On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 03:47 +0100, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
wrote:
> No, it's not, and it's pretty cheap, if done right.
Yes it definitely is, because simply by having gazillions of different
users on the same host, you increase the chance that someone is doing
something stupid, which can
"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" writes:
> What about the enforced replace on dist-upgrade, which at least produces
> lots of extra work and can easily cause systems being unbootable ?
It's an urban legend that people are getting all upset about even though
it's not actually true?
Right now,
On 25.11.2014 16:29, Philip Hands wrote:
> How is it that Debian changing the default for something on some of
What about the enforced replace on dist-upgrade, which at least
produces lots of extra work and can easily cause systems being
unbootable ?
cu
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metux IT consulting
+4
Marco d'Itri, 2014-12-04 23:58:58 +0100 :
> On Dec 04, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
>
>> > While using many more times the resources. You obviously have no idea of
>> > the challenges of providing secure web hosting for non-trivial
>> > quantities of web sites.
>> So what do you want to impl
This one time, at band camp, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult said:
> On 25.11.2014 18:30, Stephen Gran wrote:
>
> > Excellent. I'm sure that if they can create a deb, they can install
> > sysvinit, or runit, or some BSD, or whatever else they want. A default
> > is only a default, after all.
>
"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" writes:
> Same for me. If there really is some functionality which some DEs really
> need, why not having an entirely separate tool for that ?
> Anyways, I still didn't understand why udev is bundled within systemd.
And I don't understand why you think your pe
On Fri, Dec 05, 2014 at 03:58:53AM +0100, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
wrote:
> On 25.11.2014 18:30, Stephen Gran wrote:
>
> > Excellent. I'm sure that if they can create a deb, they can install
> > sysvinit, or runit, or some BSD, or whatever else they want. A default
> > is only a default
On Fri, Dec 05, 2014 at 05:02:27AM +0100, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
wrote:
> On 27.11.2014 11:53, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>
> > Yes, the logind-related parte _could_ be provided elsewhere, but part of
> > the features logind needs is already implemented in systemd.
>
> Can you understand
"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" writes:
> On 27.11.2014 00:29, Noel Torres wrote:
>
>> manpower required to maintain a distribution with more than one init
>> system widey installed, manpower to perform the required changes to
>> support multiple init systems in Jessie, centered about the most
On 27.11.2014 11:53, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Yes, the logind-related parte _could_ be provided elsewhere, but part of
> the features logind needs is already implemented in systemd.
Can you understand, that this method is exactly one of the major reason
why many people dont like the systemd fac
On 27.11.2014 11:18, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>> Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
>> that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
>> provide a modern init system.
>
> I still wonder why there are provided within systemd then.
Same for m
On 27.11.2014 00:29, Noel Torres wrote:
> manpower required to maintain a distribution with more than one init
> system widey installed, manpower to perform the required changes to
> support multiple init systems in Jessie, centered about the most
> important question: our users.
Just curious: ho
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Is this an purely optional program, or does gnome itself depend on it ?
Please review the dependencies of the gnome metapackage.
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On 25.11.2014 18:30, Stephen Gran wrote:
> Excellent. I'm sure that if they can create a deb, they can install
> sysvinit, or runit, or some BSD, or whatever else they want. A default
> is only a default, after all.
Just curious about the term "default":
Can I still install a system w/o system
On 04.12.2014 22:23, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> Apart from that, when you speak of "non-trivial" quantities - I'd
> probably say that running gazillion websites from different entities on
> one host is generally a really bad idea.
No, it's not, and it's pretty cheap, if done right.
Severa
On 02.12.2014 06:01, Paul Wise wrote:
>> gnome depends on apache ?
>
> gnome-user-share uses apache2 to share files on the local network via WebDAV.
Is this an purely optional program, or does gnome itself depend on it ?
>> seriously ?
>
> Sharing files with other computers on the local networ
Christoph Anton Mitterer writes:
> On Thu, 2014-12-04 at 21:14 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> FastCGI is another thing that almost nobody can afford when hosting a
>> significant number of web sites.
> Why not?
