a bunch of things much easier (such as patching
Javascript for security vulnerabilities, which I expect to be an
increasing issue as the free software ecosystem uses Javascript more and
more heavily).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
kage I still maintain, sort of.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
a tradeoff with freshness of security updates. Personally, I usually
use an in-house mirror of security.debian.org for various reasons, and
it's worth noting that our "discouraging" isn't particularly aggressive.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
nodes, just relays and the onion service system.
> https://onion.debian.org/
> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/mirror/dsa-puppet.git/tree/modules/onion
Oh, interesting, thank you. I hadn't realized that. That definitely
makes Tor more attractive.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
of "why not?". We should encrypt reportbug traffic
too, if we can. Yes, a lot of the details get exposed at the other end
anyway (although not necessarily), but it's usually fairly trivial to
encrypt links, and if it is, there's basically no reason not to.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Adrian Bunk <b...@stusta.de> writes:
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 07:28:23PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>>...
>> The value of HTTPS lies in its protection against passive snooping. Given
>> the sad state of the public CA infrastructure, you cannot really protect
>&g
ve and *far* riskier step of moving to active
interference with traffic, neither of which nation-state attackers want to
do and neither of which they have the resources to do *routinely*.
It won't help if a nation-state actor is targeting you *in particular*.
But it helps immensely against dragnet survei
*how* you use it, etc.). By comparison, the work for TLS is all on the
project's part, and then the end user just gets the benefit for nearly
free.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
to
possible packages.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:44:18 -0700
Source: libpam-krb5
Binary: libpam-krb5
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.7-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
this is a marker of something
much deeper and much darker than just a trivial mistake.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics for those
unfamiliar with this term.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Description:
libnet-remctl-perl - Perl client for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremctl-dev - Development files for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremct
ople expect to see as a result when that's
the tone of the discussion?
I think people are trying to express a lot of frustration, so I'm trying
to be sympathetic, but that doesn't mean I think this type of criticism is
warranted, constructive, or a reasonable way to treat other people.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
turn into a second job.
(And yes, that means that we should be much more open to NMUs and change
our historical baggage around that. Please NMU my packages if there are
bugs I'm not getting to! Although ideally talk to me first, since there
may be design reasons why I didn't fix the bug, not just
se packages. But for something like
GNOME, it's unrealistic to expect much resolution of bugs only in stable
unless they're particularly severe.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e bug submitter,
which are later dashed. This is just bad all around, and it leads to a
lack of trust in the long run.
If no one is ever going to look at the bug again, just close it. It feels
more confrontational, but it's far more honest, and it doesn't create
unrealistic expectations. (Obviously, try to do this politely and
constructively!)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ngelog
entry. Anything other than that would require reading the bug log to
understand what happened.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
The only
thing I promise is that it won't *intentionally* do harm. If those terms
make it unacceptable for you (and I completely understand the concern over
dependence), please, I beg of you, don't use it!
I don't want you to think that I'm promising any of those things and then
become upset later w
r their time to continue to help you just because they have in
the past. Instead, please treat gifts as gifts, accept them for what they
are at the time, and don't assume that just because someone has given you
gifts in the past that you have any right to gifts in the future as well.
Otherwise, othe
ver my priorities and the requirement to do a lot
of unenjoyable, tedious work to achieve things I don't care about at all.
When I do volunteer work in my free time, I am not bound by any of those
restrictions. That's *why* I do it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
unstable and not testing.
If they do that, they will have to deal with problems like this. Comes
with the territory.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
sues that could result in apt giving up on
an upgrade instead of finding the correct solution, or if the bug breaks
the package in some invisible but dangerous way (data loss, for instance).
In those cases, I might consider a versioned dependency to as an aid. But
I think it's something t
problem does exist.
Okay. Well, I think this is just obviously incorrect, so I suppose we're
at an impasse. But thank you for the explanation!
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
e have, and we're just trying to be explicit about what we
can and can't do rather than having people's bug reports quietly disappear
with no response.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
n that we will. It's simply not a goal of the project nor is it
something we have resources to do.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
We should not retain bugs that do not help us
achieve that. It would be great if it could also be a user support
channel, but this is just unachievable for a volunteer-maintained
distribution like Debian, and we should avoid creating the impression that
we promise to do this.
--
Russ All
ys get frustrated when we close bugs to general as
unactionable. Maybe we're just creating an attractive nuisance and should
shut it down entirely to avoid that frustration?
