Re: ia32-libs transition
This one time, at band camp, Goswin von Brederlow said: Faidon Liambotis parav...@debian.org writes: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: ia32-wine is only available when ia32-apt-get is installed. WTF? Are you listening to yourself? Do you actually believe that it's okay to mess in such horrendous ways with the packaging system? If you don't want it then don't use it. That is your choice. You understand we're building a distribution here, right? This isn't just about whatever random thing you feel like doing. If a huge number of DDs are telling you you're wrong, you likely are. If you can't listen to your peers, I'm guesing this abortion needs to go the TC, but I would prefer if you could listen to what people are telling you. -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :sg...@debian.org | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ia32-libs transition
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: ia32-wine is only available when ia32-apt-get is installed. WTF? Are you listening to yourself? Do you actually believe that it's okay to mess in such horrendous ways with the packaging system? -- Faidon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Faidon Liambotis parav...@debian.org writes: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: ia32-wine is only available when ia32-apt-get is installed. WTF? Are you listening to yourself? Do you actually believe that it's okay to mess in such horrendous ways with the packaging system? If you don't want it then don't use it. That is your choice. If you think the old ia32-libs did any less messing around with the debs then you fail to see that the only difference is one of when. And the ia32-apt-get way has the advantage of supporting apt-get install skype and similar invocations. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 05:11, Goswin von Brederlowgoswin-...@web.de wrote: Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. Not wanting to leave it at that, I've spent a couple of hours today trying to pin down some specifics. Unfortunately I've not had much success. Purging everything related to 32bit compatibility and reinstalling doesn't ever seem to have exactly the same effect - so far I've seen numerous problems, but none of them reproducibly, and many of them making no sense at all - eg how in the world did I lose /usr/bin/dpkg-deb at one point? No clue. The apt segfault went away That would require you to hit ctrl-C in the preinst between a mv and a ln command. Or on remove between dpkg removing the package and running postrm where the diversion is undone. In both cases you would have a half-installed package due to your ctrl-c-ing. after setting Cache-Limit to 50331648 - but why did it only start doing that after a couple of goes? Couldn't say. That makes 4 people having hit that libapt bug. I suspect that all of my problems are secondary damage rooted in a problem I had the first time I tried the update: installing ia32-apt-get requires a ton of entropy to generate a private key (why? beats me). Unfortunately, my system didn't seem to be able to generate sufficient randomness even after an evening of use, so eventually I ^Cd it just so that at least the dpkg database lock would be released. I'm aware that this isn't a good idea, but I didn't feel that I had a great deal of choice - plus I've never had a partial package install be such a headache to clean up before. Curiously, in my later repeats of the process it never took more than a couple of minutes to generate enough entropy, and usually it was less than a minute, so I'm not sure why it had such a problem the first time. I verry rarely have enough random bits for gpg to create a key. Even after hours of uptime without using gpg. Other things eat up enough to keep the pool small. But I never had it block for hours waiting for more. Usualy continious quickly. Do you use ssl for mail and had a fair amount of mail traffic? I heart that that eats up random bits like crazy. Or maybe that, once cleaned up, wasn't the end of the world after all. Another possibility is that I didn't realise until I'd read the other thread that you need to use apt-get to complete the process, so I just used aptitude the first couple of goes, as I usually do. You only need apt-get update. The rest works in aptitude or synaptic. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine Except that it's really: apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get update apt-get install ia32-wine Rather than: aptitude update aptitude install wine At least that's what I assume. I can't get past the second apt-get update without something breaking. With version 19 (on mentors.debian.net) you can now also do aptitude install ia32-apt-get aptitude update aptitude install ia32-wine You only need one round of update after ia32-apt-get. ia32-wine depends on all the libraries it needs and pulls them it. It doesn't need an upgrade of ia32-libs before it is installable. This entire direction is a dead end. Having these extra package databases and dpkg-diversions only works in a very narrow set of circumstances. It's only a workable solution if you assume that everyone: * Uses apt-get and nothing else * Doesn't care about having other package-related tools like apt-file fully functional apt-file needs to be patched for multiarch so it can cope with multiple Contents-$ARCH files eventually. If you do that now it will function more and more as libraries are converted to multiarch even if ia32-apt-get is still used to install them. Remember that packages can convert to multiarch prior to dpkg/apt/aptitute/synaptic/... being multiarch capable. * Doesn't care about packages not being shown 'correctly' in eg. aptitude/apt-cache search, at least until the magic setup process is complete. correctly? Inbetween installing ia32-apt-get and running update for the first time after that there is small window where some index files will be unavailable. I'm not aware though that that affects how packages are shown in aptitude or apt-cache. I use apt-cache quite a lot and it displays things just fine for me. * Reads the documentation and knows that they have to complete a multi-step process. * Is actually happy to do so * Is always going to know specifically that a certain