> When I've investigated in mod-php vs. cgi vs. fcgi, the fcgi turned out
> to have
On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 22:23:15 +0100, Christoph Anton Mitterer
wrote:
>Apart from that, when you speak of "non-trivial" quantities - I'd
>probably say that running gazillion websites from different entities on
>one host is generally a really bad idea.
Gazillions of websites are served from such set
On Dec 04, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> > While using many more times the resources. You obviously have no idea of
> > the challenges of providing secure web hosting for non-trivial
> > quantities of web sites.
> So what do you want to imply would be secure?
The point is not just "secure",
On Thu, 2014-12-04 at 21:14 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> While using many more times the resources. You obviously have no idea of
> the challenges of providing secure web hosting for non-trivial
> quantities of web sites.
So what do you want to imply would be secure?
Apart from that, when you s
On Thu, 2014-12-04 at 17:03 +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> If you can run a CGI inside a chroot/container/whatever, you can run a
> small web server on a local port / Unix socket, and reverse-proxy it,
> just as easily.
Well that's probably roughly the same, although I'd still feel better if
web
Hi,
Marco d'Itri:
> On Dec 04, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>
> > If you can run a CGI inside a chroot/container/whatever, you can run a
> > small web server on a local port / Unix socket, and reverse-proxy it,
> > just as easily.
> While using many more times the resources.
Which "many more" are yo
On Dec 04, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> If you can run a CGI inside a chroot/container/whatever, you can run a
> small web server on a local port / Unix socket, and reverse-proxy it,
> just as easily.
While using many more times the resources. You obviously have no idea of
the challenges of providi
Hi,
Christoph Anton Mitterer:
> For many things, CGI is actually the only way to run them securely,
> since it's the only way to run foreign processes in a container
> environment (chroots, etc.) or with user privilege separation.
?
If you can run a CGI inside a chroot/container/whatever, you ca
On 28.11.2014 19:09, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> For many things, CGI is actually the only way to run them securely,
> since it's the only way to run foreign processes in a container
> environment (chroots, etc.) or with user privilege separation.
Not entirely true. About a decade ago, I've
On 29.11.2014 20:45, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> As for Systemd being the default (on Debian GNU/Linux,
> specifically), – I guess I shouldn’t bother. GNOME is also the
> default, but I cannot readily recall ever having it running on
> my Debian installs.
>
By the way: didn't
On 29.11.2014 20:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> The best for kFreeBSD and Hurd would be to abandoning the Debian ship.
> It is sinking :( (just let the devuan people get things in order first)
Well, I'll also put my projecsts on getting rid of polkit into that
direction. Why ? Because I've got the i
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> On 27.11.2014 02:18, Josh Triplett wrote:
>
>> gnome Depends: gnome-core, which Depends: gnome-user-share, which
>> Depends: apache2-bin (or apache2.2-bin in stable, which is a
>> transitional package depending on apache2-bin in unstable).
>
On 27.11.2014 02:18, Josh Triplett wrote:
> gnome Depends: gnome-core, which Depends: gnome-user-share, which
> Depends: apache2-bin (or apache2.2-bin in stable, which is a
> transitional package depending on apache2-bin in unstable).
gnome depends on apache ?
seriously ?
cu
--
Enrico Weigelt,
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Noel Torres wrote:
> Contributing code is not the only way to contribute to Debian. At least to the
> Debian I love. Please come out of the developer shell. Translators, e.g. are a
> very important part of the project, even if they have not been give the same
> voti
On Sunday, 30 de November de 2014 18:05:54 Neil Williams escribió:
[...]
> Contribute code or stop wasting everyone's time on the mailing lists.
Contributing code is not the only way to contribute to Debian. At least to the
Debian I love. Please come out of the developer shell. Translators, e.g.
Hi,
Thorsten Glaser:
> > Axel Wagner
> *plonk*
There have been much worse emails here than calling somebody a troll for
intentionally posting misleading information.
If it quacks like a duck, and all that.
The only other reason for you to plonk Axel I could find (after reading the
last couple o
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014, Axel Wagner wrote:
[…]
> Axel Wagner
*plonk*
Congrats, you’re the second person, after Josselin.
