Re: Debian openssh option review: considering splitting out GSS-API key exchange
On Tue, Apr 02, 2024 at 01:30:43PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 01:30:10 +0100, Colin Watson > wrote: > >We carry a patch to restore support for TCP wrappers, which was dropped > >in OpenSSH 6.7 (October 2014); see > >https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2014-April/032497.html > >and thread. That wasn't long before the Debian 8 (jessie) freeze, and > >so I patched it back in "temporarily", but then I dropped the ball on > >organizing a proper transition. > > Please don't drop the mechanism that saved my¹ unstable installations > from being vulnerable to the current xz-based attack. Just having to > dump an ALL: ALL into /etc/hosts.deny is vastly easier than having to > maintain a packet filter. > > Greetings > Marc > > ¹ and probably thousands others In the good old days we relied on any network facing service to be linked to tcp wrappers so a single line would secure your system against the network with all the possible intruders. This is how i worked for decades. These times have long gone and tcp wrapper as a security mechanism has lost its reliability, this is why people started moving away from tcp wrapper (which i think is a shame) I personally moved to nftables which is nearly as simple once you get your muscle memory set. If ssh is your only candidate of network service you could also use match statements in /etc/ssh/sshd_config.d/. So - i am okay with removing the libwrap dependency (not happy) Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: The future of mipsel port
Hi, On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 10:53:02AM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: > From what I have understood from YunQiang plans, it is currently not > planned to import mipsel on debian-ports. Are you volunteering for > maintaining such a port? I am not interested in mips32r2 as i have no hardware for that. So everything debian-mipsel stretch++ is unusable. > > revert away from mips32r2 back to mips2/mips3 - That change (with > > stretch) basically dropped all of the supported platforms formerly > > supported without a good reason - mips32r2 cpus would have been > > The reason is that many upstream code do not support mips2 anymore, > especially for JIT languages or languages with their own code generator. > Be prepared for a lot of upstream work. I have already started with that on stretch - have 90% build - the issue is that a lot of debian patches unconditionally enabled/switched to mips32r2 Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: The future of mipsel port
Hi, On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:45:51PM +0800, YunQiang Su wrote: > Hi, folks, > > Welcome to era of Trixie, and let's talk about the future of mipsel. > So I consider to suggest drop mipsel support from the list of official ports. > (And let's keep mips64el port). I am late to the party but as i mentioned a couple times on debian-mips already i'd like to keep mipsel as a debian-port - and i'd like to revert away from mips32r2 back to mips2/mips3 - That change (with stretch) basically dropped all of the supported platforms formerly supported without a good reason - mips32r2 cpus would have been able to run mips2 code. The now supported platforms are basically non existent or available for the normal user. So with that change we basically killed 90% of the Debian/mipsel users/community e.g. Siemens RM series, Cobalt Cube/RAQ, Decstation R4k and the like which are now all stuck with pre-Stretch Debian Releases. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: 64-bit time_t transition for 32-bit archs: a proposal
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 01:45:10PM +0800, YunQiang Su wrote: > For mipsel, we have one more thing to do: > - NaN2008 vs NaN legacy > So I'd prefer rebootstrap (only for mipsel). > And In fact we did it: https://repo.oss.cipunited.com/debian/ I am also rebuilding Debian/mipsel from stretch on for mips2 as the mips32 transition unnecessarily dropped 70% of the available machines under the bus in preference of some rare species. So in "rebootstrapping" which might want to change the debian architecture name as this is getting pretty confusing. The Debian/mipsel of today is not what we had when i initiated that Port 20 years ago. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: partman, growlight, discoverable partitions, and fun
On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 10:50:35AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 01:41:18AM -0400, nick black wrote: > > Marco d'Itri left as an exercise for the reader: > > > And the preseeding syntax is as powerful as it is inconvenient. > > > > Implementing support for more partition formats, if missing, should be > > > rather easy. > > > But which ones do we need for architectures which are not actually dead? > > > > So, as I responded to Adrian [0], the only missing partition > > types appear to be amiga, atari, and sun. Adding them ought be > > simple enough, though I'd need testers with the hardware, or > > access to the hardware. > > I'd start with asking porters of m68k and sparc64 whether today's systems > even run anything but Linux. I think there's little point in keeping compat > with 80s' OSes. > > At a risk of drawing ire of m68k/sparc64 folks, I'd also suggest not putting > your tuits there until this millenium's hardware is covered well. This might be needed for booting purposes. 80ies Workstations tend to have ROMs/BIOSes much like UEFI today and may even be booting files from a Filesystem on a specific partition and thus disk label type. So you are not breaking compatibility with 80ies OSes but the platform as a whole. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Proposal: plocate as standard for bookworm
On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 02:15:17PM -0800, Noah Meyerhans wrote: > On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 07:28:56PM +0100, Richard Hartmann wrote: > > I very dimly remember updatedb being a concern when cloud images were > > first discussed. Back then and today, agreed, it does not make sense > > there. > > Agreed, but we don't install all Priority: standard packages on the > cloud images anyway, and I don't see us going out of our way to add it > to them even if plocate is promoted to standard. > > > IMO, it makes sense on both servers and desktops, so rather than > > through tasksel, I would think it's a useful default to have on all > > non-virtual installations. > > Personally I'd rather leave it out of the default install, and I really > don't like the idea of running it on servers by default. First, the > additional IO may impact serving latencies. Second, because servers > (except maybe multi-user shell servers, but they're not the general > case) are purpose-built systems, and the locate utility really doesn't > contribute anything to the system's purpose. All locate variants are a PITA on servers, especially when virtualized. Imagine a 100+ VM hypervisor at 6:30 starting an updatedb job on all VMs in parallel. I debugged stuff like that for customers so yes - This problem is real. My ansible "essential" roles purge all variants of locate. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Mozilla Firefox DoH to CloudFlare by default (for US users)?
