Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
assuming for a second that you are not trolling, On 2014-02-28 12:56, Solal Rastier wrote: Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... hmm. but since both contrib and non-free are not part of Debian, how does the existence of these sections lead to the conclusion that Debian is proprietary. another random example: the existence of ubuntu does not mean, that Debian is (say) owned by canonical. fgsdfm IOhannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53147ca0.1070...@umlaeute.mur.at
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Le 3 mars 2014 à 13:59, forum::für::umläute zmoel...@umlaeute.mur.at a écrit : assuming for a second that you are not trolling, On 2014-02-28 12:56, Solal Rastier wrote: Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... hmm. but since both contrib and non-free are not part of Debian, how does the existence of these sections lead to the conclusion that Debian is proprietary. another random example: the existence of ubuntu does not mean, that Debian is (say) owned by canonical. fgsdfm IOhannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53147ca0.1070...@umlaeute.mur.at The installer recommend contrib and nonfree... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/143de185-efa2-491f-ae20-404e83cdd...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
On 2014-03-03 14:16, Solal Rastier wrote: The installer recommend contrib and nonfree... so what are the consequences? does it force you to follow the recommendations? btw, i never noticed that the installer recommends contrib or nonfree. afair, i had to enable them manually. fgadmf IOhannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53148a13.5090...@umlaeute.mur.at
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
On 2014-03-03 14:56, forum::für::umläute wrote: On 2014-03-03 14:16, Solal Rastier wrote: The installer recommend contrib and nonfree... so what are the consequences? does it force you to follow the recommendations? this sounds a bit snarky, but is not (really) intended to do so. the point is: the suggestions by the installer are there to make an easy installation experience for those who don't want to be bothered too much by configuration details (disclaimer: afaict! i have not been involved in the process of chosing recommendations). if you don't like the suggestions, don't follow them. fgmasdr IOhannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/531490c3.5060...@umlaeute.mur.at
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 02:16:37PM +0100, Solal Rastier wrote: The installer recommend contrib and nonfree... No, it does not. -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140303144513.ga10...@grep.be
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Hello, El 28/02/2014 11:36, Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com escribió: Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? The reply was given at this thread. There are people that think like you (if you think that should be removed). See gnewsense [1], maybe you prefer that distro than Debian. Regards, [1] http://www.gnewsense.org/Documentation/3/AboutgNewSense/TechnologyBackground
contrib and nonfree distribs
Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/db2f0f4e-6f63-4246-a1cd-7a509f378...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Hello, On 28 February 2014 10:35, Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com wrote: Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? Could you please elaborate your question? -- Cheers, Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacujmdpoq-vdakswr07ds6xtoe+uynt-fxu_d-nf7a_t7uh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Le vendredi 28 février 2014 à 10:35 +0100, Solal Rastier a écrit : Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? Maybe because of http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=firmware-nonfree or http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=flashplugin-nonfree Cheers, -- .''`.Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393584238.21499.315.camel@dsp0698014
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
* Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com, 2014-02-28, 10:35: Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? https://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140228110811.ga6...@jwilk.net
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Op vrijdag 28 februari 2014 10:35:15 schreef Solal Rastier: Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? Because unfortunately the free software foundation believes documentation doesn't need to be free, and we can't put non-free documentation in main. -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1694.my3zqxp...@grep.be
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... Le 28 févr. 2014 à 12:46, Wouter Verhelst w...@uter.be a écrit : Op vrijdag 28 februari 2014 12:42:39 schreef u: The FSF believe documentation need to be free, and that's true... It is true that it needs to be free, but their license just isn't free: https://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/4e9bee82-8ef2-4c11-80fc-9a7d55746...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Le 28/02/2014 12:56, Solal Rastier a écrit : Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... I applause this almost inconspicuous troll attempt. Please don't top-post. http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html Regards. PS: full stop. Le 28 févr. 2014 à 12:46, Wouter Verhelst w...@uter.be a écrit : Op vrijdag 28 februari 2014 12:42:39 schreef u: The FSF believe documentation need to be free, and that's true... It is true that it needs to be free, but their license just isn't free: https://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
