Tim, sorry it was unclear from my post whom I was referring to. It was James A.
Donald. I did put his message id in a reply-to header.
Jim Dixon wrote:
Hitler, you mean? Or did you have Milosevic in mind?
No what I meant was what IF somehow Bush or Blaire or some other high ranking
coalition
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Your whole post is based on the feeling that we're gonna do what they
did to us.
There were at least three points made in my post:
* The treatment of Saddam seems well within the rules laid down by the
Geneva conventions.
* On the other hand, he and
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Later today, a source close to the interrogation said that Saddam would be
subjected to stress and sleep deprivation. Basically, teams of
interrogators will ask questions over and over again, and no one will get
any rest until answers are provided.
At least here in NYC local news, it's common to
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On 17 Dec 2003 at 9:00, Nomen Nescio wrote:
No what I meant was what IF somehow Bush or Blaire or some
other high ranking coalition politician were captured by Iraq
during the war and was treated in the same way. I can only
presume you would support Saddam's soldiers checking Bush
Truly great.
In doing so you have manifested what has been written here
about gasing into the abyss and so on.
On 17 Dec 2003 at 8:36, Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked
and getting a haircut. :-|
--
Jim Dixon [EMAIL
In a message dated 12/17/2003 1:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Firstly, the US army has not violated the Geneva convention:
How so?
we will
cheerfully wade knee deep through blood and the body parts of
innocents to destroy those that threaten us, as the crusaders
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Uncle Sams Guantanamo Prison:
Outside the Rule of Law
http://www.independent.org/tii/news/031215ONeil.html
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The latest news from Guantanamo Bay is beginning to sound like a modern-day Simpsons episode. After two years of imprisoning more than 600 alleged
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Tyler Durden wrote:
Later today, a source close to the interrogation said that Saddam
would be
subjected to stress and sleep deprivation. Basically, teams of
interrogators will ask questions over and over again, and no one will get
any rest until answers are provided.
At least here in NYC
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In response to such damning reports, the Administration contends that the
detainees are dangerous terrorists and thus do not deserve any legal
protections,
much less liberal sympathies. But after two years of investigations at the
camp, the
Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
M.
James A. Donald wrote:
Firstly, the US army has not violated the Geneva convention:
Saddam was eligible for being shot on sight.
That might have been. But he was not, and he is shown and paraded on
TV (and don't tell me he wasn't because showing a man in his state,
showing how he gets
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Michael Kalus wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
You have omitted a bit. A better
Jim Dixon wrote:
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
You have omitted a bit. A better question might be: how would you have
felt if you had looted an entire country for 30 years, invaded two others,
Jim Dixon wrote:
If the prisoners at Guantanamo are POWs, why should they be charged with
crimes? It is no crime to be an enemy soldier.
According to the US Government though they are not soldiers. They are
unlawful enemy combattants.
However, customary practice is to lock POWs up until
I'd be real happy about
millions of bleeding hearts all over the world jerking their knees in
unison, ready to cry a fucking ocean over this unbelievably cruel
haircut and medical check-up I'm being given. Fucking tools.
A thread that started out quasi-interesting has descended into
You wrote on Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 03:19:43PM -0500:
Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world
Anatoly Vorobey wrote:
If I had record like Saddam's on me?
Gee, I'd be real happy I wasn't shot on the spot, or maybe cruelly
tortured and then shot, the way I'd behaved to people I'd captured.
Or maybe torn into pieces by a shrieking mob.
Instead of doing any of that, they check my teeth and
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On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:41:07PM +, Jim Dixon wrote:
You have omitted a bit. A better question might be: how would you have
felt if you had looted an entire country for 30 years, invaded two others,
annihilated any who objected, butchered hundreds of thousands of people,
dispatched
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:53:56PM -0500, BillyGOTO wrote:
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:06:55PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
A thread that started out quasi-interesting has descended into
non-Cypherpunk levels of triviality.
I thought it was trivial all along.
The original point stands, and is valid. The Islamic world and, in
particular, the Arabic
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 12:12:55PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote:
This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq.
We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism.
No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. Twenty years
ago it was a different story.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 17-Dec-03, at 5:23 PM, Jim Dixon wrote:
Damn lucky, to be honest.
No I did not omit this little bit. This is not the question.
Oh but it is.
Ah? Why?
Guilt or not guilt is not (supposely) decided when captured but in a
court of law. You
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 17-Dec-03, at 5:43 PM, Jim Dixon wrote:
According to the US Government though they are not soldiers. They are
unlawful enemy combattants.
