Re: hijack of gjots2 package

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Rolf Leggewie  wrote:
> I am happy you and Athos want to contribute to Debian.  My beef is that
> you need to do it the proper way (failure #1).  And that you need to own
> up to and correct in a reasonable time frame mistakes you make (failure
> #2).

So you gave Lucas 4 days to act before you publicly shamed him. Did
you tell him about that deadline in advance?

Meanwhile, you haven't made an upload for your package in 4 years and
you *never* replied to https://bugs.debian.org/876571 (open for 7
months, and the bug that the failed NMU fixed and you reintroduced).

> I would not have made this public if you hadn't failed me the
> second time around as well, leaving me little time to push "RC bug"
> #876571 to bionic (yes, I do want that Recommends in there for that LTS).

Which one and why? You re-introduced 2 recommends, both of which are
not in Testing and at high risk of being removed from Ubuntu very
soon. (In other words, they are RC bugs in Ubuntu too.)

I guess the fact that Ubuntu 18.04 "bionic" will be released very soon
helps explains a bit your newfound sense of urgency with gjots2. But
let me suggest that since you have upload rights to Ubuntu, you could
have made your change in Ubuntu without needing to make the same
change in Debian at the same time.

Of course the other person you shamed did not have the ability to do
the action you demanded. All of us have made mistakes. I think we
should be a lot more forgiving to new contributors instead of telling
everyone that you will object if he ever applies to become a DM. I
strongly hope that Athos does continue contributing to Debian and does
apply to be a DM.

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

Re: hijack of gjots2 package

[Rolf Leggewie]

Dear Lucas,

thank you for your mail to the list and thank you very much for your
efforts at MiniDebConf as well as maintaining and sponsoring packages as
a DD, and all the other things I am not aware of.  We share a common
goal and vision.

I am happy you and Athos want to contribute to Debian.  My beef is that
you need to do it the proper way (failure #1).  And that you need to own
up to and correct in a reasonable time frame mistakes you make (failure
#2).  I would not have made this public if you hadn't failed me the
second time around as well, leaving me little time to push "RC bug"
#876571 to bionic (yes, I do want that Recommends in there for that LTS).

I cannot help but notice how much space you devote in your mail to
"owning up to your mistakes" vs. going on the offense (saying my mail
was noise (when it wasn't), reintroducing "bugs" (that are arguable even
though they are technically RC), etc.).  You complain that I put Athos'
and your name in the subject of my mail to the list and that this made
you very upset.  I am truly sorry about hurting your feelings, this was
certainly not my intention.  I will own up to this mistake of mine, I
was simply unaware of this interpretation.  If that really makes me
instantly lose my argument as Holger put it then I would have to say
what a sorry discussion culture that is, though.  Etiquette is important
but so is intention and in the end, the substance still matters most in
my opinion.  You complain that I make you look like the "bad guys", you
blame me for scaring off a newcomer.  I am not attacking your character,
I am clear and bluntly complaining about *your actions* and since they
were your actions I certainly felt that after the second failure those
actions needed to made publicly known, not least to prevent a repeat.  I
very much hope you and Athos continue to contribute to Debian and gjots2
if you so chose.  My request is simply that you do it the right way and
respect other people's work.

You try to brush this off as a problem of "miscommunication".  As if you
had been trying to but failing to reach me, as if there had been a
misunderstanding, a potential language barrier or some such prior to
your upload.  Let me be crystal clear, that is absolutely not the case. 
This was a case of NON-communication on your and Athos part.  It's sad
to see you try to cover it up that way even now.  I really can't agree
with Ian that yours was a "grown-up" response.  For you being the
self-admitted main agressor, I feel there's an awful lot of blame coming
from your corner.  Now, let me ponder on what I can do better...

Regards

Rolf




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