databases not copyrightable in the USA (was: CA certificates)

2004-05-12 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 01:23:40PM +0200, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote: > In some countries (USA and Germany?) lists/databases are copyrightable, > even is single data is not! (phone book, games scores and statistics,...) Not in the United States. The controlling Supreme Court precedent is _Feist P

right of publicity, or why no-advertising clauses are not necessary

2004-05-12 Thread Branden Robinson
I find no-advertising clauses like the following annoying: Except as contained in this notice, the name(s) of the above copyright holders shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other dealings in this Software without prior written authorization. They ann

Re: Theoretical Library License

2004-05-12 Thread Branden Robinson
On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 01:43:24PM -0600, Benjamin Cutler wrote: > Humberto Massa wrote: > >@ 10/05/2004 16:26 : wrote Benjamin Cutler : > >>3. If you wish to SELL your program or otherwise charge for its > >>distribution, and NOT include the source code and/or otherwise make it > >>non-freely re

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > Hi, > > though LGPL is quite OLD, AFAICS there is no summary. To put it on the > web pages, I wrote one: > > Debian-legal has concluded that the LGPL (Library Gnu Public License) > v2 and LGPL (Lesser Gnu Public License) v2.1 is a D

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Andreas Barth
* Branden Robinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040512 11:10]: > Furthermore, it might be wise if we only attempt to adjudicate licenses > that are brought to us for consideration. I'm not sure we should go on > hunts for licenses to audit ourselves; to do so might damage the > impression of impartiality

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
Andreas Barth said on Wed, May 12, 2004 at 11:15:06AM +0200,: > For me, I want the LGPL for a very simple reason on this web page: > It's quite often used (even so often that it is stored in > /usr/share/common-licenses), and I think that on our web page we > should not only hav

Re: databases not copyrightable in the USA (was: CA certificates)

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
Branden, in Brasil, the copyrights law (9610/98) makes databases copyrighted, IF and only if "their selection, organization, or the disposition of their content" is a novel intellectual creation. The CDDB, for example, would not be covered by this definition (its selection, organization and disposi

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 12:31:47AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > Of course it does. You claimed, as far as I can tell, that the GPL's > requirement that derived works be available under the GPL's terms is > a restriction on modification; I explained that this is explicitly > allowed by the latter

copyrightable vs. copyrighted (was Re: databases not copyrightable in the USA)

2004-05-12 Thread Martin Dickopp
"Humberto Massa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In another topic, I prefer the term "copyrighted". "Copyrightable" is > an ugly, ugly term... and everything that is copyrightable is > copyrighted by default... I see a fine distinction between the two terms. For example, a work created by the U.S.

Re: copyrightable vs. copyrighted

2004-05-12 Thread Måns Rullgård
Martin Dickopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Humberto Massa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> In another topic, I prefer the term "copyrighted". "Copyrightable" is >> an ugly, ugly term... and everything that is copyrightable is >> copyrighted by default... > > I see a fine distinction between th

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Jeremy Hankins
Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My copy of the DFSG does not say "The license must allow all > modifications and derived works, ..." True, though it's hard to argue that was not actually the intended meaning of what was written, I think. But granted, it is possible. > The issue I've b

Re: reiser4 non-free?

2004-05-12 Thread Jeremy Hankins
Brian Thomas Sniffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Jeremy Hankins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Brian Thomas Sniffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> In other words, some works under this license are free (for example, >>> one containing no credits but the copyright notice) and others are >>> non-

Re: right of publicity, or why no-advertising clauses are not necessary

2004-05-12 Thread Luke Mewburn
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:54:32AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: | For what it's worth, I think the NetBSD Foundation has already reached | this conclusion, which is why they use a 2-clause form of the BSD | license, with both the compelled-advertising and no-advertising clauses | removed.

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 11/05/2004 17:43 : wrote Raul Miller : For example: you can't take code from gcc and code from metafont and combine them to build a new compiler -- at least not under the current licenses of those programs. On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:00:49PM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote:

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 11/05/2004 18:23 : wrote Raul Miller : People without proper palladium licenses would not have the rights required by the gpl. On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 09:18:28PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: Why not? Because palladium is a proprietary work, and it's more than just an OS.