I can only interpret this as your saying that the US Government's
judgement in this issue is correct,
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 06:59:59PM -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
us. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but our foreign policy ought to be
made based on what is in our long-term best interest (our meaning
American citizens); realistically, terrorist attacks are a fairly small
part of that
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen guilty anyone? This is the basis for the
enlightened western
At 02:08 PM 12/15/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
...
Well, of course Saddam is going to test positive...he's apparently an
actual CLONE.
Actually, from what I understand this is the 'original' Saddam (note how
much older he seems than the Saddams we've been seeing in the press over
the last few
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done).
Of course it matters.
This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen guilty anyone? This is the basis for the
At 12:34 PM 12/14/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 11:52 AM 12/13/03 -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
...
One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't
actually make peace.
Good points, but not entirely true. For instance, we could stop the
Jihad (tm) (including future Jihads
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 18:18, Jim Dixon wrote:
I spent several years travelling in that part of the world.
Well, that just blew your credibility with this crowd. You're supposed
to spout off on topics about which you know nothing. Bonus points for
reflexive anti-state-ism [1] [2], and in
Harmon Seaver wrote:
This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq.
We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism.
No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us.
Twenty years ago it was a different story.
The propaganda mills were working for
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 03:10:35AM +0100, Tarapia Tapioco wrote:
Harmon Seaver wrote:
This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq.
We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism.
No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us.
Twenty years ago
On Dec 16, 2003, at 1:50 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
This makes me a bit curious. Tell me, is your opinion then that the
U.S. has done nothing questionable here? You don't feel that treating
a former head of state (regardless of what you happen to think of that
person) in this manner and
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Your whole post is based on the feeling that we're gonna do what they
did to us.
There were at least three points made in my post:
* The treatment of Saddam seems well within the rules laid down by the
Geneva conventions.
* On the other hand, he and
Tim, sorry it was unclear from my post whom I was referring to. It was James A.
Donald. I did put his message id in a reply-to header.
Jim Dixon wrote:
Hitler, you mean? Or did you have Milosevic in mind?
No what I meant was what IF somehow Bush or Blaire or some other high ranking
coalition
--
On 16 Dec 2003 at 22:50, Nomen Nescio wrote:
This makes me a bit curious. Tell me, is your opinion then
that the U.S. has done nothing questionable here? You don't
feel that treating a former head of state (regardless of what
you happen to think of that person) in this manner and
In a message dated 12/17/2003 1:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Firstly, the US army has not violated the Geneva convention:
How so?
we will
cheerfully wade knee deep through blood and the body parts of
innocents to destroy those that threaten us, as the crusaders
--
On 17 Dec 2003 at 9:00, Nomen Nescio wrote:
No what I meant was what IF somehow Bush or Blaire or some
other high ranking coalition politician were captured by Iraq
during the war and was treated in the same way. I can only
presume you would support Saddam's soldiers checking Bush
Truly great.
In doing so you have manifested what has been written here
about gasing into the abyss and so on.
On 17 Dec 2003 at 8:36, Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked
and getting a haircut. :-|
--
Jim Dixon [EMAIL
Terrorism: The New Aviation Threat
http://www.c-spanstore.com/172153.html
Since I started loading this video stream I am now watching several hours
ago, I no longer remember where I saw the link I clicked on that has allowed
me to watch this without buying it :-( But the regular purchase link is
J.A. Terranson (2003-12-17 06:40Z) wrote:
Terrorism: The New Aviation Threat
http://www.c-spanstore.com/172153.html
Since I started loading this video stream I am now watching several hours
ago, I no longer remember where I saw the link I clicked on that has allowed
me to watch this
On Tuesday 16 December 2003 21:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/15/2003 9:44:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There are specific clauses which refer to not publically humiliating a
prisoner. I'm surprised the Agitprop Division didn't show video of
J.A. Terranson (2003-12-17 06:40Z) wrote:
Terrorism: The New Aviation Threat
http://www.c-spanstore.com/172153.html
C-SPAN likes to play games splitting up videos into 2 or more parts.
The part you mention is probably in the second half...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3324021.stm
And probably they're using drugs to interview Saddam, which explains the
quick following busts.
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
Natt writes:
You're one-hundred percent correct. I saw that sack of shit Rumsfeld on
a press conference this afternoon where he answered the specific
question of does parading Saddam around violate the Geneva convention.?
Rumsfeld also revealed that the CIA has taken over the Saddam
In a message dated 12/15/2003 9:44:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There are specific clauses which refer to not publically humiliating a
prisoner. I'm surprised the Agitprop Division didn't show video of
Saddam taking his first dump while in custody.