In data venerdì 28 febbraio 2014 10.35.15, Solal Rastier ha scritto: Why the nonfree and contrib distributions aren't removed? don't feed the troll please -- Salvo Tomaselli Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno. -- Galileo Galilei http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1465047.sfXNKgKoSu@vulcano
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
1. I'm not a troll 2. What is top-post? 3. Why I need stop? Le 28 févr. 2014 à 13:10, Thibaut Paumard thib...@debian.org a écrit : Le 28/02/2014 12:56, Solal Rastier a écrit : Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... I applause this almost inconspicuous troll attempt. Please don't top-post. http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html Regards. PS: full stop. Le 28 févr. 2014 à 12:46, Wouter Verhelst w...@uter.be a écrit : Op vrijdag 28 februari 2014 12:42:39 schreef u: The FSF believe documentation need to be free, and that's true... It is true that it needs to be free, but their license just isn't free: https://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 -- This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today. -- http://xkcd.com/1133/
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
That's not an answer. For users, that doesn't change anything. Le 28 févr. 2014 à 15:20, Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org a écrit : Solal Rastier, le Fri 28 Feb 2014 12:56:00 +0100, a écrit : Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... contrib and non-free are not part of Debian releases. Really, read about GR etc. Samuel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/aea50c09-f7b6-4bc3-821b-88ce3875e...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
I not compare Debian with Windows. The FSF publishes a GNU/Linux freedom indicator. Debian is proprietary, sorry. Le 28 févr. 2014 à 18:24, Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org a écrit : On 02/28/2014 05:18 AM, Solal Rastier wrote: 1. I'm not a troll 2. What is top-post? 3. Why I need stop? Hi, Solal. I'm not a Debian Developer, just a user, but let me take an attempt to explain what happened, and please don't take this the wrong way. I'll address each part of the issue without sugar-coating anything. Please don't take it the wrong way. Debian is not proprietary or closed software. There is a lot of effort put by the whole Debian team in making sure licenses are not violated while keeping software fully free, always. If you knew Debian just a little bit you would know this. However, you said: Further proof that Debian is proprietary software.. Where did that come from? Initially you asked why were not the other areas removed, which is a valid question despite having no context at all, and suddenly there is an accusation? Are you seriously comparing Debian with Windows? You see, if you want to prove a point you get your facts straight first. If you want to get answers you use questions, not accusations or false statements. Just by this alone, you fit the troll profile: a person that just comes in to raise useless discussion with no beneficial outcome, not even for himself, even more if it's accusation-based. About top-posting: in the message from Thibaut you were given a link regarding top-posting. You ignored it (proved by the fact that you are now asking what it is instead of having it read). You may have not seen it of found it too long, but you didn't even Google for it (you would have found at least a Wikipedia article about this with a more friendly explanation). You just don't care to do your part of the job. Now, to your question: Packages in the other archive areas (contrib, non-free) are not considered to be part of the Debian distribution... [1]. First match in Google for debian main contrib non-free. ... we also provide packages in separate sections that cannot be included in the main distribution due to either a restrictive license or legal issues. They include: [explanation continues]... [2]. Second match in the same Google search. [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html [2] https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages This should *at least* make it clear that contrib *is* open and free, what the sections are, and what they are for. Imagine a program that is GPL but includes images that are redistributable but not modifiable, the images go into non-free. There is not a license violation and it doesn't make the program proprietary, much less the whole Debian. Now, my question to you is: how does the non-free and contrib areas make the whole project proprietary, considering that those are not even part of the Debian project? And how does that prove --using your words-- it? Finally, you just replied with: That's not an answer. For users, that doesn't change anything. Again, trolling. Now you are *demanding* a good answer despite not asking a good question. We are not mind readers. You should *really* look for and read and take the time to ask. Explain what your doubt is and provide the relevant context to your question. You'll get a reply as useful as your question. A vague question will give you a vague answer at best. An accusive question will get you an accusive answer at best. (Personally, I didn't even understand your reply: if that is not an answer, and you were already given other answers, that *what* is an answer for you? For *what* users, that doesn't change anything? *What* do users want to have changed? I only perceive a defense for who-knows-what in your reply.) Anyway, my two cents. All help and questions are welcome, but some are useful than others. Just don't get defensive and do your part of the job. Remember that people are volunteers and they work on Debian mostly on their free time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/544bef2c-c875-4ee5-87ed-948eb4d36...