Processed: Re: Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
Processing control commands: > clone 1030189 -1 Bug #1030189 [release-notes] Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list Bug 1030189 cloned as bug 1030562 > reassign -1 debian-faq Bug #1030562 [release-notes] Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list Bug reassigned from package 'release-notes' to 'debian-faq'. Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #1030562 to the same values previously set Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #1030562 to the same values previously set -- 1030189: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1030189 1030562: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1030562 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
Control: clone 1030189 -1 Control: reassign -1 debian-faq Thanks Sven, How about Debian FAQ? Shouldn't it mention non-free-firmware * debian-faq package * https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ftparchives.en.html FYI: I already updated debian-reference https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_debian_archive_basics (minimal changes to avoid translation breakages) > Le mer. 1 févr. 2023 à 21:36, Sven Joachim a écrit : > > > Control: reassign -1 release-notes > > ... > > Somehow, but how exactly? Good question that was brought up on > > debian-devel[2], alas without replies yet. > > > > Cheers, > > Sven > > > > > > 1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/01/msg00706.html > > 2. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/01/msg00312.html
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
> "DK" == David Kalnischkies writes: DK> The message is rather cryptic, but its intent is to catch unaware DK> sid/testing users and those stable users who don't read release notes, I am the perfect user to test it on. I am the one who just has used sid for the last 20 years and all I do is aptiude update; aptiude full-upgrade not even using any GUI, curses, etc. Anyway all those cool names "bookworm" or whatever, no, not even "in one ear and out the other"... they never even get to one ear. I'm like grandma who never watches the news. Wouldn't know if they changed the flag until one day I looked on top of the post office. Anyway to test it on me, "you'll need to give me a special cellphone (.deb) that beeps when there is a (test) national alert", so as not to bother other users.
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 3:36 PM Sven Joachim wrote: > The release notes for Bookworm should and will certainly mention that. > I think this is where this bug is actually actionable, so I am > reassigning it there. > > > Yes, he should be regularly subscribed to debian-user, but that's too > > much. > > I have sent a heads-up message[1] there a few days ago, but as you said it > got lost in all the other topics discussed there. > > > Or https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/, but that's too many boring > > messages too. > > There was not even a prominent notice there, at least not in the past > few weeks. > > > Yes, he uses apt-listchanges, but that won't tell him this. > > > > So I'm saying that Debian needs a mechanism to have his computer tell > > him to do this. > > > > Maybe the next time he uses apt*, somehow the system should tell him... > > Somehow, but how exactly? Good question that was brought up on > debian-devel[2], alas without replies yet. I got bitten by this, and only noticed it when my system's firmware packages showed up in the output of "apt list ~g". I'm sure I'm missing something, but why weren't transitional packages left in non-free that depend on the new versions in non-free-firmware? Perhaps they could also depend on a source-list-modifying package so the next upgrade doesn't break.
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
On Wed, 2023-02-01 at 21:32 +0100, Sven Joachim wrote: > Somehow, but how exactly? Good question that was brought up on > debian-devel[2], alas without replies yet. The apt developers have come up with something for this: https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/merge_requests/282 -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 09:32:47PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote: > > Maybe the next time he uses apt*, somehow the system should tell him... > > Somehow, but how exactly? fwiw I intend to have apt print a notice at the end of each 'apt(-get) update' call if certain conditions are met in bookworm. My branch with details can be found here: https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/merge_requests/282 It is marked Draft as I mainly need to a) figure out which firmware packages from bullseye (will have been) moved in bookworm to non-free-firmware for one of my targeted scenarios and b) have a reasonably detailed entry in the release notes to link to explaining what to actually do as I really don't want to get into details in a one-line message… will be hard enough to cover all bases in a few paragraphs after all. A stub for the release-notes can be found in https://salsa.debian.org/ddp-team/release-notes/-/merge_requests/138 although as I noted in a comment there I would prefer a more detailed §5 entry rather than linking to a rather short §4. The code isn't exactly rocket-science (although a bit lengthy) & as I am reusing already existing messages it could theoretically be backported to bullseye and pushed in a stable update so that users would see it while upgrading instead of on some run after the upgrade, but for the moment I am not planing to push for that. I might have if someone had shown any interest in the idea months ago[0]. The message is rather cryptic, but its intent is to catch unaware sid/testing users and those stable users who don't read release notes, so that is borderline okay. If the goalpost is instead moved to every user of Debian the messages should really not be that cryptic, but that would mean more work & more diff (not just by me, but e.g. translators). At this point in time it seems better to focus this energy on the release notes. Or, on discussing if gmake users are affected, too, … Best regards David Kalnischkies [0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2022/10/msg00217.html signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
A placeholder package in main could prompt users to enable needed source component ? Le mer. 1 févr. 2023 à 21:36, Sven Joachim a écrit : > Control: reassign -1 release-notes > > On 2023-02-01 08:30 +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote: > > > Package: general > > > > The average user will not notice his firmware is not updating any more. > > Unless they pay close attention to apt(itude)'s messages, that is > probably true. > > > So he must do Google Search. > > https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+firmware+non-free > > which leads to > > https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware > > which says > > ...a new repository component non-free-firmware... > > > > So that means he needs to add it to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ > > Ah ha! > > The release notes for Bookworm should and will certainly mention that. > I think this is where this bug is actually actionable, so I am > reassigning it there. > > > Yes, he should be regularly subscribed to debian-user, but that's too > > much. > > I have sent a heads-up message[1] there a few days ago, but as you said it > got lost in all the other topics discussed there. > > > Or https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/, but that's too many boring > > messages too. > > There was not even a prominent notice there, at least not in the past > few weeks. > > > Yes, he uses apt-listchanges, but that won't tell him this. > > > > So I'm saying that Debian needs a mechanism to have his computer tell > > him to do this. > > > > Maybe the next time he uses apt*, somehow the system should tell him... > > Somehow, but how exactly? Good question that was brought up on > debian-devel[2], alas without replies yet. > > Cheers, >Sven > > > 1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/01/msg00706.html > 2. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/01/msg00312.html > >
Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
On 2/1/23 20:53, Ansgar wrote: So he must do Google Search. Do you think this problem only affects make users? jeez... my remark was meant to spell: > Do you think this problem only affects *male* users? but autocompletion kicked in. I would expect at least ninja-build users to be affected as well unless they use a VM. so i'm rephrasing this (with tongue-in-cheek) as: > Do you think this problem only affects kunoichi-build users?
Processed: Re: Bug#1030189: Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list
Processing control commands: > reassign -1 release-notes Bug #1030189 [general] Let regular users know need to put non-free-firmware in sources.list Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'release-notes'. Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #1030189 to the same values previously set Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #1030189 to the same values previously set -- 1030189: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1030189 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems
