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These days, the next stable release of debian is being packaged. It
will as usual also be released on CDs, and the current CD count is 13
binary CDs filled with approximately 13500 packages. And to
distribute these packages on the 13 CDs, we need
[Nathanael Nerode]
It's a pity the DPL hasn't anointed a less-busy person with
authority to alter the keyring.
I suspect and hope the DPL try to reason with the people in question
first, before the DPL wields his authority and push the current holder
of privileged positions aside, as a power
[Thijs Kinkhorst]
If package foo-data is useless when foo is not installed, foo-data
should depend on package foo. This follows from policy manual 7.2: The
Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for
the depending package to provide a significant amount of
[Gabor Gombas]
I'm thinking that it would be very useful to redirect stderr to a
file (say /var/log/boot/pacakge.error). It happens far too often
that the error message scrolls off the screen, then
fonty/gdm/etc. starts making scrolling back impossible.
There are ideas to send boot messages
[Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt]
I'd like to know if anyone cares about using these binary signatures
I can not really say if I care or not, as I do not really know what
these binary signatures are. Care to send URL to pages explaining the
topic?
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[Josselin Mouette]
I started my implication in the project four years ago. For four
years, there have been problems with keyring maintenance and buildd
administration. For four years, people responsible for these tasks
have refused help on these matters. For four years, everything that
was
[Marc Haber]
Acknowledged. Debian might have problems, but NEW queue processing
surely isn't one of them (any more).
I agree that the NEW processing is working quite well these days, and
is no longer the source of much frustration in debian. The
ftp-masters are doing a great job processing
[Thaddeus H. Black]
3. If James' imperial rules are unacceptable to us, then the
alternative is to change the person in James' position. It has
been years since any other option was credible. We all know
this. This means dismissing James from his fortified posts of
[Marco d'Itri]
I do not remember a consensus about this.
Changes in Debian are generally decided by package maintainers, not by
consensus.
Good to know. So I'm happy that nobody will complain when I will make
udev mandatory.
You seem to have mixed up lack of complaints with decision
[Anthony Towns]
I note the FHS's limited definition of /lib (essential libraries and
kernel modules) is already incorrect for /lib/udev,
/lib/lsb/init-functions, /lib/linux-sound-base, /lib/terminfo,
/lib/alsa, /lib/alsa-utils, /lib/discover and /lib/init.
I did not look closely at the
believe is the best option. I see several valid points
for moving it away from /, and several for keeping it there.
Friendly,
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Petter Reinholdtsen
One of those
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[Petter Reinholdtsen]
One user is bootlogd, needing before init is started to store
stats about the boot. That is before both these points in the boot.
I managed to write bootlogd when I intended to write bootchartd. That
is the package making statistics about the boot process.
[Anthony
[Thomas Hood]
I don't think that it is ridiculous to require that every package
have a team behind it---i.e., at least two maintainers. First, if
someone can't find ONE other person willing to be named as a
co-maintainer of a given package then I would seriously doubt that
that package (or
[Russ Allbery]
Also, I think this is a little silly for small packages. My
experience with this sort of volunteer work in other areas is that
if one person does nearly all the work on a regular basis, you're
not gaining that much by having a backup. The person who is
theoretically the
Your ideas reminds me of the Mandriva Club system, where users can
come together and show their commitment and involvement in Madriva
(previously Mandrake Linux). The site is supposed to be
URL:http://club.mandriva.com/, but I'm unable to get any response
from it. The google cache gave me this
[Neil McGovern]
Sounds like an idea that's being thrown around at the moment:
http://wiki.debian.org/FriendsOfDebian
Ah, right. Very good idea indeed. :)
That page even had a few more of those. Perhaps we should just go
ahead and implement it . :)
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When I try to upgrade one of my machines running testing, I get a
warning about a missing public key:
[...]
W: GPG error: http://ftp.no.debian.org testing Release: The
following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is
not available: NO_PUBKEY 010908312D230C5F
W:
[Michael Vogt]
Sorry for the delay. I'm preparing a new upload that adds the 2006
archive key to the default keyring.
Sounds good. Will this automatically take care of the key update and
make sure no manual intervention is needed to get packages upgraded?
Isn't Ubuntu using the signed apt
[Florian Weimer]
What about: stop threatening your fellow developers?
Why is specifying the consequences of doing a bad job with maintaining
ones debian packages threatening?
Personally I believe it is time we made clear and written down
explanations on what will happen to badly maintained
[David Nusinow]
As far as I know this wasn't any corporate decision by Canonical to
give back to Debian, but it was a personal decision by Daniel to
help me (for which I'm immensely grateful).
I do not really understand this kind of reasoning. I get the
impression that you see a difference
[Eric Dorland]
This has probably been covered ad nauseum, but where do we stand in
respect to getting mplayer in Debian?
[Nathanael Nerode]
IIRC, the copyright issues were carefully worked out and solved
after several years, finally reaching the approval of debian-legal.
At which point it
[Jérôme Warnier]
But why would you want to become a DD if you are not willing to
maintain a package. Debian is just about maintaining packages.
Debian needs more than just people maintaining packages. We need
people working on translations, documentation, testing, web pages,
system
[Junichi Uekawa]
3. support for X. Some of my packages are command-line console tools,
but many are actually graphical apps. It would be a plus to have
some kind of interactive/noninteractive X-based testing.
Would xnee do the trick?
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[David Weinehall]
Since all Ubuntu packages are recompiled against a different set of
libraries, the bug might not even affect the Debian package, even though
they share the same source.
The same can be said about Debian architectures, when the autobuilder
build the packages at different
[Bart Martens]
The Debian package flash-plugin is meant as an alternative or as a
replacement for flashplugin-nonfree.
Why not just join forces with Takuo KITAME to maintain
flashplugin-nonfree, and update it to behave the way you want it? I
do not see the point of two installer packages for
[Alexander Sack]
You mean take over the package?
If that is required, yes. But I suspect a friendly reenforcement of
the maintainer team is a better solution if one is able to get in
touch with the maintainer.
Have you ever succeeded to get any communication started with Takuo
during the
insserv to reorder all the scripts to make sure the scripts are
started in dependency order. This is a bit higher risk at the moment,
as the runlevels 1 and 6 are not entirely correctly documented yet,
but work fine for the other runlevels.
Friendly,
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base
packages already use it on linux. :)
Friendly,
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[Steinar H. Gunderson]
Perhaps the ftpmasters are busy with the mirror split?
Could be, but I believe I heard that most NEW processing is done by
one of the assistants while the mirror split is done by someone else.
I guess that one person got busy or demotivated. I suspect NEW
processing in
[Martin F Krafft]
The mirror split is a complicated endeavour. From what I understood,
the NEW queue was put on hold on purpose until the split is
complete.
Ouch. If that is true, I hope ftpmasters will announce it to the
developers, as a blocked NEW hinders development of Debian and should
and maintainer to get him to give the task
enough priority. It does no good to try to blame anyone else but
myself for this, and I recommend the rest of you to place the blame
there as well. :)
Friendly,
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[Olaf van der Spek]
So what do you think about long-term ignored bug reports? Do you
think that should not be considered any issue/problem?
It is definitely something we should try to address. When I run into
those myself for issues that are important to me, I try to contact the
maintainer,
to wait until your official Debian Developer
membership card is available for you to become involved in sysadmin
work in Debian. And already being involved will make it a lot easier
for you to become a official Debian Developer.
Friendly,
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[Ravindra Sunkad]
I'm am trying to debug a memory corruption problem using
ElectricFence 2.1 on Linux
I believe valgrind is better for this. Check out
URL:http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/.
Sorry, but I do not know anything about your mmap problem.
[Enrico Zini]
What would a Debian Usability project do?
