On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 10:45:13PM -0400, Adam Di Carlo wrote:
Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Okay, if nobody objects I will start implementing support for it in
boot-floppies (dbootstrap).
We already support all this. Please work with what we have - don't
reinvent the wheel.
Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Okay, if nobody objects I will start implementing support for it in
boot-floppies (dbootstrap).
We already support all this. Please work with what we have - don't
reinvent the wheel. We just need some help with the fonts, now, I
belive. Not sure if
Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] immo vero scripsit
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the user wants locales. Know
what? That question is being asked in english _anyway_.
Having a few well-known questions asked in English
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:19:01PM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] immo vero scripsit
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the user wants locales. Know
what? That question is being asked in
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Radovan Garabik wrote:
I have yet to meet a person who would ever need a slovak locale.
Nobody cares at all (collate order? who needs that? Different
format of numbers? This is not only unneeded, but even harmful.
Different format of date? Who cares.. Gettext? Maybe, but
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Santiago Vila wrote:
I never asked for a debconf interface (I explained in the bug report
But why not following Grisus suggestion?
In my opinion the problem is an obvious target for a debconf solution.
The user has just to press Enter one times:
Do you want locales
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:12:06AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:19:01PM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] immo vero scripsit
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the
#include hallo.h
Tille, Andreas wrote on Wed Sep 05, 2001 um 10:33:43AM:
In my opinion the problem is an obvious target for a debconf solution.
The user has just to press Enter one times:
Do you want locales [y/N]
I did also suggested an --install-locales option for debootstrap (and
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000 , Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
Does that mean it should always take a certain format irrespective of the
locale? If so, which format?
or number format. ie. in Czech decimal separator is `,' comma and in C it's
`.' dot. OK, now restart gnumeric in other
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:53:37PM +0200, Petr Cech wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000 , Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
Does that mean it should always take a certain format irrespective of the
locale? If so, which format?
or number format. ie. in Czech decimal separator is `,'
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Petr Cech wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000 , Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
Does that mean it should always take a certain format irrespective of the
locale? If so, which format?
or number format. ie. in Czech decimal separator is `,' comma and in C it's
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:23:34PM +0100, Nick Phillips wrote:
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:53:37PM +0200, Petr Cech wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000 , Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
Does that mean it should always take a certain format irrespective of the
locale? If so, which
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:20:33AM +1000, Brian May wrote:
Radovan == Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Radovan format is important but whoever designes his software to
Radovan display 8/1/63 should be shot, locale or no locale.
GNUmeric doesn't display the date in this
Le Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 12:03:19PM +0200, Santiago Vila écrivait:
Ooops! Sorry. The bug I refer is really #110980 (I happen to submit
two i18n-related bugs the same day and confused them).
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 08:56:54AM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:20:33AM +1000, Brian May wrote:
Radovan == Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Radovan format is important but whoever designes his software to
Radovan display 8/1/63 should be shot,
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 08:56:54AM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
GNUmeric doesn't display the date in this format (it is up to the user
to pick what format is used), BUT it does require entering dates in
MoiN
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 10:30:25PM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
Well, it still happens on upgrades because
dpkg stops to ask if a configuration file should be replaced or not.
Is this avoiable somehow?
Yes. Dpkg has the switches --force-confnew, --force-confold and
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ari Makela wrote:
Just about anyone who's not from English speaking countries. For
example, we Finns need 'åäö' and their capital versions. They just
don't work if you don't set locales right. If you take a look at even
just European languages you can see that most of
On Sep 03, Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well, the smallest country (Vatican) does not need 8-bit chars for Latin :-)
It does, since they speak italian, which needs accented letters.
I'm not sure if modern latin needs the latin accents which are in UTF-8.
--
ciao,
Marco
Radovan == Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Radovan On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000, Martijn van
Radovan Oosterhout wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 08:56:54AM +0200, Radovan Garabik
wrote:
GNUmeric doesn't display the date in this format (it is
Santiago Vila writes:
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
Just about anyone who's not from English speaking countries. For
On 20010903T022104+0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
[ See Bug #111008 for details ].
Looking at that bug, you are asking the wrong question. You should be asking
about the need for localized messages, not about the need for locales.
Most Finnish users use the fi_FI locale, but many still use English
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ari Makela wrote:
Santiago Vila writes:
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
Just about anyone who's
#include hallo.h
Santiago Vila wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 02:21:04AM:
I think we can consider the volume or the number of subscribers of the
debian-user mailing list, and compare it with the volume or the number
of subscribers of all other language-specific debian-user-foo lists
combined.