On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 03:31:37PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote: > I for one, do trust my ISPs a lot more than I trust Cloudflare or > Google, simply based on the jurisdiction. There are tons of setups which are fine tuned for latency because they are behind sat links etc or low bandwidth landlines. They have dns caches with prefetching to reduce typical resolve latency down to sub milliseconds although your RTT to google/cloudflare is >1000ms. Switching from your systems resolver fed by DHCP to DoH in Firefox will make the resolve latency go from sub ms to multiple seconds as the HTTP/TLS handshake will take multiple RTT. This will effectively break ANY setup behind Sat links e.g. for example all cruise ships at sea. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian vs Linux namespaces
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 01:15:39PM +0100, Harald Dunkel wrote: > On 3/25/19 11:41 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 01:34:34PM +0100, Harald Dunkel wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > AFAICS there are several packages that appear to be unaware of / > > > do not care about containers, e.g. opensmtpd, bind9, apt-cacher-ng, > > > probably everything using pidof or pidofproc from /lib/lsb/init-\ > > > functions). > > > > Or assuming that pid 1 is your init which you can send arbitrary > > signals without hurting anyone. > > > > Sorry to say, but Linux maps the container's init process to 1 on > purpose, exactly to support this approach. See > > http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/pid_namespaces.7.html Correct - But pid1 within the container is possibly a shell like bash or some other process. Sending SIGHUP to pid 1 in a postinst is broken in that case (Running the install within the container) See my bug report - It causes the "apt-get install" run containing daemontool-run to SIGSTOP into background and thus fail. This came up when we created testing images for our developers with packages depending on daemontools-run. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian vs Linux namespaces
Hi, On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 01:34:34PM +0100, Harald Dunkel wrote: > Hi folks, > > AFAICS there are several packages that appear to be unaware of / > do not care about containers, e.g. opensmtpd, bind9, apt-cacher-ng, > probably everything using pidof or pidofproc from /lib/lsb/init-\ > functions). Or assuming that pid 1 is your init which you can send arbitrary signals without hurting anyone. > I noticed that containerization and Linux namespaces are not number > one priority for Debian, but do you think this could be addressed > for Buster? Its pretty annoying if you try to maintain the Debian host > system, and a LXC container is affected instead. > https://bugs.debian.org/888569 > https://bugs.debian.org/888743 > https://bugs.debian.org/858837 > https://bugs.debian.org/924551 https://bugs.debian.org/922783 Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"
On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 04:07:54PM -0700, Nikolaus Rath wrote: > Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop > where all of the following works: > > - Suspend > - Hibernate > - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently) > - Volume Hotkeys > - Brightness Hotkeys > - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys > - Hot-plug of external monitor I have been using IBM/Lenovo T Series for > 15 Years and never had major issues. Given that with APM nobody expected suspend/resume to work, optimus grafic is a PITA and a waste of money. I have a T420 currently where everything works, we have tons of T460 at work and dont have any issues. There is stuff which does not work - Hot Plug Monitor for example is an issue. With digital ports e.g. HDMI/DVI/DP this typically works out of the box - The new display gets detected - The point is that for me the only desktop which remembered the Display positions was gnome2 - Its broken since then. So when i dock at work i have a shell script which uses xrandr to shuffle displays around. Hotkeys for Suspend/Resume get more or less redundant as the typical Desktop environment login/logout procedures contain all the functionality. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"
On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote: > As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly > because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are > rebooted every day. Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if > it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this > isn't a suspend issue. I have a very different perception - It is so rare that i reboot my notebook which travels with me all day that everytime i do i have troubles remembering the 30+ character Luks passphrase. I suspend/resume multiple times a day and thats my current uptime: 07:49:26 up 22 days, 20:04, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.05, 0.17 And thats a pretty standard Lenovo T420... I dont care about rebooting ... And i havent had the issue that the switch of suspend to hibernate fails. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Multipath (SAN disk) support broken in jessie
Hi, On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 08:49:15AM +0100, Allan Jacobsen wrote: > that mean that I will have to give up on getting jessie to install on > multipath disks, and wait for stretch ? From >10 Years of experience with installer issues: Yes Once the release is out my experience is that those niche bugs will not get any attention or fixing. So you better work around those bugs ... The installer is scriptable and i have tons of classes working around bugs in the last releases. You better start testing Stretch NOW and report bugs ASAP. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: support for merged /usr in Debian
On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 10:14:14AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > Daniel Reurich writes: > > > Ah, so it's actually packages that don't separate device configuration > > logic from the application or daemons properly that has caused the > > brokenness. Can we identify and fix the packages that cause this issue? > > No. Debian has basically given up on this; there are way too many > packages and way too much stuff that would have to be moved to /bin and > /lib in order to preserve the traditional semantics that allow /usr to be > mounted very late. I've poked a bit at this in the past, and the amount > of work that would be required is daunting, and benefits only a few highly > unusual edge cases. From my 25 year Unix experience i dont like the usr merge. As you sum up very nicely and i agree on is that Debian has given up on being slim at this point. There is no such thing as a single user mode boot with only the rootfs anymore. For me it boils down to - "We have parallel startup so we need all the little bells and whistles a lot faster and earlier in boot than we used to have them. Sequential filesystem processing is slow - lets reduce the number of filesystems we need to mount." I was a opponent of the systemd issue because when it came to solve the parallel/dependency based booting those were moot in my eyes. Nobody cares about booting anymore. On your Desktop/Notebook you do it probably 10 times a year because of reliable suspend/resume possibilities. Typical Virtual Machine setups even only do it ONCE in their whole lifecycle - who cares if it takes some seconds more? Making boot THE reason for the UsrMerge is simply overrating it. Flo PS: And i hate giving up on technical issues. -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de We need to self-defend - GnuPG/PGP enable your email today! signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Being part of a community and behaving
Hi, On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 09:46:08AM +1100, Brian May wrote: > On 14 November 2014 09:30, Svante Signell wrote: > > > >From an irc:(16:06:44) xxx: udevd starts very slowly without systemd... > > any chance i can speed it up? > > Assuming that report is accurate, to me it sounds like a bug that should > get fixed, as opposed to a clear indication that udevd is going to stop > supporting non-systemd systems. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767363 There are other reports about 30 second delays on bootup not yet linked to an absent systemd. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987 which is already merged with #755708, #755736, #756649, #760976, #763041 Open 4 months now ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Switching to systemd - statistics Was: Being part of a community and behaving