Saddam is not a
Later today, a source close to the interrogation said that Saddam would be
subjected to stress and sleep deprivation. Basically, teams of
interrogators will ask questions over and over again, and no one will get
any rest until answers are provided.
At least here in NYC local news, it's common to
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Michael Kalus wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
You have omitted a bit. A better
Jim Dixon wrote:
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
You have omitted a bit. A better question might be: how would you have
felt if you had looted an entire country for 30 years, invaded two others,
Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world watching?
M.
James A. Donald wrote:
Firstly, the US army has not violated the Geneva convention:
Saddam was eligible for being shot on sight.
That might have been. But he was not, and he is shown and paraded on
TV (and don't tell me he wasn't because showing a man in his state,
showing how he gets
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In response to such damning reports, the Administration contends that the
detainees are dangerous terrorists and thus do not deserve any legal
protections,
much less liberal sympathies. But after two years of investigations at the
camp, the
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:41:07PM +, Jim Dixon wrote:
You have omitted a bit. A better question might be: how would you have
felt if you had looted an entire country for 30 years, invaded two others,
annihilated any who objected, butchered hundreds of thousands of people,
dispatched
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 17-Dec-03, at 5:23 PM, Jim Dixon wrote:
Damn lucky, to be honest.
No I did not omit this little bit. This is not the question.
Oh but it is.
Ah? Why?
Guilt or not guilt is not (supposely) decided when captured but in a
court of law. You
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 17-Dec-03, at 5:43 PM, Jim Dixon wrote:
According to the US Government though they are not soldiers. They are
unlawful enemy combattants.
I can only interpret this as your saying that the US Government's
judgement in this issue is correct,
Jim Dixon wrote:
If the prisoners at Guantanamo are POWs, why should they be charged with
crimes? It is no crime to be an enemy soldier.
According to the US Government though they are not soldiers. They are
unlawful enemy combattants.
However, customary practice is to lock POWs up until
Anatoly Vorobey wrote:
If I had record like Saddam's on me?
Gee, I'd be real happy I wasn't shot on the spot, or maybe cruelly
tortured and then shot, the way I'd behaved to people I'd captured.
Or maybe torn into pieces by a shrieking mob.
Instead of doing any of that, they check my teeth and
At 12:34 PM 12/14/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 11:52 AM 12/13/03 -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
..
One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't
actually make peace.
Good points, but not entirely true. For instance, we could stop the
Jihad (tm) (including future Jihads by
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done).
Of course it matters.
This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen guilty anyone? This is the basis for the
You wrote on Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 03:19:43PM -0500:
Jim Dixon wrote:
I have gazed into the abyss and seen a man having his teeth checked and
getting a haircut. :-|
And how would you have felt to be the one who got your teeth checked and
get a haircut with the whole world
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen guilty anyone? This is the basis for the
enlightened western
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 18:18, Jim Dixon wrote:
I spent several years travelling in that part of the world.
Well, that just blew your credibility with this crowd. You're supposed
to spout off on topics about which you know nothing. Bonus points for
reflexive anti-state-ism [1] [2], and in
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 12:12:55PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote:
This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq.
We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism.
No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. Twenty years
ago it was a different story.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:53:56PM -0500, BillyGOTO wrote:
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter
what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment.
Innocent until proofen
At 02:08 PM 12/15/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
..
Well, of course Saddam is going to test positive...he's apparently an
actual CLONE.
Actually, from what I understand this is the 'original' Saddam (note how
much older he seems than the Saddams we've been seeing in the press over
the last few
I'd be real happy about
millions of bleeding hearts all over the world jerking their knees in
unison, ready to cry a fucking ocean over this unbelievably cruel
haircut and medical check-up I'm being given. Fucking tools.
A thread that started out quasi-interesting has descended into
Tyler Durden wrote:
Later today, a source close to the interrogation said that Saddam
would be
subjected to stress and sleep deprivation. Basically, teams of
interrogators will ask questions over and over again, and no one will get
any rest until answers are provided.
At least here in NYC
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:06:55PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
A thread that started out quasi-interesting has descended into
non-Cypherpunk levels of triviality.
I thought it was trivial all along.
The original point stands, and is valid. The Islamic world and, in
particular, the Arabic
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 06:59:59PM -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
us. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but our foreign policy ought to be
made based on what is in our long-term best interest (our meaning
American citizens); realistically, terrorist attacks are a fairly small
part of that
Harmon Seaver wrote:
This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq.
We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism.
No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us.
Twenty years ago it was a different story.
The propaganda mills were working for
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