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 11/05/2004 19:52 : wrote Josh Triplett : With GPLed works, for example, we have the right to make any derived work we want, as long as it is under the GPL, so the GPL satisfies DFSG3. This is not technically correct. You can make any derived work you want, EXCEPT: if it rips (C) notices, a

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 11/05/2004 20:32 : wrote Raul Miller : On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:37:51PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > The GPL doesn't care what kinds of changes you make (with > very limited exceptions, such as the license blurb). Only if the resulting work (including the implementation of the support f

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 11/05/2004 20:55 : wrote Raul Miller : Of course for copyright purposes it might be reasonable to say that the painting and the notice together are contained in the work. Similarly, I could hand you a book and tell you that I license to you all my rights in that book under the terms of the

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 00:02 : wrote Raul Miller : I don't think you understand what copyright law allows you to do in the absence of explicit permission. As of USC 17, I don't, granted, by as of Leis 9.609/98 and 9.610/98 (Brazilian "computer programs" law, and "author's rights" law, respectively, a

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Josh Triplett
Branden Robinson wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: >>Hi, >> >>though LGPL is quite OLD, AFAICS there is no summary. To put it on the >>web pages, I wrote one: >> >>Debian-legal has concluded that the LGPL (Library Gnu Public License) >>v2 and LGPL (Lesser Gnu P

GPL: for this list's review and pleasure

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
Massa's little trying-to-be-comprehensive study about the GPL. (C) Humberto Massa 2004 This essay is hereby licensed to the reader, granting full rights of modification and redistribution, provided (1) every derived work maintain my copyright notice, (2) the original title is mentioned in every de

Re: copyrightable vs. copyrighted

2004-05-12 Thread Don Armstrong
On Wed, 12 May 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote: > What about works by the CIA? They're certainly not copyrighted... > Is copyright irrelevant to classified material? Well, considering that unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material is either a misdemeanor or a felony, and according to my consp

breezy

2004-05-12 Thread Frederic Shook
Denis Hutton,` The [EMAIL PROTECTED] will all0w you to receive all the [EMAIL PROTECTED] that you 0rder with your remote contr0l,* payperviews,XXX-movies,sp0rt events,special-events%,RND_SYB http://www.8009hosting.com/cable/ koenigsberg ,crewmen ,ira ,yea .

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 11:32:59AM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote: > You have at least half a point here. Derived works... are you implying > that if you integrate gcc better with Palladium you will make the > new-gcc a derived work of Palladium? That is specifically the kind of work I wanted to ta

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> >>It's not forbidden to make copies, just to redistribute the copies of > >>the derived works. > >What's your basis for making this statement? On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 11:18:36AM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote: > copyright law in the US (17 USC +) AFAIK does not regulate *using* > software or oth

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 05:37:51PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > > > The GPL doesn't care what kinds of changes you make (with > > > very limited exceptions, such as the license blurb). @ 11/05/2004 20:32 : wrote Raul Miller : > > Only if the resulting work (including the implementation of the >

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Joe Moore
Raul Miller wrote: (Deep attributions snipped in previous messages) >> >>You can combine gcc and metafont and make a new compiler; you can >> >>even make a script that combines them, apply some patch to the >> >>combination, and compiles the result to get to your invention; what >> >>you can't do i

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Josh Triplett
Raul Miller wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:25:16AM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > >>No. If I create any variation of the context, then the statement >>immediately stops being true when placed in the variated context. > > Except that you can easily create varied contexts where the > statemen

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> Raul Miller wrote: > (Deep attributions snipped in previous messages) > >> >>You can combine gcc and metafont and make a new compiler; you can > >> >>even make a script that combines them, apply some patch to the > >> >>combination, and compiles the result to get to your invention; what > >> >>yo

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> > That also has several solutions -- become a part of the FSF, or provide > > a disclaimer describing the issue. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 11:09:01AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > None of those solve the problem of making the license Free. Correct -- at the other end of this thread were some crit

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 14:36 : wrote Raul Miller : In Brazilian copyright+computer_programs law, you can make as many copies as necessary to use some software. That's specific to that jurisdiction, not a part of a license. I said it in other post: Brazilian law is modelled closed on the Berne c

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Joe Moore
Raul Miller wrote: >> >> I said: You can modify gcc, combining it with metafont (as long as >> >> you >> >> don't eliminate 2,c announcements -- which AFAIR gcc does not >> >> have); >> > >> > If you can put appropriate copyright notices on it, sure. I'm not >> > sure how you're going to so this

