Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Neil Johnson wrote:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They all starve.
Lambs can eat grass, which is usually unarmed.
It
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:06:43PM +, ken wrote:
Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Neil Johnson wrote:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They
Optical Mark Sense - certainly the way to go if you want to computerize,
except that the manufacturers aren't big Bush Republican donors.
I'm used to mechanical lever machines in Delaware and New Jersey
(which seem to mostly work well except for write-in votes),
plus the punch-card things in
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Neil Johnson wrote:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They all starve.
Lambs can eat grass, which is usually unarmed.
Optical Mark Sense - certainly the way to go if you want to computerize,
except that the manufacturers aren't big Bush Republican donors.
I'm used to mechanical lever machines in Delaware and New Jersey
(which seem to mostly work well except for write-in votes),
plus the punch-card things in
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Neil Johnson wrote:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They all starve.
Lambs can eat grass, which is usually unarmed.
At 11:10 PM 11/26/03 +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Cameras in the voting booth? Jesus Christ, you guys are morons. If
you
want to sell your vote, just vote absentee. The ward guy will even
stamp
and mail it for you. Happens every election.
For some reason I don't understand, people actually
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 11:18 am, Tim May wrote:
Liberty is characterized in the .sig below:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They all starve.
--
Neil
At 07:10 PM 11/25/03 -0800, Tim May wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
The only ones allowed to buy votes are the ones running for office.
And they are required to do it on credit.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the
Major Variola (ret) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote on 2003-11-25:
Vinny the Votebuyer pays you if you send a picture of your
face adjacent to the committed receipt, even if you can't touch it.
* Voter locks in choice on touch screen.
* Paper receipt is printed and
shown to voter.
* Voter
At 12:56 PM 11/25/03 -0500, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
Add focus and aiming issues, and this just won't
At 07:10 PM 11/25/03 -0800, Tim May wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
The only ones allowed to buy votes are the ones running for office.
And they are required to do it on credit.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the
At 11:10 PM 11/26/03 +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Cameras in the voting booth? Jesus Christ, you guys are morons. If
you
want to sell your vote, just vote absentee. The ward guy will even
stamp
and mail it for you. Happens every election.
For some reason I don't understand, people actually
On Tuesday 25 November 2003 01:21 pm, Trei, Peter wrote:
[snip]
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots. Have some imagination - you could, for example, set things
up so the voter, and only the voter, can see the screen and/or paper
receipt while
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 07:10:28PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
On Nov 25, 2003, at 5:05 PM, BillyGOTO wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 03:26:18PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
(I fully support vote buying and selling, needless to say. Simple
right to make a contract.)
What's your take on this situation,
On Nov 26, 2003, at 8:10 AM, BillyGOTO wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
You can't sell your vote for the same reason that Djinni don't
grant wishes for more wishes.
A silly comment. I take it you're saying Because the rules don't allow
it. Or something similar to this.
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots.
I think it's called OCR.
Paper ballots, marked by the voter, not by software, then counted by
software:
- the ballot and the audit document are one and the same - no opportunity
for software to mess with
Miles Fidelman wrote:
- option for a quick and dirty recount by feeding the ballots through
a different counting machine (maybe with different software, from a
different vendor)
or indeed constructing said machines so they *assume* they will be feeding
another machine in a chain (so every party
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dave Howe wrote:
Miles Fidelman wrote:
- option for a quick and dirty recount by feeding the ballots through
a different counting machine (maybe with different software, from a
different vendor)
or indeed constructing said machines so they *assume* they will be
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 09:18:42AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
On Nov 26, 2003, at 8:10 AM, BillyGOTO wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
You can't sell your vote for the same reason that Djinni don't
grant wishes for more wishes.
A silly comment. I take it you're saying
Miles Fidelman wrote:
Peter Trei wrote:
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots.
I think it's called OCR
Actually, I think its called 'Optical Mark Sense'.
Paper ballots, marked by the voter, not by software, then counted by
software:
- the
Doesn't make sense.
Votes are already bought and sold, but there's so many middle men taking
their cuts in the form of military bases or whatnot that the enduser barely
gets some.
-TD
From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: e voting (receipts, votebuying, brinworld
Cameras in the voting booth? Jesus Christ, you guys are morons. If you
want to sell your vote, just vote absentee. The ward guy will even stamp
and mail it for you. Happens every election.
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 11:18 am, Tim May wrote:
Liberty is characterized in the .sig below:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-- Ben Franklin
And if they are all armed ? They all starve.
--
Neil
Major Variola (ret) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote on 2003-11-25:
Vinny the Votebuyer pays you if you send a picture of your
face adjacent to the committed receipt, even if you can't touch it.
* Voter locks in choice on touch screen.
* Paper receipt is printed and
shown to voter.
* Voter
On Tuesday 25 November 2003 01:21 pm, Trei, Peter wrote:
[snip]
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots. Have some imagination - you could, for example, set things
up so the voter, and only the voter, can see the screen and/or paper
receipt while
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 03:26:18PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
(I fully support vote buying and selling, needless to say. Simple right
to make a contract.)
