Re: [darktable-user] Questios about noise profile images for Pentax KP?

[Аl Воgnеr]

Am Wed, 24 May 2017 19:16:15 +0300
schrieb Roman Lebedev :

> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Аl Воgnеr 
> wrote:
> > Am Wed, 24 May 2017 16:04:25 +0300
> > schrieb Roman Lebedev :
> >  
> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Аl Воgnеr
> >>  wrote:  
> >> > I read
> >> > http://www.darktable.org/2012/12/profiling-sensor-and-photon-noise/
> >> > and want to create noise profile images with a Pentax KP.
> >> >  
> >> >> take one shot per iso.  
> >> >
> >> > 1 step ISO, 1/2 steps or 1/3 steps? Smaller steps will produce a
> >> > lot of photos, the Pentax KP supports 819200 ISO.  
> >> Basically, all the ISO that can be set in camera. So certainly 1/3.
> >> And if with 1/2, different values can be set, maybe those too.
> >>
> >> If the profile for a given iso does not exist, it will be linearly
> >> interpolated from the nearest samples on the each side.  
> >
> > Ok, so I will produce tons of RAWs
> >
> > Does it matter if they are in DNG or PEF, or do you want both?  
> It does not matter. If some camera can produce DNG, it is pretty much
> always better to use DNG.
> 
> >> >> it has to be out-of-focus and have a widespread histogram, i.e.
> >> >> be over- and underexposed at the same time (see example image
> >> >> below). if you want to be thorough, take 2-3 to verify the
> >> >> numbers.  
> >> >
> >> > So it should not be a normal sharp nightshot, but something out
> >> > of focus, eg a street lamp in the night?  
> >> I'd try to search for raws used for noiseprofile generation for
> >> some other camera and examining them. But yes, something like
> >> bright lamp illuminating half of the shot, and total darkness on
> >> the other half, with gradient change from one to the other one.  
> >
> > Is indoor preferred? I remember very noisy pictures in winter, which
> > were not noisy actually. It was warm wet air / fog in certain areas
> > only. Especially blue at dawn looked very noisy.  
> Can't say, experiment. In-doors should work fine.
> 
> >> >> this image looks very green, because the `raw linear' style has
> >> >> been applied to it (find it in darktable/tools/noise). this
> >> >> makes sure we get linear camera raw rgb with no basecurves, no
> >> >> whitebalance, etc in the way. it is essential that you apply
> >> >> this style.  
> >> >
> >> > So I have to change the camera to RGB? Are sRGB *and* RGB photos
> >> > wanted?  
> >> That is talking about the dt processing.
> >> Unless the manufacturer is *really* *really* dumb the in-camera
> >> color space selection only matters for the JPEG's, and the embedded
> >> thumbnails.  
> >
> > Ok, there are so much setting at Pentax cameras, which seem to
> > influence noise, but should work only with jpeg. Probaby it is best
> > to turn them off anyway.  
> Probably, yeah, but should not really matter.
> 
> > Should these files be uploaded to https://raw.pixls.us ?  
> Hell no.

Here is 1 sample with 1ISO:
https://www.file-upload.net/download-12516482/pentax.kp.dng.noise.sa_1.8_2.41_1i.dng.html

Can this be used for noise calibration?

Please note:

[EXIF]  0xc62b Baseline Noise  : 1
[MakerNotes]0x0049 Noise Reduction : Off
[MakerNotes]0x0071 High ISO Noise Reduction: Off; Inactive


Default is "High ISO Noise Reduction" on, which is probably used by
everyone. I don't know if this influences the raw-file

I have these samples from 100ISO - 819200ISO in 1/3 steps. (1.4GB)

Please let me know how to go on.

Al

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Re: [darktable-user] Questios about noise profile images for Pentax KP?