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:24:43AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
#include hallo.h
Santiago Vila wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 02:21:04AM:
I think we can consider the volume or the number of subscribers of the
debian-user mailing list, and compare it with the volume or the number
of
Ben Collins writes:
With an installed size of over 8megs, I don't think that is such a good
idea.
During the configuration phase we get a rough time zone
information. For example, I have
$ cat /etc/timezone
Europe/Helsinki
From this information it's possible to genereate the needed
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:16:25AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:24:43AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
#include hallo.h
Santiago Vila wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 02:21:04AM:
I think we can consider the volume or the number of subscribers of the
debian-user
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 10:22:12AM +0300, Ari Makela wrote:
Ben Collins writes:
With an installed size of over 8megs, I don't think that is such a good
idea.
During the configuration phase we get a rough time zone
information. For example, I have
$ cat /etc/timezone
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:25:04AM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:16:25AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:24:43AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
#include hallo.h
Santiago Vila wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 02:21:04AM:
I think we can
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:21:04AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
Hello.
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
I have yet to meet a
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:33:52AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:25:04AM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:16:25AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:24:43AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
I really wish to make the locales beeint
#include hallo.h
Ben Collins [DPL] wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 03:33:52AM:
maybe you don't use it, but a lot of user don't speak english or can't
understand it. We must support locales and if a user can't speak
english he pay this price.
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a
#include hallo.h
Michael Bramer wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 09:25:04AM:
maybe you don't use it, but a lot of user don't speak english or can't
understand it. We must support locales and if a user can't speak
english he pay this price.
I had another idea: integrate it into boot floppies
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 07:12:16AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ari Makela wrote:
Santiago Vila writes:
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:33:52AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
How do you define sane?
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the user wants locales. Know
what? That question is being asked in english _anyway_.
Which of
[ This was sent to Ben privately by accident; I'm resending it to the
list. ]
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:33:52AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the user wants locales. Know
what? That
Hi,
At Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:58:31 +0200,
Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
that is the point. You need to use 8-bit chars, not locales.
Unfortunately, i18n (flawed) approach is to use locale to
allow 8-bit chars.
I hope you don't forget about multibyte encodings.
Anyway,
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 05:06:21AM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 06:29:43PM +1000, Roger So wrote:
A universal OS (which we claim on our website), with dysfunctional
support for the language which the user speaks natively, even during the
installation phase, is insane
[ In reply to Henrique de Moraes ]
Ooops! Sorry. The bug I refer is really #110980 (I happen to submit
two i18n-related bugs the same day and confused them).
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify it but Ben does not agree
that
Ari Makela [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you take a look at even just European languages you can see that
most of them cannot be written with a-zA-Z. Actually, I think only
English can.
It can't here, if you want to refer to the local currency in the
conventional way.
--
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:39:57AM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
I have yet to meet a person who would ever need a slovak locale.
Nobody cares at all (collate order? who needs that? Different
format of numbers? This is not only unneeded, but even harmful.
Different format of date? Who
Santiago Vila wrote:
[ In reply to Henrique de Moraes ]
Ooops! Sorry. The bug I refer is really #110980 (I happen to submit
two i18n-related bugs the same day and confused them).
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify
Richard Kettlewell writes:
It can't here, if you want to refer to the local currency in the
conventional way.
I stand corrected. I've already been bashing myself because I wrote
Belgia (that's how it's written in Finnish but certainly not in
English).
I feel that the user should be able to
* Santiago Vila [Mon, 03/09/2001 at 12:03 +0200]
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify it
I agree :
- Almost all French users (and I think I can extrapolate: all the users
who need to read messages with non-ascii chars) need
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 12:55:53PM +0200, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote:
- It is clumsy to have to answer : No, keep the modified version each
time the package is updated.
that only happens if the file in the package has changed from the
installed version of the package. that is if
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:06:56PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
I mostly agree, LC_CTYPE is the main thing I'm interested in with locales,
except for one other thing. Date format is *very* important.
No, if it is unambiguous.
To explain, my parents' anniversary is 8/1/63. Shall I
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 07:46:16PM +1000, Roger So wrote:
The OS is operational without locales. Albeit, it lacks certain
I beg to disagree, that is it is operational in our sense of the term, yes,
but it is not operational for all those people not speaking enough english.
How would you feel if
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 12:55:53PM +0200, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote:
* Santiago Vila [Mon, 03/09/2001 at 12:03 +0200]
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify it
I agree :
- Almost all French users (and I think I can
On Mon, 03 Sep 2001, Ben Collins wrote:
This isn't a matter of not using it, it's a matter of a sane base
install. Perhaps base-config could ask if the user wants locales. Know
what? That question is being asked in english _anyway_.