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 03:34:32PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 02:19:41PM +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > I meanwhile see the systemd issue as a social problem within debian. There > > are > > design issues which are REALLY controversial. In the past Debian did good by > > delaying adoption of controversial technical issues e.g. devfs and waited > > in a > > conservative way until dust settled and there was roughly a consensus. > > Sometimes this lead to better approaches to see the light e.g. udev. > > > This has changed - Debian has changed. > > > It seems we need to rush in all interesting stuff without looking forward > > past > > some months - Today systemd might be THE solution to some peoples problems. > > Is it > > tomorrow? I doubt it. > > Uhm, systemd was uploaded to debian first in 2010. Are you saying 4 years is > too much of a rush? What would be your view of a reasonable schedule? Released to our users in mid 2013 without most of the controversal bloat we are talking about now. Installation with either You are about to do something potentially harmful. To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' ?] or with systemd can be installed alongside sysvinit and will not change the behaviour of the system out of the box. This is intentional. To test systemd, add: init=/bin/systemd How many users actually did this? https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd before 2014 and the begin of the debate - less than 1000 Less than 1000 while sysvinit beeing at 170k is 0.5%. Compare that to the exim4 vs. postfix debate - We have postfix at 30K constantly growing since 2007 and exim4 at 120K - thats 25% - And still we dont switch to postfix by default. I dont get it. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Being part of a community and behaving
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 09:23:31PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, Bálint Réczey wrote: > > I have just noticed your blog post on planet.debian.org: > > https://np237.livejournal.com/34598.html > > You lack any sense of humor, really! > > Although I am a strong opponent of systemd, I had to laugh out loud > on that one, actually love it. > > Sad to see people like you that are complete bare of any > acceptance for ironic, sarcastic humor. There are 2 parts of it. Its fun - but you can read between the lines. I meanwhile see the systemd issue as a social problem within debian. There are design issues which are REALLY controversial. In the past Debian did good by delaying adoption of controversial technical issues e.g. devfs and waited in a conservative way until dust settled and there was roughly a consensus. Sometimes this lead to better approaches to see the light e.g. udev. This has changed - Debian has changed. It seems we need to rush in all interesting stuff without looking forward past some months - Today systemd might be THE solution to some peoples problems. Is it tomorrow? I doubt it. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: so long and thanks for all the fish
Hi, On Fri, Nov 07, 2014 at 05:04:10PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > It's become abundantly clear that this is no longer the project I > originally joined in 1996. We've made some good things, and I wish > everyone well, but I'm out. I share your feelings. Back in those days you and Joey were the reasons for me to join Debian. In Oldenburg at the m68k Hacker meeting i showed up with a complete mips and mipsel port done and had been hosting a Debian mirror for a while. You two told me there was no way around than to associate more with Debian - so i did. I just installed moon-buggy just to remember those days ;) m68k is gone - You are gone. Wish you all the best. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:29:11AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote: > Hi, > > lee: > > I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst > > the users (here). > > We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian > members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick. > > Of those, most … > * are perfectly happy with the TC's decision > * can live with it > * are unhappy, but think that to continue discussing this is way worse > than biting the bullet and getting on with actual work > * you do know that we plan to release Jessie sometime this decade, > right? > * are disillusioned about it all and decided to stand aside ^^^ I am that. I dont like the systemd approach - i have lived 20 years in a different linux ecosystem - i had loads of trouble with the last thing of lennart so thanks - Evolution instead of revolution. > > Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number <6 people. * Have not yet bitten by the systemd issue. Honestly i have not installed a new debian release in the past until months after the release. With a couple of hundret systems to admin you are not hurrying for the next release. So the masses of users have not yet even heard of systemd, nor have experienced it. So my guess is that the big uproar from the sysadmins comes 3-6 Month after release. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: apt-get install sysvinit-core removes gnome?
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:47:41PM +0200, Dominik George wrote: > Hi, > > >but it seems there is some dependency in jessie which makes gnome > >unavailable > >without systemd. > > It is there because upstream requires it. There is no GNOME without systemd. > This is not specific to Debian. *örgs* Because i - aehm - cant set an icon for my system via hostnamed or something? I still wait to wake up to let this bad dream of systemd go past me. This can only be a bad dream ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
apt-get install sysvinit-core removes gnome?
Hi, is it intentional that gnome is removed when systemd is replaced by sysvinit-core? an apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils on a fresh jessie removed most of the gnome desktop. I dont want systemd and i'd like to remove as much of the blob as possible. I thought systemd-shim + sysvinit-core/utils would be enough to make a usable system but it seems there is some dependency in jessie which makes gnome unavailable without systemd. Am i wrong? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Aborting installation on unsupported systems
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 04:37:00PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > Well, depends on how strict you want that parsing to be: > > grep -q '^flags.*\' /proc/cpuinfo && echo "SSE2 possible" > > This is good enough on i686 and x86-64, as the architecture itself does not > tolerate any difference in the flags set between processors. Maybe enhance > it a little so that it won't trigger on "^flags_new" or somesuch. A program which essentially needs SSE2 should check the availability of those extensions on startup and fail with an error message instead of an illegal instruction violation. So checking in an postinst script would be overkill wouldnt it? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Avoiding systemd
On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 03:47:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > This one. > > The systemd package contains other dbus services that you don't want to try > to exclude from a desktop system; and libpam-systemd provides necessary > integration with policykit on those same systems. So basically what you say is Debian ended support for other init systems because whatever one chooses you pull in half the systemd? I was against all the systemd stuff because i saw this coming. There is no way to avoid the "userspace.exe" blob Debian is soon made of. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian default desktop environment
