Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Peter Palfrader]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2017, Peter Palfrader wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Mar 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Saturday 2015-11-07, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > > The Debian Project now has an XMPP service available to all Debian
> > > Developers.  Your Debian.org email identity can be used as your XMPP
> > > address.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, as of a few weeks ago, spammers have started to send messages
> > through the debian.org XMPP service.
> > 
> > Can DSA please implement some form of spam filtering on this service?
> 
> No, it's not a DSA service.

(It's run on DSA infrastructure but maintained by a dedicated team.
These should be your primary points of contact.)
-- 
|  .''`.   ** Debian **
  Peter Palfrader   | : :' :  The  universal
 https://www.palfrader.org/ | `. `'  Operating System
|   `-https://www.debian.org/

Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Peter Palfrader]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Saturday 2015-11-07, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > The Debian Project now has an XMPP service available to all Debian
> > Developers.  Your Debian.org email identity can be used as your XMPP
> > address.
> 
> Unfortunately, as of a few weeks ago, spammers have started to send messages
> through the debian.org XMPP service.
> 
> Can DSA please implement some form of spam filtering on this service?

No, it's not a DSA service.
-- 
|  .''`.   ** Debian **
  Peter Palfrader   | : :' :  The  universal
 https://www.palfrader.org/ | `. `'  Operating System
|   `-https://www.debian.org/

Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

On Saturday 2015-11-07, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> The Debian Project now has an XMPP service available to all Debian
> Developers.  Your Debian.org email identity can be used as your XMPP
> address.

Unfortunately, as of a few weeks ago, spammers have started to send messages
through the debian.org XMPP service.

Can DSA please implement some form of spam filtering on this service?

Thanks,

-- 
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
   people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
   and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
 -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Ingo Jürgensmann]

Am 21.11.2015 um 13:50 schrieb Pirate Praveen :

> On 2015, നവംബർ 21 5:20:27 PM IST, "Ingo Jürgensmann" 
>  wrote:
> >Maybe someone can setup a service or tool that logs into your old XMPP
> >contact and either forwards incoming messages from your old XMPP
> >account to the new one or gives the other users some kind of automated
> >notification that you can reached now at the other address…
> There is an xep for sharing contacts, no idea which clients support it though.
> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0144.html

Well, sharing contacts is one thing. In most cases you can export your roster 
and import it somewhere else, but the main problem is that you need all your 
contacts to use your new XMPP instead of your old. That’s the real problem, I 
think. 

-- 
Ciao...  //http://blog.windfluechter.net
  Ingo \X/ XMPP: i...@jabber.windfluechter.net


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Wookey]

+++ Ingo Jürgensmann [2015-11-21 14:50 +0100]:

> Well, sharing contacts is one thing. In most cases you can export your roster 
> and import it somewhere else, but the main problem is that you need all your 
> contacts to use your new XMPP instead of your old. That’s the real problem, I 
> think. 

Which makes change awkward for the same reason that changing phone
number, email address, house, or bank account is a pain: everyone else
has to discover/change at their end.

All these things have a lot of 'stickiness' built-in so people don't change 
lightly. 

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM
http://wookware.org/


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Luca Filipozzi]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 12:59:56PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> I'd assume same rule applies for chat as we already have for email: 
> Debian resources are for Debian work, not private or business use.
> ...which implies it is gone when you stop being part of Debian.

Yes.

> If my assumption is correct, then instead of talking specifically about 
> guarantees for XMPP I recommend that we instead talk about a) which 
> places currently mentions email policy, b) whether those places should 
> be updated to explicitly mention XMPP (or perhaps oppositely stop being 
> explicit about email), and c) whether we wanna change that policy.

The DMUP (https://www.debian.org/devel/dmup) is sufficiently general to cover
XMPP.  We don't need to explicitly call out XMPP.

IMO, we don't need to relax the policy to allow non-Debian use of Debian
resources.  That would be the Wrong Thing To Do®.