(No, this eMail was not the only one, just the one to trigger overflow.)
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On Sat, 29 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> The best for kFreeBSD and Hurd would be to abandoning the Debian ship.
No.
> It is sinking
It has sunk, but not gone underwater yet completely.
> (just let the devuan people get things in order first)
And can you *please* *stop* the devuan trolling
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 04:40:50PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > Hey, there are *still* bugs found because of s390 (not s390x).
>
> Uhm. s390x is 64bit BE; ppc64 and sparc64 never made it into the archive.
Sure, but I was thinking of other issues, l
Am Sonntag, 30. November 2014, 21:54:09 schrieb Josselin Mouette:
> Le dimanche 30 novembre 2014 à 19:59 +0100, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> > You complain about people blaming Debian, or more exactly Debian technical
> > committee and GR decisions, for their decision to leave. Yes, it is
> > any
Le dimanche 30 novembre 2014 à 19:59 +0100, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> You complain about people blaming Debian, or more exactly Debian technical
> committee and GR decisions, for their decision to leave. Yes, it is anyone´s
> decision to leave. No one to blame for it.
>
> But that also work
Am Sonntag, 30. November 2014, 18:05:54 schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:59:06 +
>
> Noel Torres wrote:
[…]
> Debian:
> > If you want to help our users, you
> > can contribute to debianfork, or you can improve your packages in
> > Debian. But spreading your bitterness on develo
On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:59:06 +
Noel Torres wrote:
> On Friday, 28 de November de 2014 07:45:29 Josselin Mouette escribió:
> [...]
> > This is nothing short of bullying. If you want to help our users,
> > you can contribute to debianfork, or you can improve your packages
> > in Debian. But spr
On Friday, 28 de November de 2014 07:45:29 Josselin Mouette escribió:
[...]
> This is nothing short of bullying. If you want to help our users, you
> can contribute to debianfork, or you can improve your packages in
> Debian. But spreading your bitterness on development forums is only
> about hurti
Le samedi 29 novembre 2014 à 16:37 +, Ivan Shmakov a écrit :
> > Josselin Mouette writes:
>
> […]
>
> > Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> > that could be provided elsewhere.
>
> Is that “use” as in “if available” or is that actually “require
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
[…]
>>> The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
>>> discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd
Martin Steigerwald writes:
> Oh, holy… this… isn´t… true? Is it?
No, it isn't.
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Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 20:30:07 schrieb Svante Signell:
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-
Szmek:
> > New
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:30:07PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew
> > > Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
>
Hi,
Svante Signell writes:
> Have you seen this?
> http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2014-11.html#e2014-11-23T09_26_01.txt
I started reading and I just had to stop after the first few sentences,
where the author quotes the specification clearly out of context to
imply a cont
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:27 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> >
> > […]
> >
> > > The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> > > discussed. There ar
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> New dbus client library is also slated to become
> public when its ready an
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
>
> […]
>
> > The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> > discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd is
> > Linux only. And the potential "
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
[…]
> The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd is
> Linux only. And the potential "recepients", like BSD, don't seem to
> be interested anyway.
Unles
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> Josselin Mouette writes:
[…]
> Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> that could be provided elsewhere.
Is that “use” as in “if available” or is that actually “require
and be sure to die unless provided”?
(Please forgive my ignora
Hi,
Cameron Norman writes:
> Do you really think logind and systemd are the only pieces of C
> software that struggle with strings or config parsing? Those are
> definitely a couple of things that could be split out into a separate
> library so we all do not have to either (a) suffer through it,
Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> > binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no
>
❦ 28 novembre 2014 22:21 +0100, Marc Haber :
>>So what? You can also use systemd without using the tools for NTP,
>>network configuration, or the journal.
>
> Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> surely possible?
systemd-timesyncd and systemd-networkd are disab
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 23:49:58 +0100, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>I think he meant systemd, the PID 1 specifically here.
No.
Greetings
Marc
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Mannh
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>> And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
>> binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no avail.
