On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 06:28:04PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote:
> > How is information destroyed by being replicated many times?
>
> will trillich writes:
> > it's not. the RESOURCE will dry up.
>
> > if everybody takes and nobody gives.
>
> > imagine the debian team -- their time spent,
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 03:01:09PM -0500, Brian Nelson wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:10:50AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > I'll dispute (mildly) the "it's by design" and "we like it that way". I
> > think part of the issue with GNU/Linux / Unix is that it sort of
> > happened that way --
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 10:48:57PM -0400, - wrote:
> >I don't know your parents well enough to comment on the
> >bastard part, but if you want to take without giving, that
> >pretty much is the textbook definition of selfish.
>
> What does this wise ass expect someone who knows very little
> about
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 04:51:32PM -0400, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> The mouse is a big deal with any editor. Emacs and Xemacs fail utterly
> to take full
> advantage of the mouse, or even of the pc101 keyboard. They don't even
> use the delete key in a sane manner.
I agree - although from a pu
> I can be fairly subjective...
Ehem. I mean objective. Sorry bout that.
-Nelson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
STFU.
http://qa.debian.org/man-pages.html
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Andre Berger wrote:
>* Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2001-04-13 02:06 +0200:
>[snipped that ... story]
>
>Why don't you spend your time to RTFM instead.
>
>-Andre
>
>
>
- --
Galt
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:10:50AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 12:21:43PM -0400, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
>
> > First of all, installing and using any linux distro, especially debian,
> > is nothing like installing and using windows. It doesn't matter
> "Kevin" == Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> As to your assertion that "Linux is chasing away the very
>> people it needs" - that's a fallacy.
Kevin> I don't think it is. How many copies of Redhat, Suse and
Kevin> the others were sold in the last two years? How
on Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 12:21:43PM -0400, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> First of all, installing and using any linux distro, especially debian,
> is nothing like installing and using windows. It doesn't matter how
> much of an expert you are in windows. It won't carry over into debi
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 08:17:18PM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
|
| Gosh, you guys are so serious! I was just having a bit of fun with that
| part. The whole thing is tongue-in-cheek, although like all humour, it has
| to have a grain of truth or some kind of point to make in order to work.
|
|
ject: Re: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
When you do come back, you have to realize a few things.
First of all, installing and using any linux distro, especially debian,
is nothing like installing and using windows. It doesn't matter how
much of an expert you are in wind
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:24:59PM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
[ snip ]
> However, at 3am, the local police bash down my uncle's door, and drag me
> out of bed. They charge me with violating a local ordinance. I have made
> a suggestion to widen the mall entrance without showing up with a
> wh
%% "'Dave Sherohman'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
ds> I removed telnetd-ssl when I discovered this because I couldn't
ds> find a way to turn the fallback behaviour off.
Probably someone already said this (I can't figure out why _some_ of my
email is taking 3 days to reach me :-/), but you mus
realize that) isn't going to get you
anywhere. The reason we all use debian is because it's *not* like
windows.
How come no one explains this stuff to newbies before they try a linux
distro?
-Nelson
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Stokes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Kevin Stokes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Or perhaps it is because I have a suggestion, that makes me a selfish
>bastard? I'm hardly suggesting newbie doc because I expect somebody to
>write it and give to me.
No, it's because it's such an undirected complaint that its only valid
use is as a
hey guys.
I just wanted to say that as a relative newbie to linux (about 2
months), everything which kevin said struck a chord in me.
In my opinion, he stated his take on the situation, tried to address the
problem without insulting anyone. I really don't see how someone could
complain about a s
>Nice. So, what - you're a martyr now? Give us a break. <
No, I'm not a martyr. I was just trying to be funny.I shouldn't have
put that part in, since it didn't add to the analogy.