On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 10:50:11AM +0100, Ghislain Vaillant wrote: > IMHO, GNOME 3 in *classic mode* get it right. I use it daily and only > got positive comments from other Linux and non-Linux users. FYI, the DE > popularity in my lab is split between Unity (ahead by far), GNOME and > KDE. None of them is running XFCE to my knowledge. > > However, I believe XFCE *could* be a good default DE for Debian, but > some efforts need to be made with regards to the default theme and > layout. Users do care about visual identity (or call it brand > recognition if you like), and currently XFCE in Debian does not have > any, I am afraid. Going from Gnome2 to Gnome3 my first reaction was "What the F***" and its still like that after using G3 for ~ 2 years. Gnome3 broke a lot of stuff for me like monitor hotplug multihead stuff, i miss a correctly supported nautilus Desktop (i know gnome-tweaks but nautilus as desktop background is completely broken). When i click on the iceweasel butten i REALLY MEAN TO OPEN A NEW WINDOW and not get the existing one to the front. I know how to find a running application. gnome-terminal went from broken to unusable so i switched to roxterm. The notification stuff is unusable and so is using pidgin. I dont see waiting IMs anymore so i had to switch to more intrusive notification plugins in pidgin. G3 trys to be clever and trys to mother me and take care of everything, but for me it fails so horribly and stands in my way. I am feeling the pain and look at the mess every single day and i cant really understand what people thought building G3. KDE breaks my vision. Its full of myriads of options and eye candy although most of the time i simply want a terminal multiplexer but translucent windows are not an accessibility plus. XFCE is a good option and i have been playing with it for a while but it feels very rough at the edges - still a lot better than G3 at not standing in my way. My collegues completely switched to cinnamon and laugh at my resistance in giving up on Gnome. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Call to fork
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:06:46AM -0500, Sam Hartman wrote: > Thanks for sharing this. > So, you're frustrated and very disappointed because Ddebian, something > you cared about deeply has drifted so far away from what you want that > you can no longer support it? > > I hope that if you decide to fork, you succeed in creating something > that meets your needs. I hope that where appropriate we (both the > Debian community and the broader FLOSS community) can work together > where appropriate. > > Again, thanks for being open and sharing how this is affecting you. I think i made my point that forking will not help the issue. I am telling you that by all the technical discussions which of the systems is superior over the other you forget about your users. My estimation is that 99% of the users dont care - sysvinit is sufficient and works. 0.5% think they need this little tiny bit of feature which only upstart can give them, 0.5% think they need a feature only systemd can give them. By following either of the 0.5% "majority" you piss off 50% because their beloved sysvinit which has been doing what it should for decades is gone. And i think i made the point that the voice who said "fork debian" is just telling you in their way that Debian has lost another supporter. Debian - The Universal operating system whose priority are their users? The systemd issue has gone out of proportion by far - Its a technical issue which is getting debated over a lot. But i think the systemd proponents have made a much broader issue from it which is now about trust, choice, and taste. You cant win here. Flo PS: I talking about Debian as "you" because i dont feel beeing part of Debian anymore. -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Call to fork
Hi, On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 01:29:47AM +, Sam Hartman wrote: > In all seriousness. > Forking, or creating a Debian downstream because you'd like a different > boot approach sounds like exactly the sort of constructive approach that > will help you solve your problems and get an operating system you're > happy with. For me there is a lot more reason to fork: - Dropping Architectures - Gnome3 Bullshit - systemd Debian is not as useful as it was a couple years back. I started with debian because of m68k and later contributed the first mips and mipsel packages and hosted the first buildds for mips and mipsel. Debian has lost me since - The discussion about dropping and factual dropping of architectures - the Gnome3 stuff which is/was far from production quality (e.g. #698340, #698781), brokeness in debian installer (#712879) and now the systemd stuff. systemd hurts my minimalistic approach and beeing non portable is an absolute show stopper for me. Stuff which used to work gets broken and nobody cares. Probably i am an oldtimer and should switch to Windows or something (Which i never used). For me Debian over the last 5 years diverted far away from what i saw as my Desktop and Server OS. People in my surrounding switch to Mint, Ubuntu and whatever and i have no arguments to get them back because i also fight on a daily basis. So Debian - You lost me Just some feelings about my 15+ Year involvement with Debian. Flo PS: I dont think a fork would really work out but if some people would listen to the noise the systemd issue makes. IMHO its not about systemd per se. The past decisions about architectures and now systemd splits off some parts of our userbase. For me Debian has long lost the "Universal" in "Universal Operating System". -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#727708: Fsck SystemD and its developers and its users. GR to override this please.
Hi, On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 09:10:56PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > Again, I do not understand how our users will actually profit from > being able to choose their init system. I am a minimalist - I like sysvrc as it is today and i dont like the "i can build a daemon which replaces most of the userspace and runs at pid 1". Name it "userspaced" - link gnome and libreoffice against it and be done. So yes - i am one of the Debian users who'd like to run a minimal as possible init and i'd like to have the choice. I dont care about boot times or dependency based booting. I boot my desktop/notebook once a month and servers more or less every couple of years. sysvinit has done that for me for approx. 30 years and i really dont see the need to change it. I like to quickly change init scripts by writing shell code in them, disabling portions of environment checks or preparing environment before start. The more dependencies and functionality you put into systemd the more i run away in disgust. Flo PS: For me the systemd feels like DJB dropping of qmail and telling everyone that its the _only_ mail system everybody should use. It was fine in a way - it had new concepts - but it was a horrible failure. -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: UTF-8 in jessie
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 05:58:20PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50:19PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM. > > I'm afraid I don't agree here: BOMs are nasty stuff that serve no purpose > once you standardize on UTF8. They might help with exchange with a minority > of Windows programs, at a cost at our side. Windows hardly does plain text: > most of that is MSVC/etc sources, but then, the C/C++ standards explicitely > forbid junk in places other than comments. Most other languages expect a > hashbang on Unix, which makes BOMs impossible. I agree that BOMs are nasty and should not be generated by our standard tools. I have been bitten by BOMs more than once and had a hard time looking for the fault until looking at the "plain ascii" file with a hex editor. AFAIK Tools like vim understand and hide the fact that there is a BOM and rewrite them. Other tools give "interesting" results stumping on a BOM. So its inconstistent which makes it hard to find. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: UTF-8 in jessie
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> I propose the following sub-goals:
>
> 1. all programs should, in their default configuration, accept UTF-8 input
>and pass it through uncorrupted. Having to manually specify encoding
>is acceptable only in a programmatic interface, GUI/std{in,out,err}/
>command line/plain files should work with nothing but LC_CTYPE.