[Аl Воgnеr]

Am Wed, 24 May 2017 19:16:15 +0300
schrieb Roman Lebedev :

> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Аl Воgnеr 
> wrote:
> > Am Wed, 24 May 2017 16:04:25 +0300
> > schrieb Roman Lebedev :
> >  
> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Аl Воgnеr
> >>  wrote:  
> >> > I read
> >> > http://www.darktable.org/2012/12/profiling-sensor-and-photon-noise/
> >> > and want to create noise profile images with a Pentax KP.
> >> >  
> >> >> take one shot per iso.  
> >> >
> >> > 1 step ISO, 1/2 steps or 1/3 steps? Smaller steps will produce a
> >> > lot of photos, the Pentax KP supports 819200 ISO.  
> >> Basically, all the ISO that can be set in camera. So certainly 1/3.
> >> And if with 1/2, different values can be set, maybe those too.
> >>
> >> If the profile for a given iso does not exist, it will be linearly
> >> interpolated from the nearest samples on the each side.  
> >
> > Ok, so I will produce tons of RAWs
> >
> > Does it matter if they are in DNG or PEF, or do you want both?  
> It does not matter. If some camera can produce DNG, it is pretty much
> always better to use DNG.

I am asking because https://redmine.darktable.org/issues/11600 is still
unasigned. PEF cannot be loaded with dt, but DNG can, although it shows
something like "choose camera / lens manually"

> >> >> it has to be out-of-focus and have a widespread histogram, i.e.
> >> >> be over- and underexposed at the same time (see example image
> >> >> below). if you want to be thorough, take 2-3 to verify the
> >> >> numbers.  
> >> >
> >> > So it should not be a normal sharp nightshot, but something out
> >> > of focus, eg a street lamp in the night?  
> >> I'd try to search for raws used for noiseprofile generation for
> >> some other camera and examining them. But yes, something like
> >> bright lamp illuminating half of the shot, and total darkness on
> >> the other half, with gradient change from one to the other one.  
> >
> > Is indoor preferred? I remember very noisy pictures in winter, which
> > were not noisy actually. It was warm wet air / fog in certain areas
> > only. Especially blue at dawn looked very noisy.  
> Can't say, experiment. In-doors should work fine.
> 
> >> >> this image looks very green, because the `raw linear' style has
> >> >> been applied to it (find it in darktable/tools/noise). this
> >> >> makes sure we get linear camera raw rgb with no basecurves, no
> >> >> whitebalance, etc in the way. it is essential that you apply
> >> >> this style.  
> >> >
> >> > So I have to change the camera to RGB? Are sRGB *and* RGB photos
> >> > wanted?  
> >> That is talking about the dt processing.
> >> Unless the manufacturer is *really* *really* dumb the in-camera
> >> color space selection only matters for the JPEG's, and the embedded
> >> thumbnails.  
> >
> > Ok, there are so much setting at Pentax cameras, which seem to
> > influence noise, but should work only with jpeg. Probaby it is best
> > to turn them off anyway.  
> Probably, yeah, but should not really matter.
> 
> > Should these files be uploaded to https://raw.pixls.us ?  
> Hell no.

Ok, where can I upload them. I have no idea how to make a noise profile.

Al

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Re: [darktable-user] Questios about noise profile images for Pentax KP?

[Roman Lebedev]

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Аl Воgnеr  wrote:
> Am Wed, 24 May 2017 16:04:25 +0300
> schrieb Roman Lebedev :
>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Аl Воgnеr 
>> wrote:
>> > I read
>> > http://www.darktable.org/2012/12/profiling-sensor-and-photon-noise/
>> > and want to create noise profile images with a Pentax KP.
>> >
>> >> take one shot per iso.
>> >
>> > 1 step ISO, 1/2 steps or 1/3 steps? Smaller steps will produce a
>> > lot of photos, the Pentax KP supports 819200 ISO.
>> Basically, all the ISO that can be set in camera. So certainly 1/3.
>> And if with 1/2, different values can be set, maybe those too.
>>
>> If the profile for a given iso does not exist, it will be linearly
>> interpolated from the nearest samples on the each side.
>
> Ok, so I will produce tons of RAWs
>
> Does it matter if they are in DNG or PEF, or do you want both?
It does not matter. If some camera can produce DNG, it is pretty much
always better to use DNG.