I'm sorry I started the whole thing. I'm going to unsubscribe from the list
and leave my Linux box idle for a
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 10:48:57PM -0400, - wrote:
> >I don't know your parents well enough to comment on the bastard part,
> but
> if you want to take without giving, that pretty much is the textbook
> definition of selfish.<
>
> What does this wise ass expect someone who knows very little about
>I don't know your parents well enough to comment on the bastard part,
but
if you want to take without giving, that pretty much is the textbook
definition of selfish.<
What does this wise ass expect someone who knows very little about Linux
to contribute to the Linux community? Isn't describing t
* Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2001-04-13 02:06 +0200:
[snipped that ... story]
Why don't you spend your time to RTFM instead.
-Andre
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Kevin Stokes wrote:
>
> >Because you expect other people to implement your suggestion while you do
> nothing.<
>Some people get my point, and others don't. I don't expect anything.
> Let me try another analogy, since my first one was lousy;
This one is worse. Way worse.
>Your latest analogy is worse than the first... espeically the part
about people bashing down the door, dragging you out of bed and
kicking your proverbial ass.<
Gosh, you guys are so serious! I was just having a bit of fun with that
part. The whole thing is tongue-in-cheek, although like all h
* Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [12Apr01 19:24 -0400]:
>Some people get my point, and others don't. I don't expect anything.
> Let me try another analogy, since my first one was lousy;
>
Your latest analogy is worse than the first... espeically the part
about people bashing down the door
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:24:59PM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
|
| >Because you expect other people to implement your suggestion while you do
| nothing.<
|Some people get my point, and others don't. I don't expect anything.
| Let me try another analogy, since my first one was lousy;
In you
>Because you expect other people to implement your suggestion while you do
nothing.<
Some people get my point, and others don't. I don't expect anything.
Let me try another analogy, since my first one was lousy;
Say I'm visiting my uncle in Lynchburg, Tenn. We go to the mall to buy a
shi
I wrote:
> How is information destroyed by being replicated many times?
will trillich writes:
> it's not. the RESOURCE will dry up.
> if everybody takes and nobody gives.
> imagine the debian team -- their time spent, unappreciated, unrewarded,
> unrecognized. they'd go elsewhere (or at least un
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 03:59:23PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Jaldhar H. Vyas writes:
> > Or a more apt analogy: Linux is like a village common.
>
> No. A common is a scarce resource. Software isn't.
i don't think jaldha was talking about the software, but rather the
environment behind the lin
Jaldhar H. Vyas writes:
> Or a more apt analogy: Linux is like a village common.
No. A common is a scarce resource. Software isn't.
> If too many people take from a public resource without giving back, it
> swiftly gets destroyed.
How is information destroyed by being replicated many times?
--
* David Raleigh Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2001-04-12 21:26 +0200:
>Joris Lambrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To really start a fire here ...
> 1. In many new packages, maybe most, the developers just press on and
> don't pay attention to stable and unstable until they attain a version
> 1.x
On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Kevin Stokes wrote:
>
> There are people who care deeply about Linux and Free Software. I am not
> one of them. I wish Linux the best, but I'm not ready to invest hours of my
> time writing doc.
>
Would it really takes hours to write "In order to do this, I did this,
this,
Paul D. Smith writes:
> They are the standard tools for creating users on most SysV-like flavors
> of UNIX, such as Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, etc.
> While Debian may have some better, more unified way, I'll stick with the
> portable ones,...
Debian's adduser/addgroups program is written in Perl, calls
"Noah L. Meyerhans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:22:42AM -0400, Paul D. Smith wrote:
>> On my local network I have installed and run telnet-ssl and telnetd-ssl.
>> This is "normal" telnet authentication, but your password, etc. is sent
>> encrypted instead of in the clear.
"Kevin Stokes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>and kevin, when the light goes on, and all the fog clears,
>imagine how much hair-pulling you'll save the next poor soul if
>you document what you learned... hmm?<
>
>Ahh, but I'm not a Linux or Free-Software devotee.I would guess that the
>Linux comm
"Kevin Stokes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>GNU/Linux is a grown-up's operating system. You're expected to know
>your way around, or be able to figure it out.<
>
> I'm sorry, but the 'You're dumb or lazy or both' argument will not fly.
