Re: Debian glossary?

David Wright writes: > I can't understand why Debian would involve itself in writing > tutorials for commands like mount, ls, and so on, or glossaries > of terms like strictatime and device file. > > All this is standard linux/unix information, well catered for by >

Re: Debian mirror problem? was [Re: Debian glossary?]

On 05/03/2018 12:28 PM, Brian wrote: On Thu 03 May 2018 at 09:27:52 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: [snip] My interpretation is that on my original visit I saw a defective mirror. If a similar symptom appears in the future, is there any way to determine which mirror I'm seeing? I use Firefox.

Re: Debian mirror problem? was [Re: Debian glossary?]

On 05/03/2018 01:17 PM, David Wright wrote: On Thu 03 May 2018 at 09:27:52 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: On 04/30/2018 07:28 PM, David Wright wrote: [*SNIP*] I only saw a misunderstanding of how man pages impart information. [*SNIP*] On 04/30/2018 09:27 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: The

Re: Debian mirror problem? was [Re: Debian glossary?]

On Thu 03 May 2018 at 09:27:52 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 07:28 PM, David Wright wrote: > >[*SNIP*] > >I only saw a misunderstanding of how man pages impart information. > >[*SNIP*] > > On 04/30/2018 09:27 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > >The relevant line of the HTML of >

Re: Debian mirror problem? was [Re: Debian glossary?]

On Thu 03 May 2018 at 09:27:52 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 07:28 PM, David Wright wrote: > > [*SNIP*] > > I only saw a misunderstanding of how man pages impart information. > > [*SNIP*] > > On 04/30/2018 09:27 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > > The relevant line of the HTML of > >

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 10:02 AM, David Wright wrote: On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 06:46:01 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: [snip] Comments? Sure. You turn to page 108 of Running Linux 5th ed and read it there. Don't have it? Download it. Type running-linux-5th-2006.pdf into google and it's the first hit.

Debian mirror problem? was [Re: Debian glossary?]

On 04/30/2018 07:28 PM, David Wright wrote: [*SNIP*] I only saw a misunderstanding of how man pages impart information. [*SNIP*] On 04/30/2018 09:27 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: The relevant line of the HTML of https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/coreutils/ls.1.en.html is GNU coreutils online

Re: Debian glossary?

Hello, On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:46:01AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > Man pages by their nature/purpose assume a certain level of expertise. > They can be daunting for the uninitiated. > > Comments? https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html : The only "intuitive" interface is the

Re: Debian glossary?

Brian wrote: ... > Is there an advantage in using noauto *and* nofail? i leave nofail there as a reminder that i don't consider that partition important enough to be a fatal error even if i temporarily remove or change the noauto. having been bitten once i tend to be more cautious on

Re: Debian glossary?

On Tue 01 May 2018 at 07:28:43 -0400, songbird wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > ... > > Let me clarify that, to a right Pain In The Ass when trying to write an > > armhf or arm64 systen to its boot u-sd card. They grab the card the > > instant its plugged in and then dd has a hell of a time

Re: Debian glossary?

Gene Heskett wrote: ... > Let me clarify that, to a right Pain In The Ass when trying to write an > armhf or arm64 systen to its boot u-sd card. They grab the card the > instant its plugged in and then dd has a hell of a time trying to write > to a mounted device. noauto is a frequently used

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 15:15:41 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 11:58 AM, Brian wrote: > >On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 09:27:02 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > >[snip] > >> > >>You have identified a documentation bug! > > > >No, I haven't. You may think *you* have, but you haven't. > > >

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 11:58 AM, Brian wrote: On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 09:27:02 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: [snip] You have identified a documentation bug! No, I haven't. You may think *you* have, but you haven't. The relevant line of the HTML of

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday 30 April 2018 12:03:31 David Wright wrote: > On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:44:58 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 30 April 2018 09:24:12 Richard Owlett wrote: > > > Sometimes automount and cousins are convenient. Other times > > > %@%$^$!*() ;/ > > > > Let me clarify that, to a

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 12:12 PM, Brian wrote: On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:01:13 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: On 04/30/2018 08:38 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, April 30, 2018 09:06:09 AM Richard Owlett wrote: [snip] A partial solution might include "Summer of Documentation" projects along side

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 13:23:38 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:19:11PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:34:23 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > info coreutils came up with 18696. > > > > Isn't 18696 the byte count? > > No. > > wooledg:~$ info coreutils

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:19:11PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:34:23 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > info coreutils came up with 18696. > > Isn't 18696 the byte count? No. wooledg:~$ info coreutils | wc 18696 111230 863180

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:34:23 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 11:16:46 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > > On Monday 30 April 2018 10:44:56 Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > wooledg:~$ man ls | wc > > > > 233

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:01:13 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 08:38 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Monday, April 30, 2018 09:06:09 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > > [snip] > > > A partial solution might include "Summer of Documentation" projects > > > along side of "Summer of

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 09:27:02 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 08:20 AM, Brian wrote: > > On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 06:46:01 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > > > > > Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. > > > > Strong words. > > BUT true! No they are not. Valid, perhaps. >

Re: Debian glossary?

