* Andreas Metzler:
It is just that an application may not link at the same time against
libnettle4 and libgnutls-deb0-28 3.3.15-5. Neither Debian nor afaik
any other major distribution supports this kind of complexity in its
dependency system (conditional dependencies).
And package
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 06:43:33PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
btw, please read up on bug severities. I consider filing this bug as
grave quite short of being offensive.
If you're genuinely offended by a bug submitter's choice of severity, it's time
to take a step back from the computer and get a
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net writes:
On 2015-06-16 09:12:36 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
There are a lot of really complex things you can do with versioning and
cases where that version number is meaningful, but for the vast
majority of libraries, I recommend not worrying about it and
Am 18. Juni 2015 03:54:56 MESZ, schrieb Russ Allbery r...@debian.org:
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net
Shared library symbol versioning makes the problem go away. Package
dependencies try to solve the problem at the wrong level.
The problem is rather that the package dependency system
Hendrik Sattler p...@hendrik-sattler.de writes:
Am 18. Juni 2015 03:54:56 MESZ, schrieb Russ Allbery r...@debian.org:
Shared library symbol versioning makes the problem go away. Package
dependencies try to solve the problem at the wrong level.
The problem is rather that the package
On 2015-06-16 09:12:36 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
There are a lot of really complex things you can do with versioning and
cases where that version number is meaningful, but for the vast majority
of libraries, I recommend not worrying about it and just always using some
simple transform of the
Hi!
On Tue, 2015-06-16 at 09:18:34 +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
There is not a lot of documentation about how to handle that from an
upstream point of view. There is the info page (section VERSION) of ld
about -version-script.
That's true, there's lots of information spread all over the
❦ 16 juin 2015 15:50 +0200, Guillem Jover guil...@debian.org :
In any case, barring better documentation or guides, using example
implementations simpler than glibc might be useful to people. So I
offer libbsd, but I'm sure there are many others. We could perhaps
even create a wiki page
On 2015-06-15 18:56:47 +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
[...]
(Bug 788710 shouldn't have been closed, but changed to something
like what bug 788735 says.)
[...]
No, it should not have been filed, since the same bug had been filed 5
times
Vincent Bernat ber...@debian.org writes:
In libbsd, I see that you started with LIBBSD_0.0. Does this mean libbsd
has always used symbol versioning? Otherwise, the start point would be
to use the previous SONAME (computed from the previous -version-info),
right?
There are a lot of really
On 2015-06-15 20:52:25 +0200, Magnus Holmgren wrote:
But libgnutls-deb0-28 technically doesn't break libnettle4, nor does
libnettle6. It's only certain combinations of three or more packages
that are broken, something the dependency system can't handle.
Then either the dependency system should
Guillem Jover wrote:
In any case, barring better documentation or guides, using example
implementations simpler than glibc might be useful to people. So I
offer libbsd, but I'm sure there are many others. We could perhaps
even create a wiki page listing some of those pointers.
libabc is a
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
On 2015-06-15 18:56:47 +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
[...]
No, it should not have been filed, since the same bug had been filed 5
times already.
No, this is *not* the same bug that was filed. The bugs that were
filed are claimed to be fixed in
❦ 15 juin 2015 20:20 -0700, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org :
To avoid confusing myself further, Russ and Neil, are you both talking
about the debian/symbols files? I thought Russ might have been
talking about versioned symbols at DSO level (e.g. symbol@LOW0 vs
symbol@LOW1).
I'm pretty sure
Niels Thykier ni...@thykier.net (2015-06-15):
On 2015-06-15 08:04, Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 13:26:26 -0700
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015, at 17:26, Russ Allbery wrote:
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say libhigh0, links to a
lower-level library, say liblow0
* we have an ABI transition from liblow0 to liblow1
*
Cyril Brulebois k...@debian.org writes:
Niels Thykier ni...@thykier.net (2015-06-15):
To avoid confusing myself further, Russ and Neil, are you both talking
about the debian/symbols files? I thought Russ might have been
talking about versioned symbols at DSO level (e.g. symbol@LOW0 vs
Felipe Sateler fsateler at debian.org writes:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 19:15:13 +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
Vincent Lefevre vincent at vinc17.net wrote:
Is the Debian dependency system broken?
