On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 07:27:51AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
I'll further note that someone not familiar with the debian-legal lists
relationship to the Debian project, and encountering legally void,
factually incorrect, and grossly inflammetory comments such as those
authored, repeatedly,
On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 02:18:00AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 07:27:51AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
I'll further note that someone not familiar with the debian-legal lists
relationship to the Debian project, and encountering legally void,
factually incorrect, and
On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 11:48:36PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
Is getting the last word on a public mailing list regarding an issue that
has already been amicably resolved by the parties involved an element of
civil and polite discussion?
I do believe a person being publically flamed has some
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Like many participants on this list, I'm also not a DD, and have never
represented myself to be one.
To be fair, few participants on this list describe where they're coming
from. Some of the older names I recognise and some of the more notorious
idiots are
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 02:15:46AM +0300, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:15:36PM -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
Ok, change committed. You are now attributed in the administrivia section.
Thanks for the great doc.
You suck. You know you just ended a potentially great and
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Under US copyright law, I and any other author am in fact granted a
number of specific rights, and are legally empowered to enforce those
rights under numerous civil and criminal actions. [...]
Sure. A good faith attempt was made to resolve this in
Quoting Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com):
Package: debian-installer-manual
Severity: serious
Justification: Policy 2.3
(no legal nitpicking in the following, just common sense)
Please note for further reference that each and every line, paragraph,
documentation, translation, line of
It's pretty lame that in your crusade for user freedom, you seek to
take away the last right the developer has -- being credited for his
work. What a joke you have become.
--
Chris
With the way things are starting to go in this country, if forced to
choose between being caught with a van full
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 20:36:51 -0400 Glenn Maynard wrote:
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:17:43AM +0200, Francesco Poli wrote:
Wait one second...
Of course excision is possible, but is it really a good idea?
I don't think so.
That's not d-legal's decision, or the DPL's. It's the maintainer's
Bug dropped, as this matter is resolved, posted to d-l only.
First off, I'd like to thank the several people in this discussion who
do have contributed intelligently and meaningfully to the conversation
and supported a reasonable resolution, including Michael K. Edwards,
Rick Moen, Francesco
debian-legal and DPL added to distribution.
This bug concerns appropriate copyright notice in the Debian Installer
Guide which adapts substantial material originally written by me.
My license allows use under DFSG compliant guidelines, but requests
attribution. I initially requested attribution
IANAL, IANADD, but it's hard for me to imagine that there is any
sensible or just way to resolve this other than to credit Karsten with
a significant contribution to the Guide. Such a guide is of course
largely factual and could bear many resemblances to Karsten's without
constituting plagiarism
Karsten M. Self wrote:
debian-legal and DPL added to distribution.
I'm afraid that by escalating this unnecessarily, as well as resorting
to certian rhetoric (for which I cannot be bothered to do a
point-by-point rebuttal), you've convinced me it's best I bow out of the
discussion, permantly.
on Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:16:29PM -0400, Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Karsten M. Self wrote:
debian-legal and DPL added to distribution.
I'm afraid that by escalating this unnecessarily, as well as resorting
to certian rhetoric (for which I cannot be bothered to do a
Dropped [EMAIL PROTECTED] What the hell were you thinking? Throwing a tantrum
and screaming at every email address you can find doesn't make your
argument more valid (on the contrary, it suggests that you don't have
much of an argument at all).
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:36:14PM -0700, Karsten
on Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:34:54PM -0400, Glenn Maynard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Dropped [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fair enough for now.
What the hell were you thinking?
That after three years of trying to get appropriate credit I might as
well take this to the top.
Throwing a tantrum and
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:34:54PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
The fact that you're trying to coerce a maintainer to include a work
instead of attempting to address his reasons for doing so, is enough for
me to agree with Joey's decision.
That doesn't actually seem to me to be what he's doing.
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A past error does not prohibit the maintainer from excising any part
of the work, at his discretion. You don't get to say you made a
mistake in the past, so you're not allowed to remove my work now.
Regardless of what we do in future versions, we're
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:36:14PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
The Debian Project has been distributing this work in violation of my
copyrights. I've previously requested this be remedied in 2003, the
situation remains uncorrected:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:08:24PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Regardless of what we do in future versions, we're currently
distributing material in violation of a copyright holder's license. Our
choices are pretty much:
a) Remove the material concerned from the installation guide in woody
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:08:24PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
a) Remove the material concerned from the installation guide in woody
and sarge and get new versions uploaded to the archive. Apologise
profusely. Potentially still be sued.
d) Add
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:01:26 -0700 Michael K. Edwards wrote:
IANAL, IANADD, but it's hard for me to imagine that there is any
sensible or just way to resolve this other than to credit Karsten with
a significant contribution to the Guide. Such a guide is of course
largely factual and could
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 16:34:54 -0400 Glenn Maynard wrote:
[...]
- I would prefer attribution to excision.
Being DFSG-free is a prerequisite for being in Debian, but being DFSG-
free does not compel Debian to include a work. Your preferences don't
make excision of a work unacceptable.
Wait
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:58:07PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Sure. That's fairly equivalent to (a).
Just in case I wasn't clear, the point was that the fix for past stable
releases, and the fix for unstable and the next release, are unrelated;
it's reasonable to do entirely different things,
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:17:43AM +0200, Francesco Poli wrote:
Wait one second...
Of course excision is possible, but is it really a good idea?
I don't think so.
That's not d-legal's decision, or the DPL's. It's the maintainer's
decision. There are procedures in place to overrule a
This one time, at band camp, Glenn Maynard said:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:58:07PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
So you think it's acceptable to have a work in main, whose license is
if you're Debian, you're never allowed to remove this work, or I'll
sue you for an unrelated,
on Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 05:08:27PM -0500, Bill Allombert ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:36:14PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
The Debian Project has been distributing this work in violation of my
copyrights. I've previously requested this be remedied in 2003, the
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:16:29PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
Karsten M. Self wrote:
debian-legal and DPL added to distribution.
I'm afraid that by escalating this unnecessarily, as well as resorting
to certian rhetoric (for which I cannot be bothered to do a
point-by-point rebuttal), you've
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 09:02:46PM -0400, Stephen Gran wrote:
Do you really not understand actual license issues? There is, as I
understand it, a currently released work, which knowingly incorporates a
substantial amount of Karsten's work, and violates his license in doing
so. This is not
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:58:07PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Yes. And?
So you think it's acceptable to have a work in main, whose license is
if you're Debian, you're never allowed to remove this work, or I'll
sue you for an unrelated,
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:36:14PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
This bug concerns appropriate copyright notice in the Debian Installer
Guide which adapts substantial material originally written by me.
My license allows use under DFSG compliant guidelines, but requests
attribution. I
(It's all well and good to say one's dropping a thread, but so much
harder to stick to. Trying, trying ...)
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 03:20:31AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Really. Listen to yourself. Are you honestly claiming that someone
asking that we acknowledge his (involuntary)
On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 11:15:36PM -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
Ok, change committed. You are now attributed in the administrivia section.
Thanks for the great doc.
You suck. You know you just ended a potentially great and entertaining
flamewar by leaving one side without arguments? ;-)
(jk, of
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