Re: Debian Math Team
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 05:05:32PM +0200, Gard Spreemann wrote: Hi, > That being said, my opinion on the matter is not a strong > one, and if a math team is indeed formed, please do add me to it (Salsa > user "gspr"). Done, thanks! > I currently maintain the following math packages: gudhi, hera, lbfgsb, > phat, python-pot, ripser. Do consider moving $things there. Regards, Nilesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Math Team
Torrance, Douglas writes: > During the Debian Science BoF at this year's DebConf, there was some > discussion of creating a team devoted to packaging mathematical software. > > This seemed like a pretty good idea, so I figured that I'd go ahead and > start working on getting it set up. I've already created a Salsa group [1] > and a team on the Debian Package Tracker [2]. If you're interested in > joining, then you should be able to sign up at these links. > > I figured next would be applying for a mailing list, putting together a team > policy, etc. Any thoughts? Hi Douglas, Nice initiative! I do think I agree with the comments made by others about fragmentation thoguh; to me it would probably even make sense to have the science, med, AI, and math teams all together in one big lump (the "computational software" team?), rather than adding yet another separate one. That being said, my opinion on the matter is not a strong one, and if a math team is indeed formed, please do add me to it (Salsa user "gspr"). I currently maintain the following math packages: gudhi, hera, lbfgsb, phat, python-pot, ripser. Best, Gard signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: unmaintained potential important CaRMetal (GeoGebra alike)
On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:15:15AM +0200, Ben Tris wrote: > This package can probably be updated to version 4.3 from 2019. > I think it is written in the Java language therefore also cc to Java list. > > CaRMetal is probably more advanced than GeoGebra in Debian. > > Already made a reply with more info to a message from 2012. > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=664828 I went ahead and orphaned the package, as it was maintained by somebody who is no DD/DM, matinaining only one package and no uploads in more than a decade. Feel free to adopt it if anybody is interested. https://bugs.debian.org/998117 -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. More about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Math Team
Hi On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 11:26:32AM +0200, Ole Streicher wrote: > Anton Gladky writes: > > well, I think that it just increases a fragmentation. > > Based on my own experience with debian-astro, I don't see this as a > problem: If there is enough enhusiasm, an own blend gives much more > possibilities and a more fine-grained structure for packaging, and a > higher visibility. And it gives people a higher motivation to > contribute. > > I still think that "debian-science" is a kind-of umbrella blend, which > is the parent of other science blends (like d-astro), but also the > default for packages that don't have another specific blend. > > For the team policy, I would recommend to inherit the science team > policy. Full ACK, thanks for sharing. > BTW; It tried to join the salsa group but couldn't. Could someone add me > please? Added, thanks :) Nilesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Math Team
Hi, On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 02:52:25PM +0300, Andrius Merkys wrote: > On 2021-10-30 14:45, Anton Gladky wrote: >>From my point of view, we have enough really useful work in Debian which >> needs to be done (fixing bugs, adding autopkgtests, setting-up >> CI-pipelines etc.) >> instead of moving packages between teams. ... and setting up a separate team could ease-off looking at those issues, and fixing them quicky, making better quality math software for end users. While otherwise I'd be looking up for specific packages in a huge pile.. > Couldn't agree more. Uploader agreement to moving is a must, IMO. Ofcourse, no-one is doing a hostile takeover here. Nilesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Math Team
Hi Andrius, Thanks for replying. See below :- On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 10:33:02AM +0300, Andrius Merkys wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-10-29 20:31, Torrance, Douglas wrote: > > During the Debian Science BoF at this year's DebConf, there was some > > discussion of creating a team devoted to packaging mathematical software. > > I agree with Anton here. I do not see how further fragmentation of > debian-science could benefit it. I missed the BoF, but maybe there are > notes reflecting this decision? No notes, Andreas came up with this idea in debconf, you could find it on videos.debian.net. But anyways, I have the following point to make: 1. Separate team will help keep track of math-specific software, making it easy for interested folks to work on them. Currently there is no specific team, and packages are scattered across several teams which is (in my eyes) a bit haphazard 2. debian-math meta-package (with a separate team) -- this will