Re: CDR: Re: This is why a free society is evil.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Tim May wrote: -- If an employee doesn't like the calendar that another employee has on his desk, she can talk to others in the company. Maybe they'll have it removed. But she CANNOT use the courts to intervene in a matter of how the company's owners deal with their property. Her civil liberties aren't the employers property. Further, the PRIVILIGE of running a business does not have greater importance than freedom of speech and such. "Privilige (sic) of running a business"? Huh? Do you have the "Privilege" of being allowed to work? To say running a business is a "privilege" is to say that every action, everything that a person does besides breathing is a privilege. Who can bestow that privilege? Asinine. Simply having a desire to run a company does not justify using other people as property nor dictating behaviours that don't DIRECTLY effect the Unless you are chaining people to their desks, posting armed guards to prevent them from leaving, or using the law to prevent them from quiting and finding another job, you aren't treating them as property. You are treating them as adults, as independent people who can make up their own minds as to where and under what conditions they are willing to work. process of making profit. Democratic theory demands that unless the calendar can be demonstrably infringing a civil liberty it shouldn't be an issue. Freedom until you infringe anothers. The fundamental flaw with Libertarianism is it's myopic focus on economic efficiency. It's just another form of oppression via another face of socialism. Utter nonsense. But then the further the subject strays from programming and computers, the more that is common from you. As to money being the primary goal of society and it having some ability to guarantee anything approaching 'justice', "Money and not morality is the principle of commerce and commercial nations." Money, or rather the trade of goods and services *is* the morality of a society. Or to put it a little better, Money is the INDICATOR of the morality of a culture. It tells you what they value, what they want and what they think important. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** "Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal authority, I keep imagining its competence." John Perry Barlow
Re: The Cost of California Liberalism
In recent years California citizens have decided against new electric power generation projects within their jurisdiction and to enforce strict air pollution standards on any existing facilities. This is great as long as the people making this decision pay the cost. Unfortunately the cost of these decisions are not being borne only be the citizens of California. The bad decisions of the citizens of California have produced an energy crisis in what is called the Northwest for which all citizens in what is called the Northwest must pay the price. Here I sit in Vancouver BC Canada paying outrageous prices for natural gas because of the demand in California for natural gas for heating and electrical generation purposes. I feel California should pay for their previous decisions themselves, if you don't want power plants don't use power or pay the complete premium for your decision. Of course the system can never be made to work in this way so here I sit in Canada paying for bad decisions in California. I live in California, and I agree 100% with your statements. The reason we aren't "paying our fair share" has to do not with greedy corporations, but with the ignorant peasants whinging to the government. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** "Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal authority, I keep imagining its competence." John Perry Barlow
The Cost of Natural Gas [was Re: The Cost of California Liberalism]
"Raymond D. Mereniuk" wrote: Here I sit in Vancouver BC Canada paying outrageous prices for natural gas because of the demand in California for natural gas for heating and electrical generation purposes. I feel California should pay for their previous decisions themselves, if you don't want power plants don't use power or pay the complete premium for your decision. Sorry, such is the nature of free (and shared) markets. If anything you should thank California; if they had been building more power plants, they'd be buying more natural gas and driving up your prices even more. Besides, have your prices gone up beyond your acceptable level because of California, because of cold weather, because your neighbor replaced his oil burner with a gas furnace, or because Williams Company has been spending its money laying fiber optics instead of more gas pipelines? Natural gas is a great fuel source. You, lots of Californians, and I made a good choice in deciding to use it. Perhaps we need to reevaluate our decisions given the current situation, but blaming others for making the same decision we did doesn't make much sense. Of course the system can never be made to work in this way so here I sit in Canada paying for bad decisions in California. Sure it can, you can just take yourself out of California's market. Buy yourself a wood stove and petition your government to build/encourage more nuclear power plants. (Hey, the bottom's fallen out of the nuclear fuel rod market and I doubt California's going to be responsible for price increases in that market any time soon.)
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Re: CDR: Re: This is why a free society is evil. (fwd)
Tim May writes: Folks, this increase in MIME attachments is getting out of hand. People are reading this list on a variety of machines, from PDAs to Amigas to VT100s to Unix boxes to Windows. I have a solution. I keep MIME turned off, and if the 7-bit representation of the message is not instantly recognizable as substantially English, I hit delete. Sometimes, if I am in a bad mood, I hit delete upon seeing the large "M" next to the message on the index, and don't even bother reading it. If the MIME infestation proliferates, this process can be automated. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Re: CDR: Re: This is why a free society is evil.
-- At 02:15 AM 12/17/2000 -0800, petro wrote: Her civil liberties aren't the employers property. Further, the PRIVILIGE of running a business does not have greater importance than freedom of speech and such. If running a business is a privilege, then of course it will be restricted to the privileged, which is exactly what we see in the more extreme social democracies, where the people running the show are usually the lineal descendents of those who got their start at the time of Napoleon. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG v3qxyKbLMz4jMhEuuO+gleBfPXjm9aH4lPJElTCM 4a7b9+GMOQHNYIGTf4tq026J5OgmLPmAFeJcHNyD/
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Re: throw-away acct test
On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 01:18:11PM -0800, montag montag wrote: testing ... testing CHECK ! It works. Not too useful when Yahoo records your IP address. Received: from [64.164.25.91] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 +13:18:11 PST Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:18:11 -0800 (PST) From: montag montag [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: throw-away acct test And when there are only a couple of regular posters using similar connections to adsl-64-164-25-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net I'd guess that there is a moderate probability of you being "Jonathan Wienke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] - JonathanW (adsl-64-164-156-82.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.164.156.82]) from a couple of recent postings. Of course this is all rampant speculation on my part. Brian -- Brian C. Lane - Linux Programmer/Consultant/Writer www.brianlane.com Virtual Web Hosting www.nexuscomputing.com NRA Life Member www.libertynews.org 911 -- government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer. PGP signature
Re: The Cost of California Liberalism
At 08:35 AM 12/17/00 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: The reality is the NW people got what they deserved. They voted to use the Cali. power grid instead of their own. No injustice or wrong has occured here because everyone got a say. You reap what you sow. It's a market thing, or as liberals would say, it's about sharing. Power generation capacity on the West Coast normally balances between California air conditioning in the summer and Northwest heating in the winter, and if each area had enough capacity for all its needs, the system would be way overbuilt. I don't know if Northwesters are as aggressive Not In My Back Yarders as Californians about building power plants, but it's much more efficient to use a power grid. Except, of course, when you overload it and stress the capacity limits and have stuff catch fire in the summer... Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