What about looking at the new installer, and give suggestions to how
it can be made easier to understand and user for new users?
URL:http://developer.skolelinux.no/info/cdbygging/distdiff-all.html.gz
Statistics from update_excuses.html generated 2003.04.21 23:32:16 +.
- 2274 packages total.
- 2269 packages with differences.
- 1106 valid packages.
- 365 buggy packages.
- 1634 packages over age.
- 570
[James Troup]
On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly
inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by
looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package
signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from
that anyone
[Matt Zimmerman]
a) Can I get the hostname in my shell script another way (this could be a
question for this list)?
getent hosts foo.bar.baz
getent is available on Linux and Solaris (7 and 8).
It is not available on Tru64 Unix 5.2, Irix 6.5.15, Mac OS X 10.2,
HP-UX (11.00 and 11.22) and AIX
I just ran some stats on my APT sources (mostly Woody), and discovered
that the distribution of number of packages per developer is very
uneven. This is the histogram of developers with the specific number
of packages they maintain:
Packages Developers
1 239
2
[Derek Atkins]
In particular, part of the problem appears to happen during the
configure phase. In order to debug the configuration problem
I need access to the config.log during the failed build process.
This can be fixed in the package build script (debian/rules). Just
call configure like
[James Troup]
Tor Slettnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I forwarded this email to his other address, which I came across in a
mail from a common friend of our.
[Tollef Fog Heen]
So, why do you think having a more even distribution is a good
thing?
Because in Debian there is a few people with high load in debian,
and many with less load. People with high load are more likely to
burn out and disappear. It is thus better to have more people with
less
[Nikita V. Youshchenko]
Should /etc/hostname contain only short hostname, or FQDN name?
Is this documented anywhere?
I prefer the FQDN as hostname. It make it easier to report the
correct name in scripts when administrating large installations.
Some unix-types do not handle FQDN as hostname,
Some of you might remember my script to summarize the excuses list for
package migration from sid to testing. I've posted it twice already.
The updated list is available from
URL:http://developer.skolelinux.no/info/cdbygging/distdiff-all.html.gz.
The situation is a lot better now then it was in
[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]
(For those who are not aware of this issue, please read #92810)
There seem to be someone believing that standard documents should be
treated as software. Standards are not software. Standards do not
improve if everyone is allowed to modify them and publish the
[Stephen Stafford]
We have a commitment that everything in Debian main is Free. Since
the RFC license is NOT Free, it can't be in main. This does NOT
imply anything about the usefulness of RFCs, merely about their
Freedom.
There seem to be two ways of interpreting the social contract. One
[Andreas Barth]
So I think this is fair enough and if neither the original requester
nor any reader of debian-wnpp sees need for a package it really
doesn't need to be packaged any more.
I have several packages which I am interested in getting packaged, but
I am neither the requester nor a
As discussed during debcamp in Oslo, all the groups/projects making
debian based custom distributions should join together to find common
solutions to the common problems. This is a start, with a few of the
issues that Skolelinux had and solved.
- Automatic installation
Using the new
[Tore Anderson]
God, No! There's far too many Debconf questions being asked by
various Debian packages already, IMNSHO.
There is no reason for you to get religious over this question.
The nice thing about debconf is that there is no _need_ to present all
options as questions. One can like
I believe it would be a good idea if the default print system in the
next release of Debian (Sarge) is changed to CUPS. CUPS is a more
complete, more userfriendly and RFC complient printing system.
URL:http://www.cups.org
Any reason not to change the default?
I know it is possible to use 'setterm -blank value' to change the
current screen saver timeout value in the linux console. But is it
possible to get the current value out of the console?
I want to disable the screen saver while some task is being done, and
then enable it again with the original
[Joey Hess]
Probably making the print server task install it instead of lpr, which
would have a side effect of making sure it's on CD#1 if it's not
already. Probably also demoting the lpr package to optional and moving
cups from there to standard. Possibly making lsb depend on part of cups
[Hamish Moffatt]
Why is it useful to fetch this documentation and install it through a
Debian package, rather than say with your favourite web browser?