[...]
No, but there is no way to *correctly* handle the problem with the
automatic depency
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 19:15:13 +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
Is the Debian dependency system broken?
[...]
No, but there is no way to *correctly* handle the problem with the
automatic depency mechanism. It is possible to use in some manual
kludge,
söndagen den 14 juni 2015 22.38.28 skrev Vincent Lefevre:
Well, there are two things that one wants to avoid:
1. Upgrading libgnutls-deb0-28 to a version using libnettle6 without
upgrading the packages that depend on libgnutls-deb0-28 and use
libnettle4. This is the problem I've
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
Is the Debian dependency system broken?
[...]
No, but there is no way to *correctly* handle the problem with the
automatic depency mechanism. It is possible to use in some manual
kludge, but not a correct one. libgnutls-deb0-28 3.3.15-5 does not
break or
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
[...]
(Bug 788710 shouldn't have been closed, but changed to something
like what bug 788735 says.)
[...]
No, it should not have been filed, since the same bug had been filed 5
times already.
cu Andreas
--
`What a good friend you are to him, Dr.
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 13:26:26 -0700
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say libhigh0, links to a
lower-level library, say liblow0
* we have an ABI transition from liblow0
On 2015-06-15 08:04, Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 13:26:26 -0700
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say libhigh0, links to a
lower-level library, say liblow0
*
On 14/06/15 17:19, Felipe Sateler wrote:
I think either libgnutls-deb0-28 or libnettle6 should add a Breaks:
libnettle4[1], to ensure all related packages are upgraded in lockstep.
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say libhigh0, links to a
lower-level
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 16:03:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=788710#10
Note that the problem still occurs on an available set of packages: just
start with a Debian/stable system (jessie) and upgrade libgnutls-deb0-28
to unstable (no
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 16:03:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre
vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
Normally, a well-designed dependency system should make sure that the
user cannot install an incorrect combination of packages (avoiding
segmentation faults and internal errors), e.g. during a partial
upgrade. But it
Hi,
Note that the problem still occurs on an available set of packages:
just start with a Debian/stable system (jessie) and upgrade
libgnutls-deb0-28 to unstable (no dependencies/conflicts will
yield an upgrade of wget, which will occasionally segfault).
well, then, obviously, the dependency
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org wrote:
[...]
One solution is to give the lower-level library versioned symbols, with
at least one unique version per SONAME. That's how libjpeg and libpng
avoid breaking lots of GUIs every time they bump SONAME, for instance.
[...]
FWIW this specific combination
On 2015-06-14 18:15:33 +0200, Dominik George wrote:
Hi,
Note that the problem still occurs on an available set of packages:
just start with a Debian/stable system (jessie) and upgrade
libgnutls-deb0-28 to unstable (no dependencies/conflicts will
yield an upgrade of wget, which will
On 2015-06-14 18:43:33 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 16:03:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre
vinc...@vinc17.net wrote:
Normally, a well-designed dependency system should make sure that the
user cannot install an incorrect combination of packages (avoiding
segmentation faults and
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
This is a recurring (anti-)pattern:
* an ABI-stable, high-level library, say libhigh0, links to a
lower-level library, say liblow0
* we have an ABI transition from liblow0 to liblow1
* liblow0 and liblow1 do not both have versioned symbols
And this
Hi Siomn,
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 05:50:02PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 14/06/15 17:19, Felipe Sateler wrote:
I think either libgnutls-deb0-28 or libnettle6 should add a Breaks:
libnettle4[1], to ensure all related packages are upgraded in lockstep.
This is a recurring
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