help researchers to get math related software and tooling in one go (exactly like the debian-med metapackage) 3. Easier to find and contribute for people -- I am sure there are a lot of people on this list, and even DDs who are interested in math, having such a team helps them approach and contribute well. 4. Better maintainance - Lots of math softwares which are still lying un-updated, or broken in some ways. So it helps improve the overall quality 5. We have debichem team for chemistry packages, astro team for astronomy ones, and now even a new robotics team We had a new AI team made a few months back. These would also come under science earlier, so if we could make teams for specific domains, *and* they are doing well, why not do so for math? I mean this comes as a very natural choice to me, considering other blends. > Separate team and separate mailing list will have less members than > debian-science. Well, every other team has started exactly the same way in Debian (i.e. less members) -- it would grow with time, I don't think it'll be stalled for ever. I could _somehat_ agree with the mailing list thingy, maybe we can keep using this list for discussions. > Furthermore, from my experience one does not need domain > knowledge to successfully package and maintain packages in Debian. > What makes more sense to me, is organizing packages into teams based on > programming languages and build/test systems, as such teams indeed > possess specific knowledge. I think most of the mails asking for help in > debian-med concern language and build system problems, not > domain-specific issues. I'm sorry, but I have to admit this argument of yours is sloppy, Andrius. By this logic, we could push entire debian-med python packages into python-team, java packages into java-team and so on... You also mentioned debian-med above, so if you think everything would be per-language organised, why do you think separate teams (like -med, or -astro) should even exist? The whole point of blends is to help people with "specific" needs, right. and such teams help organize that in a reliable way. And Fwiw, people do ask sometimes about software in debian-med (check element), people do file bug reports there, et. al. Many upstreams are tied to -med team, and that could've never happened without domain-specific knowledge. > I am worried reading about R packages being moved from debian-r to new > debian-math. I am afraid doing so might negatively impact their quality. You are right in your worries, but I have some statistics to present here. See here[1] or more specifically, look here[2,3] You would notice that in recent times, the most active people there (Andreas, myself, Steffen, Dylan etc) are also the members of debian-med and also the members of debian-science. And if we have a math team, I'm sure atleasts some of these people would be involved there. The number of pure math software in R package team is in no way overflowing, so I really think this should be manageable. The probability of it having a bit-rot will be less -- atleast not high with me, Andreas, Doug et. al. being around. However if you very strongly feel about it, we could leave the R packages where they are and continue maintaining them under R package umbrella. Should you want more explanation, do let me know and I'll be happy to discuss. [1]: http://blends.debian.net/liststats/ [2]: http://blends.debian.net/liststats/uploaders_r-pkg.png [3]: http://blends.debian.net/liststats/commitstat_pkg-r.png Nilesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Math Team
Hi all, I found this quote of myself from 2007: > Last year, I was thinking about starting something like « Debian > Biology », and Andreas Tille suggested me to join the Debian-Med project > instead. I think that I would hardly have acheived anyhing if I had not > listened to his advice. https://lists.debian.org/debian-blends/2007/02/msg00014.html Have a nice week-end ! Charles -- Charles Plessy Nagahama, Yomitan, Okinawa, Japan Debian Med packaging team http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med Tooting from work, https://mastodon.technology/@charles_plessy Tooting from home, https://framapiaf.org/@charles_plessy
Re: Debian Math Team
While I agree, this may also be good thing. There will be more Sprints (I hope) with then more people that are brought to our community at large. And Debian so far does very well in keeping all those fragments together. Best, Steffen On 30.10.21 01:55, Anton Gladky wrote: Hi Doug, well, I think that it just increases a fragmentation. But it is up to you. Best regards Anton Am Fr., 29. Okt. 2021 um 22:04 Uhr schrieb Torrance, Douglas : During the Debian Science BoF at this year's DebConf, there was some discussion of creating a team devoted to packaging mathematical software. This seemed like a pretty good idea, so I figured that I'd go ahead and start working on getting it set up. I've already created a Salsa group [1] and a team on the Debian Package Tracker [2]. If you're interested in joining, then you should be able to sign up at these links. I figured next would be applying for a mailing list, putting together a team policy, etc. Any thoughts? Doug [1] https://salsa.debian.org/math-team [2] https://tracker.debian.org/teams/math/