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
effort. Please let's
not pick fights that *aren't* worth the effort and will cause upstream to
look at us like we're paranoid nit-pickers. This sort of thing is really
bad for cooperation with other projects.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Vincent Lefevre <vinc...@vinc17.net> writes:
> On 2016-09-08 08:44:54 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> That's a little better but not a lot better. It means that it's still
>> unsafe to run any script out of a world-writeable directory such as
>> /tmp, even if the st
since this
is something to which the package maintainer should bring nuance and
deeper understanding, so you want the wiggle room of should).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
re I
was relying on this behavior and hadn't realized I was).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ividual packages
than it is for large sets of team-maintained packages where you're more
likely to change Policy-related things across all packages at once.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Jakub Wilk <jw...@debian.org> writes:
> * Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>, 2016-09-07, 09:26:
>> Now, that said, assuming that "fail" is not a valid host in the local
>> domain isn't a good assumption and makes the build fragile. My packages
>> that perfo
ng build" policy thing (though I can imagine
> it'd be harder to file the bug).
"normal" is the correct severity, IMO. Even "important" strikes me as
significant severity inflation. And it would need a real justification as
to why this is a privacy concern, since typically
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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.3.4-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@d
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Architecture: source all
Version: 0.20-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ A
Marc Haber <mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de> writes:
> Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> wrote:
>> Debian historically tries to handle these situations by just providing
>> everything simultaneously. The debate over init systems is as heated
>> as it is because it's
than the
other in all respects.
Debian historically tries to handle these situations by just providing
everything simultaneously. The debate over init systems is as heated as
it is because it's quite difficult to do a good job at supporting multiple
init systems.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
d we should be connoisseurs of good ideas, whatever their
source.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Vincent Bernat <ber...@debian.org> writes:
> ❦ 29 août 2016 05:00 CEST, Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> :
>> upstart supports a similar mechanism via the -Z flag, but it's (IMO) a
>> little less clean: the process sends itself a SIGSTOP when it's ready,
>> a
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <j.deboynepollard-newsgro...@ntlworld.com>
writes:
> Russ Allbery:
>> All other init systems except upstart [...]
> Psst!
> * https://jdebp.eu./FGA/unix-daemon-readiness-protocol-problems.html#Choice
I think that... says the same thing I said? A
BIND
may have done something similar even earlier.)
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
eally a better solution than the other available options (which, to be
clear, I also support as upstream, because that's my general philosophy on
such things).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ou will ever achieve from recompiling
things to remove small dependencies like libsystemd over your entire
lifetime.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil, to quote Knuth.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
cted to spin up a test system just to be sure things don't break. But
the ask was to not explicitly yank support (that isn't unfixably broken)
and to merge reasonable fixes, and of course like any packaging quality
issue the more that you're willing to do, the more awesome that makes
Debian for sys
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Description:
libnet-remctl-perl - Perl client for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremctl-dev - Development files for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremct
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Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 14:27:28 -0700
Source: tf5
Binary: tf5
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.0beta8-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@d
into pathological performance from using
swap.
Desktops and laptops are obviously a different issue with different
tradeoffs.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:25:36 -0700
Source: lbcd
Binary: lbcd
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.5.2-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@d
e for multiple months under XFS, and have
not seen any of those problems with ext4.
Some of those bugs have been patched in XFS implementations in newer
kernels, but I think ext4 is a better conservative choice given the
history.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Version: 1.05.002-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
uses OpenSSL heavily and makes extensive use of its less common
corners may require quite a bit of work. (I think most of it is
mechanical, but lots of mechanical changes are also high-risk because
they're mind-numbing and it's easy to make a small mistake that slips
through unnoticed.)
--
Russ All
of an argument
in which no one has said anything new for a year, people will just stop
using debian-devel to have discussions about anything even remotely
touching on init systems. That seems like a bad idea to me.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ages despite the fact that there's
no upstart package in Debian. If so, could you spell that out for those
of us who didn't figure it out?
(For the record, I concur with Tollef's earlier comment that there's no
need to go fast with removing these and it can wait until after the next
release.)
its.
I don't really buy the performance argument for nearly all software.
Reading a file from disk isn't very slow, and for *most* software this
isn't a hugely frequent operation. (There are certainly cases where it
would be an issue, but in most of those cases it's already a better idea
to cache the
ly deployed behind firewalls.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Marc Haber <mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de> writes:
> On Wed, 11 May 2016 10:18:05 -0700, Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> wrote:
>> NEWS.Debian was the solution created for that problem, and it's not
>> bad. It can be a bit too verbose in a few cases, but it's alm
ost always worth
reading carefully.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Description:
libnet-remctl-perl - Perl client for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremctl-dev - Development files for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremct
etting the package maintainer choose which to ship based on
the reasons why people actually *want* static versions of that library.
And if no one ever wants them, no one has to go to the work of making
them and we don't have to ship them around to lots of mirrors.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)
Tollef Fog Heen <tfh...@err.no> writes:
> ]] Russ Allbery
>> I think a more correct fix would (unfortunately) involve a new binary
>> package field that we don't currently have: Depends-Shallow (for lack
>> of a better term) that acts like Depends *except* disabl
NADD.
