Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Patrick Matthäi wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 MJ Ray schrieb: Patrick Matthäi pmatth...@debian.org wrote: GeoIP is a quite usefull library for geolocation. It has got a stable ABI/API and upstream is normaly very helpfull with patches and issues. [...] Currently I see only three options: 1) upstream decides to open his build system 2) we move it to contrib with all consequences 3) we leave it as it is 4) we deduce the build system by looking at the CSVs and how the library uses the binary dat files, then junk the upstream-built dat files. I've no idea if this is feasible, but it's another option. 5) We create a new free database. I don't think is too difficult, and I think we would have support also at high level. But it needs a lot of communication works: the term of service of IANA and the RIRs (Regional Internet Registry) forbid to spider and publish data. OTOH I really think they will make an exception for us, or in general for such good networking data. Somebody would help me contacting and convincing the RIRs about a free geoIP database? ciao cate -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Giacomo A. Catenazzi c...@debian.org writes: 5) We create a new free database. I don't think is too difficult, and I think we would have support also at high level. But it needs a lot of communication works: the term of service of IANA and the RIRs (Regional Internet Registry) forbid to spider and publish data. OTOH I really think they will make an exception for us, or in general for such good networking data. Somebody would help me contacting and convincing the RIRs about a free geoIP database? I believe such usage can be considered within the RIRs AUPs, provided that you follow their guidelines for bulk downloads and only redistribute a small subset of the data (i.e. only the country attribute of the inetnum objects). You are aware of the GPLv3 licensed database at http://software77.net/geo-ip/ ? This database is used by Geo::IPfree, and probably other applications already part of Debian. Or did you want to provide more precise mapping than just IP to country? If so, then I'm afraid the RIRs won't help you much anyway. They don't collect that sort of geographic detail. Bjørn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
On Aug 26, Giacomo A. Catenazzi c...@debian.org wrote: 5) We create a new free database. I don't think is too difficult, and I think we would have support Sure, a database which can associate an IP address with a country 90% of the time will be easy to create and if widely used in a few years maybe will be precise enough. More than this requires serious money, both for maintenance and to buy the data from ISPs and online merchants. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Le mercredi 26 août 2009 à 11:09 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit : You are aware of the GPLv3 licensed database at http://software77.net/geo-ip/ ? Woohoo, nice. Combine this with Julien’s idea to implement support for a new database format, and I think you have the correct solution. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
RE: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Le mercredi 26 août 2009 à 11:09 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit : You are aware of the GPLv3 licensed database at http://software77.net/geo-ip/ ? Woohoo, nice. Combine this with Julien’s idea to implement support for a new database format, and I think you have the correct solution. And who ports it to this database format (they are incompatible) and maintains it in the future? I think this job may be as hard as reverse eng. it, or? Cheers.
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Hi Bjørn! On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:09:35 +0200, Bjørn Mork bj...@mork.no wrote: Somebody would help me contacting and convincing the RIRs about a free geoIP database? I believe such usage can be considered within the RIRs AUPs, provided that you follow their guidelines for bulk downloads and only redistribute a small subset of the data (i.e. only the country attribute of the inetnum objects). You are aware of the GPLv3 licensed database at http://software77.net/geo-ip/ ? This database is used by Geo::IPfree, and probably other applications already part of Debian. There is another geo-ip db packaged in Debian -- tor-geoipdb (used by Tor). But the problem described in the original mail is that it's unknown how to derive binary data file from source data, not absence of free data. So available alternatives will not help here. But looking into all this led to a bunch of questions for debian-legal. 1. maxmind. Web page[1] show that C code is under LGPL but data files are under Open Data License (BSD-like + fixed text acknowledgment -- slightly non-free?). However Debian copyright file lists only LGPL. Patrick, is it an informed decision or a bug? 2. tor-geoipdb. First, license[1] is not very clean and also contains fixed text acknowledgment -- is it free? Second, Some parts of the IP-to-Country Database are derived from APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE databases whose copyright details are given below and lack free licenses. Undistributable? Debian copyright file doesn't include RIR Licenses part for some reason. 