>
> 2. all GUI/curses/etc programs should be able to display UTF-8 output where
>appropriate
>
> 3. all file names must be valid UTF-8
>
> 4. all text files should be encoded in UTF-8
5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
Flo
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Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
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Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant Was: mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 05:20:21PM +0200, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: > >But why on earth did very simple thing like multihead management break? > > Very simple thing ‽ Clearly, you have no idea. It was functional and working for me in Squeeze it doesnt now. Wheezy is supposed to use monitors.conf - isnt it? I like the possibility to have multiple location depending monitor setups but i guess my IQ is not enough to understand how this is supposed to work. It simply doesnt for me and after a week staring at code and monitor.xml stuff i simply gave up and wrote 10 lines of shell script. #698340 - No answer for 6 Months - Way before release #698781 - Same here ... Now what do the less skilled people? Are you telling them to use Ubuntu? So now i manually run shell scripts which run xrandr commands and kill half the desktop and restart it because primary screen changes on docking at work. WTF?!?! Its 2013 and we went through xinerama and randr extension to get this working. I simply say Wheezy/Gnome3 is a step back because basic functionality was removed. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant Was: mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 04:19:04PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > That said, we provide GNOME Classic in wheezy for good reasons. Some of > Florian’s concerns are clearly among them. I have tried that and the annoyances with the systray, multihead and nautilus manages backdrop are the same. I am not per se against Gnome3 - Some stuff like the launcher from the win keys are perfect for me, although i think its unusable without cairo-dock. But why on earth did very simple thing like multihead management break? There are tons of complaints about the systray stuff and nobody seems to care. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Debian/Wheezy general rant Was: mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
Hi, On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 12:10:11PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: > Hi Florian, > well, this could be related to Wheezy, or to you, or to the people you've > been > talking with, or something else, or a combination... > > I've switched 3 users from Squeeze to Wheezy in the last 2 weeks, and also to > Gnome 3 btw, and they all *love* it. And I also must say, I'm quite > impressed, > Debian on the desktop has come a long way. So, IOW YMMV. We are 4 people in the room and we all hate Gnome3. KDE is too bloated and xfce4 is too minimal. We all switched away from gnome-terminal to roxterm as gnome-terminal is full of resizing bugs. Multihead in Gnome3 is broken to no return. Backdrop image/gradient resizing/zooming is broken if different resolution heads. ~/.config/monitors.xml is nice but does not work at all - so you need to set your primary screen (in case its the external one) EVERY SINGLE TIME you plug in a monitor. If you do this the icons you have on your desktop partially disappear to anywhere away from the visible area. There is no way to get them back. So using nautilus to manage your backdrop window is unusable. cairo-dock does not detect primary screen change so needs to be killed and restarted. Lets not begin talking about the systray stuff and all people complainig about not beeing able to see pidgins icon anymore and though missing messages. This has all been working in gnome2/squeeze and simple stopped working and people try to convince me and others that Gnome3 is the best since sliced bread. Its NOT ! Gnome3 is a huge step back for my productivity. It might be the right thing for the swipe-zoom-multitouch-facebook kids of today who cant differentiate between running application and launcher buttons. I am a technical guy - if i press on a launcher button i meant to get a new instance of the application and not help to find my application on the 8 viewports - i know how to use alt-tab. Automounting usb sticks is a nice thing but why on earth does the popup on the bottom of the screen not disappear after some time? No thanks i dont want nautilus but the 2 options are "Open with Files" or "Eject" - None of them - I want you to shut up and close the popup. There is no close icon - so you klick into the popup somewhere not hitting the 2 options and it disappears - WTF?!?!? And then we have a bunch of Kernel thermal issues which every second day or so cause reboots an hour into the day because of CPU overheat issues after resume. Suspend/Resume issues because of the above nfs/cifs issues - so for some random issues my suspend hangs every 3rd day so i end up with a overly hot and empty notebook when i am home. Squeeze suspended reliably for years - I NEVER had to look after it. And now i am searching for a keyboard setup preseeding issue for the autoinstall infrastructure we have. It seems its completely broken, at least i have after 3 days not found a deterministic way of preseeding a de-latin1-nodeadkeys for console and X. For me wheezy is the worst of all Debian release i have been using since bo. Yes - Debian came a long way for Linux on the Desktop - but Wheezy is 2 steps back then Squeenze was. And yes i know - i can switch to $software for any random issue and fix it - but this is more or less a basic Debian/Gnome3 installation and my user experience not so positive. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 01:52:13AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: > Hi Florian, > > nice to read from you again! (even though... see below :) > > On Dienstag, 4. Juni 2013, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > I cant unmount the original mount not with -l nor with -f - both hang. > > The real problem is though that i am unable to mount new nfs or cifs > > shares as mount hangs in a readlink: > > why don't you file bugs? Ranting on debian-devel@ can be a start, but bugs > are > the real thing. As you know ;) > > So, #? Bug #711183 umount parser for /proc/mounts broken on stale nfs mount (gets renamed to "/mnt/point (deleted)") Bug #711184 mount should not stat mountpoints on mount Bug #711187 linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64: kernel should not rename mountpoint if nfs server is dead/unreachable But ranting is much easier then opening bugs and wading through thousands of bugs partially 10+ Years old and still unfixed. Wheezy is btw the Debian release i have ranted the most about till now. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
Hi,
with wheezy i get more and more annoyed by the "(deleted)" renaming of
mountpoints when nfs server are unreachable.
With squeeze i automatically unmounted nfs servers on suspend. With
wheezy this doesnt work as the real mountpoint cant be found.
The kernel renames the mountpoint from e.g. "/nfsmnt" to "/nfsmnt (deleted)"
and as /etc/mtab is a link to /proc/mounts today there is no way to
determin the real mountpoint.
Trying to unmount "/nfsmnt (deleted)" returns an "is not mounted (according to
mtab)"
IMHO i see 3 bugs at least in this:
a) Renaming of mountpoints in the kernel - Appending some random string
might clash with other mountpoints - probably intentional.
b) /etc/mtab would list the real mountpoint if under control of mount.
Now as we have a) and /etc/mtab beeing a symlink to /proc/mount we
have broken data in /etc/mtab too.
c) mount has a broken parser for mtab/mounts.
Real life example:
flo@p2:~$ cat /proc/mounts | grep nfs4
pobox:/scratch/local /scratch/pobox\040(deleted) nfs4
rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,vers=4,rsize=262144,wsize=262144,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,port=0,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=192.168.177.145,minorversion=0,local_lock=none,addr=192.168.177.1
0 0
I cant unmount the original mount not with -l nor with -f - both hang.
The real problem is though that i am unable to mount new nfs or cifs
shares as mount hangs in a readlink:
readlink("/sys/kernel/debug", 0x7f59ac90, 4096) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid
argument)
readlink("/scratch", 0x7f59ac90, 4096) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
readlink("/scratch/pobox", ^C
Flo
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Re: Bug#455769: same problem on wheezy + Thinkpad X220T
Hi, On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:07:43PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On 03/28/2013 11:47 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote: > >Would you provide a guarantee to all users of wheezy that you will pay > >for their laptop repair if this issue causes damage? > > > Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent > > permitted by applicable law. > > >This problem happens regularly enough that Debian should not be promoted > >for laptops if it is not taken seriously as an RC issue. Users will get > >a very bad impression if basic things like this aren't working in a > >stable release. > > I have heard of that problem for the very first time now and I have > been using Debian on a laptop since around 2004, on various machines > like the Thinkpad 240X, X40, T42, T60, T23. I am using Wheezy on a T410 and suspend has never been worse than now With squeeze i simply closed the lid and put the notebook away. With wheezy its a 1 in 3 chance to suspend. Typically when it fails it wont even work the second round - Not even by clicking on suspend in the menus. It switches away from X - locks the screen and comes back to X ... And i fail to find the knob to let the notebook suspend on AC Power aswell - who the fuck decided that AC power is a reason not to suspend? For me wheezy is back in the stone ages concerning suspend/hibernate. Another bug i have/had: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=698917 Also suspend related - overheat after suspend/resume. Flo PS: "We broke suspend - we need systemd to speed up boot" -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Mirror problems?
