Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
The reason I did the work on writing the article I wrote on wifi configuration for command line installs is not because command line does not configure wifi if that's all it can find. It's because the installer temporarily configures wifi long enough to install packages then wipes out necessary information from /etc/network/interfaces upon first boot. This only happens to wifi users not ethernet users. This was a long-running thread on the debian-user mailing list too. If you run a command line install and debian cannot find or configure your wifi you probably were using the stock debian install iso and may have better luck with the firmware debian iso. That firmware iso is unofficial and has some more wifi drivers on it which will for compatible systems bring up wifi temporarily during install. On Tue, 11 Dec 2018, Keith Barrett wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 12:47:00 > From: Keith Barrett > To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for > blind. > Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:47:15 + (UTC) > Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org > > > > On 10/12/2018 17:40, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > That isn't what I said. > > > > I was asking that a working CLI Installation be one of the options. > I would also like this. > I think having wifi configured during the install would solve most of the > issues here. > > > > > > There is still a lot of effort needed to get a working CLI system with > > basic console programs. > > > > It would greatly help those who need or want keyboard centered system. > > > > I forgive you for telling me what I meant, and then being wrong about it. > > > > The person has been using CLI systems for 20 years. > > > > Best regards, > > > > David > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 11:53 john doe > > >> On 12/10/2018 5:25 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with > >>> speech for blind users who want CLI system? > >>> > >>> Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to > >>> come up with a useful system. > >>> > >>> One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is > >>> excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or > >>> with smxi script. > >>> > >>> With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. > >>> > >>> One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed > >>> with the current CLI install. > >>> > >>> Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which > >>> has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. > >>> > >>> A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console > >>> wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand > >>> with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. > >>> > >> > >> I'm assuming that by the CLI you mean 'console mode'. > >> > >> Debian is fully accessible using the CLI during and after installation. > >> The option "install with speatch" is to be selected at install time, > >> when installed exporting the en 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline' will help > >> using the CLI. > >> > >> >From what you are describing, it souns like the user needs to learn the > >> CLI rather then the CLI not being accessible with 'espeakup'. > >> > >> -- > >> John Doe > >> > >> > > > > > --
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
On 11/12/2018 21:08, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > I don't think I could survive without a premade configuration if it was my > first time with Linux. I went from GUI to CLI after I found that with > Linux you could still accomplish nearly everything on the command line, and > never guess at what a mouse was doing. This shows that you are young The first time I used a computer (more than forty years ago) the was neither mouse nor graphical environment. Then, they appeared, and productivity decreased... Best, Didier
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
How do we tell the people that make the net install firmware CD and the Live CD that they should have a I think the latest net install CD was broken, I had Ethernet access but not WiFi access, so I had to use the previous build. I believe a base of a Live Debian CD with Firmware that results in a working and talking and brailing installation for command line with enough applications to use command line for any user would be excellent. Add a working emacs and emacspeak from GIT and you'd hit it out of the park. AntiX has a command line stream player populated with lots of streams from NPR and others. I forget the name of it, it's in the AntiX repos. Maybe it's called tinyradio: https://github.com/antiX-Linux/antix-goodies/blob/master/bin/tinyradio The URL's for tinyradio are here: https://github.com/antiX-Linux/antix-goodies/blob/master/radiolist I made a CLI version of AntiX and it worked very well. I also installed emacs and emacspeak from git. It uses Debian repositories. I started with AntiX core: http://mirrors.rit.edu/mxlinux/mx-isos/ANTIX/Final/antiX-17.2/antiX-17.2.1_x64-core.iso But the idea is to have something for a visually impaired user to just either run from USB stick, CD or to i install to hard drive, perhaps along side the "other" operating system. I think having this as a basic building block along with metascripts to install GNOME, or KDE, or MATE, or other Desktop would be just awesome. Of course, if some developer were to make scripts to set up mail using gmail, aol, or other email provider for mutt, and alpine, it would be very good. I don't think I could survive without a premade configuration if it was my first time with Linux. I went from GUI to CLI after I found that with Linux you could still accomplish nearly everything on the command line, and never guess at what a mouse was doing. Best wishes, David On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 2:27 PM Michael A Ray wrote: > > > > nmcli is part of the network-manager package which, I believe, is > installed by default. > > It is a very good command line network tool. > > > > > On 11/12/2018 18:05, john doe wrote: > > On 12/11/2018 7:00 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > >> Wifi Drivers are available in the unofficial Debian iso files. > >> > >> Unfortunately, a Live CD with just Command Line Installation isn't > >> available - that would be so nice if it were. > >> > >> So we have to use the net install CD with firmware. > >> > https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/ > >> > >> The CD image itself is 326 MB: > >> > https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso > >> > >> I don't remember if this CD image had a bug in it, but I had to use an > >> older CD that didn't have the bug in the firmware that I needed for > WiFi. > >> > >> Again, if anyone has the ears of the people who make the Debian CDs, it > >> would be great to have a CD that installed a command line system, > including > >> sound, networking, and mail and web browsing. > >> > >> Web: w3m, lynx, elinks, links2 (works with framebuffer in color) an ftp > >> client, irssi for IRC, wodim for making CDs and the files for DVDs, > alpine, > >> mutt for mail, and so forth. > >> > > > > Preseed file can do that. > > > > > -- > Michael A. Ray > Analyst/Programmer > Witley, Surrey, South-east UK > > "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when > there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery > > https://cromarty.github.io/ > http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/ > http://www.raspberryvi.org/ > > >