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Le 28 févr. 2014 à 19:22, Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org a écrit : On 02/28/2014 09:29 AM, Solal Rastier wrote: I not compare Debian with Windows. The FSF publishes a GNU/Linux freedom indicator. Debian is proprietary, sorry. Ah! The FSF website [1] says otherwise. The FSF website acknowledges Debian as Free Software as in conscientiously keeps nonfree software out of the official Debian system, but it does not endorse it (by the title of the Web page). [1] https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html See? Get your facts straight. It's not the same not to endorse than to it is proprietary. Also, non-free is not the same as proprietary. Windows is not even in the list because it *is* proprietary, flat. By stating Debian is proprietary you are, in fact, comparing Debian licensing with Windows licensing. You are saying that Debian is as proprietary as Windows. Again, get your facts straight or nobody will care. And please (and this has nothing to do with Free or Open-Source Software at all), next time, if I reply off-list to have a private conversation, please be respectful and keep my response off-list. Finally, you still top-posted. Do you even understand what that is, at least? Do you accept now that you behaved like a troll? My mail client top-posting automtically. I don't compare Windows and Debian. Windows is proprietariest than Debian, but Debian isn't 100% free. Now, think about the utility of contrib and nonfree. We must create free replacements to proprietary, not put proprietary in Debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/6e00bfce-0973-4a8b-ac63-6ff7a8cd6...@me.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
Hi Solal, 2014-02-28 19:24 GMT+01:00 Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com: Le 28 févr. 2014 à 19:22, Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org a écrit : On 02/28/2014 09:29 AM, Solal Rastier wrote: My mail client top-posting automtically. I don't compare Windows and Debian. Windows is proprietariest than Debian, but Debian isn't 100% free. Now, think about the utility of contrib and nonfree. We must create free replacements to proprietary, not put proprietary in Debian. You are enthusiasm is welcome. Your help in improving free replacements would also be appreciated. There are pages for people who would like to start contributing to Debian, they may be interesting for you: https://www.debian.org/intro/help https://wiki.debian.org/how-can-i-help The more we improve Free Software, the sooner we can remove non-free(/contrib) parts of Debian. Cheers, Balint -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cak0odpxj2e8qtmx8i1fbdjrmezd6y2qufffdgqh-on1xg9j...@mail.gmail.com
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 20:21:13 +0100 Bálint Réczey bal...@balintreczey.hu wrote: Hi Solal, 2014-02-28 19:24 GMT+01:00 Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com: Le 28 févr. 2014 à 19:22, Octavio Alvarez alvar...@alvarezp.ods.org a écrit : On 02/28/2014 09:29 AM, Solal Rastier wrote: My mail client top-posting automtically. I don't compare Windows and Debian. Windows is proprietariest than Debian, but Debian isn't 100% free. Now, think about the utility of contrib and nonfree. We must create free replacements to proprietary, not put proprietary in Debian. Additionally I would like to say that Debian is a software distribution, not a project for creating new software. So it seems like a little bit out of scope to write new software. So like Balint says when there are good replacements, they will be happily included. I want to note at this point that the FSF isn't the ultimate resource for deciding what Free Software is and what not. There are many (well, at least me) people who don't agree with the explanation why Debian isn't free software. You could even argue that it wouldn't be free NOT to include non-free software into the Debian archives. Because (so one could argue) it would take away your freedom (which is all the FSF is reasoning about) to install non-free software through apt-get. You are enthusiasm is welcome. Your help in improving free replacements would also be appreciated. There are pages for people who would like to start contributing to Debian, they may be interesting for you: https://www.debian.org/intro/help https://wiki.debian.org/how-can-i-help The more we improve Free Software, the sooner we can remove non-free(/contrib) parts of Debian. Cheers, Balint signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: contrib and nonfree distribs
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Solal Rastier solal.rast...@me.com wrote: That's not an answer. For users, that doesn't change anything. Le 28 févr. 2014 à 15:20, Samuel Thibault sthiba...@debian.org a écrit : Solal Rastier, le Fri 28 Feb 2014 12:56:00 +0100, a écrit : Further proof that Debian is proprietary software... contrib and non-free are not part of Debian releases. Really, read about GR etc. Samuel Wait a moment ... Are you trying to say that users don't need flashplayer? I tend to differ - unfortunately too many websites still need it, and gnash is not exactly a replacement (unless you mean being few times as slow as flashplayer is acceptable... even when performance of flashplayer itself is bad at best) [this is slightly better now with html5 slowly taking over places where flashplayer was used previously] Documentation from FSF is another thing. Some hardware also needs proprietary firmware and drivers - surely you are not going to say that users don't want their GPU to be able to render 3D?? or that they don't need wifi connections ??? And you are not going to say that users don't want steam, are you? Also being ABLE to install nonfree software doesn't mean that Debian itself is proprietary software... (also most (if not all) of distros marked as free by FSF are breaking DFSG guidelines so they are proprietary too) And I had to bite the catch and feed tusseladd ... ;( -- darkestkhan -- Feel free to CC me. jid: darkestk...@gmail.com May The Source be with You. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CACRpbMi8hjs1GW=ch_l42+yocm8wcjdzwh3cphrrmnfbpcw...@mail.gmail.com
