNT #define _WIN32_WINNT 0x602 -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