You don't have to be a Debian Developer to make a Policy proposal, just to
second.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
weak security, but it's good for defense in depth and
making the constant brute force attacks die down a bit.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
issues of packaging health without getting into the very
risky business of reading other people's minds.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
it's a feature or a bug, but it's
certainly interesting.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Version: 1.05.000-8
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
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Source: gnubg
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Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 1.05.000-7
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
ood for our users. Even if the effect of this change
> is very minor, we should show them that it should be the default
> everywhere.
+1
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
unity to get some space and think hard about what you most enjoy
working on, and the freedom to refocus on those things.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Version: 1.05.000-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
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Version: 1.05.000-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
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Version: 1.05.000-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
libbsd is
available, I think that would go a long way towards helping us actually
achieve this.
Even better, of course, would be to get glibc to take the interface, since
then all one needs is the Autoconf probes. But I'm not sure how practical
that really is.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
pkg-shibboleth-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Description:
liblog4shib-dev - log4j-style configurable logging library for C++
(development)
liblog4shib-doc - log4j-style configurable logging library for C++ (API docs)
liblog4shib1v5 - log4j-style
form of bug reports and
patches, just as with any other non-default configuration in Debian. Your
obligation as maintainer is to "merge reasonable contributions" as
mentioned above.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
other archive management
tools do not. aptly, for example, is perfectly happy to manage multiple
versions of the same package, and dpkg-scanpackages doesn't care.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> Russ Allbery writes ("Re: support for merged /usr in Debian"):
>> What will kill Debian faster than anything else is to have every idea
>> for changing something large, interesting, or possibly revolutionary
nd creative solutions, and try to preserve the
things they're excited about in their projects, rather than muffling them
in layers of obstructionism. We need excited people and enthusiastic
people to make Debian something we can all be proud of.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)
ing at are better
security than X.509 CAs, for all the problems those have.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
usr and /?
I'm not sure I understand this reasoning.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
d before things start using it is mostly
separate from the question of whether we want to merge it with /bin and
/lib. This thread is more about the latter than the former. (Obviously,
mounting /usr early is a *prerequisite* for merging /bin and /lib with
/usr, which is why it comes
tinue to work if
invoked with an absolute /bin path.
Just as another reality check: I believe Red Hat has already done this.
Lots of people use Red Hat and derivatives, and there doesn't seem to have
been that much breakage.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Florian Lohoff <f...@zz.de> writes:
> On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 10:14:14AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> No. Debian has basically given up on this; there are way too many
>> packages and way too much stuff that would have to be moved to /bin and
>> /lib in order
usr early, it's
rather less important whether you actually merge the file systems. While
it does let you do some interesting things, I see it as more of a cleanup.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
I think it's correctly doing what it should in the
situation described in this thread.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Binary: kstart
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@d
tainly never removes a package another package Depends
on. Nothing will do that, without removing the depending package.
Enforcing that invariant is the whole *point* of apt.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Version: 1.05.000-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
ross the hooks before, and if you've not looked
at them, it might be worth your time at some point. You can do all sorts
of pretty awesome stuff. That's one of the ways etckeeper integrates with
apt, for instance.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
his is not only new since I noticed the above, but new since
> _now_.
Yes... that's what the words in the subject header of this thread mean?
The word "upcoming" was important. :)
The new version of apt-file (and therefore the new index handling) is, as
stated in the first message
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Version: 1.05.000-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allb
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Description:
libnet-remctl-perl - Perl client for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremctl-dev - Development files for Kerberos-authenticated command execution
libremct
libpcre-v2-dev. Hopefully people
will be able to find it.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Cs
linux-headers-4.1.0-2-amd64 - Header files for Linux 4.1.0-2-amd64
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
ies.
The problem with sysvinit was historically that there wasn't a simple user
interface to enable and disable scripts in a way that was preserved across
upgrades, but that was added quite some time ago.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:45:52 -0700
Source: libpam-afs-session
Binary: libpam-afs-session
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.6-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org>
Changed-By
m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:
> Is there any point in (formally?) maintaining LSB compatibility? Is
> there any proprietary application that does actually benefit from it in
> the real world?
LSB seems pretty dead. I'm dubious there's much point in investing effort
in this.
Andreas Tscharner <starf...@sunrise.ch> writes:
> On 12.09.2015 21:23, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I've been able to upgrade normally during the entire gcc-5 transition.
> Lucky you!
> aptitude wanted to remove 45 packages yesterday. I spent about 5 hours to
> manua
grades, it often helps the resolver to
run apt-get upgrade to completion first, repeatedly if necessary until it
doesn't find more to do, and then try dist-upgrade. Often the resolver
does better with less variables to try to track.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
s sort of transition that way. Sorry. But
the bright side is that I think the problems you're seeing are either due
to specific problems with specific packages you have installed, or
possibly just from not using apt-get the best way, since I didn't see
anything like the problems you're reporting at any poi
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