What's your take on this situation, then:
BOSS: Get in that booth and vote Kennedy or I'll fire you. Take this
expensive camera with
On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:21 AM, Trei, Peter wrote:
Tim May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able
On Nov 26, 2003, at 8:10 AM, BillyGOTO wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
You can't sell your vote for the same reason that Djinni don't
grant wishes for more wishes.
A silly comment. I take it you're saying Because the rules don't allow
it. Or something similar to this.
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots.
I think it's called OCR.
Paper ballots, marked by the voter, not by software, then counted by
software:
- the ballot and the audit document are one and the same - no opportunity
for software to mess with
Miles Fidelman wrote:
- option for a quick and dirty recount by feeding the ballots through
a different counting machine (maybe with different software, from a
different vendor)
or indeed constructing said machines so they *assume* they will be feeding
another machine in a chain (so every party
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dave Howe wrote:
Miles Fidelman wrote:
- option for a quick and dirty recount by feeding the ballots through
a different counting machine (maybe with different software, from a
different vendor)
or indeed constructing said machines so they *assume* they will be
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 09:18:42AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
On Nov 26, 2003, at 8:10 AM, BillyGOTO wrote:
I have no problem with this free choice contract.
You can't sell your vote for the same reason that Djinni don't
grant wishes for more wishes.
A silly comment. I take it you're saying
Miles Fidelman wrote:
Peter Trei wrote:
All I want is a system which is not more easily screwed around with then
paper ballots.
I think it's called OCR
Actually, I think its called 'Optical Mark Sense'.
Paper ballots, marked by the voter, not by software, then counted by
software:
- the
Cameras in the voting booth? Jesus Christ, you guys are morons. If you
want to sell your vote, just vote absentee. The ward guy will even stamp
and mail it for you. Happens every election.
Doesn't make sense.
Votes are already bought and sold, but there's so many middle men taking
their cuts in the form of military bases or whatnot that the enduser barely
gets some.
-TD
From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: e voting (receipts, votebuying, brinworld
You might check out David Chaum's latest solution at
http://www.vreceipt.com/, there are more details in the whitepaper:
http://www.vreceipt.com/article.pdf
That is irrelevant. Whatever the solution is it must be understandable and
verifiable by the Standard high school dropout. Also, the
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
Add focus and aiming issues, and this just
Tim May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:21 AM, Trei, Peter wrote:
Tim May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 03:26:18PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
(I fully support vote buying and selling, needless to say. Simple right
to make a contract.)
What's your take on this situation, then:
BOSS: Get in that booth and vote Kennedy or I'll fire you. Take this
expensive camera with
On Nov 25, 2003, at 5:05 PM, BillyGOTO wrote:
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 03:26:18PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
(I fully support vote buying and selling, needless to say. Simple
right
to make a contract.)
What's your take on this situation, then:
BOSS: Get in that booth and vote Kennedy or I'll fire
On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 11/24/2003 11:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across.
What part of I
In a message dated 11/24/2003 11:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across.
Like what?
Regards, Matt-
At 2:30 PM -0800 11/24/03, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 01:04 PM 11/24/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
Thats not how it works. The idea is that you make your choices on
the machine, and when you lock them in, two things happen: They
are electronically recorded in the device for the normal count, and
You might check out David Chaum's latest solution at
http://www.vreceipt.com/, there are more details in the whitepaper:
http://www.vreceipt.com/article.pdf
That is irrelevant. Whatever the solution is it must be understandable and
verifiable by the Standard high school dropout. Also, the
At 8:04 PM -0800 11/24/03, Tim May wrote:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across. And since
encouraging the democrats has never been a priority for me, I haven't
spent much time worrying about how to improve
On Nov 24, 2003, at 3:52 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
At 2:30 PM -0800 11/24/03, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 01:04 PM 11/24/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
Thats not how it works. The idea is that you make your choices on
the machine, and when you lock them in, two things happen: They
are electronically
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution, usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
Add focus and aiming issues, and this just won't work unless you carry a
good camera into the
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
Add focus and aiming issues, and this just
Tim May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Sunder wrote:
Um, last I checked, phone cameras have really shitty resolution,
usually
less than 320x200. Even so, you'd need MUCH higher resolution, say
3-5Mpixels to be able to read text on a printout in a picture.
At 01:04 PM 11/24/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
Thats not how it works. The idea is that you make your choices on
the machine, and when you lock them in, two things happen: They
are electronically recorded in the device for the normal count, and
also, a paper receipt is printed. The voter checks
At 2:30 PM -0800 11/24/03, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 01:04 PM 11/24/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
Thats not how it works. The idea is that you make your choices on
the machine, and when you lock them in, two things happen: They
are electronically recorded in the device for the normal count, and
On Nov 24, 2003, at 3:52 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
At 2:30 PM -0800 11/24/03, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 01:04 PM 11/24/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
Thats not how it works. The idea is that you make your choices on
the machine, and when you lock them in, two things happen: They
are electronically
In a message dated 11/24/2003 11:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across.
Like what?
Regards, Matt-
On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 11/24/2003 11:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across.
What part of I
At 8:04 PM -0800 11/24/03, Tim May wrote:
I expect there may be some good solutions to this issue, but I haven't
yet seen them discussed here or on other fora I run across. And since
encouraging the democrats has never been a priority for me, I haven't
spent much time worrying about how to improve
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