Re: ia32-libs transition
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:04:38PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote: Waiting for multi-arch, Goswin's system permits me to use wine (and chromium browser) on my 64bits Debian. A simple chroot will permit you to use this. And is a much saner thing than anything we have seen until now. I beg to disagree here, well kind of. A *working* system that allows me to just place your package manager here install some 32 bit stuff is far superior to a chroot setup especially for users less experienced/interested in technical details. Now whether the current system is *working* is a different story. And yes, I absolutely agree that getting such changes done on ones system *without* notice and *without* full functionality is a no-go, as is btw changing libc6-i386 without communication with the ia32 people, if it really happened that way. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org) Michael at BorussiaFan dot De, Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org ICQ: 179140304, AIM/Yahoo/Skype: michaelmeskes, Jabber: mes...@jabber.org Go VfL Borussia! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: The choices where 1) rewrite the old ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk for the new libc6-i386 or 2) make ia32-apt-get take over (slightly prematurely in hindsight) If it's possible (according to ftp-masters) to have the old ia32-libs packages adapted to the new libc6-i386; the best thing, for me, would be to have a minimal[1] ia32-libs package in the archive and an ia32-archive tool for those who want other ia32-* packages or wants to keep up to date with library versions. Yannick [1] Minimal in the sense of the required libraries for packages needing i386 in main (only wine?). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
[Goswin von Brederlow] You only need apt-get update. The rest works in aptitude or synaptic. I've gotten into the habit of using 'apt-get update' even though I otherwise use aptitude. This was necessary while I was building a custom repository at work, because apt-get's error reporting is far better. -- Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine (...) 0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 187 not upgraded. Need to get 11.0MB of archives. After this operation, 51.4MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y ... % winemine Have fun. Works both with sid and experimental wine. Provided you have a lib32ncurses5 and lib32readline5 with the lib32 transition completed that is. Bug the respective maintainers for that one. Hi Goswin, Sorry, but that's plain false. The package ia32-wine is non-existant. # apt-get install ia32-wine Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package ia32-wine But the package wine is and here is what I get : # apt-get install wine (...) works $ winemine (does not work) Regards, OdyX -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Le mardi 30 juin 2009 à 01:55 +0100, Aneurin Price a écrit : Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Report a critical bug against the package. Arrange so that it can never migrate to testing. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? Yes: hijack the ia32-libs package. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: ia32-libs transition
Josselin Mouette wrote: Le mardi 30 juin 2009 à 01:55 +0100, Aneurin Price a écrit : Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Report a critical bug against the package. Arrange so that it can never migrate to testing. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? Yes: hijack the ia32-libs package. please do so. -- Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer GPG Fingerprints: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: ia32-libs transition
On 30/06/2009 Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Did anyone who isn't on crack get to see 'ia32-apt-get.preinst' and 'ia32-apt-get.postinst' before they were perpetrated upon an unsuspecting populace? Reading them in the process of trying to unfuck my system made me feel more than slightly ill. Since my package was sponsored I would assume at least one other person looked over it. You are the first to mention illness. I can't change what it does. But do you have suggestion to improve how it does things in preinst/postinst/postrm? it seems like the whole ia32 transition is a major illness. apt-get now installs random packages from i386 over the ones from amd64 in case that the version from i386 is superior. that just happened for initscripts sysvinit sysvinit-utils and rar on my system. why the heck does ia32-apt-get replace amd64 packages with i386 ones at all? is this an attempt to slowly migrate amd64 systems to i386 ones? greetings, jonas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud did...