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> >That's specific to that jurisdiction, not a part of a license. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:11:20PM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote: > I said it in other post: Brazilian law is modelled closed on the Berne > convention; possibly other jurisdictions have similar dispositions. And to some degree, any

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:18:04AM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: > In exactly the same place(s) that it is in gcc. In the source files, in the > output from --version, etc. Has metafont been put under the GPL? I hadn't realized that. In that case, I need to find another example. Unfortunately, I'm h

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Josh Triplett
Humberto Massa wrote: > 1. I get gcc's sources; > 1. (a) I have a valid license to it; > 2. I get metafont sources; > 2. (a) I also have a valid license to this; > -- up to this point, no license violation > 3. I make modifications to gcc and to metafont, taking care of : > 3. (a) not removing any

Re: GPL: for this list's review and pleasure

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
I have made some changes: -- begin version 2 Massa's little trying-to-be-comprehensive study about the GPL. © Humberto Massa 2004 This essay is hereby licensed to the reader, granting full rights of modification and redistribution, provided every derived work of it does: (1) maintain my c

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 15:39 : wrote Raul Miller : But some people have made claims that there are certain things we require of the license (such as the complete absence of restrictions on the right to create derivative works), regardless of the law. hmmm. In this, I side with you. > Let's see, ste

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 15:44 : wrote Raul Miller : On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 10:18:04AM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: > In exactly the same place(s) that it is in gcc. In the source > files, in the output from --version, etc. Has metafont been put under the GPL? I hadn't realized that. In that case, I need t

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Not because the LGPL doesn't deserve a summary, but because it hasn't > been done right. The entire license needs to be posted and carefully > scrutinized. Well, exactly in the LGPL case we don't need to scrutinize the entire license. We can do wit

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 16:12 : wrote Josh Triplett : Humberto Massa wrote: 1. I get gcc's sources; 1. (a) I have a valid license to it; 2. I get metafont sources; 2. (a) I also have a valid license to this; -- up to this point, no license violation 3. I make modifications to gcc and to metafont, takin

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 16:36 : wrote Humberto Massa : metagcc.patch is a derived work of your metagcc, which is a derived work of both gcc and metafont, so you cannot distribute metagcc.patch unless it satisfies the terms of gcc's license and metafont's license. Even if that is not the case, wouldn't thi

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 16:33 : wrote Henning Makholm : Scripsit Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Not because the LGPL doesn't deserve a summary, but because it hasn't been done right. The entire license needs to be posted and carefully scrutinized. Well, exactly in the LGPL case we don't n

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:21:53AM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > > There is nothing in the GPL that forbids functional modifications to > > GCC to make it integrate better with the environment. > Treat palladium as a meta-syntactic variable standing fo

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> > Here's where you start running into problems: GPL#2 requires you > > satisfy GPL#1 for the modified work, which now includes stuff you do > > not have the right to put under GPL's terms. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 04:09:50PM -0300, Humberto Massa wrote: > yeah, but as I did not redistribute (l

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:55:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > I really don't see where you are getting at. Can you explain in little > words and with lots of intermediate results why you think that a GCC > modified for you hypothetical environment would be non-distributable? Because it incorp

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Josh Triplett
Humberto Massa wrote: > @ 12/05/2004 16:12 : wrote Josh Triplett : >> Humberto Massa wrote: >>> 5. I will diff the sources from the resulting program with the >>> original sources >> >> This diff is a derived work of your program and the original sources. >> >>> -- no license violation. >>> 6. I w

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Humberto Massa
@ 12/05/2004 17:12 : wrote Henning Makholm : No, but not necessary either. Versions of GCC have been done for *many* proprietary operating systems. Many of these versions have been AND operating "environments", too. Like Java. Like DOS/GW or whatever were those DOS 32 bit extenders. Like Win

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:55:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > In this case, therefore, it does not restrict my right to distribute > the hypothetical Palladium GCC, because I would give the recipient the > same rights as I got myself. That runs into several difficulties. One of which is that

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> > Because it incorporates functionality implemented in proprietary > > code. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:41:32PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > It cannot do that if it is distributed with source and under the terms > of the GPL. That's what I've been saying. > I still don't know what you are g

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:55:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > > I really don't see where you are getting at. Can you explain in little > > words and with lots of intermediate results why you think that a GCC > > modified for you hypothetical environm