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
nmcli is part of the network-manager package which, I believe, is installed by default. It is a very good command line network tool. On 11/12/2018 18:05, john doe wrote: > On 12/11/2018 7:00 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: >> Wifi Drivers are available in the unofficial Debian iso files. >> >> Unfortunately, a Live CD with just Command Line Installation isn't >> available - that would be so nice if it were. >> >> So we have to use the net install CD with firmware. >> https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/ >> >> The CD image itself is 326 MB: >> https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso >> >> I don't remember if this CD image had a bug in it, but I had to use an >> older CD that didn't have the bug in the firmware that I needed for WiFi. >> >> Again, if anyone has the ears of the people who make the Debian CDs, it >> would be great to have a CD that installed a command line system, including >> sound, networking, and mail and web browsing. >> >> Web: w3m, lynx, elinks, links2 (works with framebuffer in color) an ftp >> client, irssi for IRC, wodim for making CDs and the files for DVDs, alpine, >> mutt for mail, and so forth. >> > > Preseed file can do that. > -- Michael A. Ray Analyst/Programmer Witley, Surrey, South-east UK "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery https://cromarty.github.io/ http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/ http://www.raspberryvi.org/
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
F123Light does something similar to what you are describing, but we do it using Arch Linux and specifically for the Raspberry Pi. I will update our documentation and share a page url under this email thread in case anybody is interested. We also have a bash script called configure-wifi which might be of interest, and might work well outside of Arch. Fernando On 12/11/2018 04:00 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Wifi Drivers are available in the unofficial Debian iso files. Unfortunately, a Live CD with just Command Line Installation isn't available - that would be so nice if it were. So we have to use the net install CD with firmware. https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/ The CD image itself is 326 MB: https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso I don't remember if this CD image had a bug in it, but I had to use an older CD that didn't have the bug in the firmware that I needed for WiFi. Again, if anyone has the ears of the people who make the Debian CDs, it would be great to have a CD that installed a command line system, including sound, networking, and mail and web browsing. Web: w3m, lynx, elinks, links2 (works with framebuffer in color) an ftp client, irssi for IRC, wodim for making CDs and the files for DVDs, alpine, mutt for mail, and so forth. It seems like a logical place to start. Those who have some vision or who want X Windows can install the Graphical Interface. Those who want keyboard centered system and don't want visual interface can use command line. Best wishes, David On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:47 PM Keith Barrett mailto:li...@barrettpianos.co.uk>> wrote: I would also like this. I think having wifi configured during the install would solve most of the issues here.
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
On 12/11/2018 7:00 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > Wifi Drivers are available in the unofficial Debian iso files. > > Unfortunately, a Live CD with just Command Line Installation isn't > available - that would be so nice if it were. > > So we have to use the net install CD with firmware. > https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/ > > The CD image itself is 326 MB: > https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso > > I don't remember if this CD image had a bug in it, but I had to use an > older CD that didn't have the bug in the firmware that I needed for WiFi. > > Again, if anyone has the ears of the people who make the Debian CDs, it > would be great to have a CD that installed a command line system, including > sound, networking, and mail and web browsing. > > Web: w3m, lynx, elinks, links2 (works with framebuffer in color) an ftp > client, irssi for IRC, wodim for making CDs and the files for DVDs, alpine, > mutt for mail, and so forth. > Preseed file can do that. -- John Doe
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
Wifi Drivers are available in the unofficial Debian iso files. Unfortunately, a Live CD with just Command Line Installation isn't available - that would be so nice if it were. So we have to use the net install CD with firmware. https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/ The CD image itself is 326 MB: https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso I don't remember if this CD image had a bug in it, but I had to use an older CD that didn't have the bug in the firmware that I needed for WiFi. Again, if anyone has the ears of the people who make the Debian CDs, it would be great to have a CD that installed a command line system, including sound, networking, and mail and web browsing. Web: w3m, lynx, elinks, links2 (works with framebuffer in color) an ftp client, irssi for IRC, wodim for making CDs and the files for DVDs, alpine, mutt for mail, and so forth. It seems like a logical place to start. Those who have some vision or who want X Windows can install the Graphical Interface. Those who want keyboard centered system and don't want visual interface can use command line. Best wishes, David On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:47 PM Keith Barrett wrote: > > I would also like this. > I think having wifi configured during the install would solve most of the issues here.