>There is an easily-correctable problem with Linux, and I hop
%% Ethan Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
eb> On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:39:55AM -0400, Paul D. Smith wrote:
>> # groupadd kevin
>> # useradd -g kevin -m kevin
>> # passwd kevin
eb> um you only have to do it that way if you use roothat.
Um, Red Hat did not invent these. They are th
john> Just so you know, XEmacs is perfectly capable of running on the
john> console (the 'X' in the name has nothing to do with X Windows), and,
john> in fact, it has some console mode features that the current version of
john> Emacs does not (frex, syntax coloring)[1]
Just one note. Emacs21 does
David Raleigh Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It makes *every* program that works with a gui *much* less good and
> some really insane, like emacs. (and xemacs, presumably because X
> is pathetic that way too.)
Just so you know, XEmacs is perfectly capable of running on the
console (the 'X'
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:46:05PM -0400, Glenn Becker wrote:
> I have followed this discussion with great interest. It's been really
> lively! :-)
>
> I hardly consider myself to have achieved 'power user' status. I started
> with Slackware Linux in late 1998. At this time I never touch Windows a
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 07:23:06AM +0800, csj wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 April 2001 16:06, Ethan Benson wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 10:52:54PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > > now MacOS X, which is housetrained Unix, [...]
> >
> > thats not what i would call it. i would call it a neutered
On Wednesday 11 April 2001 16:06, Ethan Benson wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 10:52:54PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > now MacOS X, which is housetrained Unix, [...]
>
> thats not what i would call it. i would call it a neutered Unix
> thats been run over by a truck.
Strong words. What mak
on Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:46:05PM -0400, Glenn Becker ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
>
> I have followed this discussion with great interest. It's been really
> lively! :-)
Yathink?
> But the soul of the experience (if I can use that crappy tattered
> word) is experiment: of trying things out and
Kevin Stokes writes:
> There are people who care deeply about Linux and Free Software. I am not
> one of them.
Then why should those people care about you?
> I wish Linux the best, but I'm not ready to invest hours of my time
> writing doc.
Then invest your money. There are plenty of consultan
Hello Glenn and All,
I just wanted to say "Ditto, couldn't have said it better myself." I don't
touch Windows at all anymore myself. It'd be way to boring for me now. I
don't know what I'd do without all the exciting, fun,(and to me, important)
concepts that I have learned by using Linux. I was
I have followed this discussion with great interest. It's been really
lively! :-)
I hardly consider myself to have achieved 'power user' status. I started
with Slackware Linux in late 1998. At this time I never touch Windows and
do not miss it.
My initial reaction to what was -- I do not argue -
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:00:24PM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> >> imagine how much hair-pulling you'll save the next poor soul if
> > you document what you learned... hmm?<
> >
> > Ahh, but I'm not a Linux or Free-Software devotee.
>
> This is where you lose the sympathy of a lot of people. You'
D-Man <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Would anyone like to provide a comparison of LaTeX and Docbook?
> (without a flamewar of course).
LaTeX:
* Been around longer
* Stable, ie changes little over the years
* Extremely easy to set up (significantly because of above)
* Well documented if you lik
>> imagine how much hair-pulling you'll save the next poor soul if
> you document what you learned... hmm?<
>
> Ahh, but I'm not a Linux or Free-Software devotee.
This is where you lose the sympathy of a lot of people. You've identified
a problem and you want other people to spend their time and
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 04:18:08PM -0400, D-Man wrote:
| On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:59:02PM -0500, will trillich wrote:
|
| | wanna write up a vim intro at sourceForge.net/projects/newbiedoc/?
|
| Can I write it in LaTeX? I want to learn to use latex effectively.
