Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Frans Pop wrote: > On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > 2. Can console-setup-udeb expect that /proc/bus/usb is mounted? Is > > there some dependency about this? > > For 2.6.29 and 2.6.30 you can't depend on it being mounted. See > usb-kbd.c in kbd-chooser; again

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > I have some questions: > 1. Can console-setup-udeb expect that /proc is mounted? Is there some > dependency about this? /proc is guaranteed to be mounted in D-I. > 2. Can console-setup-udeb expect that /proc/bus/usb is mounted? Is > there some depen

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 07:32:39PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > > > Should I add one additional question or preseeding is enough? > > No, you need to implement automatic detection for this case. > > Please see kbd-chooser.c. It's not all that hard to find the code, nor > should it be all that har

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Frans Pop wrote: > On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 06:03:21PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > > On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:55:28PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > > > > But I think i

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 06:03:21PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:55:28PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > > > But I think it is preferable to configure the keyboard of the >

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 06:03:21PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:55:28PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > > But I think it is preferable to configure the keyboard of the host > > > even if its keyboard is not used during the i

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:55:28PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > But I think it is preferable to configure the keyboard of the host > > even if its keyboard is not used during the installation. > > I wrote this about installs on serial console, not

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 04:55:28PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > > But I think it is preferable to configure the keyboard of the host even > if its keyboard is not used during the installation. I wrote this about installs on serial console, not about UML installs. Anton Zinoviev -- To UNSUB

Re: Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-29 Thread Anton Zinoviev
Console-setup changed a lot since the long mail of Frans Pop. I will make an upload as soon as the current package migrates to testing. In the following I am summarizing some of the changes. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 05:59:02PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > > Size impact > --- 1. T

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-29 Thread Frans Pop
On Monday 29 June 2009, Colin Watson wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:05:22PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > On Sunday 28 June 2009, Colin Watson wrote: > > > I think we should stop asking this question entirely. Hardly anyone > > > really needs anything other than pc105, except for the Brazilian >

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-29 Thread Colin Watson
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:05:22PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Sunday 28 June 2009, Colin Watson wrote: > > I think we should stop asking this question entirely. Hardly anyone > > really needs anything other than pc105, except for the Brazilian and > > Japanese cases that can be derived automatica

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 03:05:22PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Sunday 28 June 2009, Colin Watson wrote: > > I think we should stop asking this question entirely. Hardly anyone > > really needs anything other than pc105, except for the Brazilian and > > Japanese cases that can be derived automatica

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 01:00:19PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > I would just call it the "American English" layout versus the "Dutch" > layout. After all, that's what they are. > And you'd probably need to offer some additional choices: > - American English layout with € on 5 key > - American Englis

Reformulation of criticisms about console-setup switch (was: Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long])

2009-06-28 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Frans Pop (elen...@planet.nl): > On Tuesday 02 June 2009, Christian Perrier wrote: > > One of the release goals of Debian Installer for squeeze is dropping > > the use of console-data keyboard mappings, to replace them by > > console-setup [1]. > > Here are (finally) the results of my test

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 14:36:25 +0200, a écrit : > On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > > In that case there really _should_ be a "Netherlands - Dvorak" layout > > > as well. > > > > If someone could implement the dutch dvorak, sure. Remember that dvorak > > is per-language. Yo

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Colin Watson wrote: > I think we should stop asking this question entirely. Hardly anyone > really needs anything other than pc105, except for the Brazilian and > Japanese cases that can be derived automatically from the keyboard > layout anyway. How appropriate is pc105 as

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > In that case there really _should_ be a "Netherlands - Dvorak" layout > > as well. > > If someone could implement the dutch dvorak, sure. Remember that dvorak > is per-language. You can always use the english dvorak for Dutch, but > that's not effi

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 13:45:33 +0200, a écrit : > On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 13:00:19 +0200, a ?crit : > > > BTW, I would expect there are people in NL using Dvorak, but it's not > > > being offered as a choice there... > > > > Because x

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
(resending for proper threading) On Sunday 28 June 2009, you wrote: > Now _that_ I could understand. The origin question should really only > be displayed if someone chooses "other" from the country-specific > variant list. But even then I find the "origin" prompt confusing, especially because p

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, you wrote: > Now _that_ I could understand. The origin question should really only > be displayed if someone chooses "other" from the country-specific > variant list. But even then I find the "origin" prompt confusing, especially because people are used to selecting a layo