> OK
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no avail.
OK, since this is a different forum, let me go over the reasons once again.
Marc Haber writes:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:28:19 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
> wrote:
>>Marc Haber writes:
>>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
>>> wrote:
Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
some often-useful CGI scripts?
>>>
>>> I am pr
2014-11-28 23:29 GMT+01:00 Adam Borowski :
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:36:22PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> > Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
>> > surely possible?
>>
>> Much easier. Note that if y
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:36:22PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> > surely possible?
>
> Much easier. Note that if you want GNOME without systemd, it required
> actu
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> surely possible?
Much easier. Note that if you want GNOME without systemd, it required
actual effort instead of doing petty jabs on mailing lists. Actual
effort was
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:28:19 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
>> wrote:
>>> Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>>> some often-useful CGI scripts?
>>
>> I am pretty sure that the apache peopl
Am Freitag, 28. November 2014, 09:28:39 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> Hi,
>
> Martin Steigerwald:
> > Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 22:30:15 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> > > ❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald
:
> > > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is i
Marc Haber writes:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
> wrote:
>> Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>> some often-useful CGI scripts?
>
> I am pretty sure that the apache people would include them with a way
> to disable them just in case on
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 04:40:50PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Hey, there are *still* bugs found because of s390 (not s390x).
Uhm. s390x is 64bit BE; ppc64 and sparc64 never made it into the archive.
Kind regards
Philipp Kern
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:03:14PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> It's not that anybody needs to listen, but nobody is going to tell me
> to shut up just because I only know how the result of a job should
> look like without being able to do the job myself.
Having a detailed discussion about how syste
Hi,
Marc Haber writes:
> Your way of communicating is hurting people as usual. Please stop.
I respectfully disagree. There was imho nothing in the quoted message
that would warrant a reaction like this.
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On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 19:05 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> And I am also pretty sure that they would not de-implement the Common
> Gateway Interface just because people still like to run vulnerable
> Matt Wright Scripts from 2002.
For many things, CGI is actually the only way to run them securely,
si
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 08:45:29 +0100, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>There is nothing in the FUD that’s still being spread that hasn’t been
>entirely debunked almost a year ago in
>https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd
>I have nothing to add to what we wrote at that time.
>
>And I’m tired of p
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
wrote:
>Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>some often-useful CGI scripts?
I am pretty sure that the apache people would include them with a way
to disable them just in case one does not want them.
And I am a
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:20:22 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>If you want to convince the systemd people to split that part of systemd-
>-as-pid1 off to a separate library, and/or to properly version that API,
>you should submit an appropriate patch
You see, I have been an architect and a sysadmi
The mailinglist of Devuan is not hosted "elsewhere" - it's hosted on the
infrastructure of another GNU/Linux Distribution.
Just call dyne.org in the browser ...
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> > Github? Ugh! http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/free-software-needs-free-tools
> This has just started, give them some time, please.
No. If they even consider things like this, there is something
seriously wrong right in the beginning.
> Maybe it would b
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 13:48 +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and Developers
> > will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the users). Future will
>
> I’ll tell you in the present.
>
>
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Hash: SHA1
Hi,
On 28.11.2014 09:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> The official name of the Debian fork is devuan: https://devuan.org
> It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and
> Developers will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the
> u
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and Developers
> will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the users). Future will
I’ll tell you in the present.
Github? Ugh! http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/free-software-needs-free-tools
Hi,
Marc Haber:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:53:18 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
> wrote:
> >Yes, the logind-related parte _could_ be provided elsewhere, but part of
> >the features logind needs is already implemented in systemd. So using that
> >instead of rolling your own from scratch is simply common se
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 08:45 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le jeudi 27 novembre 2014 à 21:29 +0100, Marc Haber a écrit :
> > On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
> If you want to help our users, you
> can contribute to debianfork, or you can improve your packages in
> Debian.