Richard Owlett writes: > Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. > > This morning's partial set of items I do not grok include: > > > Partial output of "mount -l" is > "/dev/sdc1 on /media/richard/rco1 type ext4 >

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 12:07:51PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > Well, I wouldn't say it's untrue--it is sometimes (and maybe often) true--I > don't have an example at hand, but back in the days when I did look at an > info > page after viewing a man page, I often found the exact same

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday, April 30, 2018 10:44:56 AM Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:37:22AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > as those files appear to be made by just copying the man > > page into the info format. > > That's untrue. Compare a GNU info page to the same tool's GNU man page > and

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 10:44:58 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 30 April 2018 09:24:12 Richard Owlett wrote: > > Sometimes automount and cousins are convenient. Other times %@%$^$!*() > > ;/ > > > Let me clarify that, to a right Pain In The Ass when trying to write an > armhf or arm64

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 11:16:46 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 30 April 2018 10:44:56 Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > wooledg:~$ man ls | wc > > > 233 9117823 > > > wooledg:~$ info coreutils ls | wc > > > 835

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 30 April 2018 10:44:56 Greg Wooledge wrote: > > wooledg:~$ man ls | wc > > 233 9117823 > > wooledg:~$ info coreutils ls | wc > > 8354551 34791 > > > > In this example, the info page is about 4 times as

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 06:46:01 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. > > I've been trying to debug my usage of debootstrap. > Therefore been reading many man pages - often with incomplete comprehension. > E.G. In reply to one of my questions a gentleman

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 08:38 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, April 30, 2018 09:06:09 AM Richard Owlett wrote: [snip] A partial solution might include "Summer of Documentation" projects along side of "Summer of Code". Yes, or encouraging people to contribute to HowTos, wikis, the Linux

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday 30 April 2018 10:44:56 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:37:22AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > The recommendation to get the full story via info/pinfo is a > > running joke > > This is specific to the GNU project. They're pushing their "info" > reader and their

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday 30 April 2018 09:24:12 Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 07:27 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > Oh, and PS: it is not very clear to me in what you wrote what you > > are having trouble understanding -- if you are seeking answers, > > maybe you should ask more clearly. > > > > From

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:37:22AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > The recommendation to get the full story via info/pinfo is a > running joke This is specific to the GNU project. They're pushing their "info" reader and their "texinfo" documentation format for their own political reasons. (To be

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday 30 April 2018 09:06:09 Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/30/2018 07:23 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Monday, April 30, 2018 07:46:01 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > >> Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. > > > > ... > > > >> Man pages by their nature/purpose assume a certain

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 08:20 AM, Brian wrote: On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 06:46:01 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. Strong words. BUT true! [...] Output of "ls -Rdl /media/richard/rco1" is "drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Apr 28 23:49 /media/richard/rco1".

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday, April 30, 2018 09:06:09 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > PREACH it brother. I've made similar comments in the past. > The problem on this list is that newbies are often told > "*READ THE MANUAL!*" > as if it were a panacea. True, I guess I always (well, usually) tried to interpret

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 07:27 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, and PS: it is not very clear to me in what you wrote what you are having trouble understanding -- if you are seeking answers, maybe you should ask more clearly. From my peanut gallery observation of this thread, I think one of your problems

Re: Debian glossary?

On Mon 30 Apr 2018 at 06:46:01 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. Strong words. [...] > Output of "ls -Rdl /media/richard/rco1" is > "drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Apr 28 23:49 /media/richard/rco1". > > { In "drwxr-xr-x 3", what do "d" and "3" tell

Re: Debian glossary?

On 04/30/2018 07:23 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, April 30, 2018 07:46:01 AM Richard Owlett wrote: Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. ... Man pages by their nature/purpose assume a certain level of expertise. They can be daunting for the uninitiated. Comments?

Re: Debian glossary?

Oh, and PS: it is not very clear to me in what you wrote what you are having trouble understanding -- if you are seeking answers, maybe you should ask more clearly. From my peanut gallery observation of this thread, I think one of your problems is that the device you are tying to use (to

Re: Debian glossary?

On Monday, April 30, 2018 07:46:01 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > Debian documentation NOT written for hoi polloi. ... > Man pages by their nature/purpose assume a certain level of expertise. > They can be daunting for the uninitiated. > > Comments? True. Have you read one or more general