@raboud.com writes: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine (...) 0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 187 not upgraded. Need to get 11.0MB of archives. After this operation, 51.4MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y ... % winemine Have fun. Works both with sid and experimental wine. Provided you have a lib32ncurses5 and lib32readline5 with the lib32 transition completed that is. Bug the respective maintainers for that one. Hi Goswin, Sorry, but that's plain false. The package ia32-wine is non-existant. # apt-get install ia32-wine Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package ia32-wine Ia32-wine is only available when ia32-apt-get is installed. I assumed you already had that. What exactly will happen with wine or how exactly it will do the trick to be installable out of the box isn't fixed yet. It is possible the same 2 stage install as ia32-libs will be used or something better. But the package wine is and here is what I get : # apt-get install wine (...) works $ winemine (does not work) That will install the wine_..._amd64.deb that is in unstable but missing in experimental for the latest version. Depending on the solution it might disapear in unstable or be repalced by a Meta package of one form or another. From talking to the wine maintainer I know that in the not to distant future wine will support the win64 API so you can run 64bit windows programs. So the actualy outcome might be that you have 3 packages: wine, ia32-wine and wine64. Where wine would pull in ia32-wine and wine64 and an contain a wrapper so wine foo.exe calls the right one. You will have to see how wine will turn out. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org writes: Le mardi 30 juin 2009 à 01:55 +0100, Aneurin Price a écrit : Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Report a critical bug against the package. Arrange so that it can never migrate to testing. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? Yes: hijack the ia32-libs package. Will you do security support and regular uploads for it too? Or just a one shot upload? Will you stand against ftp-masters whish to remove it? If so then do join the ia32-libs team on alioth and make an upload. I'm sure Bdale and Frederick have nothing against it. But then you need to do the work too, not just the talk. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Jonas Meurer jo...@freesources.org writes: On 30/06/2009 Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Did anyone who isn't on crack get to see 'ia32-apt-get.preinst' and 'ia32-apt-get.postinst' before they were perpetrated upon an unsuspecting populace? Reading them in the process of trying to unfuck my system made me feel more than slightly ill. Since my package was sponsored I would assume at least one other person looked over it. You are the first to mention illness. I can't change what it does. But do you have suggestion to improve how it does things in preinst/postinst/postrm? it seems like the whole ia32 transition is a major illness. apt-get now installs random packages from i386 over the ones from amd64 in case that the version from i386 is superior. that just happened for initscripts sysvinit sysvinit-utils and rar on my system. why the heck does ia32-apt-get replace amd64 packages with i386 ones at all? is this an attempt to slowly migrate amd64 systems to i386 ones? greetings, jonas Because you didn't read the NEWS. Given the number of people that don't read NEWS or have generally been surprised of ia32-apt-get introducing 32bit packages to the system the next upload of ia32-apt-get will be more explicit about this and only activate after the user confirmed its use. Actualy some constructive discussion on irc about this problem has revealed a possible solution. Binary packages, those that don't get an ia32- prefix, can easily be filtered out of the Packages files preventing any replacement of 64bit packages with 32bit. That also prevents things like skype to be listed though. So I intend to add a debconf question: Do you want to [ ] abort installing ia32-apt-get [ ] only allow 32bit libraries [ ] allow 32bit libraries and binaries (DANGER: see docs about pining) or something of that sort. Will that satisfy you? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud did...@raboud.com writes: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine (...) 0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 187 not upgraded. Need to get 11.0MB of archives. After this operation, 51.4MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y ... % winemine Have fun. Works both with sid and experimental wine. Provided you have a lib32ncurses5 and lib32readline5 with the lib32 transition completed that is. Bug the respective maintainers for that one. Hi Goswin, Sorry, but that's plain false. The package ia32-wine is non-existant. # apt-get install ia32-wine Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Couldn't find package ia32-wine But the package wine is and here is what I get : # apt-get install wine (...) works $ winemine (does not work) Regards, OdyX Small addition. The reason that wine breaks there is that libc6-i386 is missing a Breaks: wine packages and wine is missing a Pre-Depends: libc6-i386 (= 2.9-18). The existing wine packages (if they are to be kept) need to to the lib32 link - directory transition. Just one more SNAFU of libc6, not my fault. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