Re: Debian Math Team
On 2021-10-30 14:45, Anton Gladky wrote: > I do not see any benefits from creating a one-more team. It decreases > definitely bus-factor of the package, will unlikely increase their quality > and for end-users it is mostly not visible, in what team it is maintained. > > Sure, feel free to create it, if you want, but please do not move any existing > packages from any team to a new one without prior confirmation of all > uploaders. > >>From my point of view, we have enough really useful work in Debian which > needs to be done (fixing bugs, adding autopkgtests, setting-up > CI-pipelines etc.) > instead of moving packages between teams. Couldn't agree more. Uploader agreement to moving is a must, IMO. Best, Andrius
Re: Debian Math Team
I do not see any benefits from creating a one-more team. It decreases definitely bus-factor of the package, will unlikely increase their quality and for end-users it is mostly not visible, in what team it is maintained. Sure, feel free to create it, if you want, but please do not move any existing packages from any team to a new one without prior confirmation of all uploaders. >From my point of view, we have enough really useful work in Debian which needs to be done (fixing bugs, adding autopkgtests, setting-up CI-pipelines etc.) instead of moving packages between teams. Cheers Anton
Re: Debian Math Team
Anton Gladky writes: > well, I think that it just increases a fragmentation. Based on my own experience with debian-astro, I don't see this as a problem: If there is enough enhusiasm, an own blend gives much more possibilities and a more fine-grained structure for packaging, and a higher visibility. And it gives people a higher motivation to contribute. I still think that "debian-science" is a kind-of umbrella blend, which is the parent of other science blends (like d-astro), but also the default for packages that don't have another specific blend. For the team policy, I would recommend to inherit the science team policy. BTW; It tried to join the salsa group but couldn't. Could someone add me please? Cheers Ole
Re: Debian Math Team
Hi, On 2021-10-29 20:31, Torrance, Douglas wrote: > During the Debian Science BoF at this year's DebConf, there was some > discussion of creating a team devoted to packaging mathematical software. I agree with Anton here. I do not see how further fragmentation of debian-science could benefit it. I missed the BoF, but maybe there are notes reflecting this decision? Separate team and separate mailing list will have less members than debian-science. Furthermore, from my experience one does not need domain knowledge to successfully package and maintain packages in Debian. What makes more sense to me, is organizing packages into teams based on programming languages and build/test systems, as such teams indeed possess specific knowledge. I think most of the mails asking for help in debian-med concern language and build system problems, not domain-specific issues. Thus I am very comfortable keeping my math packages in per-language teams knowing that these teams will take good care of them if needed. I am worried reading about R packages being moved from debian-r to new debian-math. I am afraid doing so might negatively impact their quality. Best, Andrius
Re: Debian Math Team
On Sat, 30 Oct, 2021, 12:27 pm Ben Tris, wrote: > Just want to notice > > Debian Science > https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/mathematics > https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/mathematics-dev > Debian edu > https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/mathematics > > Debian packages has a mathematics category > https://www.gezapig.nl/Software/Special/Debian_Categories.html > Made a mathematics category based on debian category and some maintainer > groups. > https://www.gezapig.nl/Software/Category/Mathematics2021.html Thanks a lot for this! This would help us to decide on the packages to move/take-over into math team. Nilesh
Re: Debian Math Team
Just want to notice Debian Science https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/mathematics https://blends.debian.org/science/tasks/mathematics-dev Debian edu https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/mathematics Debian packages has a mathematics category https://www.gezapig.nl/Software/Special/Debian_Categories.html Made a mathematics category based on debian category and some maintainer groups. https://www.gezapig.nl/Software/Category/Mathematics2021.html > Op 29-10-2021 19:31 schreef Torrance, Douglas : > > > During the Debian Science BoF at this year's DebConf, there was some > discussion of creating a team devoted to packaging mathematical software. > > This seemed like a pretty good idea, so I figured that I'd go ahead and > start working on getting it set up. I've already created a Salsa group [1] > and a team on the Debian Package Tracker [2]. If you're interested in > joining, then you should be able to sign up at these links. > > I figured next would be applying for a mailing list, putting together a team > policy, etc. Any thoughts? > > Doug > > [1] https://salsa.debian.org/math-team > [2] https://tracker.debian.org/teams/math/