Offline reading?
[Thomas Hood]
Given these facts, what should the ALSA packaging team do? It seems
that the alsa packages should Conflict with discover and discover1.
Isn't this only a problem with discover1? I thought discover (v2) had
a mechanism to detect if OSS or ALSA was used.
It is probably better to
[Thomas Hood]
Debconf wasn't designed to serve the purpose to which you are trying
to put it. Debconf is not a registry.
Actually, debconf was designed for first-time configuration of
packages, and is well suited for the task. Your mantra debconf is
not a registry does not apply here.
[Enrico Zini]
One of the suggestions that came out is using dpkg diversions.
I remember diversions came out in the past, and I don't remember how
come they didn't come out again. Was there something wrong with them?
I believe they are forbidden or don't work for conffiles. And we need
to
[Anand Kumria]
I'm hoping there is some automated tool we can use rather than
having to find and then report bugs as we go.
Perhaps you can use 'nm binary' and check if it is using the 64-bit
version of the libc function calls?
I agree that hotplug and discover must be able to co-exist on a
system. And I believe they mostly do, as I have both installed. :)
[A Mennucc]
Unless someone may go and rewrite xserver-xfree86 to suggest
'hotplug | discover', and use any of the two. (hotplug has a much
wider list of
[Marco d'Itri]
Hotplug does not know about X drivers and is not supposed to.
Right. That is what I suspected. So it can not replace discover,
kudzy, or any of the other packages capable of providing X driver
info.
I think that the correct solution is to ship discover with
autoloading of USB
[Marco d'Itri]
discover cannot load hotplugged devices, so to me it looks like a good
idea to use the same program to do both. Reliably reproducible bugs are
better than inconsistent behaviour. :-)
I'm not really interested in participating in that discussion.
Anyway, if you make a patch,
[Jan Niehusmann]
Question to the security team: What's holding back security support
for sarge? (This is not a complaint - I'm just curious)
Debian-edu is trying to form a separate security team for
debian/testing, working on keeping the testing distribution secure in
paralell with the
[Don Armstrong]
Is there anything that those of us who are not these two people can
do to help with this, short of not bothering them about it?
I'm not sure how to help on the infrastructure.
But if you want to help with securing sarge/testing, you can help Joey
Hess and the rest of us
[BugScan reporter]
Bug stamp-out list for May 14 06:01 (CST)
Total number of release-critical bugs: 565
Number that will disappear after removing packages marked [REMOVE]: 1
Number that have a patch: 79
Number that have a fix prepared and waiting to upload: 22
Number that are being
[Jerome Warnier]
Could someone go through the list and NMU this? I'm willing to help,
if necessary.
The maintainer of sysklogd have a problematic relationship with NMUs.
Have a look at bug #225895 for an ironic view on this. :)
[Jerome Warnier]
So what? Am I stuck with my problem like so many people are already? And
a friendly takeover of the package?
I suspect you will discover and get stuck in the power games in Debian.
I already have to problem on at least 4 machines, with things as
POP-before-SMTP and log
[Jesus Climent]
The problem being that X using Debconf to store information, Y
modifying the info and then X getting an upgrade, the info stored by
X using Debconf might be used again to set the values in the data
file, which will break the initial purpose of Y.
Well, the solution to this
[Matthew Palmer]
It appears that you have missed the point.
No, I didn't miss Steve's point. I just give it less priority than
other points.
[Peter Samuelson]
We seem to be moving to a de facto standard of UTF-8 for non-ASCII
characters in debian/control files. This is not specified in Policy
[1], but for hopefully obvious reasons, consistency is a Good Thing,
and UTF-8 seems to be the best solution for this sort of thing.
