Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
W. Martin Borgert: > We have apparmor (maybe even by default!) to prevent network accesss > of a music application, Not quite yet: AppArmor network rules are not supported in Linux mainline yet (#712451). Cheers, -- intrigeri
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
Quoting Holger Levsen : On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 03:34:42PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote: We have apparmor (maybe even by default!) to prevent network accesss of a music application, which is perfect for Adam, you and me, but it must also be easy to allow e.g. fetching of lyrics for those who want this. But only the lyrics, and not the cover art. Or vice versa. you mean like in https://subgraph.com/sgos/screenshots/ ?! :) This looks pretty cool, indeed! Can I haz thiz in Debian, pleaz? Still, I'm not sure about the user experience. The program itself should have the option to ask the user for access and explain, for which purpose they might like to allow access. Is this possible? (Sorry for my laziness, I didn't do any check myself.)
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 03:34:42PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > We have apparmor (maybe even by default!) to prevent network accesss > of a music application, which is perfect for Adam, you and me, but it > must also be easy to allow e.g. fetching of lyrics for those who want > this. But only the lyrics, and not the cover art. Or vice versa. you mean like in https://subgraph.com/sgos/screenshots/ ?! :) (just look at the last four screenshots, the first two are not relevant to this discussion.) -- cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
Quoting Holger Levsen : the solution to that is to confine each and every application by default and forbid network access. the gnome calculator on every startup fetches currency exchange information because you might use it to calculate that. pretty useful. not. Problem: As Marco pointed out, users want e.g. access to online lyrics. (I disagree with him, that most users want this. Only few users want such stuff, but somehow they always win. Now let us analyse user behaviour in depth. Every breath you take, every click you make.) We have apparmor (maybe even by default!) to prevent network accesss of a music application, which is perfect for Adam, you and me, but it must also be easy to allow e.g. fetching of lyrics for those who want this. But only the lyrics, and not the cover art. Or vice versa.
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:47:54PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > While I need online music services about as much as I need an additional > hole in the head, this raises a good point: why do music players shipped in > Debian default to grabbing lyrics, "LastFM stats", tags, and what not, even > when playing local media? the solution to that is to confine each and every application by default and forbid network access. the gnome calculator on every startup fetches currency exchange information because you might use it to calculate that. pretty useful. not. -- cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
Hi, On 18-04-09 01:28:32, Marco d'Itri wrote: > Maybe the developers of these program should implement some call-home > functionality to collect metrics about which features are actually > used by their users, to be able to better tune the default settings? Please don't ask upstreams to implement such features; IMHO, adding more "call-home functionalities" to collect user data (even if anonymized) isn't a wise idea, especially in these times.. Cheers, Georg signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
On Apr 08, Adam Borowski wrote: > While I need online music services about as much as I need an additional > hole in the head, this raises a good point: why do music players shipped in > Debian default to grabbing lyrics, "LastFM stats", tags, and what not, even > when playing local media? Probably because most of their users consider these features to be useful. This deceptively simple principle can be generalized to explain the default settings of most software. Maybe the developers of these program should implement some call-home functionality to collect metrics about which features are actually used by their users, to be able to better tune the default settings? -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:47:54PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:34:29PM +0200, Aurélien COUDERC wrote: > > * Package name: elisa > > * URL : https://community.kde.org/Elisa > > Description : Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop > > integration and privacy > [...] > > Elisa is developed using modern KDE technologies and aims to be reliable > > and respectful of users’ privacy. As such, it favors online services where > > users are in control of their data. > > While I need online music services about as much as I need an additional > hole in the head, this raises a good point: why do music players shipped in > Debian default to grabbing lyrics, "LastFM stats", tags, and what not, even > when playing local media? Just to make this more obvious: this is not a dig on _elisa_, this is a dig on everything else. As for elisa, it would be nice if you could make it obvious what the upstream writes: that online services are not a development priority -- this player is supposed to be good for offline music, which is exactly what I want. The current description makes it seem to be a tool for online stuff _only_, merely with some respect for privacy. (Re-added CC to the bug -- wrt my wish for the description.) Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ ... what's the frequency of that 5V DC? ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Bug#895253: ITP: elisa -- Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop integration and privacy
On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:34:29PM +0200, Aurélien COUDERC wrote: > * Package name: elisa > * URL : https://community.kde.org/Elisa > Description : Simple music player with a focus on Plasma desktop > integration and privacy [...] > Elisa is developed using modern KDE technologies and aims to be reliable > and respectful of users’ privacy. As such, it favors online services where > users are in control of their data. While I need online music services about as much as I need an additional hole in the head, this raises a good point: why do music players shipped in Debian default to grabbing lyrics, "LastFM stats", tags, and what not, even when playing local media? Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ ... what's the frequency of that 5V DC? ⠈⠳⣄
