Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 04:49:54PM +, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2016-09-18 09:02:25 -0400 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: > [...] > > There are many, many people who are users of Debian who do not > > contribute to the development of Debian, except possibly by way of > > filing bug reports. > > > > As such, "people making Debian" is at most a subset of "users of > > Debian", not another term for the same set. > [...] > > But (at least in many cases) users with specific needs not being met > by the current developer base are also welcome to participate in > addressing those needs rather than just waiting for someone else to > do it for them. Debian helps those who help themselves. Exactly. To paraphrase JFK: My fellow Debian community, ask not what Debian can do for you, ask what you can do for Debian. Thanks.
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On 2016-09-18 09:02:25 -0400 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote: [...] > There are many, many people who are users of Debian who do not > contribute to the development of Debian, except possibly by way of > filing bug reports. > > As such, "people making Debian" is at most a subset of "users of > Debian", not another term for the same set. [...] But (at least in many cases) users with specific needs not being met by the current developer base are also welcome to participate in addressing those needs rather than just waiting for someone else to do it for them. Debian helps those who help themselves. -- Jeremy Stanley
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
Quoting The Wanderer (2016-09-18 15:02:25) > On 2016-09-18 at 08:40, Santiago Vila wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 02:00:26PM +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote: > > > >> you will end being a community of geeks developing SW for > >> themselves only. > > > > Debian is a volunteer project made by its users. > > > > So we are already a community developing SW for ourselves, the > > users, and there is nothing wrong with that. > > > > Once you realize that "people making Debian" and "its users" are > > really the same thing, you will see why this discussion does not > > make much sense. > > One nitpick: > > There are many, many people who are users of Debian who do not > contribute to the development of Debian, except possibly by way of > filing bug reports. That exception is the whole point. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On 2016-09-18 at 08:40, Santiago Vila wrote: > On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 02:00:26PM +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote: > >> you will end being a community of geeks developing SW for >> themselves only. > > Debian is a volunteer project made by its users. > > So we are already a community developing SW for ourselves, the > users, and there is nothing wrong with that. > > Once you realize that "people making Debian" and "its users" are > really the same thing, you will see why this discussion does not make > much sense. One nitpick: There are many, many people who are users of Debian who do not contribute to the development of Debian, except possibly by way of filing bug reports. As such, "people making Debian" is at most a subset of "users of Debian", not another term for the same set. Yes, the developers of Debian are developing software for themselves - but I'm pretty sure the point of what you quoted is in the word "only", which you omitted from your rephrasing, and I'm not at all sure even all Debian contributors would agree that they are contributing to Debian _only_ for themselves and other Debian contributors. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 02:00:26PM +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote: > you will end being a community of geeks developing SW for themselves only. Debian is a volunteer project made by its users. So we are already a community developing SW for ourselves, the users, and there is nothing wrong with that. Once you realize that "people making Debian" and "its users" are really the same thing, you will see why this discussion does not make much sense. Thanks.
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On Sat, 2016-09-17 at 13:11 +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > On 2016-09-16 21:26, Nicholas D Steeves wrote: > > What about the term client? ;-) > > What about the term "users"? > > (We use the word already in our social contract > and IMHO it serves us well.) I see that most people are interested in the discussion for the sake of discussion. I still received only 1 mail relevant: use strace to debug your problem! you can call it users, I call it customers or public or what ever! If you don't care about users then you will loose them and you be very happy to be anonymous project between billions on the web. When I started using Debian it was because it was a project caring about quality. "We release when we are ready!" was the slogan. Meaning no time frame but quality! Today Users say I can't use your SW anymore because it is freezing and you say we don't sell anything, we don't care. I'll stop talking on this thread. I'll only add comment to the bug report whenever I have more related information to report. You can close it or ignore it. But be sure if you continue doing that and disappointing users, you will end being a community of geeks developing SW for themselves only. It is no more Debian and the biggest OS project, it will be an unknown project with big history showing how we can touch the summit and then fall down! Sorry for that, you can answer or not, I'm not going to read this anymore. -- Cheers, Abou Al Montacir signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian does not have customers, but users
On 2016-09-16 21:26, Nicholas D Steeves wrote: > What about the term client? ;-) What about the term "users"? (We use the word already in our social contract and IMHO it serves us well.)