-- 
Luca Filipozzi
http://www.crowdrise.com/SupportDebian


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Sat, Nov 07, 2015 at 12:05:16PM +, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> The Debian Project now has an XMPP service available to all Debian
> Developers.  Your Debian.org email identity can be used as your XMPP
> address.

Thanks to everyone involved, this is a great milestone for the Debian
Project.

I've a couple of questions:

- Do we offer any reasonable guarantee about the long term availability
  of the XMPP service, e.g., for people that stop being Debian Project
  Members?

  I guess the answer here is "no", and it's a reasonable one. But we
  should be clear on the matter, as it might affect people's decision on
  whether switching to @debian.org as their main XMPP contact or not.

- Can you recommend best practices and/or tools for migrating from a
  primary XMPP identity to a new one?

  I (shamefully) still use an @gmail.com address as my main XMPP
  identity and I've been looking into migrating away since quite a
  while. But I've hundreds of contact there and I don't really know how
  to minimize their (and mine) pain during a migration. If anyone have
  tips, I'll be very glad to hear about them.

Cheers.
-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli  . . . . . . .  z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o
Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o
Former Debian Project Leader . . . . . @zacchiro . . . . o o o . . . o .
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Ingo Jürgensmann]

Am 21.11.2015 um 12:31 schrieb Stefano Zacchiroli :

> - Do we offer any reasonable guarantee about the long term availability
>  of the XMPP service, e.g., for people that stop being Debian Project
>  Members?
> 
>  I guess the answer here is "no", and it's a reasonable one. But we
>  should be clear on the matter, as it might affect people's decision on
>  whether switching to @debian.org as their main XMPP contact or not.

I would expect that only active DD/Contributors/… are reachable via a 
debian.org XMPP address. The same as it is for mail addresses. 

> - Can you recommend best practices and/or tools for migrating from a
>  primary XMPP identity to a new one?
> 
>  I (shamefully) still use an @gmail.com address as my main XMPP
>  identity and I've been looking into migrating away since quite a
>  while. But I've hundreds of contact there and I don't really know how
>  to minimize their (and mine) pain during a migration. If anyone have
>  tips, I'll be very glad to hear about them.

This, indeed, is an interesting question and challenging task. I’ve been using 
the below mentioned XMPP address for years now, but since I migrated from 
Openfire to Prosody I’m able to provide an XMPP address for every domain I 
host. Having one single point of contact (mail address) for mail, XMPP and SIP 
is what users usually want. I see this at my work place as well: people don’t 
like to tell others „you can reach me by mail at this address, but when you 
want me to contact by Jabber then use the other address, oh, and when you want 
to call me, then use another address…“ They usually want to tell others „Hey, 
you can reach me at this address…“ (no matter of which protocol you are using).

So, migrating XMPP contacts is difficult and I have no better idea than writing 
them a message that you moved over to a new address. This is similar to the 
migration process when getting a new cell phone number. 
Maybe someone can setup a service or tool that logs into your old XMPP contact 
and either forwards incoming messages from your old XMPP account to the new one 
or gives the other users some kind of automated notification that you can 
reached now at the other address… 

But in the end I expect people to be reached until their mail address, 
regardless of which protocol I want to use. This will take some time, but I 
think it’s the way to go. So the service Daniel set up with XMPP and RTC is the 
right thing. Huge leap forward for Debian, I think! :-) 

-- 
Ciao...  //http://blog.windfluechter.net
  Ingo \X/ XMPP: i...@jabber.windfluechter.net


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Marc Haber]

On Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:59:56 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard 
wrote:
>You probably should only extend, not migrate - see above.

Is there finally a possibility to have XMPP messages forwarded from
one XMPP account to another, or is it still expected that one
configures _all_ clients for _all_ accounts, having multiple rosters
etc bla foo?