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 04:05:59PM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > On 03/13/2011 05:53 PM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 15:20:21 +0100 > > David Kalnischkies wrote: > >> Unfortunately many mirrors doesn't use the newest version of ftpsync [0] > >> and therefore their two stage update of the mirror is flawed: > > > > I wonder why does anyone package it? If we can get is as a package, > > it's easier to update. > > git clone https://ftp-master.debian.org/git/archvsync.git > > Easy enough to keep updated. The point is that every now and then somebody decides to rewrite and as a mirror admin i need to find out how the current way will work, the current configuration looks like and how to fit it into the monitoring. Its a little annoying that every year somebody tries to invent the wheel again ... What happened to anonftpsync anyway ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“ Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: perl: 64-bit integers and long doubles
On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 03:44:03PM +, Philipp Kern wrote: > On 2010-05-08, Frans Pop wrote: > > archkernel userland > > -- -- > > alpha 32 32 > > Isn't alpha the first 64bit of all? > > > mips/mipsel 32 32 > > I think that's 32/64, 32; at least for mipsel. Userspace for mips and mipsel is 32bit (o32 abi) and the kernel is 32/64 depending on the machine type. This has nothing to do with the endianess - we should have 64 bit swarm little and big endian kernels. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de "Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen." - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: gnat-4.4 is blocking most big transitions atm
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 04:09:06PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Luk Claes: > > > The build failure for gnat-4.4 is filed as an RC bug (#558146), > > This appears to be a bug in tar, perhaps due to a subarchitecture > mismatch: > > | /bin/bash: line 1: 1933 Illegal instruction tar -cf - . > > Is this really something that can be fixed on the gnat-4.4 side? Does > "tar -cf - ." work at all in the relevant chroot on mayer? LD_LIBRARY_PATH / LD_PRELOAD tricks going on? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org "Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen." - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: udev and /usr
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 12:53:10PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Florian Lohoff > > | I have ~600 Machines in the field - all with /usr on a seperate fs - If > Debian > | is going to make seperate /usr a no-go its about 30 Euros worth > | of field Engineer time - swapping disks. > > I'm fairly sure I can sell you a small shell script that you can install > in the initramfs on those boxes which will do the mount before init is > started, for say, 10k€? I'll even make it as a Debian package. Thats not the point - The point is breaking old assumptions about Debian beeing a Unixoid OS. It'll cost money somewhere - not necessarily for me but probably others. I am just making the point that this is not a lightweight decision which can be made between 12 and lunch but one which has a lot and complicated dependencies ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org "Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen." - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: udev and /usr
On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 11:11:31PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le mercredi 02 septembre 2009 à 22:30 +0200, Florian Lohoff a écrit : > > /usr was on seperate filesystems for decades and some 3733t broken by design > > Desktop utility turns around old Unix paradigms? I dont get it ... > > Since when is udev a desktop utility? Its not udevs idea to sort out usb/pci ids - Its whatevers consumer like hal/dbus and co decided to. udev itself is an essential tool necessary to bring up the machine so it has to go into root and not depend on any other filesystem to be there. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org "Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen." - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: udev and /usr
On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 04:26:08AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Sep 01, Steve Langasek wrote: > > You are drawing an artificial distinction between /usr and /var which is not > > consistent with the standard, nor with how I've been laying out my > > filesystems for years. I'm not going to refactor my disk layout on upgrade > But it is consistent with what upstream (i.e., other distributions) > wants to support. I have ~600 Machines in the field - all with /usr on a seperate fs - If Debian is going to make seperate /usr a no-go its about 30 Euros worth of field Engineer time - swapping disks. /usr was on seperate filesystems for decades and some 3733t broken by design Desktop utility turns around old Unix paradigms? I dont get it ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org "Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen." - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30:36AM +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote: > - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and > provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality > (set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated > > - For Squeeze+1: just drop it > > > * I do use ntpdate "regularly" --every time I fiddle with my system's > clock or check a customer's older server-- for the same purpose that > weasel gave before. rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. f...@stereo:~$ egrep "^time|^ntp" /etc/services time37/tcp timserver time37/udp timserver ntp 123/tcp ntp 123/udp # Network Time Protocol Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why do we have to support tmpfs for /var/run (policy changes in 3.8.1)
On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:40:57PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: > Subject: Why do we have to support tmpfs for /var/run (policy changes in > 3.8.1) > > Hi, > > one of the changes in 3.8.1 was, that support for tmpfs on /var/run (and > /var/tmp) became mandatory [9.3.2]. Lintian is now also complaining very > loudly > (error) if your package ships a directory in /var/run or /var/tmp and suggests > to create them in the init script. > > While I can see the benefits of having /var/tmp on a tmpfs to a certain > degree, > I don't really see them for /var/run, instead they make things more > complicated, > slower and error prone (for imho no real gain) Interesting - The unix way IMHO was that /tmp looses content on reboot while /var/tmp did not. This had been the case for commercial Unices for at least some decades. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: 1 of 400 dpkg databases corrupt?
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 04:32:46AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > Looking at > http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=popularity-contest >, I > see that only 99.75% of the machines reporting to popcon.debian.org > have the package popularity-contest installed. As this is impossible, > I suspect this mean that 0.25% (1 of 400) of the machines reporting to > popcon.debian.org got a corrupt/inconsitent dpkg database. Is this an > acceptable ratio? Anything we can do to reduce the number of machines > with corrupt dpkg database? Broken harddisk - I have ~450 Machines under my umbrella spreaded around germany - And the most occuring bug is a broken disk. So when pocon is installed but basically most of the disk accesses fail you get the above error i'd guess. So yes - the dpkg database might be broken - but because of hardware failure. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Buildd backlog and testing transition.
On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 01:28:42PM +, Thiemo Seufer wrote: > 2) The obvious solution is to add SATA disks to the buildds, this is >currently in the works. rem.rfc822.org done since 2008-02-22 - 120GB PATA Disk on a Promise UDMA 133 Controller. > 1) Upgrades to 1-2 GB RAM are also currently worked on (or already >done). I upgraded from 256MB to 1GB in early 2006 and experienced instabilities on rem so the memory got reduced to 512MB on 2006-04-01 which solved the issues. We may want to retry once we have a new kernel ... > For a properly running machine of this type I expect it is capable > to build ~5% of the unstable archive per day. IOW, the current backlog > should be handled soon. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Buildd backlog and testing transition.