I just took a quick look, and I
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:59:02PM -0500, will trillich wrote:
| On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:07:02PM -0400, D-Man wrote:
| > I think that an introduction that is easy for inexperienced people to
| > start with would be a good thing. It should include references to
| > more detailed/advanced documen
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 07:44:52AM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> >PS - People take all their accumulated windows knowledge for
> granted. Years and years and years of it, and then expect that
> they can learn a new OS over night. Simply rediculous.<
>
> The truth is that I have *never* purchase
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 11:36:25AM -0400, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> > and have spent far to much time on postings about this anyway. I
> > realize that my words aren't going to turn the lights on by themselves. But
> > perhaps over time as more newbies v
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 07:44:52AM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> >PS - People take all their accumulated windows knowledge for
> granted. Years and years and years of it, and then expect that
> they can learn a new OS over night. Simply rediculous.<
>
> The truth is that I have *never* purchase
> >PS - People take all their accumulated windows knowledge for
> granted. Years and years and years of it, and then expect that
> they can learn a new OS over night. Simply rediculous.<
This is absolutly true.. I personally have found a lot of computer newbies
really lost with their brand new w
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 10:02:34AM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> I thank you and the others who have helped me, for friendly well-written
> explanations. I have saved these messages in my Linux-help mail folder,
> but I pity the next poor guy who just wants to login remotely to his newly
> install
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:07:02PM -0400, D-Man wrote:
> I think that an introduction that is easy for inexperienced people to
> start with would be a good thing. It should include references to
> more detailed/advanced documentation and also mention the common
> pitfalls or things to look out for
On Tuesday 10 April 2001 20:37, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> Now I can explain the title of my post.
Don't need to. My trucks AC system caused a fire, hot fire, big scary fire!
I was only a few hundred meters from the pacific ocean, it was just down that
cliff! All that water . . . :)
> Why th
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:27:04PM +0200, Joris Lambrecht wrote:
| I personally think that this has to do with Debian more then with Linux
| itself. Other linuxdistro's like RedHat, Mandrake, Corel are focusing on the
| usability. Debian is more like a sysadmin tool. Maybe it simply lacks an
| intr
* Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2001-04-11 18:15 +0200:
[...]
> I am one of them. I resurrected an older machine and plopped a cheap HD
> from Ebay in it. I wanted to install Linux on it and then apache, and try
> running a little web server with my cable modem. I did not want to become
> "Kevin" == Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Once again I find myself helpless. As unreliable and as
> frustrating as Windows is, in Linux it seems like you can't
> do anything without asking for help.
> I wanted to remotely login from a Windows machine to my
> The concept that seems to be eluding you is that YOU are as much a
part of
> the group as Linus Torvalds himself. There is no coordinator or
central
> body who says we're going to spend x amount of time on this or that.
> People who are involved in Linux do so either because it amuses them
or to
On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> >and kevin, when the light goes on, and all the fog clears,
> imagine how much hair-pulling you'll save the next poor soul if
> you document what you learned... hmm?<
>
> Ahh, but I'm not a Linux or Free-Software devotee.
This is where you lose the sympa
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:41:09AM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
> I don't think it is. How many copies of Redhat, Suse and the others were
> sold in the last two years? How many copies of Debian were downloaded by
> newbies in the last two years? Total those up and call it N.
>
> Of those N
>and kevin, when the light goes on, and all the fog clears,
imagine how much hair-pulling you'll save the next poor soul if
you document what you learned... hmm?<
Ahh, but I'm not a Linux or Free-Software devotee.I would guess that the
Linux community doesn't just write software and doc for th
ks> http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/LG/issue61/dellomodarme.html
>In short, this HOWTO does not really apply well to
Debian, or even most other Linux distros. <
Yeah, I got it from a website call 'Linuxdoc', so I thought it was
supposed to apply to me. I did a search for 'ssh login remote',
t: Re: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 07:04:14AM -0400, Noah L. Meyerhans wrote:
> Are there any decent SSL telnet clients for non Unix platforms?
None that I'm aware of, but telnet-ssl and telnetd-ssl fall back to
plaintext
if the other end do
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 07:04:14AM -0400, Noah L. Meyerhans wrote:
> Are there any decent SSL telnet clients for non Unix platforms?