Some
[Jonas Meurer]
can you give further information about this 'Godwin law'? you mean
that i repeated what Godwin already mentioned?
Different Godwin, I believe.
URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
[Thaddeus H. Black]
UTF-8 is neat, but I do not really like Unicode (you may
[Marco d'Itri]
Actually you do not even understand it, because this sentence is
meaningless.
Perhaps he is aware of the difference between Unicode and ISO-10646?
UTF-8 is an encoding of ISO-10646.
[Goswin von Brederlow]
Actually that is forbidden by policy. A package may not change
another packages conffiles.
Actually, the policy forbids the _maintainer scripts_ of a package to
change another packages conffiles. It does not forbid a script in a
package to change another packages
[Ingo Juergensmann]
Why? To make it public what buildd admins are the worst?
To make public the requests made regarding the autobuilders (others
can see existing requests, and do not have to send identical requests
again), and to make sure the state of each request is available both
to the
Do you want a working XFree86 configuration out of the box, without
having to answer questions about your hardware?
Try to install xdebconfigurator,
URL:http://packages.debian.org/xdebconfigurator, and see if it work
for you? To test it, install the package and run
xdebconfigurator dexconf
[Jan Niehusmann]
Unfortunately, testing does not guarantee security updates. Sure,
one day the updates will promote from unstable to testing. But this
can take a long time, if, for example, some dependencies block the
new version from testing.
This may change with a testing-security upload
[Mason Loring Bliss]
Ooh... This is arguably the most exciting Debian-related thing I've
heard of in some time! A security team for Sarge. Dreamy!
Thank you. But it is not for sarge. It is for testing. When sarge
is released, the team will move on to sarge+1. :)
Joey Hess is the coordinator
[Al Stone]
How does one simply see what's in the NEW queue?
There is an experimental service available from
URL:http://developer.skolelinux.no/~pere/debian-NEW.html, updated at
random times whenever I feel like it (normally at least once a day).
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[Marc Haber]
adduser has two bug reports open where people are asking for user name
rules to be relaxed. One report wants . to be allowed in user names,
another wants usernames to start with numbers.
May I ask for your opinion before denying or following the requests?
Personally, I prefer
[Martin Zobel-Helas]
from the page: Total package count: 356
is that the number of source package, or the number of binaries?
It is the number of source packages, but I agree, the text should
probably mention this explicitly.
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[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]
http://qa.debian.org/~anibal/debian-NEW.html
Great. This is much better than my crude hack. If you plan to keep
this updated all the time, I'll close down my page and point people to
your page.
Any input is welcome.
It would be nice if the changelog for the
[Adeodato Simó]
That is, a diff of the list of binary packages. Perhaps, one could
colour red removed packages, and blue added ones.
Be carefull with using only color coding. This make it harder for
color blind and blind people to read the information.
While we are on the feature
[Matt Zimmerman]
You can use Ubuntu and do Debian development in a chroot, or use Debian and
do Ubuntu development in a chroot. So, you're free to pick whichever you
prefer, but it will be more convenient to run the system where you will do
(more of) your development.
Yes, and use pbuilder
[Otavio Salvador]
I talked with Daniel Stone about it and I'll maintain it inside of
Debian.
Good. I look forward to getting ddcprobe back in Debian. I send an
email asking about this earlier, but never saw the answer. :(
The current lack is it have some xorg specific issues and then we
[Thomas Bushnell BSG]
Perhaps mips is so rare that they wouldn't get bug reports.
Perhaps. URL: http://popcon.debian.org/ reports:
1 0.02% kfreebsd-i386
1 0.02% ppc64
1 0.02% hurd-i386
2 0.04% mipsel
2 0.04% m68k
2 0.04% arm
4 0.07% mips
4 0.07%
[Jay Berkenbilt]
It's now redirected to http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
The new page looks really clean and easy to read. Thanks to everyone
who participated in making it available.