No, it will not, at least not always. There are l10n
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 03:40:03AM -0800, Ethan Benson wrote:
that leaves the question to: how often is the default locale.gen file
altered in locales? i would guess not all that often, therefore your
not going to be asked about it very often.
It changes relatively often, actually.
--
You
3.09.2001 pisze Radovan Garabik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
but you have to realize one thing: they are not doing it because of
locale. They are doing it because they want to tell their
applications to pass 8-bit characters unaffected.
A quite elegant _theory_. Rather untrue. Falsified by me.
Jubal
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:34:58PM +0200, Miros/law Baran wrote:
3.09.2001 pisze Radovan Garabik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
but you have to realize one thing: they are not doing it because of
locale. They are doing it because they want to tell their
applications to pass 8-bit characters
Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jean-Marc Chaton wrote:
- Almost all French users (and I think I can extrapolate: all the
users who need to read messages with non-ascii chars) need to set
up a '/etc/locale.gen' to see them correctly for example with
mutt, and that even though
Okay, if nobody objects I will start implementing support for it in
boot-floppies (dbootstrap).
#include hallo.h
Eduard Bloch wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 09:49:37AM:
#include hallo.h
Michael Bramer wrote on Mon Sep 03, 2001 um 09:25:04AM:
maybe you don't use it, but a lot of user don't
Quite offtopic, but anyway...
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:54:30PM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:34:58PM +0200, Miros/law Baran wrote:
3.09.2001 pisze Radovan Garabik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
but you have to realize one thing: they are not doing it because of
At Mon, 03 Sep 2001 09:46:42 +0900,
Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote:
Estimating number of users from ML subscribers:
Since there are [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing lists whose
public language is Japanese, Japanese people tend to subscribe
them and don't subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] or even
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 11:54:29PM +1000, Roger So wrote:
Quite offtopic, but anyway...
discussion is about locales generally already...
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:54:30PM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
They hate, or at least are indifferent to having menus
in their native language. They
3.09.2001 pisze Radovan Garabik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
well, ok, that would work, but the point is that locale is bloated
and most people use just a few parts of it, parts that could be
achieved by other ways.
Locales have two big advantages: they exist and they are quite
consistent.
best
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 12:03:19PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify it but Ben does not agree
that people using locales is most people.
Recent copies (unless it was changed back to big file
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Oliver Elphick wrote:
Santiago Vila wrote:
[ In reply to Henrique de Moraes ]
Ooops! Sorry. The bug I refer is really #110980 (I happen to submit
two i18n-related bugs the same day and confused them).
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a
David Starner wrote:
Santiago Vila wrote:
The bug basically says /etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile
because most people will need to modify it but Ben does not agree
that people using locales is most people.
Recent copies (unless it was changed back to big file edition) are
blank,
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 07:55:52PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
Very rarely != never. If you put an /etc/locale.gen file which is
different than the default one before installing locales_2.2, dpkg
will still prompt about it.
Which will bite a few people running older versions of testing or
Santiago Vila [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
We are supposed to minimize the number of questions. If we can go
from very rarely to never, that's already a gain.
Actually that's something I've been meaning to ask for a while now.
debconf has made question-less installation possible or at least
David Starner wrote:
Santiago Vila wrote:
I never asked for a debconf interface (I explained in the bug report
(#110980) a possible way to do it and it would take just a few lines
of shell scripting). I just asked following policy.
And making it a conffile but not is a huge improvement?
Radovan == Radovan Garabik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
To explain, my parents' anniversary is 8/1/63. Shall I
congratulate them in August, or in January?
Radovan and is it 1863, 1963 or 2063? (just joking :-)) Yes, date
Radovan format is important but whoever designes his
Hello.
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
[ See Bug #111008 for details ].
I think we can consider the volume or the number of
Hi,
I think we can consider the volume or the number of subscribers of the
debian-user mailing list, and compare it with the volume or the number
of subscribers of all other language-specific debian-user-foo lists
combined. Is there anybody who can do this count?
Can you think of another
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:21:04AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
Hello.
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
[ See Bug #111008 for
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:46:42AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote:
Hi,
I think we can consider the volume or the number of subscribers of the
debian-user mailing list, and compare it with the volume or the number
of subscribers of all other language-specific debian-user-foo lists
On Mon, 03 Sep 2001, Santiago Vila wrote:
For the purposes of determining whether or not most users need to
change the /etc/locale.gen file Ben and I need an estimate of the
proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users.
That would be most non-english-speaking users, I
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