Re: Draft Debian-legal summary of the LGPL

2004-05-12 Thread Florian Weimer
* Henning Makholm: > Well, exactly in the LGPL case we don't need to scrutinize the entire > license. We can do with noticing that any work covered by the LGPL is > effectively dual-licensed with pure GPL, so the freedom of the former > follows from freedom of the latter. Linking with GPL-incompa

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:55:21PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > > In this case, therefore, it does not restrict my right to distribute > > the hypothetical Palladium GCC, because I would give the recipient the > > same rights as I got myself. > That r

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Because it incorporates functionality implemented in proprietary > > > code. > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:41:32PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > > It cannot do that if it is distributed with source and under the terms > > of the GPL. > That's what

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
> > One of which is that [for the purpose of this hypothesis] you had to > > purchase the right to develop using these palladium features. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:51:11PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > Where does your hyphotesis say that? I just now stated it. I had tried to make the complet

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:24:36AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > And I explained that your logic only applied to the parts which > were not licensed under the GPL -- not to the parts that are. Your counterargument doesn't make sense. DFSG#3 requires that "The license must allow modifications and de

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:57:28PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > Of course, if I make a derivation that includes code for which I do > not have copyright, I will need the copyright holder's permission to > distribut the result under the GPL. > > However, that is completely different from the GPL

middleman software license conflicts with OpenSSL

2004-05-12 Thread Cédric Delfosse
[ CC to debian-legal, Middleman ITP is bug #231953 ] Hello, middleman can't be accepted into Debian because of license conflicts. Your software is licensed under GPL, but must be linked with OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not GPL licensed but under an Apache-style licence [1], and so, unfortunately, the GPL

Re: The draft Position statement on the GFDL

2004-05-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 08:24:36AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > > And I explained that your logic only applied to the parts which > > were not licensed under the GPL -- not to the parts that are. On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:02:58PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > Your counterargument doesn't make sens

IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-12 Thread Frank Lichtenheld
Hi. I just wanted to package a piece of software and saw that it is licensed under the IBM Public License[1] (IPL). Since the license included some suspicios clauses I searched the list archives about it. The findings were confusing: - There are many discussions (e.g. [2], [3]) about the patent

ASL2 and artistic compatibility

2004-05-12 Thread Andres Salomon
It would appear that the new upstream release of libapache2-mod-perl2 has been relicensed; from the ASL 1.1 to the ASL 2.0. As has already been discussed, the ASL (both 1.1 and 2.0) and GPL are incompatible (at least, the FSF claims they are). What has previously been used w/ modperl (1 and 2, un

Re: IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-12 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-12 22:59:18 +0100 Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just wanted to package a piece of software and saw that it is licensed > under the IBM Public License[1] (IPL). Normally, you should include the licence text. > Since the license included some suspicios clauses I searc

Re: IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-12 Thread Walter Landry
Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi. > > I just wanted to package a piece of software and saw that it is licensed > under the IBM Public License[1] (IPL). > Since the license included some suspicios clauses I searched the list > archives about it. The findings were confusing: > > -

Bug#248782: abuse-sfx: violation of license terms

2004-05-12 Thread Andrew Saunders
Package: abuse-sfx Version: 2.00-8 Severity: serious Justification: Policy 2.3 To view the license terms, see the copyright file: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/a/abuse-sfx/abuse-sfx_2.00-8/copyright First off, the license only grants the right to *use* the software: > For

Re: IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-12 Thread Walter Landry
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2004-05-12 22:59:18 +0100 Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I just wanted to package a piece of software and saw that it is licensed > > under the IBM Public License[1] (IPL). > > Normally, you should include the licence text. > > > Since t

Re: IBM Public License (again)

2004-05-12 Thread Josh Triplett
MJ Ray wrote: > On 2004-05-12 22:59:18 +0100 Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>I just wanted to package a piece of software and saw that it is licensed >>under the IBM Public License[1] (IPL). > > Normally, you should include the licence text. > >>Since the license included some susp

Re: Bug#248782: abuse-sfx: violation of license terms

2004-05-12 Thread Benjamin Cutler
Does it make any difference that the company is question has been dissolved and they basically dropped everything into the public domain? From http://www.loonygames.com/content/1.10/guest/ --- Around July, Crack first missed payroll. August came and we moved out of the office. September offe