Yes, thanks to all of you. :)
I like the Age column, but I think it's still useful to know the
[Joerg Jaspert]
The way to generate this is(was) to modify a script from the
dak suite to output html instead of plain text. I tried to not make the
difference between my version and the existing one to big, so it mostly
shows what was already there, just with different format.
Is there
[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]
The answer to that is to setup a dist-cc cluster for these archs,
where only the master node is in the slow arch, and everything else
is a fast arch. i.e. far stricter buildd requirements would fix it.
Even mirror space problems can be fixed without dropping an
[Thiemo Seufer]
Those would need to go into experimental, where no buildd problem
exists by definition.
I'm told there are some autobuilders for experimental, and believe
your definition of experimental need some adjustment. :)
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[Peter 'p2' De Schrijver]
This can be solved by using emulation tools (like
qemu). Unfortunately qemu doesn't support m68k as a target yet. It
would not only help for cross buildd's, but also allow maintainers
to debug arch specific problems in their package on their laptop :)
For m68k, there
[Dirk Eddelbuettel]
[1] I removed the entry unknown -- this corresponds to assuming that
unknown as population corresponds to the distribution of all known
dists shown here. Lacking knowledge of what drives unknown, this
appears fair. If someone has a breakdown of unknown,
[Ingo Juergensmann]
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
or mail the appropriate buildd admin listed on http://buildd.net/ -
maybe the addresses are not uptodate anymore, but that's because not
all buildd admins cooperate...
Why not list this address at the end of each arch-specific log page?
For
[Ron Johnson]
I just don't understand how Reagan got elected. No one I know
voted for him!
In other words, just because *you* don't know anyone who uses AA,
that doesn't mean that a decent number of people *do* use AA.
You are absolutely right. :)
But there is always a chance of someone
[martin f krafft]
I am trying to use distcc to compile Debian packages and kernels,
and am failing. The reason is that I need to use distcc-over-SSH,
but the Debian compile process is run as (fake)root.
Why isn't it enough to do 'make install' as root? Is there something
in the build process
at the packages in the NEW
queue, and start testing them earlier. At least for Debian Java, it
might make a difference. This will not affect the problem of the
stuck NEW queue, but it will make it easier for the project to keep
moving forward while the NEW queue is stick.
--
Petter Reinholdtsen
Without
[Frank Küster]
tetex-bin, with a new binary package name, and targetted at
experimental, has been processed.
Good. :)
I'm aware that a few packages have been able to get through the NEW
queue. Thus the almost only the d-i releated packages have been able
to get throught in my email. But I'm
[Martin Zobel-Helas]
Might it be that they try to get no new packages into the archive
before a release? It is just a guess...
I have no idea.
But several of the packages in the NEW queue are just rearranged old
packages fixing real bugs, and sarge would be better of if these fixes
made it
[Wouter Verhelst]
For example, it suspiciously looks like the Security Team only has one
public active member, Martin Schulze, since at least October 2004.
Uh. there's only been one person sending out the emails when a security
announcement is due, but that isn't the same thing.
Who else is
[Goswin von Brederlow]
Then it must be read-only. To the client and the server. No changing
of links or hostame or anything in there.
LTSP keep all the client specific files in RAM file system. The
NFS-mounted root is not written to by the client.
[Bob Hilliard]
This presents a problem for the dict-freedict package, in that a
xx_YY.utf-8 locale must be available on the build machine. AFAIK
there is no way to guarantee that a specific locale is available on
the buildds. It would be possible for debian/rules to generate a
xx_YY.utf-8
[Carlos Laviola]
As Michelle Ribeiro announced in -project[0] but hasn't garnered much
attention from the community, we thought it would be better to repost
this revised version of our proposal here. We're looking forward for
your comments on this idea.
I do not expect to be able to find
[Adam Heath]
As a submitter, would you feel satisified that you had just gotten
such a mail?
Yes, I would. I would then know that I could fetch the new release to
see if the problem was really fixed in this release.
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