On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 12:36:40PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > it is good news to read that there is a solution being found. However, I > am a bit confused because previous messages were suggesting that the > problem was disk speed, not downtime. Downtime caused by ghc6 build causing multiple kernel crashes on mips and mipsel. Newer kernel which might fix the issue are not available due to a kernel bug (#466977) since 2.6.18 ... (Running 2.6.17). To have the buildds catch up faster i as a buildd host was asked to provide a faster disk subsystem which i did... So you might devote your time to a) Find the cause of the build crash b) Hunt down the kernel bug in 2.6.24 c) Poke at the buildd admin to move the buildd to the new disk subsys All those might actually solve the problem and not work around it .. Thanks for you time ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: news from mips?
Just to followup ... On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 03:40:24PM +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: > Ryan and me have been communicating on a hardware mod on rem - one of > the mipsel buildds. Basically the machine is running on a PIO based ATA > disk because of the fundamentally broken design of the IDE interface > (abusing some leftover GPIO pins). I already got hold of a DMA capable > PCI controller which will be put into the machine most likely end of > this week and will bring a performance boost as it has been seen on > other BCM based buildds. > > So - the issue is known - its worked on - most likely not the speed > everyone is happy with ... The mipsel buildd rem has a new disk and the buildd dir will be moved which will speed it up a lot (PIO vs DMA) - Another issue are frequent kernel crashes which are reproducible with building ghc6 it seems and the mips buildd suffers from the same issue 1). Upgrading to 2.6.24 was not a success (#466977). Flo 1) http://lists.debian.org/debian-mips/2008/02/msg00026.html -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: news from mips?
On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 12:08:13AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > Le Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 08:10:20PM -0500, Philippe Cloutier a écrit : > > > > it would be much more efficient to work on buildd > > redundancy (or other improvements to the buildd network). > > By the way, is there a plan to solve the problem of mips not keeping up > apart waiting for a miracle to happen? > > Sorry to be rude, but I am just so surprised that there is a such big > problem and that apparently nothing is done. If people are working on > the issue, just let us know, they will get many kudos and everybody will > be happy. In the absence of any communication, you know, there is the > usual frustration... Ryan and me have been communicating on a hardware mod on rem - one of the mipsel buildds. Basically the machine is running on a PIO based ATA disk because of the fundamentally broken design of the IDE interface (abusing some leftover GPIO pins). I already got hold of a DMA capable PCI controller which will be put into the machine most likely end of this week and will bring a performance boost as it has been seen on other BCM based buildds. So - the issue is known - its worked on - most likely not the speed everyone is happy with ... Flo PS: There is also a kernel bug in the mips and mipsel kernels which got triggered on the buildds lately which crashed them hard a couple of times and caused delay by downtime - see debian-mips list. -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: US mirror troubles
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:24:24AM -0400, Johan Kullstam wrote: > I also notice that we have 4 servers listed under the name > "http.us.debian.org" > > Using "host" from bind9-host, > $ host http.us.debian.org > http.us.debian.org has address 128.101.240.212 > http.us.debian.org has address 204.152.191.7 > http.us.debian.org has address 35.9.37.225 > http.us.debian.org has address 64.50.238.52 > > And if you repeat the command, you will see the DNS doing round-robin > returning the addresses in various orders. This seems great. > > However, libc6 resolv+ (I think - can someone confirm who is to > blame?) goes out of its way to *sort* the list by IP number and thus > thwarts the round-robin. Aptitude (and wget, &c) *always* choose > 35.9.37.225. This server must be getting beat like a red-headed > stepchild since *all* the debian update/upgrade trying > http.us.debian.org go there. > > Where do I send a bug report about IP number sorting in (I presume) > gethostbyname()? I guess its an nscd issue ? Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: apt-get -y upgrade for non-interactive sessions - and replacing conf files in /etc
On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 11:57:31AM -0700, Alan Ezust wrote: > Subject: apt-get -y upgrade for non-interactive sessions - and replacing conf > files in /etc > > Hi - i was wondering, I'm trying to run apt-get upgrade in a > non-interactive shell. > I passed -y as an option, and then during the postinst, I have a > situation where the package has a configuration file which is newer > than what it is about to replace. I would like it to just replace the > configuration file without asking me, but it won't do that, even if I > pass the -y option. > > I realize that the default behavior of apt-get is probably valid, but > is there a way to run apt-get such that clobbering of configuration > files can happen without user intervention? conffiles is a dpkg thing - not apt Try something like this ... DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive \ apt-get \ -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confnew" \ --force-yes \ -fuy \ dist-upgrade I used something like this (a shell script with a couple hundret lines) to upgrade a couple hundret machines from woody via sarge to etch ... (Can we make 6 Year Release cycles please?). Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: woody removed from mirrors
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 11:39:48AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: > > Is there a schedule for non-US and security fixes to disappear and where > > will they disappear to ? > After Woody, non-US was removed as it was not needed anymore. As for > maintaining non-us repositories (for woody or any thing older), this has > stopped. As for supporting security fixes for woody, this too has > stopped. Anyone wanting security support for woody can find it through > the FLOSS community(commercial or otherwise) or any other desired > commercial solution. I am very much informed about the Debian release cycles and the processing. I also know that non-US has been obsoleted by integrating crypto-in-main and i was also participating those discussions. The problem now is - Where will non-US disappear to ? Is there an archive.debian.org for non-US e.g. non-US.archive.debian.org? And the questions about the security.debian.org woody stuff is not about further supporting it but rather the packages currently updateing woody. I dont think they now will be copied to the main woody archive tree so where will the old security updates go ? Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
woody removed from mirrors
Hi, i just noticed woody is gone which is *aehm* a problem for me but thanks archive.debian.org not unfixable (Expect couple of hundret machines). Is there a schedule for non-US and security fixes to disappear and where will they disappear to ? Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: mipsel drop / buildd situation Was: [Fwd: Re: GTK+2.0 2.6.2-3 and buildds running out of space]
