Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
Enrico Zini dijo [Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 04:04:40PM +0100]: On Freitag, 14. August 2009, Enrico Zini wrote: How about an upside down approach instead? [...] Is this way clearer? On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 01:31:31PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Way better, IMHO. I fully welcome and second the proposal. That will give us much better opportunity to really interact in a non-bot-like fashion with applicants and focus on what is actually useful and important. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 01:44:49PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: Yes, IMHO this is the way it should be done. Ok, I've put the new version in the wiki page. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini enr...@enricozini.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 06:21:32PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: The first bit that I wanted to add to it was Things to do before asking questions from the templates, where I'd like to condensate some of the things discussed during Debconf. I've already added it to the wiki page, but then I thought it's best to brainstorm entries here before putting them in the page. So here it is, I'll take care of updating the wiki after the brainstorming: == Things to do before asking questions from the templates == 1. Use http://ddportfolio.debian.net/ and the [[http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/nm/trunk/nm-templates/minechangelogs|minechangelogs]] script to look for comprehensive Debian activity; if found, just ask about philosophy and very little of procedures. 2. If comprehensive Debian activity is not easily seen, ask advocate to provide links to external or non-visible activity: maybe there is much more than meets the eye. 3. If there is still something that you feel like you need to know, ask. Pick questions from the templates if you consider them useful. The more you find in point 1 and 2, the less is likely to be needed at this point. 4. If no particular Debian activity is found and the advocate cannot provide good reasons for continuing with the application, soft reject. How about an upside down approach instead? 1. Take all questions from the templates. 2. Use http://ddportfolio.debian.net/ and the [[http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/nm/trunk/nm-templates/minechangelogs|minechangelogs]] script to look for comprehensive Debian activity; if found, remove the questions about those things that you can see the applicant already knows. For really good candidates, this can mean going all the way to removing all TS and Procedures, and just include in the AM report the output of minechangelogs and the other things that you found. Don't waste the time of excellent people. 3. If comprehensive Debian activity is not easily seen, ask the advocate to provide links to external or non-visible activity: maybe there is much more than meets the eye. If found, remove the questions that you can see the applicant already knows. 4. Ask the questions that remain, or give practical tasks on those remaining areas that you'd like to explore with the applicant. If no activity in or outside Debian is found, it may be a better idea to not ask any question at all and just reject the applicant. Discuss with the advocate if unsure. Is this way clearer? Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini enr...@enricozini.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 06:21:32PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: The first bit that I wanted to add to it was Things to do before asking questions from the templates, where I'd like to condensate some of the things discussed during Debconf. Ah. Are there records of those discussions? Was DAM involved? It seems to involve trying to reduce the templated questions asked so I was wondering how as an AM you know if you've asked enough to satisfy FD and DAM. -- ,--huggie-at-earth-dot-listuff-thing-stuff--DF5CE2B4--. _| Cows turn themselves inside out all the time. - Officer, South Park |_ | | ` http://www.earth.li/~huggie/ ---' signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
Hi! Simon Huggins schrieb: Ah. Are there records of those discussions? No, not all sessions could be covered :( Was DAM involved? Yes, at least Jörg Ganneff Jaspert and Wouter were present, maybe Christoph Myon Berg, too, but I could be wrong with Christoph (having a seat in the row behing the last one). Best regards, Alexander signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:07:53AM +0100, Simon Huggins wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 06:21:32PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: The first bit that I wanted to add to it was Things to do before asking questions from the templates, where I'd like to condensate some of the things discussed during Debconf. Ah. Are there records of those discussions? Was DAM involved? It seems to involve trying to reduce the templated questions asked so I was wondering how as an AM you know if you've asked enough to satisfy FD and DAM. The notes have been posted here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2009/07/msg00034.html I think that the main thing that can be extracted from the notes to answer your question is this one: - common sense is more effective that you'd imagine I'm neither part of FD nor DAM, but that was IIRC the consensus during the BOF. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini enr...@enricozini.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
Enrico Zini dijo [Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 04:58:22PM +0100]: The first bit that I wanted to add to it was Things to do before asking questions from the templates, where I'd like to condensate some of the things discussed during Debconf. Ah. Are there records of those discussions? Was DAM involved? It seems to involve trying to reduce the templated questions asked so I was wondering how as an AM you know if you've asked enough to satisfy FD and DAM. The notes have been posted here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2009/07/msg00034.html I think that the main thing that can be extracted from the notes to answer your question is this one: - common sense is more effective that you'd imagine I'm neither part of FD nor DAM, but that was IIRC the consensus during the BOF. A couple of weeks before this discussion, I was talking about this same topic with Mako, who stopped by for some days in Mexico (and who I am adding as a Cc: in case he does not follow -newmaint). He strongly stressed that he never follows the template questions, and I found his position quite sound. Although more time-consuming and engaging for the AM (and possibly for FD+DAM at the review, as they would not be familiar at all with the topics discussed), engaging in a true conversation leading to find the weakest -or most interesting- spots in an applicant's PP and TS. Mako told me he used to push people to stay away from templates, but is less pushy nowadays as he is less active/visible here. He told me he would publish (at least in an AM-visible way) a couple of his mail interchanges — I believe we can learn a bit from that approach. So, this mail is basically to push him to do so :) -- Gunnar Wolf • gw...@gwolf.org • (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 pgpo5bUxLfu08.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote: Simon Huggins schrieb: Ah. Are there records of those discussions? No, not all sessions could be covered :( This one was specifically not recorded in case we had to discuss examples of problematic NM. Was DAM involved? Yes, at least Jörg Ganneff Jaspert and Wouter were present, maybe Christoph Myon Berg, too, but I could be wrong with Christoph (having a seat in the row behing the last one). Ganneff was there but not Myon. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-newmaint-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
http://wiki.debian.org/FrontDesk/Tips
Hello, I've just started a wiki page (see subject) to collect tips for AMs or NMs. The first bit that I wanted to add to it was Things to do before asking questions from the templates, where I'd like to condensate some of the things discussed during Debconf. I've already added it to the wiki page, but then I thought it's best to brainstorm entries here before putting them in the page. So here it is, I'll take care of updating the wiki after the brainstorming: == Things to do before asking questions from the templates == 1. Use http://ddportfolio.debian.net/ and the [[http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/nm/trunk/nm-templates/minechangelogs|minechangelogs]] script to look for comprehensive Debian activity; if found, just ask about philosophy and very little of procedures. 2. If comprehensive Debian activity is not easily seen, ask advocate to provide links to external or non-visible activity: maybe there is much more than meets the eye. 3. If there is still something that you feel like you need to know, ask. Pick questions from the templates if you consider them useful. The more you find in point 1 and 2, the less is likely to be needed at this point. 4. If no particular Debian activity is found and the advocate cannot provide good reasons for continuing with the application, soft reject. Once we are done with this one, I'd like to do more: here is a list of other tips page that I'd like to brainstorm then add to that wiki page. Feel free to send me more, I'll add them to the queue: - How to advocate effectively - How to deal with unresponsive NMs - What to do if unsure about applicant - What to do if unsure about the AM - How to go through NM quickly Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini enr...@enricozini.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