None that I'm aware of, but telnet-ssl and telnetd-ssl fall back to plaintext
if the other end doesn't support encryption. If you've gotta have your
telnet, this ma
sdag 11 april 2001 15:25
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
>GNU/Linux is a grown-up's operating system. You're expected to know
your way around, or be able to figure it out.<
I'm sorry, but the 'You're
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 09:25:16AM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
>
> There is nothing I have seen in Linux which is any more difficult than
> other operating systems I have used. The difference is that most of the
> doc is oriented towards the person who already knows everything. It is
> just s
%% "Noah L. Meyerhans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
nlm> On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:22:42AM -0400, Paul D. Smith wrote:
>> On my local network I have installed and run telnet-ssl and
>> telnetd-ssl. This is "normal" telnet authentication, but your
>> password, etc. is sent encrypted inste
>GNU/Linux is a grown-up's operating system. You're expected to know
your way around, or be able to figure it out.<
I'm sorry, but the 'You're dumb or lazy or both' argument will not fly.
There is an easily-correctable problem with Linux, and I hope the good
people who devote so much time to Li
it. So
they are happy with the way it works now, as a server in enterprises or in
embedded systems and so on.
Greets,
Joris
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: woensdag 11 april 2001 14:41
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: water, water every
>However, please don't abuse the community
by going into hysterics because Linux isn't dead easy.<
There was no abusing of the community in the posting I made.I tried to
make it clear that I am anti-windows, and I am sort-of pro-Linux.
>As to your assertion that "Linux is chasing away the v
>PS - People take all their accumulated windows knowledge for
granted. Years and years and years of it, and then expect that
they can learn a new OS over night. Simply rediculous.<
The truth is that I have *never* purchased or read a book on using the
Windows operating system. I've never had
ational keyboards wich couldn't be resolved, at
least not by me.
regards,
joris
-Original Message-
From: Noah L. Meyerhans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: woensdag 11 april 2001 13:04
To: Debian User List
Subject: Re: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
On Wed, Apr 1
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:22:42AM -0400, Paul D. Smith wrote:
> On my local network I have installed and run telnet-ssl and telnetd-ssl.
> This is "normal" telnet authentication, but your password, etc. is sent
> encrypted instead of in the clear. That's enough paranoia for me, since
> I have a v
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:39:55AM -0400, Paul D. Smith wrote:
>
> Be root:
>
> # groupadd kevin
> # useradd -g kevin -m kevin
> # passwd kevin
>
um you only have to do it that way if you use roothat. debian has a
very nice utility that does all 3 of those steps in one simple
command:
okay, paul, i'm officially recruiting you, hammer-and-tongs, as a
newbiedoc contributor. your prose is wonderful and echoes frmo
hill and dale with a sparkling clarity that... oh, hell, you can
write, man! delightful!
and kevin, when the light goes on, and all the fog clears,
imagine how much hair
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 10:52:54PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> now MacOS X, which is housetrained Unix, [...]
thats not what i would call it. i would call it a neutered Unix thats
been run over by a truck.
--
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/
pgpI4OsWuRLgS.pgp
Description: P
%% Kevin Stokes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
ks> I wanted to remotely login from a Windows machine to my linux
ks> machine. So I wanted to install telnetd. Everyone said, 'shame
ks> on you, telnet is simply awful. You should be chained to the wall
ks> and whipped for wanting to use telne
First tip: when posting regarding a problem, start a new thread, don't
reply to an existing one. In threaded mailreaders (I use mutt) your
posts shows up well into an existing but unrelated thread. Though at
least you're attached to a related SSH problem here
on Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 11:37:3
%% Known Human Nick Rusnov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
khnr> As for running telnet, telnet is fine as long as you know your
khnr> network is private and secure (eg a private subnet lan of which
khnr> you are the only user) .. otherwise your passwords are exposed
khnr> in cleartext to anyon
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 11:37:32PM -0400, Kevin Stokes wrote:
>Once again I find myself helpless. As unreliable and as frustrating as
> Windows is, in Linux it seems like you can't do anything without asking for
> help.
>
> I wanted to remotely login from a Windows machine to my linux mach
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>it was written:
> Anyway... Does anybody know what steps I need to do in order make ssh
>work so I can log in remotely? I wanted to try to use Tera Term Pro with
>the SSH extenstion to log onto my Linux machine from a Windows machine on
>the local network.
>
>Righ
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