>> >> it has to be out-of-focus and have a widespread histogram, i.e. be
>> >> over- and underexposed at the same time (see example image below).
>> >> if you want to be thorough, take 2-3 to verify the numbers.
>> >
>> > So it should not be a normal sharp nightshot, but something out of
>> > focus, eg a street lamp in the night?
>> I'd try to search for raws used for noiseprofile generation for some
>> other camera and examining them. But yes, something like bright lamp
>> illuminating half of the shot, and total darkness on the other half,
>> with gradient change from one to the other one.
>
> Is indoor preferred? I remember very noisy pictures in winter, which
> were not noisy actually. It was warm wet air / fog in certain areas
> only. Especially blue at dawn looked very noisy.
Can't say, experiment. In-doors should work fine.

>> >> this image looks very green, because the `raw linear' style has
>> >> been applied to it (find it in darktable/tools/noise). this makes
>> >> sure we get linear camera raw rgb with no basecurves, no
>> >> whitebalance, etc in the way. it is essential that you apply this
>> >> style.
>> >
>> > So I have to change the camera to RGB? Are sRGB *and* RGB photos
>> > wanted?
>> That is talking about the dt processing.
>> Unless the manufacturer is *really* *really* dumb the in-camera color
>> space selection only matters for the JPEG's, and the embedded
>> thumbnails.
>
> Ok, there are so much setting at Pentax cameras, which seem to
> influence noise, but should work only with jpeg. Probaby it is best to
> turn them off anyway.
Probably, yeah, but should not really matter.

> Should these files be uploaded to https://raw.pixls.us ?
Hell no.

> Al
Roman.

> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>

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Re: [darktable-user] Questios about noise profile images for Pentax KP?

[Аl Воgnеr]

Am Wed, 24 May 2017 16:04:25 +0300
schrieb Roman Lebedev :

> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Аl Воgnеr 
> wrote:
> > I read
> > http://www.darktable.org/2012/12/profiling-sensor-and-photon-noise/
> > and want to create noise profile images with a Pentax KP.
> >  
> >> take one shot per iso.  
> >
> > 1 step ISO, 1/2 steps or 1/3 steps? Smaller steps will produce a
> > lot of photos, the Pentax KP supports 819200 ISO.  
> Basically, all the ISO that can be set in camera. So certainly 1/3.
> And if with 1/2, different values can be set, maybe those too.
> 
> If the profile for a given iso does not exist, it will be linearly
> interpolated from the nearest samples on the each side.

Ok, so I will produce tons of RAWs

Does it matter if they are in DNG or PEF, or do you want both?

> >> it has to be out-of-focus and have a widespread histogram, i.e. be
> >> over- and underexposed at the same time (see example image below).
> >> if you want to be thorough, take 2-3 to verify the numbers.  
> >
> > So it should not be a normal sharp nightshot, but something out of
> > focus, eg a street lamp in the night?  
> I'd try to search for raws used for noiseprofile generation for some
> other camera and examining them. But yes, something like bright lamp
> illuminating half of the shot, and total darkness on the other half,
> with gradient change from one to the other one.

Is indoor preferred? I remember very noisy pictures in winter, which
were not noisy actually. It was warm wet air / fog in certain areas
only. Especially blue at dawn looked very noisy.

> >> this image looks very green, because the `raw linear' style has
> >> been applied to it (find it in darktable/tools/noise). this makes
> >> sure we get linear camera raw rgb with no basecurves, no
> >> whitebalance, etc in the way. it is essential that you apply this
> >> style.  
> >
> > So I have to change the camera to RGB? Are sRGB *and* RGB photos
> > wanted?  
> That is talking about the dt processing.
> Unless the manufacturer is *really* *really* dumb the in-camera color
> space selection only matters for the JPEG's, and the embedded
> thumbnails.

Ok, there are so much setting at Pentax cameras, which seem to
influence noise, but should work only with jpeg. Probaby it is best to
turn them off anyway.

Should these files be uploaded to https://raw.pixls.us ?

Al

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org