Bug#1035056: Disappointed
Hi, an (in some way) outstanders point of view for this discussion. Am 16.05.23 um 09:37 schrieb x s: It’s really disappointing that the only reason for blocking Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.104 is that there’s “too many packages”. It's disappointing that KDE people like this do not care at all about established rules and just start lobbying people because of their usually clueless userbase I observe on mailing list... KDE upstream has stopped feature development for Plasma 5.x and Frameworks 5.x with the releases of Plasma 5.27.0 and Frameworks 5.100, because the focus has completely switched to developing Plasma 6.0 and Frameworks 6.0 [1] [this link also explains the Fibonacci release cycle that you asked about]. Which is basically the same for many packages. I am njust going to talk about another prominent free software for desktops: LibreOffice (which I "normally" don't even use but maintain) That means Plasma 5.27.x and Frameworks 5.1xx are strictly only bug fix releases, they contain absolutely no new features and no major regressions have been reported in the newer versions. Just check the changelogs for every Plasma release since 5.27.2 and every Frameworks release since 5.103 (the versions Testing is stuck on), there have been *hundreds* of bugs fixed since. Cherry-picking fixes for the most prominent crashes just isn’t practical considering especially how many bugs were fixed in Plasma 5.27.3 alone. Same for LibreOffice for example. With the difference that the 7.4.x branch is dead basically now (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/7.4) but also has "Only important bug fixes, and l10n improvements". Also quite a sh*load of bugfixes. See [2] I could have uploaded 7.4.7 two weeks ago, which would have even saved a last minute upload to fix two security issues because they were fixed upstream in that version Still I followed the freze and didn't upload 7.4.6 and 7.4.7. So should KDE and so should anyone. I’d like to remind you that GNOME 43.4 was allowed to migrate recently; why does GNOME get special treatment and KDE has to stay stuck on an older, buggier version? Debian KDE users would strongly appreciate you changing your stance and allowing the best versions to be included on release. I could say "Why does KDE get special treatment and LibreOffice has to stay stuck on an older, buggier version? Debian LibreOffice users would strongly appreciate you changing your stance and allowing the best versions to be included on release." See the problem? (actually I complained about that double morable and on doing this in effect in a secret cabal meeting yesterday on IRC) > If you still are not convinced on allowing these to be unblocked, would you at least consider allowing them to migrate for the Debian 12.1 point release? Again, I’d like to remind you that these are long-term support releases, they strictly fix bugs and contain no new features. There are absolutely no downsides to allowing them to migrate so they can be in Debian 12. I definitely have learned from this and will refer to this bug next freeze and get the latest LibreOffice in. (And try to get it updated in 12.1). There's no reason to deny that given this (imminent) approval of 50 source packages compared to one. All the other parameters are the same. Regards, Rene [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/7.4 [2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/7.4.6/RC1#List_of_fixed_bugs https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/7.4.6/RC2#List_of_fixed_bugs https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/7.4.7/RC1#List_of_fixed_bugs https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/7.4.7/RC2#List_of_fixed_bugs
Bug#1035056: Disappointed
Dear x s, Le 16 mai 2023 09:37:32 GMT+02:00, x s a écrit : >It’s really disappointing that the only reason for blocking Plasma 5.27.5 and >Frameworks 5.104 is that there’s “too many packages”. we understand that users are eager to see Plasma updated, we (the KDE packaging team) are too, thanks for your feedback. I'd prefer that we discuss the way to make it happen between the KDE packaging team and the release team in a dispassionate way though. >I’d like to remind you that GNOME 43.4 was allowed to migrate recently; why >does GNOME get special treatment and KDE has to stay stuck on an older, >buggier version? Debian KDE users would strongly appreciate you changing your >stance and allowing the best versions to be included on release. These were 2 packages : gnome-shell and mutter. We're talking 50+ packages for Plasma so it's nothing comparable. Paul raised some valid concerns in that regard and we're preparing a response. >If you still are not convinced on allowing these to be unblocked, would you at >least consider allowing them to migrate for the Debian 12.1 point release? >Again, I’d like to remind you that these are long-term support releases, they >strictly fix bugs and contain no new features. There are absolutely no >downsides to allowing them to migrate so they can be in Debian 12. Yes, we (the KDE packaging team) would very much like to do that if it's not possible to get an unblock before the release. No guarantee that it can fit into our release and stable updates processes though, so no guarantees. Stay tuned and please let us think about the implications and manage the topic in a way that is appropriate for a stable Debian release. All the best, -- Aurélien
Bug#1035056: Disappointed
It’s really disappointing that the only reason for blocking Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.104 is that there’s “too many packages”. KDE upstream has stopped feature development for Plasma 5.x and Frameworks 5.x with the releases of Plasma 5.27.0 and Frameworks 5.100, because the focus has completely switched to developing Plasma 6.0 and Frameworks 6.0 [1] [this link also explains the Fibonacci release cycle that you asked about]. That means Plasma 5.27.x and Frameworks 5.1xx are strictly only bug fix releases, they contain absolutely no new features and no major regressions have been reported in the newer versions. Just check the changelogs for every Plasma release since 5.27.2 and every Frameworks release since 5.103 (the versions Testing is stuck on), there have been *hundreds* of bugs fixed since. Cherry-picking fixes for the most prominent crashes just isn’t practical considering especially how many bugs were fixed in Plasma 5.27.3 alone. I’d like to remind you that GNOME 43.4 was allowed to migrate recently; why does GNOME get special treatment and KDE has to stay stuck on an older, buggier version? Debian KDE users would strongly appreciate you changing your stance and allowing the best versions to be included on release. If you still are not convinced on allowing these to be unblocked, would you at least consider allowing them to migrate for the Debian 12.1 point release? Again, I’d like to remind you that these are long-term support releases, they strictly fix bugs and contain no new features. There are absolutely no downsides to allowing them to migrate so they can be in Debian 12. Thank you for your consideration and your hard work maintaining Debian. [1] https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Plasma_5 - “This is the last Plasma 5 release and will receive bugfixes only, no new features. The bugfixes are intended to continue being integrated into 5.27 until a first version of Plasma 6 can be released (and might continue longer).”