3. http://software77.net/geo-ip/ . How is it possible for their data to be licensed under GPL when the data seems to come directly from RIRs? 4. Does RIRs have any copyright on their data to start with? Alexander Cherepanov [1] http://geolite.maxmind.com/download/geoip/database/LICENSE.txt -- There are two licenses, one for the C library software, and one for the database. SOFTWARE LICENSE (C library) The GeoIP C Library is licensed under the LGPL. For details see the COPYING file. OPEN DATA LICENSE (GeoLite Country and GeoLite City databases) Copyright (c) 2008 MaxMind, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All advertising materials and documentation mentioning features or use of this database must display the following acknowledgment: This product includes GeoLite data created by MaxMind, available from http://maxmind.com/; Redistribution and use with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: 1. Redistributions must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. 2. All advertising materials and documentation mentioning features or use of this database must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes GeoLite data created by MaxMind, available from http://maxmind.com/; 3. MaxMind may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this database without specific prior written permission. THIS DATABASE IS PROVIDED BY MAXMIND, INC ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MAXMIND BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS DATABASE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. -- [2] lynx -dump -nolist http://ip-to-country.webhosting.info/book/print/62 -- IP-to-Country Database License Copyright (c) 2003 Direct Information Pvt. Ltd. All Rights Reserved. All usage, reproduction, modification and derivative works created from, and distribution and publication of the IP-to-Country Database and your derivative works thereof must keep intact all copyright notices and give credit by displaying the following acknowledgment by replacing 'work' with one of the following: script, product, page, service or application: This 'work' uses the IP-to-Country Database provided by WebHosting.Info (http://www.webhosting.info), available from http://ip-to-country.webhosting.info.; BECAUSE THE DATABASE IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE DATABASE, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Cherepanov schrieb: Hi Bjørn! On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:09:35 +0200, Bjørn Mork bj...@mork.no wrote: Somebody would help me contacting and convincing the RIRs about a free geoIP database? I believe such usage can be considered within the RIRs AUPs, provided that you follow their guidelines for bulk downloads and only redistribute a small subset of the data (i.e. only the country attribute of the inetnum objects). You are aware of the GPLv3 licensed database at http://software77.net/geo-ip/ ? This database is used by Geo::IPfree, and probably other applications already part of Debian. There is another geo-ip db packaged in Debian -- tor-geoipdb (used by Tor). But the problem described in the original mail is that it's unknown how to derive binary data file from source data, not absence of free data. So available alternatives will not help here. But looking into all this led to a bunch of questions for debian-legal. 1. maxmind. Web page[1] show that C code is under LGPL but data files are under Open Data License (BSD-like + fixed text acknowledgment -- slightly non-free?). However Debian copyright file lists only LGPL. Patrick, is it an informed decision or a bug? I am aware of it, my plan was to fix first the source - dat problem and then in the same way the license. The license for the source database is free. 2. tor-geoipdb. First, license[1] is not very clean and also contains fixed text acknowledgment -- is it free? Second, Some parts of the IP-to-Country Database are derived from APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE databases whose copyright details are given below and lack free licenses. Undistributable? Debian copyright file doesn't include RIR Licenses part for some reason. 3. http://software77.net/geo-ip/ . How is it possible for their data to be licensed under GPL when the data seems to come directly from RIRs? Is this *realy* our job? We do not know from where the data is and if they come from RIR = maybe there is some silent acknowledgment. Also someone noted in the thread (I think on devel it was) that the data may be used in limited editions (e.g. only the associated country, but not the contact informations). - -- /* Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards, Patrick Matthäi GNU/Linux Debian Developer E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org patr...@linux-dev.org Comment: Always if we think we are right, we were maybe wrong. */ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkqVZOQACgkQ2XA5inpabMdjIgCfbhr6LnLrqH3bZo/32LSaN0xS cawAn3zpNN4/yp9ETLv+Ov0DuJ6sgFiv =V1wc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:53:49 +0400 Alexander Cherepanov wrote: [...] 