Hi,
Martin Steigerwald:
> Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 22:30:15 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> > ❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald :
> > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> > > binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well…
> >
> > Wild guess:
Le jeudi 27 novembre 2014 à 21:29 +0100, Marc Haber a écrit :
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
> >Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> >that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
> >provide a modern init sys
It took me time to realize why writing the below didn't feel right in
some uneasy way. That's because, allthough being logically completely
correct (I boldly assert here...), what I wrote below completely misses
the essence and is therefor just bullshit, which we can have a good
laugh about. And th
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 22:30:15 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> ❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald :
> > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> > binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well…
>
> Wild guess: because it manages processes like PID
Marc Haber writes:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
>>Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
>>that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
>>provide a modern init system.
>
> Why does it initialize the network, p
❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald :
> And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well…
Wild guess: because it manages processes like PID 1?
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2.0.38 /usr/src/lin
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 21:29:40 schrieb Marc Haber:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
>
> wrote:
> >Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> >that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
> >provide a modern init
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:53:18 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>Yes, the logind-related parte _could_ be provided elsewhere, but part of
>the features logind needs is already implemented in systemd. So using that
>instead of rolling your own from scratch is simply common sense.
It would be common se
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
>that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
>provide a modern init system.
Why does it initialize the network, provide an NTP implementation a
Hi,
Martin Steigerwald:
> > What exactly _is_ the point? It's one git repository instead of five, but
> > what (technical) problem would having five repos and five Debian source
> > packages, instead of one, actually solve?
> >
> > IMHO: None at all. Instead it creates busy-work, and a testing he
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 14:28:01 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> Martin Steigerwald:
> > But I think for most of the people that dislike systemd this is the main
> > concern: systemd is a lot of system building blocks in *one* repository
> > and
> > *one* debian package and while they may be
Hi,
Martin Steigerwald:
> But I think for most of the people that dislike systemd this is the main
> concern: systemd is a lot of system building blocks in *one* repository and
> *one* debian package and while they may be separatable they are not separated.
>
> But well, its an upstream topic a
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 11:53:18 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> Hi,
Hi Matthias,
> Martin Steigerwald:
> > > Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> > > that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
> > > provide a modern init system.
>
Am 27.11.2014 um 01:19 schrieb Josselin Mouette:
> Yes, yes, and yes. This needs to be put in a frame and bashed in the
> head of anyone who keeps repeating that systemd is about GNOME.
What about the idea of being mindful of the tone of your conversation
and keeping it conciously moderate, Jossel
Hi,
Martin Steigerwald:
> > Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> > that could be provided elsewhere. The real purpose of systemd is to
> > provide a modern init system.
>
> I still wonder why there are provided within systemd then.
>
Yes, the logind-related part
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 01:19:14 schrieb Josselin Mouette:
> Le mercredi 26 novembre 2014 à 16:05 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> > And many of us who actually *are* Debian server administrators have said
> > repeatedly that your gut is wrong, in the innumerable versions of this
> > conve
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Noel Torres wrote:
> Exactly. Who they are? The people who chose Debian, are they laptop users?
> desktop users? sysadmins? The question is important.
All of the people you mention choose Debian.
It is impossible to know who they are though, except for people who
Josh Triplett writes:
> gnome Depends: gnome-core, which Depends: gnome-user-share, which
> Depends: apache2-bin (or apache2.2-bin in stable, which is a
> transitional package depending on apache2-bin in unstable).
Also, just in general, popcon is not going to be particularly helpful in
getting
Every Desktop-user who has a printer also needs a webserver since CUPS
has its own webinterface ... ;)
Am 27.11.2014 um 02:18 schrieb Josh Triplett:
> gnome Depends: gnome-core, which Depends: gnome-user-share, which
> Depends: apache2-bin (or apache2.2-bin in stable, which is a
> transitional pa
Russ Allbery's response already refuted the general approach of
attempting to create artificial divisiveness between Debian users, but
in addition to that, I'd like to refute a specific bit of misinformation
from this mail:
Noel Torres wrote:
> But we can have estimates. popcon gives us 98681 inst
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 04:05:55PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Noel Torres writes:
>
> > It is a gut feeling also, and one that has been widely expresed by
> > others, (with better and worse words) that Debian server admins will not
> > be pleased with an init system which is bigger and does not
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