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Stefano Zacchiroli (2015-11-21 12:31:45)
> On Sat, Nov 07, 2015 at 12:05:16PM +, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> The Debian Project now has an XMPP service available to all Debian 
>> Developers.  Your Debian.org email identity can be used as your XMPP 
>> address.
>
> Thanks to everyone involved, this is a great milestone for the Debian 
> Project.
>
> I've a couple of questions:
>
> - Do we offer any reasonable guarantee about the long term 
>   availability of the XMPP service, e.g., for people that stop being 
>   Debian Project Members?
>
>   I guess the answer here is "no", and it's a reasonable one. But we 
>   should be clear on the matter, as it might affect people's decision 
>   on whether switching to @debian.org as their main XMPP contact or 
>   not.

I'd assume same rule applies for chat as we already have for email: 
Debian resources are for Debian work, not private or business use.
...which implies it is gone when you stop being part of Debian.

If my assumption is correct, then instead of talking specifically about 
guarantees for XMPP I recommend that we instead talk about a) which 
places currently mentions email policy, b) whether those places should 
be updated to explicitly mention XMPP (or perhaps oppositely stop being 
explicit about email), and c) whether we wanna change that policy.


> - Can you recommend best practices and/or tools for migrating from a
>   primary XMPP identity to a new one?
>
>   I (shamefully) still use an @gmail.com address as my main XMPP 
>   identity and I've been looking into migrating away since quite a 
>   while. But I've hundreds of contact there and I don't really know 
>   how to minimize their (and mine) pain during a migration. If anyone 
>   have tips, I'll be very glad to hear about them.

You probably should only extend, not migrate - see above.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Pirate Praveen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512



On 2015, നവംബർ 21 5:20:27 PM IST, "Ingo Jürgensmann"  
wrote:
>Maybe someone can setup a service or tool that logs into your old XMPP
>contact and either forwards incoming messages from your old XMPP
>account to the new one or gives the other users some kind of automated
>notification that you can reached now at the other address…

There is an xep for sharing contacts, no idea which clients support it though.

http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0144.html
- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi Daniel,

On Sat, Nov 07, 2015 at 12:05:16PM +, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Dear Developers,
[marketing snipped]

While all this irrelevant information about metcalfe's law and
federation and whatnot is very interesting, this mail lacks one key data
point:

How does one use the damn XMPP service?

Thanks,

-- 
It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Konstantin Khomoutov]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:51:29 +
"Iain R. Learmonth"  wrote:

> > How does one use the damn XMPP service?
> 
> Set an RTC password using db.debian.org.
> 
> Your account username is wou...@debian.org. (Replace wouter with your
> LDAP username if you're not wouter).
> 
> Your password is the one you set at db.debian.org.
> 
> If required, set the TURN server as turn.debian.org.
> 
> XMPP clients in Debian include: Pidgin, Empathy and Gajim.

Also: psi, psi-plus (both use Qt), mcabber (console, irssi-like),
tkabber (Tcl/Tk).

Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Simon Josefsson]

"Iain R. Learmonth"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 01:49:37PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> How does one use the damn XMPP service?
>
> Set an RTC password using db.debian.org.
>
> Your account username is wou...@debian.org. (Replace wouter with your LDAP
> username if you're not wouter).

Actually, in Pidgin you have to put 'wouter' as the username and
'debian.org' as the domain.  If you attempt to put 'wou...@debian.org'
as the username, it will incorrectly translate that into a username of
'wouter' and a domain of 'debian.org@'.  At least in my 2.10.11-1 pidgin
From jessie.  Empathy has a better user interface here, just asking for
a username that includes the domain.

/Simon

> Your password is the one you set at db.debian.org.
>
> If required, set the TURN server as turn.debian.org.
>
> XMPP clients in Debian include: Pidgin, Empathy and Gajim.
>
> Thanks,
> Iain.
>


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Re: debian.org RTC: announcing XMPP, SIP presence and more

[Iain R. Learmonth]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 01:49:37PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> How does one use the damn XMPP service?

Set an RTC password using db.debian.org.

Your account username is wou...@debian.org. (Replace wouter with your LDAP
username if you're not wouter).

Your password is the one you set at db.debian.org.

If required, set the TURN server as turn.debian.org.

XMPP clients in Debian include: Pidgin, Empathy and Gajim.

Thanks,
Iain.

--