On 11797 March 1977, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Will you do security support and regular uploads for it too? Or just a one shot upload? Will you stand against ftp-masters whish to remove it? You are actively working with all you can do to not only let us hate it but actually consider removing it completly. Good job. -- bye, Joerg Free Beer is such a good thing and Free Speech too. Debian is about the both. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Joerg Jaspert wrote: On 11797 March 1977, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Will you do security support and regular uploads for it too? Or just a one shot upload? Will you stand against ftp-masters whish to remove it? You are actively working with all you can do to not only let us hate it but actually consider removing it completly. Good job. Not being a DD, my thoughts may be meaningless here; but as an amd64 Debian user, I think I should speak in defence of Goswin. If I understand well, ia32-libs was not acceptable in its state for ftp- masters. I think that having all the ia32-* packages would not be acceptable either. The right thing would be to have multi-arch, but it will come when it's ready (that's not a bad thing). Waiting for multi-arch, Goswin's system permits me to use wine (and chromium browser) on my 64bits Debian. Of course, Goswin made mistakes as ia32-apt-get does not warn the user about the need of pining i386 packages and try to install converted binary ones. But his propositions to limit the conversion to library packages may solve the issue. Maybe all of this should go to experimental (is there a problem with wine depending on experimental packages for amd64?) but thank you Goswin for your work. Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Will you do security support and regular uploads for it too? Or just a one shot upload? Will you stand against ftp-masters whish to remove it? You are actively working with all you can do to not only let us hate it but actually consider removing it completly. Good job. Not being a DD, my thoughts may be meaningless here; but as an amd64 Debian user, I think I should speak in defence of Goswin. Waiting for multi-arch, Goswin's system permits me to use wine (and chromium browser) on my 64bits Debian. A simple chroot will permit you to use this. And is a much saner thing than anything we have seen until now. If I understand well, ia32-libs was not acceptable in its state for ftp- masters. I think that having all the ia32-* packages would not be acceptable either. ia32-libs has a much larger history than the small one known here. The right thing would be to have multi-arch, but it will come when it's ready (that's not a bad thing). Not having m-a now isnt a good reason to willingly produce a known broken thing. -- bye, Joerg elmo if klecker.d.o died, I swear to god, I'm going to migrate to gentoo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 05:11, Goswin von Brederlowgoswin-...@web.de wrote: Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. Not wanting to leave it at that, I've spent a couple of hours today trying to pin down some specifics. Unfortunately I've not had much success. Purging everything related to 32bit compatibility and reinstalling doesn't ever seem to have exactly the same effect - so far I've seen numerous problems, but none of them reproducibly, and many of them making no sense at all - eg how in the world did I lose /usr/bin/dpkg-deb at one point? No clue. The apt segfault went away after setting Cache-Limit to 50331648 - but why did it only start doing that after a couple of goes? Couldn't say. I suspect that all of my problems are secondary damage rooted in a problem I had the first time I tried the update: installing ia32-apt-get requires a ton of entropy to generate a private key (why? beats me). Unfortunately, my system didn't seem to be able to generate sufficient randomness even after an evening of use, so eventually I ^Cd it just so that at least the dpkg database lock would be released. I'm aware that this isn't a good idea, but I didn't feel that I had a great deal of choice - plus I've never had a partial package install be such a headache to clean up before. Curiously, in my later repeats of the process it never took more than a couple of minutes to generate enough entropy, and usually it was less than a minute, so I'm not sure why it had such a problem the first time. Or maybe that, once cleaned up, wasn't the end of the world after all. Another possibility is that I didn't realise until I'd read the other thread that you need to use apt-get to complete the process, so I just used aptitude the first couple of goes, as I usually do. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine Except that it's really: apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get update apt-get install ia32-wine Rather than: aptitude update aptitude install wine At least that's what I assume. I can't get past the second apt-get update without something breaking. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: ia32-libwine ia32-libwine-alsa ia32-libwine-cms ia32-libwine-gl ia32-libwine-gphoto2 ia32-libwine-ldap ia32-libwine-print ia32-libwine-sane ia32-wine-bin ia32-wine-utils Suggested packages: wine-doc binfmt-support ttf-mscorefonts-installer winbind avscan klamav clamav Recommended packages: ttf-liberation The following NEW packages will be installed: ia32-libwine ia32-libwine-alsa ia32-libwine-cms ia32-libwine-gl ia32-libwine-gphoto2 ia32-libwine-ldap ia32-libwine-print ia32-libwine-sane ia32-wine ia32-wine-bin ia32-wine-utils 0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 187 not upgraded. Need to get 11.0MB of archives. After this operation, 51.4MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y ... % winemine Have fun. Works both with sid and experimental wine. Provided you have a lib32ncurses5 and lib32readline5 with the lib32 transition completed that is. Bug the respective maintainers for that one. Did anyone who isn't on crack get to see 'ia32-apt-get.preinst' and 'ia32-apt-get.postinst' before they were perpetrated upon an unsuspecting populace? Reading them in the process of trying to unfuck my system made me feel more than slightly ill. Since my package was sponsored I would assume at least one other person looked over it. You are the first to mention illness. I can't change what it does. But do you have suggestion to improve how it does things in preinst/postinst/postrm? To be honest, I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. You can't just hack together a quick shell script for something that major. It's far too brittle. Latest source is on svn.debian.org pkg-ia32-libs: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-ia32-libs/trunk/ia32-libs-tools/#_trunk_ia32-libs-tools_ This entire direction is a dead end. Having these extra package databases and dpkg-diversions only works in a very narrow set of circumstances. It's only a workable solution if you assume that everyone: * Uses apt-get and nothing else * Doesn't care about having other package-related tools like apt-file fully functional * Doesn't care about packages not being shown 'correctly' in eg. aptitude/apt-cache search, at least until the magic setup process is complete. * Reads the documentation and knows that they have to complete a multi-step process. * Is
Re: ia32-libs transition
Yannick yannick.roeh...@free.fr writes: Maybe all of this should go to experimental (is there a problem with wine depending on experimental packages for amd64?) but thank you Goswin for your work. Yannick The problem was that libc6-i386 broke all 32bit support in unstable making all 32bit packages uninstallable. So something had to be done for unstable. I would have prefered doing this in experimental first too. Esspecially seeing how the libc6-i386 screwed up the transition on its first try and is still buggy (breaks wine). The choices where 1) rewrite the old ia32-libs + ia32-libs-gtk for the new libc6-i386 or 2) make ia32-apt-get take over (slightly prematurely in hindsight) According to popcon ~60 people had the previous ia32-apt-get installed so I didn't expect that much of an outrage about it. Now it shows 120 people. Anyway, what is done is done. I uploaded a new version to mentors. If anyone cares to try it out: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=ia32-libs-tools http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/i/ia32-libs-tools/ MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
ia32-libs transition
Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? Did anyone who isn't on crack get to see 'ia32-apt-get.preinst' and 'ia32-apt-get.postinst' before they were perpetrated upon an unsuspecting populace? Reading them in the process of trying to unfuck my system made me feel more than slightly ill. -Nye -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ia32-libs transition
Aneurin Price aneurin.pr...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I've just spent over an hour writing and rewriting this mail, and determined that I can't think of a single constructive thing to say. So I'll just ask a couple of questions instead: Is there any way of preventing this kind of major breakage in the future? I don't think many people expect that upgrading one package will FUBAR the packaging system. Is there any chance of Wine becoming functional on amd64 in the forseeable future? # apt-get install ia32-wine Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: ia32-libwine ia32-libwine-alsa ia32-libwine-cms ia32-libwine-gl ia32-libwine-gphoto2 ia32-libwine-ldap ia32-libwine-print ia32-libwine-sane ia32-wine-bin ia32-wine-utils Suggested packages: wine-doc binfmt-support ttf-mscorefonts-installer winbind avscan klamav clamav Recommended packages: ttf-liberation The following NEW packages will be installed: ia32-libwine ia32-libwine-alsa ia32-libwine-cms ia32-libwine-gl ia32-libwine-gphoto2 ia32-libwine-ldap ia32-libwine-print ia32-libwine-sane ia32-wine ia32-wine-bin ia32-wine-utils 0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 187 not upgraded. Need to get 11.0MB of archives. After this operation, 51.4MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y ... % winemine Have fun. Works both with sid and experimental wine. Provided you have a lib32ncurses5 and lib32readline5 with the lib32 transition completed that is. Bug the respective maintainers for that one. Did anyone who isn't on crack get to see 'ia32-apt-get.preinst' and 'ia32-apt-get.postinst' before they were perpetrated upon an unsuspecting populace? Reading them in the process of trying to unfuck my system made me feel more than slightly ill. Since my package was sponsored I would assume at least one other person looked over it. You are the first to mention illness. I can't change what it does. But do you have suggestion to improve how it does things in preinst/postinst/postrm? Latest source is on svn.debian.org pkg-ia32-libs: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-ia32-libs/trunk/ia32-libs-tools/#_trunk_ia32-libs-tools_ -Nye MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