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 13:00:19 +0200, a ?crit : > > BTW, I would expect there are people in NL using Dvorak, but it's not > > being offered as a choice there... > > Because xkb doesn't have that layout. Do you mean that xkb has a _separate_

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Samuel Thibault, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 11:59:26 +0200, a écrit : > Another way I had thought about would be to first show a list of all > the keyboards known to be used by the combination of country/language > given at the localechooser stage, Note: there is enough information in xkb-data to achieve

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 13:00:19 +0200, a écrit : > BTW, I would expect there are people in NL using Dvorak, but it's not > being offered as a choice there... Because xkb doesn't have that layout. > > > 5) Dutch people very much *do* still type accented characters. > > > > ERrr, really? Th

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > I know the situation. What I'm talking about is this: > > 3) Both Dutch keymaps and American English keymaps are in use, but > > the Dutch ones are a relatively small minority. > > 4) If one of the variants currently listed under "Netherlands" really

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello, Frans Pop, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 09:09:20 +0200, a écrit : > > http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21046 > > Could NL people comment on the bug? > > Eh, I *am* an NL person... I know. > I thought I'd already made my comments clear and explained the Dutch > situation. I know the sit

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Frans Pop wrote: > Eh, I *am* an NL person... I thought I'd already made my comments clear > and explained the Dutch situation. Both in this thread and the BR from > Kurt about Altgr (#524235). > > 1) Some time ago I set the default in c-s for NL to 'us' (r58049). > 2) "Orig

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-28 Thread Frans Pop
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > > I have no idea what the difference between "Netherlands" and > > > "Netherlands - Standard" is. Such problems have to be reported > > > upstream. > > > > There are a fair number of differences between those two variants in > > /usr/share/X11/xkb

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-27 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello, Colin Watson, le Sat 27 Jun 2009 23:57:54 +0100, a écrit : > > > If "Netherlands" is selected I get the layout question with: > > >Netherlands > > >Netherlands - Macintosh > > >Netherlands - Standard > > >Netherlands - Sun dead keys > > > OK, the last 3 should probably not b

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-27 Thread Colin Watson
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 09:27:48PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:40:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > 2. The totally insane /usr/share/c-s-mini/c-s.config file > > - > > With no disrespect intended to Anton or Samuel

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-27 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 11:08:25PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > > > 1. Package size - impact on initrd size and memory usage > > Both the way they are implemented and the total number of strings. > > [...] > > It still leaves the problem that several mechanisms D-I won't work. One of > them is rem

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-27 Thread Frans Pop
On Friday 26 June 2009, Anton Zinoviev wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:40:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > 1. Package size - impact on initrd size and memory usage > > I suppose this is because of the way translations are currently > implemented. The keymaps of c-s require significantly less s

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-26 Thread Samuel Thibault
Anton Zinoviev, le Fri 26 Jun 2009 21:27:48 +0300, a écrit : > > Let's have a look (I hope I counted correctly): > > 1) keyboard model, ~150 options ... WTF? > > I don't know. They correspond to the variety of keyboards with additional keys. For instance, my "Internet" keyboard has a few navigati

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-26 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:40:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > 1. Package size - impact on initrd size and memory usage I suppose this is because of the way translations are currently implemented. The keymaps of c-s require significantly less space than those of kbd-chooser. > 2. The totally

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-25 Thread Frans Pop
On Wednesday 24 June 2009, Frans Pop wrote: > The totally insane /usr/share/c-s-mini/c-s.config file > -- > The current solution seems to me to be a case of "we didn't know how to > do it correctly, so we just took an easy way out". But maybe Samu

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-24 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Frans Pop (elen...@planet.nl): > Well, that's it. Kind of weird to have to spend most of the day to write > down what was found in 15 minutes of testing... Just a quick comment (mostly because I'll be away for the week-end and don't want to leave the impression that this big mail is ign

Re: Review of console-setup wrt D-I [very long]

2009-06-24 Thread Frans Pop
On Tuesday 02 June 2009, Christian Perrier wrote: > One of the release goals of Debian Installer for squeeze is dropping > the use of console-data keyboard mappings, to replace them by > console-setup [1]. Here are (finally) the results of my tests. Sorry for the delay; I will explain the reason