Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

2014-10-21 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 10/21/2014 01:34 AM, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: I mean, when I read that infamous guy, Poettering, talking about things like this: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html Actually, while the rest of your post isn't helpful (or even an annoyance), I'm happy

Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

2014-10-21 Thread Thorsten Glaser
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote: So, dear fellow DDs, I'm asking you: each time you see that an upstream author is breaking an ABI on a package you maintain, write an email to him/her, and explain how much this is bad and shouldn't happen. If the Unix community starts to realize how

Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

2014-10-21 Thread Konstantin Khomoutov
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:12:20 +0200 Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de wrote: So, dear fellow DDs, I'm asking you: each time you see that an upstream author is breaking an ABI on a package you maintain, write an email to him/her, and explain how much this is bad and shouldn't happen. If the

Re: containers/chroot to allow ABI breakage is the wrong approach (was: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =))

2014-10-21 Thread Matthias Urlichs
Hi, Thorsten Glaser: OpenBSD’s libc.so major number is 50 or something like that right now, because they – correctly – increment it on every incompatible change. Glibc has versioned symbols instead … This is not a problem because, you know, we have Open Source, so we can always just

Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ
Guys, I really do NOT want to start a flame war, I know that you guys are tired about this init subject appearing over and over... But, my turn...:-P *First things first: Why I'm with Debian / Ubuntu?* A.: Because *I like the work of Debian Maintainers* (you guys and gals, sirs and

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Axel Wagner
Hi, Martinx - ジェームズ thiagocmarti...@gmail.com writes: I really do NOT want to start a flame war This statement is evidently false or misguided. I'd love to leave it at that (see?), but: Linux Kernel Developers Fed Up With Ridiculous Bugs In Systemd:

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ
Sorry man... English isn't my native language, is hard for me to express myself in another language... But yes, those sources aren't the best but, there are more, you know. :-P Best! Thiago On 20 October 2014 15:55, Axel Wagner m...@merovius.de wrote: Hi, Martinx - ジェームズ

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Ondřej Surý
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014, at 19:34, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: I really do NOT want to start a flame war, I know that you guys are tired about this init subject appearing over and over... No, you wanted to add more oil on existing flamewars and you know it. If you don't want to start the flamewars,

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ
But I need to act (at least, say something) to preserve our distro and I cannot remain in silence. Sorry... This isn't intended to be fun. Cheers! Thiago On 20 October 2014 16:57, Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2014, at 19:34, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: I really do NOT want

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Ondřej Surý
If you have the unresistible urge to act, then go fix a bug. Or help with triaging the bugs - finding reproducible test case also helps. Turn that urge into something productive. Flaming in the mailing list isn't helpful, it's exactly the oposite. Cheers, Ondrej On Mon, Oct 20, 2014, at

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ
Okay, I agree with you. I just find two bugs when with systemd, I'll fill the bug reports. Those problems I'm seeing are reproducible. Please, forgive me, I don't want to make things worse, I just want to *express my concerns* about this systemd-situation... I'm with Debian because *it is

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Lee Winter
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org wrote: No, please don't. It's neither useful, productive nor funny. Actually your message is even worse. It isn't useful or productive. And it certainly isn't funny. But it is definitely censorious, which I, and I suspect many

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Paul Wise
Please do not use HTML mail on Debian lists. Please do not flame on Debian lists. https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: tried it without success, lots of bugs popped everywhere when

Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =)

2014-10-20 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ
Hey Paul, I really appreciate your feedback. Glad to see that at least, systemd in Debian have some boundaries. Whew! Tks! I'll try to disable html messages for all Debian Lists at my GMail account right now, sorry about that. Nevertheless, I'm not flaming (not my intention, really), I care