Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 19:50, Nomen Nescio wrote: > I don't think I've ever heard that the Nazi prisoners where > drugged, abused or otherwice tortured or mistreated and > humiliated. Feel free to enlighten me on this. if you count a haircut as abuse, torture, and mistreatment, I expect that the

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Eric Cordian
James A. Donald wrote: > Well if there is no legitimate authority, then state of nature applies. > Give him the justice that Mussolini and Ceasescu got. Hang him by his > feet from a lamp post in central Baghdad for his victims to use as > pinata Bear in mind that we could probably find plenty

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > This "green light" story is a commie lie (originally a Baathist > lie, but these days mostly repeated by commies) > > I take it then that the heroic rescue of Private Jessica Lynch is also the truth, while the story about the use of excessive (and

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- James A. Donald: > > Saddam will be judged by his victims, who have jurisdiction > > enough for me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > It is tempting to say that the victims have some kind of > natural right to see justice done against this tyrant. The > problem is that the there is no one in Iraq with

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread cubic-dog
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Michael Kalus wrote: > I'll have a look at it. But I guess you also tell me that anything > Michael Moore said in "Bowling for Columbine" is wrong too? Not wrong exactly, just completely biased, wrong headed, snuffling at the ass of anti-gun Hollywood so it would be hailed

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 19-Dec-03, at 2:35 PM, James A. Donald wrote: > -- > On 18 Dec 2003 at 21:57, J.A. Terranson wrote: >> Yet, I shed and continue to shed tears for a race of people >> that refuses to respect the rights of men and their nations. >> Like the Sovie

Re: President of Flies

2003-12-19 Thread proclus
On 19 Dec, Nomen Nescio wrote: > US is currently run by thugs supported by the cheering consumer crowds that have > been bred and conditioned to be infantile. Your analysis hangs on this assertion. You may be underestimating the revulsion of the US electorate towards the actions of the current a

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 10:57, Steve Schear wrote: > Saddam Hussein summoned US Ambassador Glaspie and asked her > to clarify the American position. > > "I have direct instructions from the President to seek better > relations with Iraq. […] Our opinion is that you should have > the opportunity

Re: Release Saddam now

2003-12-19 Thread proclus
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: > -- > On 19 Dec 2003 at 13:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and >> occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over >> to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. > > To judge by

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread proclus
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: > -- > Saddam will be judged by his victims, who have jurisdiction > enough for me. It is tempting to say that the victims have some kind of natural right to see justice done against this tyrant. The problem is that the there is no one in Iraq with legitima

Re: Release Saddam now

2003-12-19 Thread Anatoly Vorobey
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 01:17:28PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He > should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate > authorities, such as the international courts. Advocate for the > release of Saddam Hussein, and

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 10:57, Steve Schear wrote: > [Jim, don't you ever do a bit of research on historical > topics before spouting off? Google is your friend. Use it.] > > From Ramsey Clark's excellent "The Fire This Time". > http://www.firethistime.org/linesscript.htm TRACK 3 : LINES > IN THE

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- James A. Donald: > > Every citation Chomsky gives is fraudulent. > > > > I recently posted a paragraph by paragraph examination of > > one of his more notorious articles. Every single citation > > he gave was false in some central and crucial way. > > > > See my very long posting: http://

Re: Release Saddam now

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 13:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and > occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over > to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. To judge by its current woeful performance in the Serbian

Re: Release Saddam now

2003-12-19 Thread proclus
On 19 Dec, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > And here I thought the fuckwits couldn't get any dumber. Ahh yes, and such a clever riposts as well. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Steve Schear
At 11:06 AM 12/19/2003, Michael Kalus wrote: I'll have a look at it. But I guess you also tell me that anything Michael Moore said in "Bowling for Columbine" is wrong too? http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html "We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others that write what men do, not

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Anatoly Vorobey
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 10:11:32AM -0500, Sunder wrote: > That all depends on your definition of sovereign. After all, "we" put, or > at least helped, that monster into power. Not really, no. > So, while he was our puppet, He was never out puppet. > he was the good guy, He was never the good

President of Flies

2003-12-19 Thread Nomen Nescio
US is currently run by thugs supported by the cheering consumer crowds that have been bred and conditioned to be infantile. So the situation is best evaluated in the "Lord of Flies" context. As long as masters are winning and have stronger army than anyone else, nothing will change. You will no

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 11:00, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Let's face it: not even the Nazi war criminals were treated > in the way Saddam has been treated. Oh no, he got a shave and a dental examination, the horror, the horror. And in due course he is going to get an execution, which is exactly what

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Dec 2003 at 10:11, Sunder wrote: > That all depends on your definition of sovereign. After all, > "we" put, or at least helped, that monster into power. No we did not. in 1958 pro soviet socialists gained ascendency in Iraq, but a power struggle proceeded between the communist and b

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Steve Schear
At 07:19 AM 12/19/2003, Jim Dixon wrote: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Saddam had been less of an idiot, if he had left Kuwait alone, he would be relaxing in one of his palaces today and his sons would be out snatching women off the street, torturing people who had annoyed them