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 09:13:20AM -0800, Clint Byrum wrote: > I feel your pain. Its hard to keep all these buildd's for different > architectures up. That goes to the very heart of my point. > > I'm not saying Debian should totally abandon all the work done by the > various architecture teams. But to have them all dependant on eachother > creates complexity, and complexity breeds problems. > > Please understand.. I want Debian to be great. I want it to "release > when it is ready." Under the current system, being ready means achieving > an enormous number of goals that benefit a very small number of users. For the mass market see http://fedora.redhat.com/ - Debian/GNU/Linux has a more import idiology than to look for the masses. IMHO the real problem is that with the introduction of the Package Pools the focus was dragged from the released instead of pushing towards it. If i would have designed the release/package policy i would have made a release cycle which after a freeze date would only have packages accepted to the pool/release for bug fixes and NOTHING else. Drop unstable/testing alltogether. When starting with the next "to be release" name it like this and let it go for 12 Months as "unstable". Freeze - name it testing. Release after 3 Months without accepting new packages or having unstable. With this policy developers resources would have been focused on the spot. If i cant really work on my packages i might take a look at other people bugs. IMHO the number of architectures is not the real problem of release cycles. BTW: I can live with release cycles of 2-3 Years very good. As an admin of ~500 Machines i am happy not to upgrade every 6 Month. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Heisenberg may have been here. pgp0Gq3ehkYQW.pgp Description: PGP signature
mipsel drop / buildd situation Was: [Fwd: Re: GTK+2.0 2.6.2-3 and buildds running out of space]
On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 07:20:42PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: > > If the build fails on sparc, arm, and s390, how should this be > indicative that we should drop s390, mipsel, and hppa? > mipsel is a little wrong in this list. We had some hardware problems on the 2 mipsel buildds (Same Machine, Same Manuf. Date, Same time PSU defect) and it took a while to get at least one up. The short-after death of one of the machines went past me although ryan murray did his best to reach me. The buildd situation on mipsel will improve during this week as we'll hopefully get the second machine up and running again and there are plans to get another 700Mhz SMP Machine up and running on the weekend. mipsel will catch up very soon. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Heisenberg may have been here. pgp6juddb2zoR.pgp Description: PGP signature
[VACATION] .au Sydney 29.9(Today)/30.9
Hi, i am in Sydney for Today and Tomorrow - So if any Debian enthusiasts is willing to go out for a Beer or Keysigning ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Heisenberg may have been here. pgpszBaWXKKTM.pgp Description: PGP signature
[TRAVEL] 1-9th June Helsinki/Finnland
Hi, i'll be in Helsinki/Finnland for the whole of next week (probably longer) to work. Nevertheless i'd like to meet up with other Debian enthusiasts if time permits for having a Beer (Seems to be kind of expensive according to www.alko.fi), Keysigning, Lunch etc ... I'll be reachable on my mobile +49-171-2280134 and probably be reading e-mail (If GPRS Roaming permits). Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5201-669912 Heisenberg may have been here. pgpwziteipDkv.pgp Description: PGP signature
London next 2 days
Hi, i am going to be in and around London on Thursday and Friday probably even the Weekend - I would like to meet other Debian developers and drink a couple of beers. I'll be reading email as normal (I love uucp over ssh) Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5201-669912 Why is it called "common sense" when nobody seems to have any?
archive.debian.org
Hi, what happened to the above machine ? It seems to be unreachble for a couple of days Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5201-669912 Why is it called "common sense" when nobody seems to have any?
Re: RFC: fix for daemon start (2)
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 10:01:11AM -0300, Henrique M Holschuh wrote: > Sample code: > > > Attached to this rfc, you'll find a reference (functional and somewhat > tested, as well as written for easy-of-reading) shell script > implementation of /usr/sbin/initscriptquery for sysvinit. If someone else > would like to rewrite it better, or in perl, or whatever... go ahead :-) > > Also attached to this rfc, you'll find a sample fragment of a postinst > script which uses initscriptquery to run a daemon. It's a bit big because > of the comments, but it's quite simple and very easy to read and > understand. Again, if anyone cares to write a better example, you're > welcome. I would like to have an addition to the "initscriptquery" which is something i have been waiting for long. I am interested in this because i am doing automated installations into a chroot environment. In this case i am possibly running in the right runlevel but i still dont want to have Daemons to be startet. So i would like to have a possibility to override the initscriptquery decision or more or less set an env var saying DPKG_NOSTARTDAEMONS=1 or something like this. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5201-669912 "Write only memory - Oops. Time for my medication again ..." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
On Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 04:06:01PM -0500, Jacob Kuntz wrote: > IMHO, leaving out 2.4 is a bad idea. there were problems with 2.0 -> 2.2. > there was an incompatible build of lsof, as well as some networking > problems. i feel the same way about xf86 4.0 and apache 2.0. all of these > releases are going to generate a lot of press, not to mention the fact that > these are very usefull products. yeah, it will be a lot of work. building a > good distribution *is* a lot of work. Please leave it out - Potato is already very late so please concentrate on getting potato stable and schedule 2.2r2 early containing XFree4, Kernel 2.4, Apache 2 as main "features" otherwise everyone will have their most loved package delay potato and a new distribution never will get released. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5241-470566 "Technology is a constant battle between manufacturers producing bigger and more idiot-proof systems and nature producing bigger and better idiots."
Re: Floppy access with noauto and booting
On Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:21:23PM +0200, Thomas Schoepf wrote: > On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > I have this in my /etc/fstab ... > > /dev/fd0/floppy msdos defaults,noauto,user0 2 > > Please try: > > /dev/fd0 /floppy msdos defaults,noauto,user0 0 Works - Must have been blind a couple of weeks - Does anyone have a Dog for me ? Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5241-470566 ... The failure can be random; however, when it does occur, it is catastrophic and is repeatable ... Cisco Field Notice
Floppy access with noauto and booting
Hi, does anyone see the same I have this in my /etc/fstab ... /dev/fd0/floppy msdos defaults,noauto,user0 2 Although this is "noauto" and the OS should NOT access this device until told so i see the following on bootup while starting the fsck ... inserting floppy driver for 2.2.12 Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a National Semiconductor PC87306 VFS: Disk change detected on device fd(2,0) end_request: I/O error, dev 02:00 (floppy), sector 0 I suppose there is a bug in the fsck/e2fsck which probes a device marked as noauto which is IMHO a bug ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5241-470566 ... The failure can be random; however, when it does occur, it is catastrophic and is repeatable ... Cisco Field Notice
Re: static user IDs
On Tue, Sep 21, 1999 at 10:15:10AM +0200, Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote: > Who will agree with me that > qmail[dsrqlp] should be forbidden > Their existance in /etc/passsd rape me thru my eyes > 6 statics for pacage is a bad idea but > if this package isnt even free they should be > thown out without mercy Agree ... qmail is nice - but it is non-free, nor the default mta for debian. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-5241-470566 ... The failure can be random; however, when it does occur, it is catastrophic and is repeatable ... Cisco Field Notice