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
On 10/12/2018 17:40, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: That isn't what I said. I was asking that a working CLI Installation be one of the options. I would also like this. I think having wifi configured during the install would solve most of the issues here. There is still a lot of effort needed to get a working CLI system with basic console programs. It would greatly help those who need or want keyboard centered system. I forgive you for telling me what I meant, and then being wrong about it. The person has been using CLI systems for 20 years. Best regards, David On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 11:53 john doe On 12/10/2018 5:25 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: Hello, Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with speech for blind users who want CLI system? Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to come up with a useful system. One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or with smxi script. With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed with the current CLI install. Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. I'm assuming that by the CLI you mean 'console mode'. Debian is fully accessible using the CLI during and after installation. The option "install with speatch" is to be selected at install time, when installed exporting the en 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline' will help using the CLI. >From what you are describing, it souns like the user needs to learn the CLI rather then the CLI not being accessible with 'espeakup'. -- John Doe
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
That isn't what I said. I was asking that a working CLI Installation be one of the options. There is still a lot of effort needed to get a working CLI system with basic console programs. It would greatly help those who need or want keyboard centered system. I forgive you for telling me what I meant, and then being wrong about it. The person has been using CLI systems for 20 years. Best regards, David On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 11:53 john doe On 12/10/2018 5:25 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with > > speech for blind users who want CLI system? > > > > Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to > > come up with a useful system. > > > > One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is > > excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or > > with smxi script. > > > > With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. > > > > One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed > > with the current CLI install. > > > > Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which > > has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. > > > > A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console > > wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand > > with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. > > > > I'm assuming that by the CLI you mean 'console mode'. > > Debian is fully accessible using the CLI during and after installation. > The option "install with speatch" is to be selected at install time, > when installed exporting the en 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline' will help > using the CLI. > > >From what you are describing, it souns like the user needs to learn the > CLI rather then the CLI not being accessible with 'espeakup'. > > -- > John Doe > >
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
On 12/10/2018 5:53 PM, john doe wrote: > On 12/10/2018 5:25 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with >> speech for blind users who want CLI system? >> >> Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to >> come up with a useful system. >> >> One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is >> excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or >> with smxi script. >> >> With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. >> >> One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed >> with the current CLI install. >> >> Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which >> has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. >> >> A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console >> wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand >> with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. >> > > I'm assuming that by the CLI you mean 'console mode'. > > Debian is fully accessible using the CLI during and after installation. > The option "install with speatch" is to be selected at install time, > when installed exporting the en 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline' will help > using the CLI. > I meant 'env DEBIAN_FRONTEND' and not 'en DEBIAN_FRONTEND'. -- John Doe
Re: Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
On 12/10/2018 5:25 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > Hello, > > Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with > speech for blind users who want CLI system? > > Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to > come up with a useful system. > > One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is > excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or > with smxi script. > > With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. > > One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed > with the current CLI install. > > Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which > has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. > > A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console > wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand > with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. > I'm assuming that by the CLI you mean 'console mode'. Debian is fully accessible using the CLI during and after installation. The option "install with speatch" is to be selected at install time, when installed exporting the en 'DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline' will help using the CLI. >From what you are describing, it souns like the user needs to learn the CLI rather then the CLI not being accessible with 'espeakup'. -- John Doe
Request for CLI espeak Install to have needed CLI programs for blind.
Hello, Is there someone to ask to see if we can obtain a basic CLI system with speech for blind users who want CLI system? Using the Debian installer, there still is a lot of effort to be done to come up with a useful system. One shortcoming is an easy way to configure WiFi networks. Ceni is excellent but it's not in Debian repos, but in AntiX based on Debian or with smxi script. With smxi you can install browsers and editors easily. One bug that's a real pain is that somehow ldconfig doesn't get installed with the current CLI install. Arch Linux has a CLI install that's ready to go but it's not Debian which has it's advantages of it's own especially with stability. A CLI accessible installation CD would be a real asset. An easy console wifi setup would also help. Ceni works but it's difficult to understand with screen reader because it uses curses graphics. Best wishes, David