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Jim Dixon
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Steve Schear wrote: > >If Saddam had been less of an idiot, if he had left Kuwait alone, he would > >be relaxing in one of his palaces today and his sons would be out > >snatching women off the street, torturing people who had annoyed them -- > >you know, having a good night o

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- > Has Saddam recieved a lawyer yet? Will Saddam be judged by a > court having jurisdiction and being recognized > internationally? Saddam will be judged by his victims, who have jurisdiction enough for me. Who cares whether the guys at the Hague agree? Hague claims of jurisdiction have u

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- J.A. Terranson: > > > One leettllleee problem: we are not really at war. James A. Donald: > > Sure looks like war to me. J.A. Terranson: > I guess that's why the congresscritters told Shrub to GFY > when he tried to get a declaration? After 9/11 Congress gave the president a blank declara

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 18 Dec 2003 at 21:57, J.A. Terranson wrote: > Yet, I shed and continue to shed tears for a race of people > that refuses to respect the rights of men and their nations. > Like the Soviets. Or [now], the Americans... Such high moral sentiments from someone who claims that Americans deser

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 18-Dec-03, at 9:34 PM, James A. Donald wrote: > -- > On 18 Dec 2003 at 15:42, Michael Kalus wrote: >> By January 1984, /The Washington Post/ was reporting that the >> United States had told friendly nations in the Persian Gulf >> that the defea

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > The west, including the US traded and continues to trade > heavily with Castro, yet somehow that does not lead you to > believe they think Castro a good guy, nor does it lead you to > believe they are actively supporting him. > I don't think Castro

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > National Sovereignty, like the divine > right of kings, just is not taken seriously any more, and the > only people weeping big salt tears about its passing are those > who enthusiastically hailed all the Soviet violations of it as > wars of nationa

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Nomen Nescio
Ken, Eh what? Yes I've heard a lot of the Soviet union, however I don't see what you meant by that comment here. What I was referring to was the winning powers' treatment of the Nazi war criminals after WWII, Nurnburg trials and so on. (Note the word "trials" here) I don't think I've ever hear

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > The US has global hegemony because in reality its policies are > reasonable, > because it isn't worth anyone's while to try to oppose it. > that I would like to oppose. It is rather the fact that in the past it wasn't very feasible. The world is g

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Kalus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 19-Dec-03, at 11:55 AM, ken wrote: > Nomen Nescio wrote: > >> Let's face it: not even the Nazi war criminals were treated in the >> way Saddam has been treated. > > > Eh? > > And have you heard about the Soviet Union? > I'll take it then that the

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Sunder
Right, the Declaration of Independance starts off with "We hold these truths to be self evident..." and lists that some rights are inalienable, and granted to us just because we are human, so therefore they apply to all humans everywhere... Well, in practice between what was done to Native America

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Richard Fiero
privacy.at Anonymous Remailer wrote: Greetings Has Saddam recieved a lawyer yet? Will Saddam be judged by a court having jurisdiction and being recognized internationally? The Hague has no jurisdiction over crimes committed in the past due to the "Henry Kissinger" clause insisted upon by the US.

Release Saddam now

2003-12-19 Thread proclus
Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. Advocate for the release of Saddam Hussein, and the withdrawal of the USurpers. Pass the word. Regards, proclus http://ww

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Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Steve Schear
At 02:00 AM 12/19/2003, Nomen Nescio wrote: After WWI the "winners" humiliated the loosers badly. This is one of the main reasons Hitler came to power and got support from the Germans for the aggressions that started the war. He managed to use these feelings of being treated as dogs and paying t

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread cubic-dog
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Jim Dixon wrote: > The cost for politicians mandating such a policy > would be equally high: they would be out of office and facing criminal > charges themselves. No, I think they would be dead. At first opportunity. Or at least, I like to think so.

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread ken
Nomen Nescio wrote: Let's face it: not even the Nazi war criminals were treated in the way Saddam has been treated. Eh? And have you heard about the Soviet Union?

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Jim Dixon
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >In a nutshell, our Constitution *recognizes* universal human rights. It > > does > > >not *establish* these rights. If we are going to be faithful to this > > >premise, physical location is a non-sequitor. > > > > This is a valid and probably com

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Justin
Jim Dixon (2003-12-19 13:30Z) wrote: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > In a nutshell, our Constitution *recognizes* universal human rights. > > It does not *establish* these rights. If we are going to be > > faithful to this premise, physical location is a non-sequitor. > > Thi

Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?

2003-12-19 Thread Sunder
That all depends on your definition of sovereign. After all, "we" put, or at least helped, that monster into power. No different an action than we the many times before putting tyrants into control of small, but important nations under the guise of "protecting democracy." So, while he was our

Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Freematt357
In a message dated 12/19/2003 8:33:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, J.A. Terranson wrote: >>Why does the US military have >>to treat them as though they had US constitutional rights?  They are not >>citizens or physically present in the United States. >

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Re: Sunny Guantanamo (Re: Speaking of the Geneva convention)

2003-12-19 Thread Jim Dixon
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > Why does the US military have > > to treat them as though they had US constitutional rights? They are not > > citizens or physically present in the United States. > > In a nutshell, our Constitution *recognizes* universal human rights. It does > not

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