1. maxmind. Web page[1] show that C code is under LGPL but data files are under Open Data License (BSD-like + fixed text acknowledgment -- slightly non-free?). This Open Data License looks like something more or less equivalent to the 4-clause BSD license (even though rephrased with a database in mind, rather than software). The 4-clause BSD license has been traditionally considered as meeting the DFSG (although deprecated). It's (L)GPL-incompatible, but, in the present case, I am under the impression that data files are merely aggregated with (and indeed used as data by) the C code: as a consequence, the license incompatibility should not be an issue. [...] [1] http://geolite.maxmind.com/download/geoip/database/LICENSE.txt -- There are two licenses, one for the C library software, and one for the database. SOFTWARE LICENSE (C library) The GeoIP C Library is licensed under the LGPL. For details see the COPYING file. OPEN DATA LICENSE (GeoLite Country and GeoLite City databases) Copyright (c) 2008 MaxMind, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All advertising materials and documentation mentioning features or use of this database must display the following acknowledgment: This product includes GeoLite data created by MaxMind, available from http://maxmind.com/; Redistribution and use with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: 1. Redistributions must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. 2. All advertising materials and documentation mentioning features or use of this database must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes GeoLite data created by MaxMind, available from http://maxmind.com/; 3. MaxMind may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this database without specific prior written permission. THIS DATABASE IS PROVIDED BY MAXMIND, INC ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MAXMIND BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS DATABASE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. -- -- New location for my website! Update your bookmarks! http://www.inventati.org/frx . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpSgpEdcXDUd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Serious problem with geoip - databases could not be build from source
Hi Patrick! On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:37:56 +0200, Patrick Matthäi pmatth...@debian.org wrote: 1. maxmind. Web page[1] show that C code is under LGPL but data files are under Open Data License (BSD-like + fixed text acknowledgment -- slightly non-free?). However Debian copyright file lists only LGPL. Patrick, is it an informed decision or a bug? I am aware of it, my plan was to fix first the source - dat problem and then in the same way the license. Ok. The license for the source database is free. Ok 2. tor-geoipdb. First, license[1] is not very clean and also contains fixed text acknowledgment -- is it free? Second, Some parts of the IP-to-Country Database are derived from APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE databases whose copyright details are given below and lack free licenses. Undistributable? Debian copyright file doesn't include RIR Licenses part for some reason. 3. http://software77.net/geo-ip/ . How is it possible for their data to be licensed under GPL when the data seems to come directly from RIRs? Is this *realy* our job? We do not know from where the data is and if From their FAQ ( http://software77.net/faq.html ): Q. I found an IP you don't have in your database. Can I sent it to you? Please don't! We cannot add or remove IPs from the database. The process we use is automated and the IPs in the database are as as we get them from the various registries around the world. If a registry does not list an IP the only way to get it in our database is for the registry to add it to their database. We can't do that. Initial data is from registries. And the final data is a result of automated process. So I don't see how they claim any copyright on it. they come from RIR = maybe there is some silent acknowledgment. That's possibile but in this case I expect to see at least copyright notices of RIRs. The only copyright notice in .csv is #© 2002-2009 Webnet77.com Also someone noted in the thread (I think on devel it was) that the data may be used in limited editions (e.g. only the associated country, but not the contact informations). Then it would be in public domain? Alexander Cherepanov -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: ITP: ssreflect -- small scale reflection extension for the Coq proof assistant
MJ Ray a écrit : I think we've consensus on software that uses CeCILL (upgradeable to GPL, so meets DFSG) and we've discussed CeCILL-C, but what do we think of B? My searches didn't find much discussion of it here, or any packages in the archive using it yet. A copy follows. Please cc the bug report on relevant replies. The new version of ssreflect is licensed under CeCILL-2 *or* CeCILL-B. Since CeCILL-2 has been agreed to be DFSG-free, I think there is no problem any more. I've just uploaded ssreflect. It is sitting in NEW. It is also available in OCaml team's git repository: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-ocaml-maint/packages/ssreflect.git Cheers, -- Stéphane -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
